.204 ruger vs .220 swift

[butta9999]

Ok so i am looking at a new varmint setup. I have an old .222 remington 788, well it's my dad's and it's a pretty tired gun.

I have had plenty of experience with the swift but none with the .204 ruger.

The rifle will be a heavy barrel, i will glass bed the barrel, and get a little work done to the trigger. My max range will be 300 to 400yds at the most.

Any members own a .204 who can swing me towards the ruger.

I know the swift takes heavier bullets and will better in brezzy days. I try not to hunt if the wind is up too high anyway.

Is there much of a bullet selection for the .204 as i will be reloading.

Whats the barrel life on the .204, i know the .220 swift will get about 2000 rounds before any erosion. with moderate loads that is.

[precision_shooter]

While I don't have any experience with either, If I was going to choose a varmint caliber right now it would be the .204. From everything I have read it is Super Accurate, Super Fast, and explodes on impact. Everything you could want in a Varmint Cartridge.

Now, as for the rifle, It would have to be a Savage. No need to Glass Bed anything and No need to have ANY trigger work done. Already has free floated barrel and a Superb trigger. Depending on the model you can adjust it down to 6 ounces of pull.

Hope this helps, but if not, someone will come along that has experience with both to give you a better comparison between the two cartridges.

[Come and take it.]

.204 can shoot a bit flatter and buck the wind better.

.220 has superior power and reliability of bullet performance.

Light fast bullets are not as predictable as heavier bullets on animals.

[Doyle]

.204 can shoot a bit flatter and buck the wind better

Absolutely no way that lighter .204 bullet is going to shoot either flatter (at least over a reasonably long shooting distance) or buck the wind better.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Absolutely no way that lighter .204 bullet is going to shoot either flatter (at least over a reasonably long shooting distance) or buck the wind better.

Seriously? You should look up some ballistics data. Never mind, I'll save you the trouble:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47754&stc=1&d=1243866983



Yeah, that 204 ruger is terrible. It only has 50% more energy at 500 yards, it's only 2.5 inches HIGHER than the 220 at 300 yards and 18 inches higher at 500 yards. It could never compare to the mighty 220 swift.:rolleyes::barf:

If you want a varmint setup your only reasonable choices when considering ALL the variables, IMHO, are 22-250 and 204ruger.

[mikejonestkd]

Peetza,

Comparing an accutip .204 to a PSP .220 swift isn't quite a fair comparision, there is a huge difference between the BC of the two bullets. Still, your opinion is about the same as mine.

Any of the varmint cartridges will do just fine for the range that the OP is talking about. heck, the .222 would do just fine too.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yeah, I know but the previous responders comment was based on the 204 swift being "lighter", the chart above is from Remington.

The 40gr 204 has an advantage over most any of the heavier 220swift rounds.


Comparing the 40gr ballistics tips versions of both rounds puts them at almost identical numbers....


but it's also important to note that the 204 achieves the same velocities with nearly 50% less powder.

[farmall]

I'm an avid prairie dog blaster, and I own both in Savage rifles. I am, and will continue to be an avid proponent of the Swift. It is my all time favorite.

That said, I'm using my 204 to the exclusion of nearly all my varmint rifles, and the Swift dosent get nearly as many kills as it was getting just a few years ago.

If I could just take 1 rifle on a hunt, it'd be my .204.

Guess I'm lucky, I shoot both!!!!!

Andy

[Art Eatman]

Comparing a boat-tail with a flat-base for long distance ballistics ain't quite honest. And that factory 50-grain load for the Swift is rather mild. Many of us "Swifties" get right at 4,000 with bullets like the old Sierra 52-grain HPBT.

If you put 40s against each other for both cartridges, the .204 oughta do better, just because of the smaller frontal area. 19% less.

I know one guy in south Georgia who's been quite happy with his .204 on coyotes. IIRC, he said his best kill was somewhere around 250 yards. Night hunting.

I know the Swift does Really Bad Things to feral cats at 300 yards and prairie dogs at 400.

I guess that if I were starting from scratch and didn't already have varmint critters, I'd probably try the .204. Everything certainly looks good...

[BLS700]

I have a .204 and have been very impressed. I went back and forth so I feel your pain on the decision. I've used mine on coyotes and had good success. I've heard from people who I tend to believe that they've used theres on coyotes out to 300 yds with one shot stops. Accuracy wise my .204 just put up a .71 5 shot group. I haven't adjusted any seating depth yet either or fine tuned the load so I know I can improve that a good bit. Also, I like not losing the sight picture after I shoot.

[kraigwy]

Nothing wrong with the Swift, but in my opinion, the 204 is easier on barrels, cheaper to load, quieter, and less recoil.

I've shot a half dozen coyotes and several foxes with my Ruger and never had to shoot one twice. But the Swift is deadly on coyotes too.

The problem I had with my Ruger when I first got it is I over compensated for wind and elevation. (Too much 223 shooting I guess).

I wouldn't throw away my Swift, but if I had to choose between the two I'd go with the ruger.

Best case senario is to get one of each.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Comparing a boat-tail with a flat-base for long distance ballistics ain't quite honest. And that factory 50-grain load for the Swift is rather mild. Many of us "Swifties" get right at 4,000 with bullets like the old Sierra 52-grain HPBT.

Handloaders with the 204 get over 4300 with the 32gr and over 4000 with the 40, so those 204 factory numbers are also rather "mild" and the 204 does it with considerably less powder, less "BOOM!" (not a lot but a little) and longer barrel life.

Not to mention that my Ruger MKii with a harris bipod and a Mueller scope doesn't even TWITCH off target. The crosshairs don't move enough to jump off a woodchuck at 400 yards.

[Come and take it.]

Absolutely no way that lighter .204 bullet is going to shoot either flatter (at least over a reasonably long shooting distance) or buck the wind better.

.204 bullets have smaller cross section and higher B.C.

They buck the wind better against even heavier 22 caliber projectiles hands down until you get upwards into the AR15 match bullets. 68 and 75 grain respectively.

Still I have a .220 swift and will probably not get a .204 simply because the .220 will almost do everything the .204 external ballistics wise and at the same time have the edge, Kinetic energy wise and especially momentum wise ,versus the .204 when using 50 grain and above weight bullets.

[impalacustom]

I prefer the 204 over the 220 but I am a sub caliber odd ball.

If that Remington 788 was mine I would rebarrel it to a 17-222 and shoot 25gr bullets. A friend of mine has this and this weekend just killed 5 prarie dogs at 490yds and one at 510yds. No need to buy a new rifle when you have the brass and receiver to make something that will just require a barrel and then dies.

If you are looking to get rid of that 788, I'd be interested in it.

There are a ton of 20 caliber bullets, probably just as many as there are 22 caliber ones. You will need at least a 1/9 twist for the 55gr and bigger. So plan accordingly if your going with a custom barrel job.

[butta9999]

After reading everyones posts, i think i am gonna put the .204 on lay-by. I do like the .220 swift my best mate and my uncle own them. I have shot a lot of the swift over the years, but i think something new would be exciting.

Now Precision shooter you suggested the Savage rifle, what about the M77 Mark 2 Varmint/Target.

what twist is recommended for bullets of 32gr and 40gr.

[precision_shooter]

Now Precision shooter you suggested the Savage rifle, what about the M77 Mark 2 Varmint/Target.

what twist is recommended for bullets of 32gr and 40gr

I think the M77 is a fine gun, and if that is what you have your sights set on I don't think you will be disappointed. But, you may need to have trigger work done or bedding work done to get the accuracy and consistency you want. Let me add that I do not nor have I ever worked for Savage Arms. I have, however, owned and sold several different types and brands of rifles and I keep coming back to Savage any time i'm in the market for a new caliber to add to the lineup. My suggestion is for you to hold them, play with them, talk to them, and maybe even shoot them side by side to see which you like better and go from there.

As far as twist rate, 1 in 12" (which seems to be just about standard on most .204 rifles) should be just about perfect for the 32gr-40gr pills.

Hope this helped and let us know what rig you choose and post some pics when you can.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I'd suggest a Savage.
The trigger is truly remarkable for a modern factory rifle and there are companies that sell springs to reduce the pull even farther. I believe you can get around one pound changing nothing but the $1.95 spring.

[farmall]

I'd say to go with a Savage. If top accuracy is a concern, get a laminated stock, as the synthetics are a bit flimsy.
If you end up with a Swift, avoid the W-W brass like the plague...I know my loads are safe, but the primer pockets get loose after just 2-3 firings, necks split terribly, just overall crappy quality. R-P brass is much better, if you can find it.

Andy

[butta9999]

Thank you all for the advice and opinions on this thread. I am going to ask around next week and get some prices on the savage.

Is there a particular model in the savage? And does it come with a 26 inch heavy barrel?

Farmall- i totally agree with you about the .220 swift Winchester brass. Total crap. when i was doing some loading for my uncles swift 10 cases cracked after neck sizing. This was after first firing only.

I think since then he has gone for Norma Brass.

[precision_shooter]

Most of the Varmint rifles from savage sport 26" heavy barrels. The 12FV does for sure. I think the others do as well. Go to Savagearms.com and look at their line up. Or go to Buds Guns online and do a search by caliber and see what you can see. I like the laminated stocks myself, but to each his own.

[Brian Pfleuger]

If I was buying one today it would be this:

http://www.savagearms.com/12model_Varminterthumbhole.htm

http://www.savagearms.com/images/centerfire/varmint/12BTCSS_cmyk.jpg

[Thermodyne]

It's your rifle so do what you want. If it was mine, I would slug the bore and if it was good I'd re-crown it Then rechamber it for a 222mag round.

If I was going to go to the expense of a custom barrel and new bolt face I'd go with a 22-250 just so that I could load for what I was shooting.

And if I wanted a higher speed round, a 223 wssm would cost no more than a 204 conversion and give you 40gr. at 4600fps.

[Brian Pfleuger]

a 223 wssm would cost no more than a 204 conversion and give you 40gr. at 4600fps.

Except for the cost of twice as much powder (or more) and a new barrel every 500 rounds.

[six 4 sure]

I'm not sure what is or isn't available in Australia, but I'd look for a CZ-527 Varmint in 204. I prefer the set trigger and Mauser action over the Savage design.

[crghss]

If you reload I'd get the 220 Swift. If you don't I'd think about the 22-250.

I don't see the need for a .204 Ruger myself. But I love the .22 hornet and a lot of people don't see the need for it. So have fun which ever way you go. ;)

[impalacustom]

A 223WSSM will cost you a bolt face as well, where the 204 won't, because the 204 is a 222 magnum cartridge necked down to a 20.

[butta9999]

Think ill stick to the .204 ruger, just have to decide which rifle now. I do like the Mauser action. My .300 win mag has controlled feed it's a model 70 Winchester. Great for those quick follow up shots.

The CZ is a fine rifle too.


Once again thanks all, im off hunting this weekend so ill be chasing up prices when i return.

[butta9999]

The Savage looks quite good this is the one ill be chasing up if i go savage.

Model 12 Varminter Low Profile Left Hand– with AccuTrigger™......... Is this a good choice?

[Brian Pfleuger]

Is this a good choice?

IMHO, you can't go wrong as long as it's wood, which of course that one is. The wood looks even better in real life. People who say Savage makes an ugly rifle haven't seen their latest incarnations. They are really a beautiful gun, IMO.

[precision_shooter]

I completely agree with Peetzakilla....The model 12 you chose is an excellent rifle and the Accutrigger....just saying it makes me want to go get another Savage rifle.

[Doodlebugger45]

I intend to get a 204 one day soon. I'd been thinking about a 22-250 for quite awhile, but the 204 is all the rage around here now, so that obviously means it just HAS to be good! :D

Honestly, I don't have any sound reason for getting a 204 since my 243 will do anything I need for little critters a long ways away. But still I really really need one. :D

I do have a question though for the OP. I don't know much about Austrailian critters other than they have a lot dingos, rabbits, and snakes out there. What kind of varmints can you shoot down there? Do they have anything similar to prairie dogs or rock chucks?

[butta9999]

OK Doodlebugger- , We have many species of vermen here in Australia.

The ones best suited to the .204 are

Rabbits
Cats
Foxes
Hares
Wild dog
Dingo
Goats (neck/Head shot)

Where i hunt for rabbits/foxes is very hilly and most shots are across valleys, or up and down the hills. I do have great success with the .222 rem i have but i am looking for something new.

Go to the hunt forums and check out a couple of the photos i have on varmints. Check out the cat.....................

[Slowshot]

See my handloading vs. commercial ammunition thread for this discussion.

[Pukindog]

I prefer my .19-223 to either of those cartridges; if only for the "what is it" looks and questions. Ballistics are also impressive. I can load bullet weights from 27 grs. to 44 grs. No recoil, not very load, and sub MOA accuracy.

Jeff

[crghss]

You may want to post this question in the Handloading and Reloading section. Between these two cartridges you are very limited in factory ammo. Where as if you reload that opens a whole new dimension. Think there'd be a much bigger variety of reloading options shooting a .223 as opposed to the the .204 but they'll know better over there.

[Come and take it.]

can't go wrong with the 220 swift. The 204 is faster, flatter and bucks the wind better but it does not have comparable power. Power comes into play when you are making fringe hits on groundhogs or crows. It will also be more forgiving on bad placement on medium sized game as well.

The 204 like the 17 hmr and 17 hm2 are a marketing strategy aimed at selling products at the same price as other cartridges (in some cases more) but have less material invested in the construction thereby. .... Which is contradictory in so many ways.

The 220 swift is one of the few small caliber cartridges to join the 243 and 25-06 in that it is pretty devestating when making a fringe hit.

[Zhillsauditor]

The 204 like the 17 hmr and 17 hm2 are a marketing strategy aimed at selling products at the same price as other cartridges (in some cases more) but have less material invested in the construction thereby.

Hmmm, I think of my 17hm2 as a way to shoot a flat trajectory rimfire at a low price. I guess it is about twice the price of 22lr, but half the price of 22wmr and 17hmr. It's way fun to shoot.

[Buzzcook]

First I'd fix up your old .222, that's a fine round.

But between the Swift and the .204 I'd go with the Ruger. It's just fun as heck to shoot.

And +1 on the CZ, they're pretty and the shoot real good.

[mdd]

I have two ruger m77 mkii v/t model rifles. One is a 22-250 and the other is a 25-06 and both are absolute tack drivers. They come with a factory two-stage user-adjustable trigger that is surprisingly good. The v/t model's accuracy is nothing to scoff at with both of mine shooting 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds. Pretty hard to turn your nose up at that for roughly half the price of the comparable savage.

[FrankenMauser]

This thread is more than a year old.

[mdd]

Good eye, frank.
I'll leave this dead one to the buzzards.