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View Full Version : Need help: who makes good rifle 3/8ths dovetail front sights...


Jim March
December 23, 2008, 02:23 AM
...preferrably fiber optic that are cut abnormally low?

As in 3/16ths measured from the top of the dovetail cut?

Here's my situation:

A few years ago while living in the Seattle area, I had a local gunsmith who advertised as a sights specialist cut the stock front sight off my Ruger New Vaquero 357 and put a custom dovetail front on. I knew that later I was likely to play with alternate front sights, like fiber optic, maybe an XS-type white-dot/tritium, etc. So I asked the guy to cut a "standard dovetail" on the mount.

Silly me. I figured since it was a handgun, he'd cut a HANDGUN dovetail. And when I asked him what dovetail, he said "standard, easy to get".

So for freakin' years now I've looked at gun show/shop front sights. All had dovetails too small. So on a hunch, I tried comparing my front sight to various rifles at a gun show. Bingo. It's a rifle front sight.

I look at various catalogs. Rifle front sights with a 3/8ths dovetail are common as fleas - but sizes start WAY past the 5/32nds I have now (dialed in for 135gr/140gr loads) or the 3/16ths I could go to (probably requiring a switch to 158gr or so). At least with things like white/gold beads, a fiber optic or tritium insert.

Again: I don't know if I'm measuring right...these measurements are vertical height of the front sight as measured from the top of the current base, not counting the dovetail's height.

Does anybody have any clue where I can get a quality rifle sight on a 3/8ths dovetail that's that low? I'm told it's probably in the Brownell's print catalog which I don't have - their website is 100% useless for any sort of search.

Sigh.

kraigwy
December 23, 2008, 02:51 AM
I dont know about fiber optics, but I have some plastic I used in sights when I did a bit of gun smithing. I got it from brownell for just such purpose. If a customer wanted a red (or other color insert) in their sight, I'd just chuch the barrel in the milling machine, cut the dove tail based on what size they wanted, and fitted the plactic gluing it in with super glue. It really isnt much of a project after the dove tail is cut. I would fit the plastic to the dove tail, glue it in, the trim off the excess.

You might check with brownell again for the inleting material and put it in your self if you already have the dove tail cut.

It certainly wont cost much and if it don't suit you you can dig it out and be no worse off then you are now.

Jimro
December 23, 2008, 02:52 AM
There are a couple front sights that are .240 inches, still slightly higher than what you want, but close.

But it seems the only way to get what you want is to get one of these bases http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=125848 and get one of these blade inserts http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=947968 and machine down the blade until you get the front sight you want. When you are done you can solder or epoxy the blade into the base permanently.

Hope this helps.

Jimro

kraigwy
December 23, 2008, 02:55 AM
Did I misread your post. I thought you said he cut the dove tail in the sight blade. If not, disregard the above post.

If the dove tail is cut in the barrel, or sight base and you need an insert, then its just a matter of getting a rifle sight and cutting it down. Let me check on some options and I'll get back with you.

Did you see this one:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=13193&title=DOVETAIL%20FRONT%20SIGHT

Jim March
December 23, 2008, 03:26 AM
Here's what I have:

http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/vaqhawk.jpg

This thing is interesting:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=125848

...because with a bit of filing/drilling I could shove any number of things into that slot...a cut-down AR15 front sight for God's sake :).

I also note Marbles has a "filler piece" for 3/8ths dovetails meant to fill in gaps in dovetails no longer used. I could take that, drill into it from the top and tap it for a shotgun screw-in type. Might even be able to rig it for elevation adjustability?

This sort of thing:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=13193&title=DOVETAIL%20FRONT%20SIGHT

...is WAY too tall for this application.

Sarge
December 23, 2008, 03:26 AM
Hi Jim,

Welcome to the Sporting Goods Section at the Tower of Babble- AKA the sight pages of Brownell's website.

3/8 front sights are, as you noted, rifle sights. This sight is about as close as you're going to get to what you want-


http://www.marblearms.com/frontSights.html

You'll have to measure the total height of your existing sight- which means removing it from the barrel. This sucks but it will give you a frame of reference for future sight mods.

Next measure the width of the base to get your "W" dimension. This dimension isn't nearly as critical because it only determines how much base sticks out on either side of the dovetail. Each manufacturer has presets for this that determine whether it is a 'medium' (M) or 'wide' (W) ramp. The important thing is that you get close to your current width and that the base itself works with your ramp width.

Typically, the only other dimension is a fraction which denotes the diameter of the bead, such as 1/16, 3/32 etc. This won't apply to fiber optic beads as they are usually all of one width per manufacturer.

When you get your existing front sight out, look at the bottom of the base. It may be stamped '31M' or some such. That 31 means it is .310 high and the M means it is a medium width. If you got that, you're home free ;)

I order a few front sights from Brownells every year, so I have become fluent in their particular dialect of Front Sight Gibberish. If you get your dimensions PM them to me and I'll get you pointed at what you need. BTW your set-up offers an excellent means of fine tuning the windage adjustment on a fied sight revolver.

Jim March
December 23, 2008, 04:15 AM
Sarge, I appreciate the help and yeah, I fully understand the windage implications :).

Here's the part I don't understand:

The Marbles link you cite says "Marble’s® Contour Front Sights are available in two widths for ramps or barrels along with various heights from .260 inches to .570 inches."

IF that .260 includes the dovetail height, then I'd probably be good for 158gr loads or close to it. Which I could live with.

Right now I have a measurement from the top of the custom base (where the screws are visible in the picture) to the top of the front sight. It's now 5/32nds. I figure 3/16ths would take me to about a 158gr load.

The dovetail I have appears to be on the "shallow" side. I'm assuming I'll have to hand-file whatever sight I end up with to fit perfectly, but that's OK, that's just time and an Arkansas knife hone stone in front of the TV.

Sarge
December 23, 2008, 05:44 AM
You're welcome Jim... you have to measure the height of the whole sight, including the dovetail itself. Looky here (http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/579603126.jpg). I don't know any way you can get an accurate sight height measurement w/o mic'ing it top to bottom.

I've looked at that pic a time or two when you posted it, and the dovetail does look shallow. My caveat is that I haven't had my eyes calibrated lately, so I could be wrong. The good news is that almost all sights have ample material for fitting to cuts on the max end of the spectrum. You'll have plenty to accommodate one that's a little under in any direction.

I usually order 2-3 front sights at a time; you can't have too many but you can have too few, especially if you are fitting to an oddball or off-axis dovetail.

Jim March
December 23, 2008, 12:55 PM
If the moron had JUST done a typical 1911 dovetail none of this would be an issue...ARG!

Sarge
December 24, 2008, 12:55 AM
Heck Jim, I'd specify the 3/8 dovetail if I was having it done. You get a much wider variety of sight options.

About 30 years ago I shortened a .357 Cattleman, mounted a shorty ramp (for a 94 Winchester) and a Sourdough (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=20507) front sight. A little tweaking and some file work got it 'on' a gallon jug at 100 paces, with the then-popular Federal 158 JSP .357 load. It was a super-handy little woods gun and one of many I wish I'd hung onto; your Ruger reminds me of it in many ways.

Only thing I'd do different this time is have it cut into the barrel, ala Freedom (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gunblast.com/images/Freedom_NewSight/MVC-364F.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gunblast.com/Freedom_NewSight.htm&usg=__xuWQBppEtISelRMUyi1KFpYHCsw=&h=480&w=640&sz=28&hl=en&start=66&um=1&tbnid=iKtHZ6hwIlBE7M:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drevolver%2Bdovetail%2Bfront%2Bsight%26start%3D54%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN) or Dave Clements. (http://www.clementscustomguns.com/custom/images/jun30_05.jpg)

Jim March
December 24, 2008, 01:37 AM
Heck Jim, I'd specify the 3/8 dovetail if I was having it done. You get a much wider variety of sight options.

In this height range? I don't think so!

Starting from a 1911 dovetail (on the base I have now) as used on, say, a Kimber, I'd have a LOT more options.

The Sourdough you link to is too tall, as just one example.

I do agree regarding the dovetail cut into the barrel, esp. with a 357 like mine with lots of "meat" to cut into. That would have put me into the sweet spot for rifle sight heights. Too late now, I'd have unsightly screw-holes :(.