glock 23c blew up last weekend

[Dash]

my brother in law and i went to the range last saturday, he brought along his g23c. he used handloaded teflon rounds.

the chamber split, broke the trigger and the mag release. magazine broke and spilled all the contents. shooter's hand was unharmed.

caused by a case head failure, the load was pretty weak or there would have been more damage to the gun and injury to the shooter.

be safe, wear eye protection always.

[JohnKSa]

...handloaded teflon rounds...Your brother-in-law needs to work on his veracity and his handloading.

I'll reopen this thread with a public apology to you and your brother-in-law if you can PM me verifiable information on where he bought the .40 caliber teflon bullets he put in his handloads.


<<My apologies to Dash & his brother-in-law. I assumed that they were located in the U.S. where no such items were available and that made me quite suspicious of his post.>>

[Ruthless4christ]

Yo!! Lets see some pics of that gun!

[Dash]

@JohnKSa: thank you for reopening the thread.

Just to clear up some confusion on "Teflon Heads"

"teflon rounds" are quite common here in the Philippines, widely used by IPSC shooters here. they are lead core, teflon or moly coated heads.

i think they are banned in the US because of "anti-armor" properties, but they are false, it is used extensively here so that you will have no lead deposits on your barrel. softer recoiling than lead rounds too.

@Ruthless4christ:

will post some pics of the gun and ammo as soon as i can.

[Dash]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/dashwerks/P3140578.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/dashwerks/P3140578b.jpg

[Warchild]

Wow! Glad no one was hurt bro! That is crazy.... got any pics of the barrel and ramp? Also, what were the specs on the load? Again, glad no one was hurt.

[Dash]

@Warchild: will try to get clearer pics of the chamber.

[ZeSpectre]

I don't know about anyone else but it absolutely amazes me how this sort of thing happens and nobody is seriously hurt. Once again my hat is off to the folks who design these guns to handle failure without damaging the shooter.

(which isn't to say that I don't wish these events didn't happen in the first place)

[rantingredneck]

Indeed, glad no one was hurt. I suppose the path of least resistance for an autoloader KB is out the bottom of the magazine and the open chamber.

Never personally experienced one but that seems to be the pattern we see in reports of these incidents.

[Piper Cub]

Hand loads will do it every time. I see a dissasembled magazine .

[LanceOregon]

There is a reason why Glocks Kaboom in that direction:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/unsupported_glock.jpg


Compare that to my S&W M&P's barrel:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/DSC_0400b_on.jpg

[BillCoe]

Lance Oregon, great pics, very descriptive.

Dash: Your Glock 23 was the .40 caliber ? Glad your Brother in law is fine. Is Glock going to do anything for you folks on this?

[JohnKSa]

Most manufacturers will not do much to work with you if reloads are involved.

Some will sell you a new gun at factory cost (which is quite generous given that they can't verify that it was a problem with their product) but some won't do anything at all.There is a reason why Glocks Kaboom in that direction:The round in the picture you posted was clearly overpressure. More chamber support would not have helped--it's easy to see that the chamber was actually compromised by the overpressure round. In other words, if there's enough pressure to split the feedramp away from the chamber and peel it downward there's enough pressure to do the same even if there were more chamber support.

When there's a case failure that is related to lack of chamber support*, the case blows out, the magazine blows out and may be damaged and that's about it. If the chamber splits or the feedramp peels down, there HAS to be more pressure than standard or the steel of the gun would not be affected. It's not like the steel suddenly gets softer and significantly more susceptible to damage when the case blows out.

I'm not sure where the idea got started that when the case fails it somehow compromises the steel barrel and slide...

*RELATED to, not caused by. If chamber support issue caused case failures then no gun without a fully supported chamber would be safe to shoot. The guns are safe to shoot as long as the cases are in good condition. When they get weakened (as by repeated reloadings) then they can blow out. In that situation more chamber support can prevent a case failure. But if the incident compromises the steel of the barrel then the issue is NOT a simple case failure it's an overpressure round. The damage to the steel barrel is sufficient evidence of that fact.

[Brian Pfleuger]

My Glock 33 chamber looks MUCH closer to the M&P than the other Glocks in those photos. It is as close to full support as I can imagine is possible. There might be 1/64 inch unsupported area, maybe.

[Dash]

@BillCoe yes, the glock is .40sw, with barrel ports. And warranties are not honored here in the Philippines, and just as John said it was voided the moment it fed non factory ammo. Good thing the load was weak, if it was set to major load the damage would have been greater.

i think there is a severe design flaw of the glock .40 barrel due to the unsupported portion of the chamber. I am a range officer and frequent the range, i have witnessed case failures on a .40sw 1911 type armscor pistol with no damage to the gun or the user, and also a taurus PT92 9mm, the lady shooting the gun did not get injured and no damage to the gun.

the best option for my brother in law is to have the glock fixed and use an after market barrel with a better case support.

[James K]

I hate to interrupt the Glock bashing, but might I suggest that if the load was a light one, then that round might have been double charged? That really looks like a very high pressure load rather than just a light load with a case failure.

As an example, 4.5 grains of Bullseye is a light load; 9 grains of Bullseye will do just what we saw there, guaranteed.

Jim

[protectedbyglock]

Glad nobody got hurt, dash.
I'm also wondering if maybe you got a double charge. Seems very likely. My G21 has taken some pretty hot bullseye loads.

My glock .45 doesn't look like the one in the pic, either.
Did they change that in the later models?
I mean, mines certainly not new (it is a gen 3, though), but it doesn't look near as unsupported as that one in the pic.
If I could find my stupid camera, I'd take a pic for comparison.

[shortwave]

Dash, glad you guys are o.k. One day, I hope there will be some kind of database where kabooms with reloads and factory loads are recorded with all makes of guns. There`s got to be a reason (unsupported/less supported chamber) that makes some guns more prone than others. Years ago I reloaded, with help of others, just about all my ammo for revolvers and auto-loaders. The 41mag. being(and still is) my fav. to load. There was a large group(20-30 guys) that loaded for many different cal`s. Different guys had their favorites. We stayed in contact with each other, discussed loads, loaded for each other, swapped brass and loading data. Very seldom did we experience kabooms that are so randomly talked about tobay. We were by far expert loaders. Once loaded 100+- rds. of 41mag. (new cases) so hot the cases split lengthwise and had to remove them out of cyl. with a screwdriver. We experimented. Stupid yes,:o but the Smith they were shot out of didn`t kaboom. Still own and shoot same gun today. Have experimented with some crazy 45 acp. loads out of old Springfields(they used to be a dime-a-dozen) that didn`t blow out chambers like you hear about out of some guns today. Everytime someone has a kaboom today seems as though 'the reload' is always to blame. Is it the fact that the brass casings are made from different alloys today???? Is it a fact that people today aren`t as careful when loading??? Or is it a fact that gun manufacturers are building a gun today out of material that are right on the edge of function and KABOOM. Materials that are cheap to produce but yield big profit. P.S. Warning: don`t use reloads in these state of the art, non-chamber supported, overpriced(for what it cost to make) guns. There reliable till they go KABOOM then there will be an explanation for it. How bout building guns safe for recommended reloads with just a smidge extra like they used to be;).

[HvyMtl]

I am very thankful there was no injuries.

Has Glock done anything with this seemingly "design flaw?"

Hmm. Was it due to an accidental mis-load?

:eek:

[djohn]

Glock page 29 Notice.The use of other then high quality commercially manufactured ammunitionin good condition or any combination thereof Glock will not honor claims involving this firearm for any reason or cause when such claims are made by the second or sebsequent owner.


I hate reloads especially for semiauto they can be problematic.I have used factory reloads in the past with revolvers only and In one way or another I experienced problems not all the time but more then I would like. I would not recommend any reloads for a Glock 40 or any other glock for that matter.

Glad no one was hurt from the glock KB.

[shortwave]

Thanks djohn. Confirms what I`m saying. May miss my guess, buuutt... I won`t own a gun I CAN`T safely reload for, will you? HvyMtl-check the previous threads on this and other forums pertaining to kabooms of Glocks with lack of chamber support. There`s many guns that have their reputation of FTF,FTE but not many more have the KABOOM factor than the Glock... Always blamed on a reload!

[HisSoldier]

The round in the picture you posted was clearly overpressure. More chamber support would not have helped--it's easy to see that the chamber was actually compromised by the overpressure round. In other words, if there's enough pressure to split the feedramp away from the chamber and peel it downward there's enough pressure to do the same even if there were more chamber support.

It looks to me like the chamber wall is paper thin on the right side.

[djohn]

Yes I agree a Gun should be manufactured and well supported of the round it fires,reloads or no reloads but I just dont just reloads thats just me. I do know many people that reload with no issues at all.My firearms are my pride and joy and only get feed with New even if it cost me.To be honest as much as I love glocks the 40 Is not one of them in the Glock lineup.

[Dash]

just a side note: i have yet to see a KB from a glock with an aftermarket barrel. my money is still on the case failure and not a double charge.

a fully supported chamber should handle a case failure with no problems.

i had a chat with the local gunsmith here, he had fixed 4 broken glocks with the same KB problem, all were in .40sw. no problems with any other caliber yet.

told me barrel change solved the problems, even when shooting lead head reloads. he recommends 9mm glocks only. thousands of rounds and being commonly used in production division here with no incident, even with stock glock barrels.

[djohn]

Well if that the case that the barrel doesn't support well I would think Glock would at least change the barrel for better support by know. I mean its not like the glock 40 just hit the streets.IMO folks should not have to go out a drop another Benjamin for a barrel to be safe.

[JohnKSa]

i have yet to see a KB from a glock with an aftermarket barrelThere's a pic of a Glock kB! on TheGunZone that involved an aftermarket barrel.a fully supported chamber should handle a case failure with no problems.So you believe that the case failure is what caused the chamber to fail as opposed to this being an overpressure round?

How is it that a case failing (and venting) results in so much additional stress on the chamber that it can split the chamber?

One would logically think that if the case fails that would REDUCE the pressure by allowing the gases to vent through the opening in the case and therefore similarly reduce the stress on the chamber.

[Dash]

having a fully supported chamber helps

the following pics are of a .40sw case failure in an Armscor 1911 from a fellow gun club member, the gun was not damaged whatsoever
http://www.photo.net.ph/albums/userpics/10837/IMG_2628.jpg
http://www.photo.net.ph/albums/userpics/10837/IMG_2631.jpg
http://www.photo.net.ph/albums/userpics/10837/IMG_2632.jpg

[JohnKSa]

the following pics are of a .40sw case failure in an Armscor 1911 from a fellow gun club member, the gun was not damaged whatsoeverThat's EXACTLY my point. A simple case failure should NOT result in significant damage to the gun.

A simple case failure (a case that is weakened or defective blows out at the feedramp) is NOT an overpressure event, but rather a FAILURE of the case. That should not result in any significant damage to the gun past possible damage to the magazine & magazine catch.

Furthermore I'm saying that the presence of significant damage (such as a peeled feedramp, split chamber or damaged slide) is, in and of itself, sufficient evidence to make the determination that a simple case failure was not the issue, but rather that an overpressure event took place. I don't understand why it is that people believe that a case failure can CAUSE a chamber to split. Logically if the chamber splits there had to be excess pressure. That excess pressure will also naturally cause the case to fail, but that's a second symptom of an overpressure event, not the other way around.

The bigger point being that a case failure can be encouraged (though not CAUSED) by reduced case support, but reduced case support will not cause a case failure (in the absence of a defective or weakened case) and neither a case failure or reduced case support will cause the chamber to split or the feedramp to peel down, etc.

Again, I wish someone would explain the mechanism by which they believe a simple case failure generates sufficient pressure to deform and split a steel chamber.
****************************************
Cause
Overpressure Event
Results
Blown Case
Possible damage to the magazine/magazine release
Possible damage to chamber/barrel/slide/frame
****************************************
Cause

Weakened or defective case

Result

Simple Case Failure/Blown Case
Possible damage to the magazine/magazine release

****************************************
Cause

Reduced chamber support

Result

NOTHING unless the case is weakened or defective in which case a simple case failure may result.

****************************************
The point is that reduced chamber support doesn't cause ANYTHING unless you put a bad/weakened case in the gun.

Reduced chamber support also doesn't do anything to make a simple case failure worse. No one has explained or even hypothesized about a mechanism by which reduced chamber support can turn a simple case failure into a split chamber or peeled feedramp.

[Dash]

i still believe that it was not an overcharged round, the explosion was not remarkable. I still think it is a glock .40 flaw.

facts: of all the case failures on the local range 2 resulted in firearm damage. both were .40 glocks. why does other .40 firearms contain a case failure and not a glock?

4 damaged glocks in my gunsmith were all .40 glocks.

are all those because of overcharged rounds? or a design flaw of the .40 glock?

i have been looking around the net, most glock KBs were with .40sw glocks. there are just too many incidents out there to just blame the ammo.

so there are 4 40sw glocks that i know of damaged here in our small city of bacolod, there are even other incidents in manila, one even captured in a youtube video.

why the 40sw glocks only?

[Sport45]

It looks to me like the chamber wall is paper thin on the right side.

That's just from the camera angle. If the shot had been taken square with the cartridge base everything would look symmetrical left to right.

[Willie Lowman]

I have been putting 155gr JHPs on 6.5 grains of Unique all morning. I am using once fired PMC, UMC and WWB brass. I don't reload my brass more than once because I am afraid of this very thing happening.

There`s many guns that have their reputation of FTF,FTE but not many more have the KABOOM factor than the Glock... Always blamed on a reload! I suppose the .40 Glock is infamous for it. It is always blamed on a reload because nobody's pistol KBed on a factory load. This comes down to responsibility, if my G24C blows up this weekend it will be my fault for screwing up the load. FWIW, I load on a RCBS Rockchucker. I see every step on every round. I weigh my one of powder charges every 8 rounds for consistency. What kind of reloading machine are you guys using?

[ElectricHellfire]

Why can't some people just read the manual and do what it says for god's sake? NO hand-loads in Glocks.

Hell, even if you don't read the manual, this has been beaten to death on the forums.

You should not be surprised that it blew up.

[HisSoldier]

That's just from the camera angle.

That's the torn edge I'm looking at. Camera angle can't effect that thin torn edge. People will believe what they want to though.

[HisSoldier]

Why can't some people just read the manual and do what it says for god's sake? NO hand-loads in Glocks.

I don't understand why anyone would want a gun that can't be hand loaded for. Most 1911's have that liability dodge in their manuals but there are probably many times as many reloads going through them than off the shelf ammo. If I shoot a pistol very much (Except .22 LR) handloading is not an option, it's a necessity.

[Silvanus]

Handloads + unjacketed lead bullets ... Really, how often does it have to happen for people to realize this is not what they should shoot in their Glocks:barf:

[Dingoboyx]

another possibility is the quality (tolerance) of the teflon projectile. I had an excessive weekend last weekend and shot shootloads of ammo (handloads) thru my 44-40 and 44 mag Vaquaros (sorry, I know this is the SA forum.... I also shoot Glock 34 and P22) Whilst reloading just now, I wondered why some of my teflon slugs, especially the 44-40, the slug would sit nicely in the flared case mouth, and others wouldnt even start to back into the mouth. I had a lightbulb moment and grabbed the trusty vernier caliper and measued the seats of the projectiles. I use green coloured slugs for the 44-40 and orange for the mag, so as not to confuse when lining up ammo for a sinerio SASA
Seems the green slugs that should be 10.84mm (.427") for the 44-40 had got some 10.92mm (.430") slugs mixed in from my supplier :eek: Then I checked the orange mag slugs that should be 10.92 (.430") for the magnum, they are all 10.88mm (.428")??? Luckily, 44-40 can shoot up to 10.92 slugs.

The reason for all this waffle about my revolvers (in the SA forum) is that perhapse whoever supplied the projectiles to your BiL, has a few odd ones in there (mold didnt close properly?) meaning that one particular projectile was just a teeny weenie bit big for the barrel, thus the charge could find an easier way out, thru the partially un supported case? Did the projectile exit the barrel? How many times had the case been reloaded? Was it weakened by too many reloads?

Maybe a whole lot of things just went wrong on the day, perhapse all of them? The case might have been a bit tired, the projectile a tad too big, a bit hot load, and perhapse the case (with a weak spot from a few firings before) and the weak spot just happened to be in the worst (most un supported) place it could have been (bad luck)

Maybe your BiL should check his remaining projectiles to see that they are within tollerance for the glock barrel? see if there is a few fat ones in there?

I am so glad I saw this post.... I have all the dies and things to handload for my Glock 34 and I am just waiting for some projectiles to arrive (from the same supplier :eek:) so I am going to measure them for consistancy before I load them..... Actually, to be honest, I really dont think I will bother re loading 9mm now. I can buy 50 jacketed factory ammo from my club for $15 for 50, or from my local GS 50 factory lead heads for $20 Might be safer in the long run to stick with factory ammo?

My Glock 34 has a stainless Storm Lake Barrel.... gonna definately go check how much is unsupported :eek:

Thanks again for the thread, I would never have imagined that could have happened.... Will make me check everything (twice) from now on.

Glad no one was hurt :)

Muzza

[Dingoboyx]

You just sold me...... Not gonna reload for my glock 34, I lljust have to stash the dies in the "museum" with the other crud I wont use :o:D

I dont think unjacketed lead (factory) ammo should be a prob in my G34 coz of the aftermarket barrell? Whats your opinion Silvanus & HiSoldier?

Muzza

[ElectricHellfire]

I believe many of the aftermarket barrels have regular rifling, not the polygonal that comes on stock Glock barrels. If you have an aftermarket barrel, lead bullets are ok from what I hear. Some also have full chamber support so you would be covered in that regard as well.

[Dingoboyx]

What do you think about my suggestion about a dodgy slug? If the slug was a bit big and therefore strugling to get down the barrel, the case might have failed due tho the unsupported bit not being able to hold up against the charge? Is it a possible explaination you reckon?

Muzza

[ElectricHellfire]

Dingoboyx,

I think that is entirely plausable also. As you stated above in your earlier post it might have been a combination of factors as well.

However, I think you are safe with your Storm Lake barrel. No worries. :)

[Silvanus]

Whats your opinion

As long as it has a standard rifling, lead bullets are no problem. But barrels with a polygonal rifling do not like unjacketed lead;)

[B.N.Real]

The 40 S&W seems to have a penchant for this problem but unfortunately because you used privately reloaded rounds in it and said as much,you have voided the warranty.

At least,if you had used commercially availible reloads you might have been able to get some compensation.

There was a flurry of these reports and then they went away,mostly,I think,because shooters stopped trying to run hot handloads in Glocks.

The thing is that it did not need to be a hot reload that caused the ka boom,it only needed to be a case that had been reused one to many times.

A thin area at the case head due to stretch would have done this even with a standard load.

Glad to read you were o.k and nice to read you are being honest about using a handloaded round when it blew.

[DarthTedd]

I know it's been brought up a few times already in this thread, but how is Glock responsible when their warranty wasn't followed?

I work for an electronics retailer & we have many customers who use the devices in environments the specs were not intended for. Our warranty clearly states the designed use, yet customers who can't follow it call in asking for free repairs when the device is damaged.

I don't see the logic.

[djohn]

Another senerio is bullet seating for thats very important, example i have read somewhere that some don't recommend 180 GR on a 40 because its easy to boost pressure from excessive seating and There for the pressure can be doubled rather easily.

[B.N.Real]

djohn ,you are absolutely right.

If the case was'nt resized properly and the bullet sunk in under recoil while in the mag..ouch!

All that pressure would be concentrated right at the back of the case-right where the barrel does not support the case.

Great call!

[djohn]

Thanks B.N, Real and On that note I usually never give second thoughts to the KBs but when a thread like this comes along I can't help thinking of it when I shoot my bottlenecked Sig .357. I think its time to build custom kevlar Gloves.LOL

[dougbull]

of course glad no one got hurt.every gun owners nightmare. that is the 4th time I heard of a glock blowing up in sombodys hand.I guess the great glock aint so great after all.none of my 9mms ever did that not the smiths, taurus, kel-tec, hell not even my high-point. so much for gun snobs

[Sport45]

That's the torn edge I'm looking at. Camera angle can't effect that thin torn edge. People will believe what they want to though.

I was looking at the barrel that still had the feed ramp attached. The camera angle makes the near side look rather thin.

It's hard to tell much about bent, twisted metal from only one picture. But the blown chamber does look impossibly thin in the area you mention.

[ldpantoja]

pics wont show on my PC

Can anybody on here send them to me?

[JohnKSa]

why the 40sw glocks only?It's not ONLY the .40S&W Glocks, but there are some reasons why .40S&W is not as tolerant of what would otherwise be considered minor reloading glitches.

For example, when you're using the 180gr bullets, seating them just 0.10" too deep can DOUBLE the discharge pressure. By the same token, if the case doesn't grip the bullet firmly enough and the bullet is set back 0.10" during the feeding process the same thing applies.

Just for fun, try this experiment. Take your brother-in-law's reloads and measure 10 of them for OAL. Chamber each round, eject it and then re-measure each round and see if the bullets are setting back and by how much.

Also it would be interesting to find out if he's using 180gr bullets.

[Dash]

the gun is being repaired now with a new KKM barrel, we plan to shoot the snot out of it with lead reloads. :)

Shooting with factory ammo is just too expensive, having a gun that only shoots factory ammo is very much useless for an avid shooter here.

[TEDDY]

you cant compare 45 to the 40.or even the 9mm.the 45 pressure is far less
and the 9 is lower and has more metal around it.when your up in the 40,000
range a sleight error in loading will raise the pressure.why the tuflon.I shoot my 45 and never clean till end of season.no leading BUT I am not shooting 40,000lbs. I would buy the 1911 since you have them made there and they are a good gun.and 45 will do any thing the 40 will.over sized lead bullets wont make a difference except wont go in gun.lead is so much easier to compress.

[Stevie-Ray]

Is this problem of unsupported chambers in the .40 and .45s only? I've noticed my G29 has a fully supported chamber; I checked that when I first got it. But it seems that if Glock can do it for the 10mms, why should it be so hard to do it for all?

[B.N.Real]

Stevie Ray,thanks for posting that info.

I was wondering how Glock was approaching the powerful 10mm round if the 40 S&W was causing some problems.

[Scubasimmons]

Let me preface with "NOT" a ballistics experts....A hypothesis which may explain why a weakened case and subsequent failure may lead to a failure of the barrel/feed ramp interface(qualitatively not quantitatively...I don't want to do the math). Please correct any assumptions and I'll see if I can address them.

Assume maximum normal pressure limit for barrel.
Assume weakened case which allows pressure to be released explosively from the unsupported portion of the case.

The case would likely begin to rupture near any stress concentrators such as a bend in the case (case would also likely be slightly thinner here since they are formed and not cast). The explosion would be focused at the rupture causing a banana peel affect at the rear of the casing. The casing would then make contact with back of the feed ramp causing a levering effect increasing the force where the feed ramp meets the chamber. Granted the distance from the end of the ramp to the chamber is not far. The Glock design seems to have a sharp vertical transition to the bottom of the chamber, another stress concentrator and once the crack begins to propagate not much additional force would be required to cause complete failure.

I would say the feed ramp on the Glock may be more prone to failure due to the thickness of the material rather than the lack of support of the case (more prone is a relative term). I would like to see data on how this failure mode varies between chambers which fully support the casing and those that do not. I would assume a large enough sample size would span equals popoultation for those who use reloads and those who use commercially mfg'd ammunition. I also do not believe there is a systemic problem with the Glocks. A lot of smart people were likely involved in the design and evolution of the gun.

BTW - Glock 19 is actually the only auto I've actually shot, so I have no bias for or against them. I plan on chaging that in the very near future, but I'm going to need to do some testing of my own.

[JohnKSa]

Assume maximum normal pressure limit for barrel.NOBODY reputable is selling or recommending loads that actually approach the true maximum pressure limits of the barrels of modern quality firearms.I would say the feed ramp on the Glock may be more prone to failure due to the thickness of the material...Here's a picture showing a Glock .40 cal barrel from the chamber end.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44280&stc=1&d=1237605296
I think there's plenty of metal there, it's just the camera angles in the other photos that make it look thin.

[NWCP]

Glad to hear no one was injured. One question though... what's the big surprise with a Glock .40 going kaboom? :rolleyes:

[N.H. Yankee]

I picked up once fired range brass for reloading at a local police range that was using Glock 40's. Almost 30% of the 2000 cases had to be trashed because the web area was expanded past acceptable limits which weakens the case. The brass was a mix of Speer and Winchester, they were depleting their Winchester rounds and switching to Speer gold dots. The over expanded cases were a mix of both companies.

I have found this time and again with Glocks, chambers with specs that seem to be on the big side. I own or have owned 5 various smith 40's, 1 Glock compact, 1 H&K USP compact, 2 Sigs P239, P229, 2 Taurus, 1 Browning Hi_power, a CZ, and a Walther ALL 40 cal and never had the problem with cases being over expanded after firing with the exception of the Glock. I was told by a major dealer that Glocks specs run on the large side so they will feed about anything. Great idea, but when a gun goes BOOM not a real good thing in the middle of a gun battle. I think that ALL 40's should have full chamber support. I have never seen a quality 40 that didn't feed all my reloads or factory loads 100% reliability.

[Bionicrooster]

So in reference to the 180 grain bullets, I am a new 40 owner, should I NOT be shooting 180's? Keep in mind I don't reload and usually shoot American Eagle 180's at the range. Is this fine or am I tempting fate? Also FYI I do not shoot a glock and my gun has a fully supported chamber.

[JohnKSa]

So in reference to the 180 grain bullets, I am a new 40 owner, should I NOT be shooting 180's? Keep in mind I don't reload and usually shoot American Eagle 180's at the range. Is this fine or am I tempting fate?There's nothing wrong with the 180gr bullets in general, it's just that they make the cartridge more sensitive to setback.

This whole thread is about issues that can become important if something else goes wrong.


"Generous" Chambers become important if cases are weak or defective.
Polygonal Rifling becomes important if lead fouling builds up.
.40S&W becomes important if heavy bullets are set back.
180gr bullets become important if the handloads are built too short or the bullets set back during feeding.


None of them are a problem at all, in and of themselves, in fact they offer certain advantages. The only time they become an issue is if something else goes wrong.

[Bionicrooster]

Thanks John, so I will stick with my american eagle 180 grain for now (since I just bought 350 rounds :) )

[Scubasimmons]

Thanks for the better picture John.

Everyone I know shoots and loves Glocks and have never had this problem.

I definitely plan on seeing (need to go shoot a few) if they are the right gun for me when the time comes to purchase.

[Greg with a Glock®]

Very interesting thread, I commend Dash (mabuhay) and the rest giving some great insight.

My thoughts are: if you don't follow the manual, you will have problems. I can understand the passion for reloading, but some guns eat certain types of ammo compared to other guns. I only shoot Glocks in .40S&W, whether for range time, training or competition and used various ammo brands. As far as reloads, yes teflon is not readily available here in the US; but I've used "reputable" reloads on my Glocks with no problems at all.

Just want to add my two cents.

[Alleykat]

Is this problem of unsupported chambers in the .40 and .45s only? I've noticed my G29 has a fully supported chamber; I checked that when I first got it. But it seems that if Glock can do it for the 10mms, why should it be so hard to do it for all?


How about posting a pic of that G29's barrel, with a cartridge chambered? I've never seen a Glock factory barrel that was "fully supported." I shoot a G20, but went with a Lonewolf barrel, as I get more reloads out of my brass with the aftermarket barrel's tighter chamber.

[Kermit]

I blew up my Glock 21c w/ some questionable quality reloads too. I was pulling chunks of plastic from my hands and cheek for a week :eek:
Glock fixed the pistol -- that i ended up selling soon after -- and now years later, I'm contemplating picking up a 21sf -- I've seen a lot of guns blow up -- I'm really not worried about blowing up another Glock ;)

[Kurt+P+]

Here's a picture of my Glock 20 barrel with a 10mm round shoved inside it. You can definitely see an exposed area on the back of the round. It's not easy to see with the naked eye but it shows up pretty well on digital camera. I assume this is what they mean by "not fully supported."

[TEDDY]

kurt: all I see is a hairy finger. my computer must enlarge some types.
I believe you can get just as much from a 180 gr 45 as you can from the 40S&W.and much less pressure.It seems only 40s have this problem.:rolleyes: