What is the smallest pistol caliber you would carry with you in bear country?

[Super-Dave]

I am not talking about dealing with grizzly bears or polar bears. I mean just every day black bears.

My friend claims that carrying a 9mm with 147 grain fmj is sufficient for black bears. I claim the very least should be .45 acp 230 grain fmj.

Is 9mm fmj sufficient? Is .45 acp fmj sufficient?

I have toyed with the idea of 147 grain in .357 sig.

I am not talking about hunting the bear, I mean if you get attacked while your rifle is not in reach.

If none of theses are acceptable, in your opinion what is the absolute smallest pistol caliber you would carry in bear country?

[freakshow10mm]

10mm or 357 Mag is my minimum.

[hogdogs]

.22lr ruger.... Hey you asked what is the smallest I would carry in bear country. There are squirrels in bear country too:D:rolleyes:.
Smallest I would carry to use on attacking bears is a .45acp but would prefer .45colt or so...
Brent

[ƒORTE]

This is the question I wanted addressed a little while ago. I don't have a 10mm and won't get my .357 til after I get back from alaska. I have a .45 and wanted to know if .45super or +P would suffice at protection. Didn't really get an answer. I think those commenting thought I was hunting bears... My opinion, any gun is better than clacking two sticks together. Take a decent sized knife as well. And KNOW your surroundings.

[luvsasmith]

45 LC/410 revolver

[hogdogs]

I would venture to say that at the distance of self defense scenario a .45acp placed well will do plenty of damage. Any size round that misses the key points of impact is equal to the 2 sticks you mention clacking together... i hate to hear that any animal has this super thick skull etc... I know of a rancher that raises bison and he uses a .22lr to dispatch them for slaughter.
I use a pellet rifle to dispatch wild hogs for slaughter. I am just pointing out that a well placed shot is crucial and paramount to caliber, velocity, energy or even ballistic co-efficient...
Brent

[JohnKSa]

Daniel Boone killed a lot of bears with a 127gr ball fired at black powder velocities.

I wouldn't like to have to defend myself with a pistol against a bear, but bears aren't as bullet proof as the average internet expert believes they are.

[w_houle]

Depends on how manly you are feeling... http://www.swissminigun.com/gallery_steel.html
:eek: :D

[Sarge]

I've carried either a 1911 loaded with 230 ball, or a SP101 loaded with 200 grain hardcast .357 mags. This was in Alaska no less, and while neither would be my first choice for huge bears, they were what I had along and I was certain they'd beat a 'pocket full of dreams' about the .454 Alaskan I'll buy one of these days.

My plan for discouraging things that can eat me is to start shooting early, shoot lots and aim for the brain or spine as much as possible.

[RLFD5415]

I once hit a 200lb female with 4 shots from a 45-70 before she quit running. Twice in the lungs, 1 heart shot and 1 neck shot. I load my 405g Hornady's to 1800 fps, so I wasn't throwing spitballs. After that experience, I'm not sure I would recommend a pistol for much more than ******* off a bear. Grizzly, Polar, Black, White, whatever.

[Playboypenguin]

Smallest would be .45acp but I would prefer to have a .45colt or .44mag with me.

[bclark1]

As with all these hypotheticals, whether it's bears, bank robbers, deer, insurgents, automobile parts, etc., the answers are "what you've got" and "what you can shoot." If you don't have the .357/10mm, then .45 or 9mm is what will do.

Few news articles I recall include: a man lung-ing a bear that was attacking his dog with a .22 rimfire , they found it piled up some hours later; a man who killed a brown bear with a knife after he lost his rifle in an attack while hunting; and another guy killing a bear who was attacking his kids - by smashing the bear's noggin with a log. Then, to RLFD5415's point, we hear about bears (and other animals) soaking up ridiculous punishment and keep rolling.

We don't want to be in either of those situations - stuck with nothing substantial to defend ourselves, or facing superbear. But in those extreme instances, you've got to believe that your clock is just up, or it's not. In the vast majority of instances, I'd say most popular centerfire service rounds are adequate medicine. Yes, there's a chance a bear skull might deflect a smaller bullet. Yes, there's a chance you will lack vital penetration, especially if you carry HPs. Yes, if I was going, I'd bring the .44 mag as a sidearm, because it's there. But there's no use second-guessing with what you've got, and a 5 hits with a trusty .45 is better than no hits with a new magnum.

As a disclaimer, I've never hunted bear, some day hopefully, but I think some common-sense analysis always benefits these scenario-based questions.

[alloy]

i dont walk to the condo dumpster after dark without a firearm. we got a bad black bear problem and they arent afraid of people, they stare at my doberman off the front balcony(eye level) and eat the azalea bushes and ******* at the end of the steps while she barks from 25/30 feet. right around twilight/dusk...later they bang at the dumpster door and drag trash out of my pickup...a general nuisance.
here they are protected, they flourish, and they grow more and more friendly.:rolleyes:

but this is usually more prevalent during the spring.

[Dearhunter61]

Since the only other pistol I own is a .22

[HiBC]

Is there some controversy over which manstopper calibers are "best"Seems some think the 9 is inadequate because it is small bore and the 9 lovers say a .45 lacks penetration but in general they are in the zone for people stoppers.No one feels terribly overgunned in an SD situation with any common SD cartridge.In an SD round,too much penetration is bad.

This is the class of cartridge being discussed.

All of these handguns for use on humans are popular.
So,people want to feel better about being in bear country carrying them.
You can do what you want.
I know what it was like to hear my wife scream don't let the bear bite me again.I know what it was like to kill him.I know what it is like to be 200 river miles from the nearest road .
I know what it is like to stand squared off with the bear and put a 12 ga slug,which is a 400 gr projectile at 1200 fps midline center in a bear's mouth and had him go down and get right back up again.
You see,that was one of those moments where I dsicovered a disconnect between my expectations and reality.
I wanted a bigger gun.

You do whatever you want.

[HiBC]

To answer your question,what would Ross Seyfred or Elmer Kieth carry?
Ross was a world champ combat shooter with a 1911,but I'll bet either Ross or Elmer would agree that a heavy loaded Ruger single action in .45 Long Colt or .44 Magnum with heavy hard cast Kieth bullets would be on the short list of good choices.Of course,the DA's have advantages,but a 4 5/8 SA Blackhawk carries easy and works every time. They don't cost much.

[22-rimfire]

My minimum would be 22LR as that is what I might be more likely to have with me. But if I chose a handgun for this purpose, it would be a 357 mag or 41 mag revolver. A 45 or 44 is just fine too.

I bet the father of the 8-year old from Boca Raton FL would have liked to have had either with them during the August attack in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. It happened near the trailhead for the Rainbow Falls Trail up Roaring Fork above Gatlinburg. The father and son involved were lucky and received minor wounds (stitches and staples to repair) and were treated and released from the hospital after the attack.

It appears that the Smoky Mt NP has modified some of their rules and postings about bears. Attacks are up along with the black bear population. More problems expected. They are recommending bear spray be carried by back country hikers/campers. No guns yet....

[rem870hunter]

357 mag with 158 gr. hot handloaded jsp or 45 acp with 185 gr. silvertips.

[jhgreasemonkey]

When I was doing a bit more hiking I carried my .45 acp and knew several other hikers that carried the same caliber. I use a .44 mag for my woods carry gun nowdays because that is the most suitable gun I have. I'm not particularly concerned with bears around here though they tend to be smaller and always have turned and run away in my encounters. I am more concerned with stumbling across tweakers than bears.

[mavracer]

a 147 9mm is a very good penatrator not my first choice, but I'm not real worried about blackbear so I'd probably just carry whatever I'm packing at the time.

[clem]

.44 Mag.

[MeekAndMild]

.44 magnum using .44 specials.:D

[Dr. Strangelove]

Don't these threads get fun? I'd say forget about the pistol and get yourself a spooky gunship to fly close air support. There are even some based in North Florida, so that saves some on the gas... 20mm Gatling guns and a 105mm howitzer make even your polar bears and grizzlies want to think twice about stealing your trail mix...

Hey, I'm just having fun; not trying to put you down. I moved to Georgia from Florida (Bradenton) six months ago and I spent quite a bit of time in the woods and on the water while I was there. I ran into plenty of four legged and two legged critters in the woods and can't say I was ever worried about the four legged kind. Mostly the two legged variety was satisfied with a wave or an exchange of pleasantries and the four legged ones, well, they didn't stick around long enough to get acquainted.

I don't normally carry a gun with me in the woods unless I'm hunting but just for fun here are my thoughts as a former Florida resident. (I'm assuming from your post you are asking about Florida specifically)

You can't open carry in Florida unless on private land, so it's not like you can walk through the woods "man on point" style. If a bear gives you time to take off a pack and get a pistol out you've got time to go the other way. Sure, you can conceal carry as long as you aren't on National Forest land. Do you really want to hike in clothes to conceal a .44 mag or some such gun in 95 degrees and 98% humidity? Have at it but not me.

A couple of people a year get shark bit swimming, diving, etc. in Florida. Does that mean I drag my 48 special AB Biller speargun with me every time get past my knees in the water? No. (By the way, it's a lot of fun, try spearfishing sometime. Sort of like shooting a rifle underwater. At fish.)

Having been a Florida resident for 7 years, I can honestly say I would worry more about a trip to the quickie mart than a hike in the woods. I've run into gators, far too many snakes to mention, sharks, moray eels, (not in the woods) and some very curious barracuda (not the car), but none have hassled me for money or broken into my jeep. (Well, the neighbors cat did pee in it one time..)

Anyway, to keep this on topic Super-Dave, I can choose between a 9mm, .22LR, and a .44 caliber blackpowder as pistols I actually own. I'd go for the 9mm, because, well, if anything can soak up 15 9mm rounds and keep going, I guess it deserves to eat me. I'd like to think I would be tasty.

Super-Dave, I'm just bustin' your stones, but as a former Florida resident, enjoy that beautiful state but don't worry about the bears. If one attacks suddenly, unless you're walking around all combat patrol style, you're not going to have much of a chance anyway. But do watch yourself on the way to/from the woods. Lots of crazies down there.

[HiBC]

And I have seen a great big draft horse dropped dead with a 22 lr revolver.It had a badly broken leg.
Most of Europe thought the .32 ACP was a great police round.James bond thought it excessive.The first application of the .22 was a SD handgun.Outside of wars,the .22 has probably killed more men than any other round.People aren't bullet proof.Shoot me with a .22 short and I'll probably go off and die without a hospital.
So why is the advice to carry something with a .4 in it's caliber designation?
.25 pocket autos are so much nicer to carry,and they are cute!!
After all,a rapier used to work just fine.
Or did serious people with real experience say"I want a bigger gun because this maniac on PCP...
I'm taking the man's question serious.
I'm no great expert,but I'm not armchair.Hunting calm,relaxed bears over bait a person can be patient and pick the shot.The bear doesn't know what hit him.
I'll suggest a number of these opinions are coming from folks who have never killed anything with their 9 mms or .45s.I'll suggest fewer have killed a bear with a 9mm or 45.I'll suggest fewer still have killed a PO'd bear that was tearing up a human being.
We have now arrived at the definition of armchair experts.

Step into this scene.You are in Alaska.A 200 lb Black bear slams into your and his teeth are scraping your skull (or he is on top of your wife tearing her face off)

Up till this point,it doesent matter what you are carrying.Its about carrying.That WAS the priority.
Now,bloody screaming terror and violence,what do you want your right hand to find? Stopping it is the priority.Oh,gosh,that was her cheekbone and eye he just tore out.
Yeah,I'd say a PA-63 in 9X18 Makarov is nice and light,cheap,and what is most important,obviously,its not one of those wheel guns.Cant carry one.Uncool.Has to be a semi-auto.

[Buzzcook]

Do they grow black bears real big in Florida?
Those times I'm in bear country I'm carying a .30-06 because I'm deer hunting. So there ya go. I also very rarely see bears so just hiking I only carry the .22.
If I thought a bear was going to chew off my leg (that seems to be the only kind of bear in the hunting forum) I'd like a .45 for bears larger than 200 pounds. I suspect 9mm would do fine for bears smaller than that.

[Swampghost]

.44 Mag first, 1911 second and 9mm. third.

Buzzcook, we used to have a fairly decent population over the entire state. I think that the cattle ranchers doomed most of them and we're just down to a few up in the NW.

[Super-Dave]

How about .357 sig using 147 grain fmj? I think it could provide adequate penetration.

I know what would be neccesary is a round delivered in the right spot that has adequate penetration.

I guess the real question should be:

"Does 9mm fmj or .45 acp fmj provide adequate penetration when shooting a black bear?"

[RLFD5415]

In my example above, all four rounds exited the opposite side and produced significant wound channels. So, I'm not sure penetration is the answer. For predators you need stopping power and you need it now. Carry the largest caliber you are comfortable with.

I now leave the .45 acp home as I don't consider it adequate in bear country anymore. I might add the that this particular bear was initially shot over bait. She just had a very strong will to live.

Sure, you might kill 8 of 10 bears with a .22. But, your not really carrying protection for that are you? You are really concerned with that bear that is extremely ****** and has decided to attack, or mistook you for a meal. Either way, do you really want to go wading in to that fight with light caliber pistol? You can shoot a human with a rubber band and he will likely lay down and die. Large predators are still wired for survival, and will fight long after the outcome should have been decided.

[.41 rem mag fan]

S&W .41 rem mag Mountain gun with 250 gr. Federal cast cores:eek: I don't carry this hunting but if I am packing an animal out, it is on my hip. I also like it around when I am fishing in some of the off the beaten path places here in Montana.

[bcarver]

Ruger Blackhawk .41 4 5/8" barrel with solid copper loaded to max and a good crimp.

[MeekAndMild]

And I have seen a great big draft horse dropped dead with a 22 lr revolverOK, I take back my opinion about the .44 special. From now on I'll carry a 5.5 mm Velo Dog if I can (1) find a pistol in that caliber (2) find ammo. ;)

[akr]

.357 mag is good but in a panic situation, I'm not sure I would kill him with 5 or 6 shots with him running. I would also carry a high capacity semi with .45ACP + P.

[Double Naught Spy]

JohnKSa brings up a good point that bears are not as bulletproof as a lot of people believe. However, there is a downside to the observation that has been touched on already as well. Bears seem to have a propensity to not go down as quickly as people would like. The problem here is that if the bear does get to you before dying/dropping/being dissuaded, you will suffer injuries that will require medical attention. Even brief attacks can yield some significant wounds on people. The question is then one of how bad the injuries are and how quickly medical attention can be rendered. Wounds that might be survivable with medical attention in 1-2 hours may be not survivable if medical attention is further way.

The smallest caliber pistol you should carry in bear country, ideally, is the largest and most powerful pistol caliber you can shoot very well.

[HiBC]

DN Spy,Agreed.And if you do need it,you'll wish it was bigger.Not all bears chew on you.Most don't.You only need a gun for the ones that do.

[Jack O'Conner]

Shotgun loaded with slugs will stop just about anything. Of course, one must be prepared to prove to a Warden or jury that the killing was justified.

Jack

[Water-Man]

.357mag

[HiBC]

Respectfully,I have observed that the gentleman who posted this thread has only mentioned calibers typical to semi-autos.
With few exceptions,the sort of cartridges I believe will break the junction of the shoulders and spine (bone) are heavy revolver cartridges.
Its funny,a +P+ 38 SPL isn't that much less than a 9mm,but nobody is putting it on the list.I think its an auto thing.
So,there is the Desert Eagle,.44Automag,Widley in 45 Win Mag.
Those are what you would need in an auto to equal a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Long Colt,300 gr bullet at 1300 fps,per Ross Seifred.
But those autos are all big,heavy,and unavailable/expensive.
So if you must have an auto,maybe a hot loaded 10mm but I won't call it bear defense.A big can of bear spray might be better.

[Jack O'Conner]

Any USA citizen with zero felony conviction can purchase this firearm. You must purchase correct license from BATF. Contact your local gunshop for details.

Shotgun slug will stop any bear that ever lived.

Jack

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/ithaca.jpg

[HiBC]

Hi,Jack
That is what I truly believed myself when I went to AK.That is why I had my trusty '97 full of slugs beside me when the bear put his paws down on my wife and bit her through the tent.
He was facing me square,semi erect.I put the bead on the tip of his nose and fired.He went right down.He got right back up,shaking his head.I watched the center of rotation of his neck,and shot again.That one broke his neck.The first slug took out his center lower teeth and broke up.
I'm not saying a slug is inadequate.I would recommend a harder slug.
The common dead soft slugs may not do so well against bones.

[skydiver3346]

The smallest I would consider taking with me would be a .357 mag with 180 grain bullets. Of course, a .44 mag would be preferred, but you asked for the least caliber we would take when being in the woods with black bears.

[wyobohunter]

I"ll make a short list of what I'd carry (including what I do carry) from least desireable to most.

1-pepper srpay (wife carries it)
2-44 magnum loaded heavy
3-454, 460 etc.
4-.500 S&W or 12 ga w/slugs (have both)
4-.30 cal bolt rifle
5-large bore lever gun loaded heavy (I have a 45-70)
6-Magnum rifle (I carry a .338 RUM)
7-huge elephant gun of some sort
8-common sense seasoned with a little luck plus any of #'s 1-7

To the O.P., do a search for 9mm for bear, there was a pretty decent debait on this subject...

[wyobohunter]

I'd carry a 12 ga full of slugs any day, but I hate shooting those shotgun/handgun conversions. I'd go with the longun or carry the biggest dang pistol I could handle.

[fivepaknh]

DR. Strangelove wrote:
Sure, you can conceal carry as long as you aren't on National Forest land.

I may be wrong, but I thought carrying a firearm was prohibited in national parks, not national forest. I know in NH it’s perfectly legal to carry in the White Mountain National Forest.

I think any descent SD handgun will do in a black bear attack. Especially with the smaller black bear we have in the east. It’s been pointed out that even a .12 ga slug doesn’t guarantee an immediate stop. No matter what your carrying sometimes it’ll work, sometimes it won’t. No guarantees. It’s likely that even with a .454, 45-70, or .12 ga slug you’re still going to need, at the very least, some patching up if the bear is determined. There is no magic bullet or gun. I recently saw a video on one of those “When animals attack” show where a guy merely fired his rifle in the air and scared off a charging mother grizzly.

[alloy]

from my recent checks for my own situation(i go thru both multiple times daily), national forests use the state guidelines. so here in VA it is ok concealed if you are permitted.

national parks...are a totally different thing, they use the federal law. no concealed in a national park.

[22-rimfire]

Here in TN you currently can not carry outside hunting season in National Forest land. That needs to change. As said, whether or not it is legal to carry any firearm outside of hunting season depends on State regulations.

[kraigwy]

Many years ago I took my family to Hiden Lake fishing and camping, on the kenai Penn, Sought of Anchorage. There were a couple of rather large brown bear near the camp ground but didnt seem close enough to bother much. That is until wife started diner, frying hambuger.

One of those suckers flew into camp fast as a cat and started tearing up the food box eatin' my dinner. I got between the bear and my family as wife got my small kids into the truck. I was the lenth of a picknick table from him but he was more interested in my dinner then me.

I had two 44s, A ruger black hawk and a model 29 in my hands, both loaded. Turns out as soon as wife fired up the truck he fled.

I looked at the size of that bear, and down at my 44s. I said screw this, from that time on, when I went into bear country I carried my 375 H&H.

Since, I have retired and moved back to wyoming. In my part of the state we dont have many bear and no grizzlies. The northwestern part of the state does. I do most of my back country trips on horse back. When in that area I dont normaly carry the 375 unless its hunting season. If not hunting and I am in big bear country, My 870 with slugs is what I carry. Its faster and easier to handle then the M-70 375, but I believe is just as effective at close range.

When a bear is close enough you can smell his breath, and shakes his head slinging slobber on you while he eats hot grease and hamburgers out of a frying pan, no pistol dosnt give me a safe feeling. I think there is a reason Game Wardens in NW Wyoming carry shotguns with slugs for critters and 40 cal pistols for people.

Do what you want, but if its my family I'm protecting its gonna be a shotgun w/slugs or a heavy rifle defending on weather its hunting season or not.

JMHO

[Moloch]

My weapon of choice would be the ...........field telephone! To call in artillery fire. :D

I would feel safe with my Glock 35 .40S&W, the .40 penetrates good and has plenty of power for a handgun, and I can fire it very fast.
But I would rather choose my .454 casull redhawk 8.5''. With a rifle I wouldnt go below .308.

[Sarge]

Just a point here...

The bullet you choose to fire will often have a greater effect on penetration, than the caliber of the firearm you launch it from. The .357 is a good example. There is no way I would load it with 125 JHP's in bear country; but when loaded with a hot 180-200 grain SWC or LBT, the pentration can rival many centerfire rifles when used with conventional hunting bullets.

Use your head always, and your gun when you have to.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Fivepaknh & Alloy, you are both right, I should have typed National Park land instead of National Forest. There is indeed quite a difference.

[mikejonestkd]

I carry bear spray more often in the woods than a centerfire handgun. I usually have a .22 on my hip though. We don't have grizzlies or brown bears here though..

[RLFD5415]

Not trying to be an a**, but I am curious and trying to help the OP along. Is anyone here with direct bear experience comfortable with a pistol at all. How 'bout vs. a shotgun or LC rifle given weight considerations.

[wyobohunter]

You said... "I would feel safe with my Glock 35 .40S&W, the .40 penetrates good and has plenty of power for a handgun, and I can fire it very fast.
But I would rather choose my .454 casull redhawk 8.5''. With a rifle I wouldnt go below .308."


I'd take a .308 over ANY pistol, I'd take a .270 over any .40 S&W (look at the reloading data & do the energy math, a .500 S&W loses out to a .308). That high capacity magazine will not do much good when you'd be lucky to get one shot if a bear really decides he wants you. Sometimes I carry a revolver, but if I ever needed a gun and was lucky enough to bring it to bear before the bugger was on me, I'd probably be wishing for a .460 NE to make my one shot REALLY count. Food for thought.

[chuckscap]

Springfield V16 Longslide in 45 Super (230g bonded Golden Saber HP at 1150 fps). It's what I bought it for ...

:)

Chuck