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View Full Version : S&W govt. bonanza is doubtful


Mr. Pub
April 11, 2000, 09:20 AM
I guess that S&W is not going to get as much government gun business as they originally thought.

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Wall Street Journal

Gun foes, led by the Clinton administration, are threatening to use the purchasing power of law-enforcement agencies to pressure gun makers into changing the way they do business.

But a close look at their plan reveals that the politicians' purse strings probably aren't as powerful as they claim.

The administration and 70 mayors nationwide have declared that when it comes time to buy new handguns, they want police in their jurisdictions to favor firearm makers willing to comply with sweeping restrictions in manufacturing and marketing. The goal is to reward Smith & Wesson Corp., which broke ranks with the gun industry when it agreed to such curbs last month.

U.S. Housing Secretary Andrew Cuomo, who is leading the initiative, estimates that governments at all levels together buy more than 500,000 police guns annually, or 25% of the overall handgun market. That, he says, is "considerable purchasing power to encourage gun manufacturers to make a safer product."

But the notion that a government can simply shift gun contracts to Smith & Wesson conceals a far more complex reality. Most jurisdictions that want to favor S&W would have to amend open-bidding laws that require guns and other items to be purchased based on price and quality. That process could take months or years in some areas. What's more, most police departments already have the guns they'll need for years, and police representatives say that many officers would resist any effort that deprives them of their choice of gun.

Executives with S&W, the largest U.S. handgun maker and a unit of Britain's Tomkins PLC, say they welcome any advantage they can get. In exchange for settling much of the government litigation filed or threatened against the company, S&W agreed last month to measures such as imposing restrictions on its dealers that go far beyond federal law and introducing a high-tech gun that fires only for authorized users.

But S&W rivals, all of which have refused to sign such a pact, say they aren't intimidated by government threats. "We're not taking this seriously," says Paul Jannuzzo, vice president of the U.S. unit of Austria's Glock GmbH. Glock makes the pistols that are most popular with U.S. police and derives half of its revenue from law-enforcement sales.

One reason for Mr. Jannuzzo's confidence, he says, is that in the past few years, Glock sold guns to "the vast majority" of the cities and states that ended up supporting the S&W preference. Those jurisdictions aren't likely to have to buy new guns for many years to come. Several of the biggest cities that have joined the Cuomo initiative, including Boston and New Orleans, confirm this assertion.

In Philadelphia, Mayor John F. Street was one of the first politicians to promise to favor S&W, but before he announced his support, the city had just completed its purchase of Glock pistols for its 7,000 officers. Barbara Grant, a spokeswoman for the mayor, acknowledges that the city's recent purchase could undermine the mayor's intentions. "We're in a tricky place," she says.

The way police guns are acquired in many cities also could lessen the impact of the S&W preference. Increasingly, police forces don't buy guns in bulk. Since officers often want a choice of weapons, some municipalities have arranged for them to use their own cash to choose from a list of approved models. In Miami-Dade County, for example, selections for members of the 3,000-person force include Beretta and Sig Sauer. S&W guns are also on the list, but police officers say those have become less popular in recent years as other companies churn out newer, sleeker pistols.

Local officials acknowledge they are reluctant to risk hurting morale by ending officers' ability to choose their weapon, even though Miami-Dade Mayor Alex Penelas embraced the Cuomo initiative early on. "Certain people have their own preferences, and those who want to go with Sig Sauer are not going to have a Smith & Wesson," says John Rivera, president of the union for Miami-Dade police.

Joe Ramallo, the mayor's assistant director for policy, says Miami-Dade is considering offering a $100 rebate for selecting a Smith & Wesson -- but the offer probably would be enticing only to the 100 or so rookies who buy new guns each year.

Other police representatives agree that their constituents would resist any directive to favor guns based on a manufacturer's willingness to settle politicized lawsuits. Choosing a gun is "a health and safety issue," says Jack Roberts, president of the Southern States Police Benevolent Association, which represents 18,000 officers in Georgia and eight other states.

Police chiefs also are worried about alienating their troops. Chief Trevor Hampton of Flint, Mich., faces the imminent replacement of the decade-old 9mm Smith & Wessons for his 350-person force. The city's mayor has asked Chief Hampton to buy new S&Ws, but the chief's firearm experts have rated the Sig Sauer as more durable and accurate, and the police rank-and-file prefer the better-known and easier-to-shoot Glock. "If we had our druthers we'd go with the one the majority likes," Chief Hampton says, adding that he'll wait to see how the Flint City Council responds to the mayor's request.

Clinton administration officials maintain that they don't intend to pressure police into using unpopular guns. But "there is often more than one 'right' weapon that gets the job done," one administration aide says, and "once police officers hear that they will get the weapon they need, they accept the idea."

Still, some cities say that tight budgets may require them to refurbish service weapons rather than buy new ones. In St. Louis, another city that signed onto the Cuomo initiative, Mayor Clarence Harmon -- part of the five-person board that controls the police department -- has urged other members to consider buying new firearms only from companies like S&W that agree to new gun controls. But replacing the city's arsenal of 1,800 Beretta SpA pistols would cost $500,000 or more. Board member Edward Roth says, "If we can meet our needs on $75,000 of refurbishment, it doesn't make sense to spend a half-million dollars on new guns."

The police department of Akron, Ohio, also on Mr. Cuomo's list, already uses S&W weapons but says it isn't looking to replace them soon. "We currently use Smith & Wesson and have for 10 years," says Mike Woody, director of training for the 600-officer department. "We're not looking to replace them."

Officials within the Clinton administration and some coalition participants admit they have hit snags. "This won't immediately provide tons of business to Smith & Wesson but over time [the impact] will be felt," contends one Clinton administration aide.

Senator Charles Schumer (D., N.Y.) says he intends to introduce legislation that would get around the open-bidding laws and require federal law-enforcement agencies, such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation, to give preference to S&W. But Mr. Schumer will likely run into strong opposition organized by the National Rifle Association, which has vehemently condemned S&W's settlement as a sellout.

PTGDVC
April 11, 2000, 09:31 AM
Thanks for the post.

Why these morons get elected is beyond my understanding.

Hey, ED & KEN and the rest of you at Slick & Wesson, the Cavalry is NOT coming. Have a nice day while you update your resumes.

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BOYCOTT SLICK & WESSON

"To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it."
Confucius

SlackO
April 11, 2000, 09:37 AM
Nice how the politicians can dictate (and fully comprehend)what is 'adequate' for the Front Line. They are wrong in so many ways that it's astounding they can tie their own shoes.

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Anarchism: The radical notion that I am the sole authority when it comes to deciding what's best for me.

Glenn E. Meyer
April 11, 2000, 11:11 AM
We should write to the White House and demand an executive order that the Secret Service all immediately switch to SW Sigmas.

That will reward SW and give them a Glock
clone. Oh, doesn't Glock get some bucks
from SW for patent infringement?

kjm
April 11, 2000, 11:23 AM
Oh and Glenn, don't forget to mention how appropriate it would be if the Secret Service were to place trigger locks on their weapons. I mean- if they really don't take that much time to get off... :)

Karanas
April 11, 2000, 12:01 PM
Also keep in mind that the majority of lawsuits against S&W have not been dropped. So their legal expenses continue.
As the boycott against their products continues to grow, their cash flow will steadily diminish. As any income from these preferential gov't purchases appears to be in the distant future, if at all, it would seem that those idiots have painted themselves into a pretty dark little corner.

Jeff OTMG
April 11, 2000, 12:02 PM
After the last FBI encounter with S&W autos, the 10mm, I would not expect the Bureau to go that way again anytime soon.

LawDog
April 11, 2000, 12:26 PM
GOOD!

I'll be the dog on the metaphorical shore waving my...paw... while Smith & Wesson does a wonderful RMS Titanic impression.

LawDog

bergie
April 11, 2000, 12:50 PM
While most of this this is good to hear, the last part of the original post just lets you know how much farther these clowns in public offices are willing to bend the law, and bend over the American people.

" Sen. Schumer says he intends to introduce legislation that would get around the open bidding laws and require federal law enforcement agencies such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation to give give preference to S&W."

And this guy says we use "loopholes"!

bergie

Jeff White
April 11, 2000, 01:01 PM
The Illinois State Police was the first large agency to go to a 9mm auto, they have always issued Smith and Wesson until last year, when they began phasing out the 5904s and started issuing Glock .40s with the academy class that graduated last September.

The small department I work part time for issues the 5906. We are also going to replace our Smiths with Glocks. As soon as I get to the range and qualify with my Beretta 92F and buy a new duty holster for it, I will turn in the 5906. Smith and Wesson was nice enough to send us 3 of their SW99 (Walther collaborations) to test, but the agreement with the government sealed the deal for Glock. Granted, it's only a purchase of 24 pistols, but every little bit helps.

This seems to be a moot point as most agencies converted to semi-autos several years ago. Smith and Wesson got a pretty good market share of the conversion to 9mm semi-autos, but I don't think they were that competitive as agencies began converting from 9mm to .40 and .45.

Jeff

bruels
April 11, 2000, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff OTMG:
After the last FBI encounter with S&W autos, the 10mm, I would not expect the Bureau to go that way again anytime soon.[/quote]

Which encounter was that?

Jeff White
April 11, 2000, 03:28 PM
Bruels,
I think Jeff is referring to the ill fated adoption of the S&W 10mm as the FBI's duty weapon.

I'm not sure how many they actually fielded before they were recalled from the field, but the program was a disaster.

Jeff

CMOS
April 11, 2000, 03:38 PM
What we're seeing is a prime example of "The Third Way" - big government and big business.

No surprise that Klinton fully supports this "new era of government".

Please vote...

CMOS

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GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!

Don Gwinn
April 11, 2000, 04:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Clinton administration officials maintain that they don't intend to pressure police into using unpopular guns. But "there is often more than one 'right' weapon that gets the job done," one administration aide says, and "once police officers hear that they will get the weapon they need, they accept the idea."
[/quote]

Translation: Those ungrateful bastards should be glad we allow them to carry guns at all! Once they realize that this is the only way to get the weapon they need, they WILL accept the idea.
We have ways of making people accept our ideas.

Glenn E. Meyer
April 11, 2000, 05:01 PM
My friend's Sigma 40 was its own trigger lock as it would never shoot a round. Jammo!!

I personally think the excellent Sigma trigger is just what is needed for the Secret Service.

:)

Jeff Thomas
April 11, 2000, 10:55 PM
"Choosing a gun is 'a health and safety issue,' says Jack Roberts, president of the Southern States Police Benevolent Association ..."

No sh**, Sherlock. This is exactly why civilians aren't interested in being forced to buy untrustworthy 'smart' guns, low capacity magazines and all the other restrictions government is forcing down our throats. LEO's (especially the police chiefs, who are really at fault) should realize the damage they do to community relationships when they cooperate in forcing civilians to accept substandard firearms.

It is indeed a 'health and safety issue'.