Reports from the range...

[Rob Pincus]

I thought that it might be fun to have a thread (or perhaps..forum....??) strictly for talking about the shooting we did, like the same day. (maybe this will help me to keep track of how many rounds I shoot through each gun, like you guys do.... http://www.thefiringline.com/ubb/smile.gif)

Today I ran 204 (200 blazers and 4 Hydrashoks..)rounds through one of the Realtree Glocks. Shot some pins and colored squares of paper. Checked out the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip ammo in my scout rifle, put a few rounds through some metal plates at about 75 yards, that was fun. Then hit 4 out of 5 bowling pins at about 100 yards.
Then my Stock Broker showed up and I let him shoot my LAR .50BMG.
That was it.... anybody else do any shooting?

[.]

Rob,

For a nominal fee, I'd be happy to transcribe your data onto those MTM data sheets...

[This message has been edited by Mykl (edited 10-29-98).]

[Rob Pincus]

Okay, add another 50 rounds to the RT Glock entry ;-)
The wife wanted to try it out today.

We also shot the G34. She went ot the house and I shot the 35, my Beloved sightless .22 Cadet, a german PPK in .32 (my Jam-o-matic) the USP, and a Ruger SPeed Six. I would rather shoot the 10mm all day long than two cylinders full of the .357.

About a box of ammo in each calibre, except for the PPK, I could only stand to push through two mags.


Anyone else getting to shoot?

[Kodiac]

Last night I had a chance to go out again and do some shooting. A friend of mine who owed me some money paid me back (per an agreement the ball and chain doesn't know... Ssh) in ammo. 200 rounds of .40 S&W. Cor-Bon 135s and Federal Hydras for the good stuff. The rest were Georgia Arms new loads w/Gold Dot bullets.
I went with my brother. He has a .40 Sigma but I still let him come.
My HK USP fired consistant 2 inch groups with the GA stuff and did better with the Federals. The Hydra Shok bullet is more accurate than some "Match Grade" stuff I fired. It was very consistant... Punching one inch groups. The Cor Bons were the hottest loads we had and they did 1 and 3/4th groups. I was shooting at about ten yards, standing... And on a bad knee too.
The HK performed flawlessly. How boring of it...
The Sigma was a little more interesting. It didn't like the Federals and stovepiped twice. It loved the Corbons and was shooting 4 inch groups with it. The best the Sigma did. The Sigma was warm on the GA fodder. Shooting it was amusing. You could watch the slide cycle and feed and eject... etc. But it did function. The Sigma needs hotter loads to be consistant.

I was also payed in a can of Army BALL 5.56MM NATO. But as my current Bushmaster AR is still as of yet unfired... I decided to hold off on it untill a special occasion.

[Rich Lucibella]

Kodiac-
I've become a real fan of Georgia Arms ammo. The Gold Dot bullet is as good as the best and better than most, IMHO. The prices on their stuff are affordable enough to allow one to practice with the same rounds he carries. Their 10mm offerings are hotter than other factory loads I've chrono'd.
Rich

[Rob Pincus]

I keep hearing good things about the GA 10mm, I'll have to go find some.

Any tactical drills Kodiac or just punching those tidy groups?

[ShadedDude]

You guys like GA Arms???

I have purchased 1 box of amo from them.
.41 mag, I fired 1 round, it blew the case in half and lodged the front of the case in the chamber. I never shot the other 49 rounds. Nor have I ever used any of thier bullets again.

Was this just some fluke? Do they really load better than I do?

[Rich Lucibella]

SD-
I'm talking about their factory ammo, not the reload stuff. I've not tried that. However, my chrono tests of GA in .40S&W and 10mm showed good standard deviations in velocity as compared to better known ammunition. I'll post if there's any real interest.
Rich

[Kodiac]

Georgia Arms has good stuff. Evedently the GA State Police use GA ammo for duty.

They will be offering rifle ammo of different types as they already do - but with this new MOLY coating - done in the "tumbling" process other than the less effective "spraying" process. Whatever that is.
I don't think Moly would be that great for pistols - but I have only read articles on the pistol stuff. Haven't tried it yet.

I was doing rapid draws and some speed work...
But no IPSC style stuff. I was having a hard enough time just standing on the uneven ground. (Out on a friend's farm)

[ShadedDude]

I occasionaly shoot with a guy who coats his 10mm bullets with molly in a tumbler....he swears by it.

I'm not sure if what I got was factory or reload...all I know is one was enough.

Maby I'll have to check them out once more.
Seeing that I do live in GA!

[GLV]

Remember, goverment agencies buy LOW BID. I would not use that as my criteria for buying ammo or anything else, GLV

[Kodiac]

Really GLV?
Hmmm... have you seen the new FBI .45?
Or the special 10mm MP5s in 10MM?
Those dont go cheap my friend. Neither do the CorBons, and Hydra-Shoks that many LE departments buy.

What I understand is that the guy who started GA was a trooper that had a hobby and turned it into a business.

600 dollar toilet seats dont seem cheap either http://www.thefiringline.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Rob Pincus]

Kodiac, you have managed to mention toliet seats on my thread, god bless ya!

Who wants to come up to Nashville Sunday??
(that is an invitation, at least to most of you http://www.thefiringline.com/ubb/wink.gif)

There is going to be some good style tactical shooting going on. Ex- PSD instructor will be here, and some LEOs.

Email me, if you are interested.

[Kodiac]

Dang, I would love to Rob - but I got kids and Halloween parties and just plain not enough time... Would I really drive 16 hours for a shooting match?

Yup.

[Rob Pincus]

16 HOURS? I can get all the way to Atlantic City in 15. where are you in VA ??
(besides, do you think i'd extend that invite if you guys were close ?? http://www.thefiringline.com/ubb/wink.gif)

Bought some GA 10mm at the gun show today, they had sold out of the 308 150gr before I got there, they were selling it cheap! I may get to Chrono the 10mm sunday.

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 11-01-98).]

[Rich Lucibella]

Evaluations will be welcome, Rob.
Rich

[GLV]

Kodiac, the FBI,etc are goverment agencys with unlimited budgets. State Police do not have that kind of budget, at least here in the free state of Indiana. Our state Constitution does not allow budget deficits. We cannot buy all of the goodies the feds get. GLV

[Kodiac]

I take a long lunch breaks when on the road... http://www.thefiringline.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Rob Pincus]

Okay, we had a good day at the range.

WEnt through many draw and fire drills, multiple targets, maulfunction drills. WE used snap caps and loaded eah others mags sporabdically with them.

Worked retention and disarming drills. Even waited until it got dark and did some lowlight and flashlight drills.

Shot G30, G34, G23, G35, CZ52, RT G20, USP 45, and the Colt Cadet. The other guys had Sigs and HKs and ran some rounds through my stuff.

I really like the new Ghost ring sights on the G20. Very cool.

The CZ52 was surprising reliable and felt good to shoot. Sights were high by a mile, but the gun was very consistent (the 7.62x25 also did noticably more damage to a metal plate than the 10mm 180 FMJ).

We only shot about 600 rounds, but it was an intense full day shoot. We had one guy with us who was a newbie and he learned a ton. He went from sight picture to quick draw from concealment, safely and accurately.

I know some of you guys must have shot this weekend, no?

[Kodiac]

Last night I got a call from a good friend of mine. He had put in some huge stadium type lights out at his farm... and lucky enough - it lit up the little "Range" he has there.
Needless to say, we hooked up there 30 minutes later with some Mt Dew and a couple Sub sandwiches from Blimpies... My Bushmaster and his Steyer AUG. The range only goes to 100 yards, but heck... that is plenty good enough for some informal shooting.
I brought 1000 rounds of Nato Hardball, and we went to work. A County Sheriff came by just say Howdy... He wanted to take shot with the AUG, we let him... He busted several pumpkins for us, then had to get back to work.

Stayed out till about 1AM and we had a blast.
Perfect weather for shooting. Nice and crisp - kept our barrels cool. http://www.thefiringline.com/ubb/smile.gif

The Bushmaster jammed a couple times in the first 100 rounds... but as it had never been fired before, I expected such. After that, it smoothed up a good deal, and functioned perfectly. It was shooting very accuratly - I will have to test that in detail next week.
The AUG shot great too. It's little scope didn't do that well in low light- but made up for that by BEING A STEYER http://www.thefiringline.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Steve Koski]

A neighbor, a local PD instructor, and I went to the indoor PD range a few nights ago. Two of us would face the rear whil the third set up a scenario. One shooter would back up behind a cardboard wall and be given a brief explanation, but not allowed to look. At "Go!" you solve the problem the best you can.

Some targets had knives painted on them and would advance (using the target runner system). Others were stationary.

I like this non-timed practice because you get out of the habbit of using verbal commands, taking your time to clear corners, etc. even in IDPA competition.

My favorite was when we took seven balloons and taped them in a line up the target. As the target charged you had to draw and pop all the balloons before he was on you.

Also did some draw, shoot 2 drills at 7 yds at an IDPA target. I record my times and hits so I can see if I'm getting better or worse.

[DH]

Went out to the range this morning.
Had to work out some coding frustrations.
POW! POW! POW!
Now, that felt much better.
Back to work...

[Art Eatman]

Back when God was younger and I was a kid with my first .22, I discovered how much a shooting session would relieve frustration.

Do people look at you funny when you put a magazine-cover photo in the center of your regular target? And edge away when you explain how it relieves inner tension?

And run away when it's a picture of THEM?

Question: Which is a more satisfying session, pistol or rifle? Going for speed or group-size? 100-yard bench-rest, or 350 or more at a rock?

Suggestion: Research these comparison before answering. I believe your response will be more relaxed.

:-) to all.

[Terry]

I went to the indoor range last evening to continue breaking in my Kimber LW Compact. I put 50 rounds of of the GA
230 gr Gold Dot through it. I agree with everyone else, it's a nice accurate load. Then tried to put 50 round of 185 semi-wad through the pistol. I gave up after about 30 rounds. It would shoot a couple then refuse to feed, shoot a couple and refuse to feed. Well, you get the idea.
Looks like we'll be making a trip to the gun doctor soon.

------------------

[Rob Pincus]

I played around with the Blaser today. I went from a disassembled rifle in a locked case to an assembled rifle, up the stairs and out to the deck, two 7mm Mag rounds downrange, back to the disassembled rifle into a relocked case in under 1 min 35 seconds.
The rounds were about 3 inches apart at 100 yards, each within 2 inches of the point of aim.

This rifle is great. I'd like to get the time on this drill down to under 1 minute. Maybe not what the manufacturer had in mind, but it could come in handy.

[Dan]

Went to the range and burned up 100 rnds of Blazer 165 gr .40s&w. All in my G-23. Did double tap drills from the low ready into the 10 ring of a reduced size B-27 target @ 7yds, using the isocoles stance. Not saying all went in the 10 ring but that was the plan. I shoot to keep my time under 1.5 seconds. Today showed I need to brush up on my doubles. Guess I'll just have go back again tommorow....

[Rob Pincus]

Well, dan inspired me to get up off my lazy butt and shoot a little. So I headed down to the range with my G30, Cadet and shot-too-little Clark Meltdown. After about 50 rounds through the .22 I started playing around with concealment draws with the 30 when I remembered that little Reactive Ted thread. I lumbered up to the house to get my one pristine ted and some other tools (nails, hammer, old shoe lace).

I punched a hole in ted's head and ran the string through it, looped the string around the neck of the pin and tried to nail the bottom of the Ted to a coulpe pieces of wood that were about 4 inches wide and 1/3 of inch or so thick. They were about 15 inches long. I might suggest that you nail the Ted to the planks before you put the bowling pin in there.
Anyway, I finally got him balanced (I forgot about the foam core backing I was supposed to put on the Ted, butI'll get some soon). and loaded up the cadet. A couple of test shots through the shoulder and the belly, a little shake, but no fall. Then I hit the pin and the Ted s-l-o-w-l-y fell over. not too shabby.

I reset the Ted (which was a midget BTW, I have no 50 gal drums, so it was setting on a box about 15 inches tall.). and loaded the Meltdown- WOW! the whole thing lifted into the air, the hat flew off, the shirt billowed and the Ted flew off the box. I hadn't felt like that since the first time I saw a soda can explode when hit with a centerfire rifle.
I was sold. These Teds are cool. Kinda a pain to have to reset it after every double tap (okay, almost every one...). I'll have to go get some more Teds! Thanks Guys!



------------------
-Essayons

[Kodiac]

Took my bushmaster out to the deserts of Utah in the Uinta basin... just west of Vernal.
Laid waist to some priary dog towns.
I was worried about the AR's ability to reach out and touch some thing at the very long ranges we have out here.
Using Honady's VX moly coated loads - that was not a problem. 200 rounds fired - I still need to get this rifle "dialed in" just right. I think a new scope will do the job a little better. My eyes are not what they used to be, and they could use the magnification help. Lets just call my shot results as "effective fire" and not go any further there. Ranging in the desert is a lot tougher than in the blue ridge mountains.




------------------

Kodiac
Kenetic Defence Intitute

[Kodiac]

I've been able to go out and fire at least 50 rounds a day. The Bushmaster continues to prove why they are the best. I have isolated the one magazine that causes feeding problems, and using only the 5 others, have had no jams of any type.
I have also found a new brand of ammo... they are reloads, costing only 10 bucks for a box of 50 FMJs. They are very consistant - and very clean burning. Velocity seems to be above 3000 FPS when compaired to other ammo, since I have lost my chrony some place. (UPS) The brand is called "Ultra Max" and come in Red white and mainly blue boxes. Anyone else know these ultra max loads?

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defence Institute
[email protected]

[Kodiac]

Am I the only one shooting these days?
Took a small group out for a short class on handguns - 5 adults 2 teenagers. mostly nines and 38s class work and some range work. 2 60 round courses of fire... Not a lot of shooting - but every one had a lot of fun and every one passed the course with 80% on up - so I had a pretty good group. 3 have already applied for concealed carry permits.
Makes me feel proud :)

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defence Institute
[email protected]

[JBP]

Went out to the range on Friday. Picked up some additional .223 hunting ammo from gun shop (at inflated prices) while waiting for PMC shipment from Cascade. However, did order a Ruger 10/22 Magnum. They can't even keep them in stock.

Sighted in the Contender to 50 yards then ran out of ammo. Too windy for 10/22T so I put around 200 rounds through my Mattel (I mean Hi-Point) 9mm carbine. I bad mouth the Hi-Point pistols more than anybody but I can never get over the accuracy of the carbine. One day I would like to take a Ruger 9mm carbine out to see how it compares.

[Rob Pincus]

The Muzzle Loader Hunt was a bust for Bucks, but I did shoot two Pheasant. I wouldn't recomend a DISC rifle as the perfect upland bird long arm, but it took out a hen at 20 yards and a cock at about 40. One BIG hole through the back, breast meat was unharmed.

I had a session at the range last week with the two muzzle loaders getting them sighted in. THe wife whined about the fact that we were not using scopes, but eventually she got down to 4 inch groups at 50 yards with her Knight Wolverine from the bench. My best three shot group was just under two inches from the rest and two shots within the same space offhand at 50 yards.



------------------
-Essayons

[Correia]

Kodiak, that fmj Ultramax .223 stuff is great, I've put about 300 rounds through my Bushmaster Dissipator and haven't had any problems. Accuracy has been good, and the best part is, it's cheap.
-Correia

[ShadedDude]

Art: in answer to your question....speed is more fun that groups, and 350 at a rock is much more fun that at a target. Targets just dont do the same things a rock does when hit by lead traveling at a high rate of speed.

man I gotta go shooting.

------------------

Mouse Assassins inc.

[Kodiac]

Took out my OLD Remington 514 .22 short long or long rifle single shot bolt action... this thing is older than I am... I have shot it all my life... this is the one I mentioned that is the "family gun"

Cleaned it up and lubed it, then HAD to go fire it... picked up a box of CCI Stingers - is it just ME or are the Stingers the FASTEST .22 LR rounds on the market? They seem to be faster than Vipers or MiniMags, etc.

That old 514 is FREAKY ACURATE! Shoots straighter than a LAZER BEAM! I guess maybe that it i snot the guns inherant accuracy, but the fact I have shot it SOOO much, I can hit with it easier than pulling up my socks.

And since my knee is healed up now, I have been ALL OVER the western Colorado mountains... Even stopped in and visited my old police academy... Ah man, it is GOOD to be HOME!

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defence Institute
[email protected]

[Rob Pincus]

Out of sheer boredom I loaded up a couple of mags and shot one of my STC 10/22s out the back door today at some old targets about 80 yards away. I was loading the mags while on business calls and shooting inbetween, though I did shoot a few shots while on hold during an especially boring call.

Art,
I generally have to agree with SD, nothing is more boring than standing stationary in front of a bulls-eye target firing endlessly towards the center.


------------------
-Essayons

[Rob Pincus]

My training partner came over today and we spent about 5 hours out at the range. I shot G23, 34, and 30, USP45, Colt Cadet, CZ52, and Mustang. About 600 rounds total. He fired about 400 rounds of 9mm through his 228, hi-power and P7. He shot the CZ and the cadet as well.

WE started with a little drill that he just loves and frustrates the crap out of me. Start with a large piece of blank paper (the back of a silohuette works perfectly) fire a shot into it and then try to put a second shot through the same hole. Continue with thos two shot groups all around the paper. WE start that drill at about 5-7 feet and step back a pace or so with each new mag.

Then we set up some paper plates on sticks at varying hieghts and ranges and double tapped at them for a while. WE then went to 4x4 sheets of colored paper, with the non-shooter calling out the color to be double tapped. At this point we started including snap-caps in each other's mags for malfunction drills.

we ended up by doing some reaction drills with a timer while shooting at tactical teds and bowling pins (I still haven't perfected my reactive teds). I discovered a few weeks ago that if you paint your Teds a dark color after each string of shots you can lift up the clothing and see exactly where you shots hit, then repaint over the worn spots. It is much easier than any other method I have used in the past to mark previous shots. Just make sure you use a dark color (we used brown and green).

I was averaging 1.20-1.30 from hands up to one shot in the kill zone with a strong side belt holster and a jacket for concealment. Times didn't vary much with the types of weapons. Double taps added about .20-.25 seconds for the extra shot.

While we had the timer out I loaded up a few mags for my sightless Colt Cadet and stood about 10 feet from one of the 5 inch paper plates. From a random beep start at low ready my best time was 10 hits in 1.56 seconds. The other two times I did it were right around 1.7 seconds.

The last shots of the day were at coke cans thrown underhanded from behind the shooter. If you try this, be sure to throw then level, like an underhanded fast pitch, so as not to make the shooter point the muzzle up into the air to track the can.

A good day at the range, my wife even came out an shot a bit at the plates in he annoying and humbling way. That is, mind-numbingly slow and with uncanny accuracy.

------------------
-Essayons

[Rob Pincus]

Wanted to shoot this afternoon, but it is cold and drizzling, solution: Put a new T-shirt on Tactical Ted and shoot at 75 yards from the porch.

I pulled out the RT Glock and fired 5 shots, wihtout any ranging shots, etc....

1 hit. low right.

Walked back up to the porch (by now not caring that it was raining), and tried again, POA a little higher.

3 hits. 1 low. 2 basically center mass.

Then I said, "to hell with this silliness" and broke out the CAR and loaded 20 rounds.

12 for 12 CM hits and and a bunch of head shots. It is hard to pick out where the little .223s punch new holes in the plastic head, even when repainted.

I wish it weren't raining.

------------------
-Essayons

[Kodiac]

Took my 5 year old out with the .22 yesterday. I also brought my 8 year old sister in law as well.
Kade was excited to go. He couldn't wait to get to my favorite shooting spot up in the mountains.
McKenna was unsure about this, but was curious to see what the buzz was about. She got into the spirit of things pretty quik.
I had Kade shooting pretty good. He was able to hit the mountain each shot when we started. By the time I ran out of shells he was hitting the milk jugs! A father can have no prouder moment!
McKenna shot very well right from the start. She is a Ballerina as is all the girls in the family... but by the time we were done - she became a shooter too... Keeping very tight track of who's turn it was. All that shooting fun and education... for a $2.99 box of .22s.
Best investment I ever made

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
[email protected]

[Kodiac]

My wife and I went out with our pistols...
I wasn't doing too well - my new contacts I just got a couple hours earlier made things hard to focus on at the time.
My 50 rounds of 135gr CorBons only mostly found there mark.
My brides 9mm Kahr shot much more true than my HK. She has ribbed me non stop since.
(50 rounds of 115 grain CorBons)
That was fun... NOT.

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
[email protected]

[Rob Pincus]

Had a marathon session today. Myself, my normal partner and a couple of friends, one of whom is an operator in Europe and one is prior mil and is a former quick draw champion in CAS (Ray Cantrell, if anyone is into CAS and knows him..).

Anyway, we started at about 11:30am or so and went till 5:00pm. forgot about lunhc. Best session in a long time. Lots of the standard drills (as per previous posts in this thread) and lots of Exec. Prot. team drills.

One new one to add for everyone:

Set up two small paper plates (5 inch ones, or whatever, accoridng to skill level) about 6-8 feet apart from one antoher at chest level.

Place a piece of string or stick or something a the midway point between the plates. 5-7 feet out.

Load one round in the chamber and one in your mag. Load two rounds in your spare mag.

Stand about 5-7 feet in front of one plate, with your back towards it, hand on your belt buckle.

At the buzzer (or when your buddy says "go!" Turn and double tap first plate.

As you execute your mag change move across the stick/string to get in front of the other plate. (DON"T TRIP!)

Double tap the second plate.

Penalize yourself 1 full second for each miss.

Good times are under 7 seconds with *full* concealment (ie- with your jacket on and realistic weapon/holster position/condition.)

I used a kydex IWB or a Galco CCP (depending on pistol) with a spare mag in my left back pocket, with an untucked shirt concealing. Best times were 4.85 with one miss (result 5.85) or 5.53 no misses.

standard disclaimer: don't shoot yourself or your friends trying this. Don't try it until you are ready. When yoiu are ready, do it "dry" a couple times first to be sure.

------------------
-Essayons

[Rich Lucibella]

In the interests of participation, I'm going to lock this down and encourage anyone to start a new thread with the same title...those with slower modems have a hard time downloading real long threads.

Commendations to Rob for starting it. This should be an ongoing thread...we'll just close it out and renew from time to time.
Rich
ps: Range time today was an IDPA match using my Glock 29...great fun!