Jimenez or Cobra

[ldpantoja]

Ok, I am about to sound like snob but here we go.

A friend of mine is about to buy a gun. Times are kind of hard for some of us. He doesnt want to spend too much. He just called about half an hour ago saying that he found a Jimenez .380 and a Cobra? .380. I have seen the Jimenez brand b4 but I had never heard of Cobra.

He told me that they wanted 200 for the Cobra and 150 for the Jimenez. I know that these are both cheap guns but which of the two is better?

I have only experienced guns that I use to own I am no help to him.

My previous guns were:

Beretta S9000 .40
Beretta PX4 Storm .40 (I miss it)
Walther P22
Micro Desert Eagle .380 (Also miss it)
SA XDm-40 (Still own)

Can some of you guys please give me some advice??

[azredhawk44]

Neither.

If he wants a centerfire pistol under $200, he needs to look at Hi-Point.

They have .380, 9mm, .40 and .45acp models all under $200. Lifetime warranty (which he may end up needing... they are cheap) but at least it's better than Jimenez/Cobra/Jennings/Bryco or whatever they are now as they fold every few years and set up shop somewhere else.

If he must get a Jimenez-class gun, make it a .22. They tend to be the most resilient and can be salvaged if they turn out to be NIB lemons. For most, some kitchen table buffing will square away reliability problems.

The .380's are the ones most notorious for breaking since it's the biggest cartridge supported by that size gun.

[azredhawk44]

Another option is a surplus FEG PA-63 in 9mm Makarov.

This is 9x18... not the .380acp (a.k.a. 9mm kurtz a.k.a. 9x17 a.k.a. 9mm short) or the 9mm parabellum (a.k.a. 9x19 a.k.a. 9mm NATO a.k.a. 9mm luger).

I bought one for $125, and an additional magazine for another $10 or so.

[ldpantoja]

Thanks for the good advice. He never called again but I did SMS him your answers. I will see him tomorrow at work. Hopefully he never got the one that he was looking at.

He says that Im an idiot for getting 5 to 7 hundred dollar guns. To each their own I guess.


The way I look at it is that its better to bust your ass saving to buy what you want intead of just settling for the first cheap gun I find.

[Microgunner]

Both are complete junk not worthy of his family's trust. Steer him away from cheap autos and into an affordable used revolver.

[Quentin2]

He might want to look at a Taurus 9mm like the Millennium Pro. Small tough gun and the 9mm ammo over time will offset the cost of 380 ammo in a cheaper gun.

[jimbob86]

He might want to look at a Taurus 9mm like the Millennium Pro. Small tough gun and the 9mm ammo over time will offset the cost of 380 ammo in a cheaper gun.

IF he shoots it much. I did the math awhile back and figured out that I'd be better off in the long run (10 years) if I bought a $1,000 9mm than a a $300 .380, if I shot 100 rounds a mounth.

And with placement being EVERYTHING with the .380, you'd best practice, if that's what you're gonna carry.

[azredhawk44]

Guys, this is a jobless or semi-employed person looking for SOMETHING to use to protect his family.

It ain't a gun nut like us.

He's not gonna hit the range every weekend with it. It's probably gonna get a function check, then sit loaded in a sock drawer (or similar situation) for months at a time.

Ammo costs don't come into the picture. Amortization of training costs don't matter. Barrel/frame longevity don't matter.

Just gotta go bang when he needs it, and still allow him to spend money on groceries, rent/mortgage, and electricity.

Let's not justify our favorite pistols to this guy as a function of "X" years of ammo for practice.:rolleyes:

[w_houle]

I own both and think the Jimenez is the better of the two. I take it you mean CA380 vs. JA380.
The Jimenez ejects from the side, as opposed to the Cobra that throws them up and on to you.
The trigger is wider on the Jimenez. the Cobra trigger can become painful after running a box of ammo through it.
When the Cobra recoils back: The slide hits a pin and spring combination to slow the slide. The hole gets peened and catches the spring. The main recoil spring is around the barrel and is surrounded by a shroud. When that secondary recoil spring/ pin gets stuck by the peened hole, this shroud starts to take a beating (the reason I had to send in my first to the factory)

[Microgunner]

I own both and think the Jimenez is the better of the two
You own an Jimenez and a Cobra? Sorry to touch on what will have to be a sensitive nerve, but, what in the world would possess you to buy two of these junkers?

[bigghoss]

Jimenez or Cobra

that's like asking pinto or chevette

get a hi-point.

[w_houle]

Actually I have what I would consider to be quite the collection of these types of pistol from most of the lowest manufacturers. Doesn't bother me that people know I have them to see just how bad they can be...

[w_houle]

that's like asking pinto or chevette

get a hi-point...
Or an AMC Pacer
:rolleyes:

[Microgunner]

Actually I have what I would consider to be quite the collection of these types of pistol from most of the lowest manufacturers. Doesn't bother me that people know I have them to see just how bad they can be...


When you could be buying the best instead. Tsk tsk.

[Logjam]

I love my Makarov. Mine is still in 9MAK, but I understand that one can buy a .380 barrel. Does anyone know if that's true?

MAK's are wonderful little pistols. Mine is an East German model, which were the best.

Ammo used to be easy to find and very cheap, but I seldom find it today. I'll have to reload it I guess, which isn't that hard to do, if you can get the proper bullets.

My MAK has never jammed, not even once! It's just a darn fine pistol.

[Logjam]

For what my two bits are worth; if someone wants to buy one gun, the very best is a Ruger Single Six with the .22 mag barrel. The pistol loaded with .22's is a fine shooter, and when loaded with a .22 Mag it becomes a killer.

[w_houle]

Nah, there can be only one PBP around here, and he has one hell of a jump at it too... Besides if there's anything this place has; it's an abundance of those who know the all right to great guns. People as about the cheap guns: you know the kind, the cheap SD/HD talismans that sit on night stands collecting dust or finish wear and pocket lint from being carried that have low round count lives for people who most likely wont run over a box of ammo through it... if ever. I beat them up so others can have an idea as to what they can do instead of having to put up with reviews that are sometimes very questionable. Could I buy better? I have and I do, but someone has to do the dirty work.

[Microgunner]

Could I buy better? I have and I do, but someone has to do the dirty work.


And for this we are all eternally grateful.

[w_houle]

And for this we are all eternally grateful. :p
Just so long as nobody comes poking around asking about a Clerke...
Yeah, that thing has my seal of:barf:

[ldpantoja]

AZRED actually nailed it!!!!

[Shadi Khalil]

Like azred said, get a high point. Neither of those guns are worth the asking price.

[christcorp]

There are so many quality guns that can be found for the $200 mark, that buying a jimenez, cobra, etc... shouldn't even be an option. I will say a +10 thumbs up for a FEG PA-63 in 9mm Makarov; FEG AP-MBP in 32acp, Polish P64 in 9mm Makarov, and the best of them all; CZ-82 in 9mm makarov. And for what it's worth, there is plenty of 9mm makarov ammo available. Reloading isn't even really worth it. Not when you can order it and it costs $9.50 a box which includes shipping. It's not the caliber of ammo you will find at walmart, but there's this guy "Al Gore" and he invented the internet. You're using it right now to posts with. Go to sportsmansguide.com or a dozen other places and get all the makarov ammo you want.

But back on topic; there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for buying a Jimenez or Cobra. Don't rationalize it; you can't. Whatever price you think you're going to pay for it, you can get one of the guns I listed above. I buy mostly military/police guns. In the last 3 months I bought another FEG 32acp for $150 and a CZ-82 9mm makarov for $200. Some of the finest military guns available when it comes to quality and reliability. This is definitely one of those where you get SO MUCH MORE than your money's worth. A $150 jimenez or cobra; you're actually putting your life at risk. You can't even come close to "HOPING" it will go bang. Hi-point isn't too bad. I saw a Hi-Point yesterday for $100. The ONLY reason I didn't get it was because it was in 380acp. The ammo is just too difficult to find and too expensive. For how inexpensive 9mm makarov is; you will PAY THE ENTIRE $200 off that you spent on the gun, in as little as 10 boxes of ammo. (You'll save $15-$20 a box compared to 380)

[w_houle]

But back on topic; there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for buying a Jimenez or Cobra.
Broad brush much? Now is the entire company line or just certain models? Oh, and elaborate how you have drawn this conclusion... because I'm DYIN' to try out my hip waders.

[johnwilliamson062]

hipoint is much more reliable and rugged than either option he listed and cheaper.

I would bet my life on my hipoint. I would bet my paycheck on my hand being sore after I put a full clip through it rapid fire though.

[Steve1911]

I would look at the Hipoint if he is strapped and needs to keep a $200 limit. If he can go to around the $300-350, He would do well to check out the Kel tec line... They are not the greatest either... But would do much better than either the cobra or the jiminez... There is also the Makarov or the Bersa .380

But what he plans on using it for will make a difference... If he wants it for SD then def. go with KT, Bersa, Mak or HP...

If it is just for fun... either one would be fine.

[christcorp]

Broad brush much? Now is the entire company line or just certain models? Oh, and elaborate how you have drawn this conclusion... because I'm DYIN' to try out my hip waders.

There are a lot of IF's that when answered as TRUE, could justify buying a jimenez or cobra. But being NONE of them can be answered true; there is absolutely NO REASON in the world to justify buying either gun.

Price: NOPE; for the same price, there are at least a half dozen higher quality and more reliable guns.
Size: Nope; for the same size, there are at least a half dozen higher quality and more reliable guns.
Construction: Nope; for the same physical requirements, there's at least a half dozen higher quality and more reliable guns.

Sorry Houle; but it's not a broad brush. It just happens to be the truth. Actually, to debate this properly, the question would have to go back to you. I served, you need to return. Tell me (us) why a jimenez or cobra would be a better choice than another gun? And I'll save you some time in your research. You can't use price, construction, or size. I've already mentioned at least 3-4 pistols that have renown quality and reliability, and they are the same or better in price, construction, size, and reliability. I have shot plenty of Bryco/Jennings/Jimenez. I've shot enough of the cobras also. Matter of fact, a "NEW DEALER" in our town believed that traditional guns were too expensive for most people, so she decided to specialize only in the cobras and Jimenez. (along with used trade ins). Luckily she had other items in her shop to sell, because the only people buying the cobras (Especially the pretty Blue Ones) were the noobs and those who believed that all guns were the same. Of course, when they tried to bring the gun back to her after firing it and said they didn't want it, they were ****** because she wouldn't take it back. (Can't blame her for that). And of course no other dealer in town would even give 50% of it's cost towards a tradein. She just about stopped selling guns all together. I talked her into investing about $1000 in some military guns. CZ-82, Pa-63, tokarev, etc... She couldn't keep one of those guns in the cabinet more that 2-3 days. And now she's also getting some of the more savvy gun owners in who normally only went to a traditional gun shop. Hoping they can find something decent and different. And I also told her to stay away from ANYTHING with a 380 caliber. To expensive to shoot. (When you can find the ammo).

This is not difficult. And it doesn't even really need an explanation. The only possible reason I can even imagine someone who would buy a Jimenez or Cobra, is because they have an IMMEDIATE THREAT; they FEAR for their life; they HAVE TO get a gun today; and they are ignorant to purchasing online; and they only have $200; and there isn't any gun shows or similar in town. Then I guess a jimenez or cobra would be better that throwing rocks at your attacker. And of course, there will be those who say: "But I've own the Jimenez/Bryco/Jennings/etc....; and I've shot it without ever having a problem. Great; good for you. But that story is about equal to the person who says they have a SigSauer P220 or a S&W Model 13 revolver and it's a piece of junk. It's about as rare a story.

[Tucker 1371]

I would second the guys recommending Hi-Point over the Jimenez and Cobra.

There was another guy who mentioned the FEG PA63. No experience with them but I would imagine they're a little better quality than the pistols mentioned above.

Another option would be a Makarov in 9x18 Makarov (not 9x19), most are in the $350-600 range but a few can be found in the $200-300 range on Gunbroker.com.

I'm no expert, just my $.02

edit: Actually, now that I think about it, If your friend is willing to spend $200 today I would suggest waiting a little and getting a decent handgun. In my home town I can get an American Classic 1911 (comes from the same place as RIAs) for $342. Just something to consider.

[Skan21]

You could also get a cheap Tokarev in 7.62x25. Check out The Box 'O Truth for more on that particular round. They also make a CZ-52 in that caliber. And they are both under $200. The 7.62x25 has excellent penetration and is apparently a pretty sweet round. www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu59.htm

[.351winchester]

chevette
My first car, and still favorite after a Brougham and Buick Roadmaster, and die-hard S-10's

Big +1 to advice on the Eastern Euro surplus Military pistols over the SNS's or even oversized Hi Points. Another 1/3 over the limit of this man's budget brings him into the realm of NIB, real, quality stuff i.e. P95 and Sigma. But I understand even for a one time purchase, times are such that every penny counts. My vote would be the CZ-82, quality Czech mfg., Hi cap, and more than anything in this class, made for defensive shooting as far as controls, carry modes, etc. Defensive ammo out there from smaller firms such as Corbon, RBCD, Extreme Shock, I think Magsafe and/or Glaser. Pow'rball would be the round to get if it's made. Or surplus ball for penetration. The PA-63 is even cheaper and lighter and thinner for carry.
The TT-33 7.62x25 is another affordable piece and a seriously powerful pistola.

Now, if this is by chance a stay at home gun desired. I just saw a NIB Maverick 88 with 18.5" pipe for 150. plus tax. Most certainly the better pick if he's not taking his gun to town.

[raftman]

As always, I voice my agreement for those recommending the Eastern Bloc pistols chambered for 9mm Makarov. I've a P-64 and a CZ-82, bought them for prices about equaling Jimenez and Cobra pistols. These guns are very well-made, accurate, and completely reliable. In fact, the I've heard the CZ-82 referred to as the "$500 gun you can get for $200."

That's not just my opinion, that's pretty much the general consensus among the vast majority of people that have owned these guns. I've never found myself shooting one of them, and wishing "Gee, I wish I had a Jimenez instead." I am a "budget" shooter, I have never spent more than $200 on a gun, so I do understand trying to get a good gun for a low price. Are there guns out there, that I'd rather have than the P-64 or CZ-82, sure there are, but these are much more expensive.

[armoredman]

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/c/c-r-guns/p/romanian-ttc-tokarev-pistol-very-good-condition/cPath/290/products_id/1573

[Distortion]

I picked up my CZ-52 for $199. My CZ-82 cost me $245, but you can find them below $200 online. I'd recommend either of them. I also have a Hipoint 995 carbine, so I'd recommend Hi-Point next. I'd probably go with the C9 over the CF-380, since they're both the same size, and 9mm ammo is cheaper than 380 ammo.

[hdawson228]

Tell him to get a High Point 9mm. Mine functioned perfectly and pretty darn accurate.:cool:

[brickeyee]

Never had much of a thing for die cast zinc guns.

Find a used revolver in .357 mag.

[fast-eddie]

This is a great deal here, not too much more.


http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/smith-wesson-model-64-ny1-38spl%2C-4inch%2C-vapor-hone-finish%2C-good-to-very-good-condition/products_id/3591

[publius]

tell him to get onw of the old Com-bloc semi auto .380's or 9Mak's. Or he could look around for a taurus or rossi revolver that had been beat up.

[Mastiff]

I just buy mil-surp pistols or clones. I bought 2 Chinese 9mm Tokarevs for $89 each back in 1992. After 55,000 rounds through one of them with absolutely no FTF or FTE, in fact no problems whatsoever, I was sold on the concept. I bought a Star Super A for $145, and 4 more Toks priced between $179 and $219. I also picked up a CZ-82 for $200. All with 2 mags and holster. I just picked up a Sistema Colt Model 1927, a pre-war Colt made on Colt machinery, for $300. I can't imagine paying $150 or more for a Jiminez or a Cobra, knowing they are made out of pot metal and frequently self-destruct, when for similar or less $$ I can get an all steel military pistol good for thousands and thousands of rounds.
If the guy gets the Tokarevs now being sold in 7.62x25, he can get 1224 rounds for approximately $120. It is really hard to beat that deal.
If he ever gets more money, it is easy to convert these pistols to fire 9mm Luger. Just get an extra $35 barrel and a $15 barrel bushing. In effect two guns for not much more than the price of one, and much much more reliable than any Jimenez on the planet.

[w_houle]

That's a really nice story christcorp, and no... the ball isn't in my court; it's still on you, and oh BTW the plural of anecdote isn't data
You aren't going to believe anything anyway...

[bigghoss]

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/c/c-r-guns/p/romanian-ttc-tokarev-pistol-very-good-condition/cPath/290/products_id/1573

oh snap! a $200 tok cool. I don't know about that as a first handgun but it'd be better than a jimmy.

[christcorp]

houle; what a great retort. No; you're the one who obviously believes that Jimenez or Cobra (in this case); are weapons that have a legitimate reason for being bought. I'm simply asking you to tell me one good reason a person should buy a jimenez or cobra over ANY of the other guns mentioned in this thread; as well as many others not mentioned; that COST LESS, are BETTER quality, are more RELIABLE, and overall have a better track record??? I personally think it was a simple question. I said there were a lot of guns BETTER than jimenez and cobra, and that those two shouldn't even be an option while there are others available. You obviously disagree. I've said why the others are better. Please; pray tell; why is a jimenez or cobra better than anything else discussed here???

I will concede one possibility. For the person who is paranoid of Uncle Sam; won't mail order; won't buy from a gun dealer; looking to buy a gun with no paper work filled out; etc... I can understand why a person would go with that. I have a friend who bought an AMT Backup 380 years ago for that main reason. Because there was no paper work. The gun sucks, and he's had a lot of problems, but at least there's no paper work. Right??? Anyway; if you've got some reasons why you believe the jimenez or cobra is better than a CZ, Tokarev, Taurus, Rossi, FEG, or a number of other pistols that can be had for the $200 or less range; then definitely let me know. I am seriously curious.

[Skan21]

I think it's pretty hard to argue with the fact that most people on this site are at least fairly knowledgeable. And I don't think I read anyone that said, " Sure, Jennings, or Cobra's are a great investment!" That's fairly hard to argue with. I first experienced a Cobra about 3 years ago. I had never even heard of it before. My friend had one, and it didn't make a good first impression. Ugly, and badly made. When we first took it to the range, the RS wasn't even going to let him on the line, because he felt the Cobra's aren't safe. Finally the RS relented. We took it onto the line, and I shot 3 rounds out of it. I would have shot more, but it started to double feed, FTF and FTE. I gave it back to my friend, who had shot a full mag out of it, no problem, before handing it to me. I asked him what he paid for it, and I couldn't believe he paid as much for that as for a Hi-Point. I beat on Hi-Point, but they're really not that bad. I've always done my firearms shopping a few shelfs higher than the Cobra. And don't think I'm a snob either, 'cause for $400, or even $350, you can buy any number of used S&W revolvers, put a little work into them, and they shoot mint. Taurus too. It's difficult to justify paying money, and depending your life, on a pistol that may not go bang when you pull the trigger. That's silly. Want cheap, serious firepower? Go Com-Bloc.

[cracked91]

Owning both Cobra CA380 and hi point C9, and its a landslide of a comparison. The Hi point is not a great gun and I pretty much hate mine, the only reason I still have it is cause it only sells for about 50 bucks. But it works. You can cock the hammer and put a bullet in the chamber and it will go boom, and still be in one piece after. If you don't over oil it it will feed through a clip. The cobra is not the same thing. First 35 shots of mine bent the firing pin about 50 degrees and it would not cock again until I straightened it back out with pliers. Oh and the first 35 rounds I could maybe get 2 or 3 rounds off before it jammed. I though my hi point was cheap until I bought this POS.

But enough rant about my favorite safe queen, there are far better options for under $200 than either.... like a baseball bat;)

I'd go hi point over cobra but if I was really looking for an SD gun for under 200 I would be scouring local pawn shops and gun stores looking for a used revolver, probably taurus or rossi. You can get the single shot break action shotguns for under 150 and IMHO thats worlds better than a freakin cobra.

[christcorp]

I think that most everyone agrees that for plinking and having fun, the jimenez or cobra would be a cheap gun to buy. But not at $150-$200. Especially considering the higher quality guns that can be bought for that. And if the gun is going to be used for any type of self/personal defense; then the jimenez or cobra would totally be out of the question. But being the original poster was emphasizing price; that alone should steer a person away from those 2 guns. The problem here is ignorance. There's PLENTY of quality guns available in the price range the original poster quoted. The person buying the gun, simply doesn't KNOW there are quality guns available in that price range.

[neon]

My honest opinion I would not fool with either one
of those brands.

$200<

How about a new shotgun?

[khegglie]

OL HOULE GETS NUKED for having the tools available to make the requsted comparison. :(

[pabst_20]

i bought a jimenez 380 because...... well i really dont know why i did. I was checking out (buying a Kimber Tactical Pro) and saw it and hadn't owned a 380 and it was $125 so i bought it. HAHA it was a joke although i did shoot it 25 round before it messed up the grips would push out because of the poor design dont know anything about cobra but i would go with a hi-point before a jimenez my grandpa has a 9mm high point and it has never failed at all they are a pain to take apart and clean but its a better descion. or you could save your money for an extra couple months and buy a sig or something better.

[noelf2]

Mastiff

Ok, I'm putting you on the spot:

If he ever gets more money, it is easy to convert these pistols to fire 9mm Luger. Just get an extra $35 barrel and a $15 barrel bushing.

Where can I get the 9mm barrel for $35 and a bushing for it for $15??? You might be living in the past a little bit.......

[(BH)]

One word (well sort of 2): MILSURP!

Tokarev
CZ-52
FEG PA63
Makarov

[raftman]

Add CZ-82, CZ-70, and P-64 to that list as well.

[H3R0]

i have a red cobra .380 it hasn't given me a problem yet. but i would have to say go hi point c9 there durable and reliable and cheap. i own a brand new hi point 995 ts and i love it.



The only people that bash hi-points are people that don't own one.

[RsqVet]

Cheap gun... used infrequently... owned by someone only interested in defense, not shooting much.

If all of these things don't add up to a revolver than I sure as heck don't know what would.

As others have pointed out you can pick up a S+W 64 from J+G for 229. Some pawnshops will have other mods in this price range.

This is what someone with the above needs should consider... not any automatic at any price frankly.

Let's see here... shoot 50 or 100 or 200 rounds of your carry ammo to prove function. Anyone doing that with some of the junk autos we are talking about here? Let alone does our hypothetical gun owner even want to put that time in? What about cleaning? oiling?

Yeah right; get a revolver, practice some hopefully -- clean it or not, oil it or not but it will go bang more than once after sitting untouched in a nightstand for 5 years. Some folks this is all they are going to do; IF they chose to keep a gun they are best served by a revolver.

[raftman]

To be fair, there are also junk revolvers out there too that can't and shouldn't be counted on for anything, even plinking.

[Salty1]

If he is looking for a "cheap" gun that is exactly what he will get. I have a Raven in 25 acp that looks wonderful, would never trust it in any type of self defense situation.... The only reason I still have it is that I would not sell it to anybody it is that bad. Maybe one day I will bring it to a gun buy back and get $75 to $100 for it and buy some ammo. In the situation mentioned my answer would be very simple, get a shotgun... just point and pull, very simple....

[Trashcan-man]

This may be a little bit off topic for this thread, but better than starting a new one. Everybody keeps saying that he should go with mil surp instead of these guns, which I agree with because those brands are terrible. Where do you guys get all of these mil surp guns? I've looked on gunbroker and their prices are higher than the ones that you mentioned. I am not lucky enough to have a good gunshop anywhere within an hours drive so that is out of the questions. Is there a website? Or are you all just lucky enough to live close to a major gunshop that carries these things.

[christcorp]

You can get them at gun shows. There are websites like J&G sales that sell them. You just need them shipped to an FFL licensed dealer to pick them up. But the average price for a P64 is $150; PA-63 is $180; CZ-82 is $180-$220; Tokarev is $199; AP-MBP is $175.

Obviously, the easiest place to buy one is at a gun show. You can see it, feel it, and buy it. Not sure if you ever go to gun shows. I go to about 5 a year. If you study the ones I mentioned above, and get to know them: calibers are 9mm makarov, 32acp, and 7.62x25; you will know what is good and what isn't. Then; when you get to the gun show or pawn shop and see one, you'll know what it is, the quality, and whether to buy it or not. Currently, J&G sales has the P64 which is a 9mm Makarov for $159.00. Just need to have it sent to your favorite FFL dealer. They also have a tokarev for $199. Personally, I believe the BEST of ALL of them is the CZ-82 9mm makarov. They are just rare to find. Even online. But the rest are definitely available. Gun shows have them all. And NONE of them should cost more than $225-$250. Of course, some might cost more if they're throwing in extra magazines, holsters, ammo, etc... That's a different situation then.

[Distortion]

I bought the ones I mentioned previously at local (http://www.americangunshows.com/) gunshows (http://www.gunshows-usa.com/).

[raftman]

Yeah, they're definitely not THAT hard to find. Bought my P-64 at a local shop. Got my CZ-82 at a gun show. And my Tokarev was ordered in for me from Century Arms by a local shop.

[varoadking]

Another option is a surplus FEG PA-63 in 9mm Makarov.

This is 9x18... not the .380acp (a.k.a. 9mm kurtz a.k.a. 9x17 a.k.a. 9mm short)...

KURZ, dood...KURZ. "KURTZ" was a Colonel in Apocalypse Now.

FWIW, I'm not much for the PA-63. Pretty much a POS AFAIC...

[w_houle]

if you've got some reasons why you believe the jimenez or cobra is better than a CZ, Tokarev, Taurus, Rossi, FEG, or a number of other pistols that can be had for the $200 or less range; then definitely let me know. I am seriously curious.
Well, actually...on part of that note: Cobra actually fits somewhere in the middle of that pack due to having the Republic Arms line of firearms. I'd still like to pick up a Cobra Patriot 45. Their DAO .38 seems to be on the expensive side, but looks nice. Cobra has Lorcin. I like my L380. Only problem I had was it not liking to eject without the magazine in place. They also have the Talon Industries line, which on it's face isn't so great until they made the slides out of steel, and yes the people posting pics of people that have eaten T-100 slides has me without a doubt that those slides weren't meant to be made out of zinc.
I've dealt with Cobra Arms Service only once on a firearms warranty claim, and they decided to send me a new one with a spare mag:). It only cost me to send it to them, and they sent my FFL one back on their dime (if it was an easier fix it would have come back to me). YMMV and you can take it for what it's worth.
Jimenez? Their lineup hasn't changed in so long that they've become stagnant. I don't think they should cost as much as they do, but wouldn't mind spending $80 for a new one. I think their warranty policy is totally on your dime. Don't know, haven't tried it.

[christcorp]

The PA-63 is an excellent gun. IMHO. I have it; plus it's twin the 32acp version AP-MBP. Excellent Walther PPK clones. Excellent accuracy. Excellent reliability. Parts easy to get if needed. Strip down and such is some of the easiest. And because it's not as small as the P64 (Which is also a nice gun); or even many of the mouse gun 380's; it's not that tough on the hands when shooting. And if you spend $14 a buy a new set of wolff springs for the recoil, hammer, and firing pin, it's a very decent double action also.

My priorities if they were all available and I had the money:

1. CZ-82 (What can I say, the damn thing walks on water. As does the caliber)
2. Any of the TRUE makarovs. However; they will definitely cost more.
3. PA-63 (Excellent gun. Described it above)
4. AP-MBP (Same exact gun as the PA-63 except in 32acp. All parts interchangeable except the magazine and barrel. Obviously, the slide would have to be changed or the end slightly bored for the new barrel. I wouldn't do any of that; just that ALL OTHER PARTS are interchangeable between the 32acp and 9mm makarov version.
5. P64 (Much smaller than the PA63. 1 less round in the magazine. But still a great gun.
6. Tokarev 7.62x25 (Except for the 357 magnum and the 41/44magnums; this gun can handle ammo that will put ALL OTHER CALIBERS commonly carried, into the dirt. It's not the easiest to conceal; but definitely no worse than a 1911A1 45acp. The ammo is THE CHEAPEST OF ALL AMMO. The bullet can go THROUGH car doors like it was paper. (Literally; this ain't no #*(%). )

[Kyo]

To the OP. if this guy says you are an idiot for spending 5-700 on a gun, laugh at him. Bet him a new gun that your can last longer than his at the range.
Yes, I agree this person isn't going to go to the range and isn't a "gun nut"(I don't even think I am :D ) but at the same time a gun that is used for SD/HD has the #1 priority of reliability. You can't guarantee that with certain brands.
Ask him that question. "Are you seriously going to go cheapy on family protection?"
I mean, I bought a brand new Mossberg Maverick 12 gauge for 250 out the door. If he's gonna be that cheap, get a used shot gun, its cheaper and more reliable, and more effective! If he's going to spend money on crap have him send his money to me I will use it for better purposes. And I am not trying to be a gun snob here, I own a freaking Ruger for gods sake. But I am trying to throw some reality your way. I told my uncle to stay away from the Jennings at the gun shows. He loved how cheap they were. I am glad he didn't get one to break it later on.
I also suggest a Makarov if he wants something good and beyond cheap but great in value.

[dukenukum]

I own the HI-Point in .45 auto this is my daily use gun with 10 thousand rounds out of it and no trouble EVER . Yes I carry it concealed or open.

[graysmoke]

I purchased a Cobra CA380 at this yard sale. Paid $100.00 for it. The chrome pistol was never fired, and still in its hardcase.
Test fired at the range. I will say -WAS VERY VERY PLEASED.
Tried both FMJ and JHP ammo...It never hick-up'ed. The pistol is heavy, but obsorbs recoil awesome.....I keep it as a back-up.

[Tom Servo]

After 2.5 years of no activity, we can safely call this one a zombie thread. If you have any new information on the subject, feel free to start a new one.