Long action caliber help me decide

[Deer Buster]

I'v decided to re BBL my M70 Fetherwieght currently a 270 . I'd like to make it my primary hunting rig & I preffer heavier bullet's for moose .So far i'm really leaning on 280 rem my other options being .
the venerable 30 06
8mm 06
338 06
35 whelen
Wish I were rich wouldn't have to decide i'd own them all . I'v also decided on a Broughton BBL . Any of you have any experiences with the in terms of delivery time . Heard nothing but good things about them so far .

[dipper]

Wish I were rich wouldn't have to decide i'd own them all . I'v also decided on a Broughton BBL . Any of you have any experiences with the in terms of delivery time . Heard nothing but good things about them so far

Broughton barrels are excellent and a good choice.
I don't know delivery times at the moment but a few months ago, there was a wait.

I would think either the 30-06 or 35 Whelen would be a good choice---the 35 Whelen can be a darn accurate cartridge in a good rifle.


Dipper

[cole k]

If’n it was me I’d keep the .270 and buy a 35 Whelen or a 9.3x62.
If you must keep to 1 rifle I guess the .280 is the way to go.
But I’m not sure that there is any thing that a 7mm caliber 175 grain Partition can do that a .277 caliber 160 grain Partition can not do.

[Jimro]

Hmmm...

A 30-06 will do it all, but the 338-06 or 35 Whelen would give me more confidence hunting moose in bear country.

If you don't handload then the 30-06 is the clear winner. So many premium factory loads that just aren't available in other calibers.

Jimro

[Swampghost]

My friend in Maine uses a 30-06. He's also a hermit and a Viet era sniper. I want to get up there and bag my MOOSE!

Most protein per pound of any animal according to one source, one of the best tasting according to another.

[petru]

my top choice would be the .280 Remington shooting 175 grain bullets for moose. Now the 30-06 will do just as well and ammo is more plentiful and a little less expensive but having said that I really like the .280 better.

I do not like bigger calibers as I have found they really do not kill any quicker or deader. Lets face facts we are often talking about less than 1/10 of an inch difference in diameter which is meaningless.

The bigger calibers kick harder, are more expensive to buy and contrary to gun writer myth peneterate often less well than the long heavy smaller diameter bullets like the .280 with the 175 grain pills. To get the same peteration in the 3006 you would have to go to at least the 220 grain bullets and they kick way more. Getting the same petetration with the 338 and you get into at least a 300 grain bullet, ouch!

I have shot moose with the 7x57 with 175 grain bullet which is less powerfull than the .280 Rem and had no trouble killing them or Elk for than matter. I shot a bear and he fell over and never moved. With this type of performance I never felt the need to go big bore.

[ringworm]

338-06

[taylorce1]

I wouldn't re-barrel to the .280 it would be a marginal gain over the .270 Win. The only thing that you can do with the .280 is step up 15 grains in bullet weight to the 175 grain in .284 vs the 160 in the .277 caliber. There is nothing that magical about a 7mm bullet that .007" in diameter and 15 grains of bullet will kill a moose any faster than what you can do now with a properly placed bullet. I had a .280 and while I did like it, there was no significant gain over my .270 so now my BIL owns that rifle and uses it to hunt everything.

I wouldn't re-barrel your rifle either a .270 Win in a feather weight is a great mountain rifle. Easy to carry and has adequate range and power to take down even your moose without unnecessary recoil. Besides that it will probably be cheaper just to buy a new rifle anyway than to pay for all the gun smith work. With $600-700 being the norm for a barrel change with action blue printing, not including refinishing of the metal.

Anything you get based off of .30-06 cartridge it will be pretty much necessary to hand load if it is larger than .30 cal. The .338-06 is just barely better than a wild cat and the .35 Whelen isn’t extremely popular and the most common load I’ve found at stores that carry it is the 200 grain Remington Core Lokt. While I can’t think of any manufactures building a .338-06 other than Cooper IIRC, Remington and Ruger still offers a .35 Whelen or did in the last couple of years. Another option to look at is a Ruger Hawkeye or Browning BLR in .358 Win or .338 Federal as both would have plenty of power for Moose, but again you really need to hand load for these cartridges.


http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Whelen&osCsid=23934b7777fd23d1c1ab778e8875ca9c

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hawkeye

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_58_126/sort/3a/page/1

[dipper]

I do not like bigger calibers as I have found they really do not kill any quicker or deader. Lets face facts we are often talking about less than 1/10 of an inch difference in diameter which is meaningless.

It's not diameter that is so important it is weight---both the 30-06 and Whelen can shoot HEAVIER bullets than the .270 and .280.

The bigger calibers kick harder,

TRUE.

are more expensive to buy and contrary to gun writer myth peneterate often less well than the long heavy smaller diameter bullets like the .280 with the 175 grain pills.

False---tell the people that hunt Africa that---driven at proper velocities with proper bullet choice, heavier bullets penetrate better on tough game.

To get the same peteration in the 3006 you would have to go to at least the 220 grain bullets and they kick way more.

Why? What's wrong with the 180 grain in 30-06??

Getting the same petetration with the 338 and you get into at least a 300 grain bullet, ouch!

:confused:

I have shot moose with the 7x57 with 175 grain bullet which is less powerfull than the .280 Rem and had no trouble killing them or Elk for than matter. I shot a bear and he fell over and never moved. With this type of performance I never felt the need to go big bore.

I'm sure elephant have been killed with a 30-06 but I wouldn't use one for hunting them.

I guess you are not from the Elmer Kieth and Whelen school of thought --- you feel smaller is better.

Dipper

[kraigwy]

Maybe I missed something, why can't you use a 270 on moose. Worse yet, why would one take a M-70 Featherweight in 270 and convert it to anything else. If you dont like the M-70 FWT, you can sell it for enough to buy dern near anything you want.

I think, and this is My Opinion, I'd buy a mauser action and build what ever you deside on and keep the FWT in tack. But thats just me.

Still, I fail to see why the 270 isnt big enough for moose. Its taken a heck of alot of moose and elk. Elk being tougher.

To me, the Model 70 Featherweight is the finest hunting rifle ever made. I dont have one in 270 (wish I did) but I do have one in 257 Rbts. I wouldnt let it go for anything. Just wished I'd bought the pair, they had a 270 FWT with my 257 when I got it, been cussing myself every since for not getting both.

[taylorce1]

Dipper,

I read the same post and was guessing that petru was referring more to "Sectional Densities" when he was referring to penetration. I know bullets with high SD's have a tendency to penetrate better than ones with lower ones but there are exceptions to every rule. Large/heavy projectiles moving at moderate speeds generally out penetrate faster moving ones of higher SD. I've never had a problem with my .50 cal ML punch a hole clean through anything I've shot with it weather using round ball or 300+ grain conicals and I'll bet I've rarely gotten close to 1800 fps at the muzzle.

While the .284 caliber 175 grain bullet has a great SD of .310 on average it doesn't blow away the .308 or .338 calibers like petru implies. While it does take heavier bullets it isn't nearly as bad as he said the .30 cal in 200 grain has a SD of .301, but in 220 grain it has an impressive SD of .331. The .338 caliber only takes a 250 grain bullet to reach an SD of .313 using Nosler Partitoins or Sierra Gamekings for reference.

[dipper]

I read the same post and was guessing that petru was referring more to "Sectional Densities" when he was referring to penetration. I know bullets with high SD's have a tendency to penetrate better than ones with lower ones but there are exceptions to every rule. Large/heavy projectiles moving at moderate speeds generally out penetrate faster moving ones of higher SD.

+1 taylorce1, my thoughts exactly. Large/heavy projectiles moving at moderate speeds generally out penetrate faster moving ones of higher SD.

Dipper

[Water-Man]

.30-06 is the way to go! 110gr. to 220gr.

[nate45]

Elmer Kieth and Whelen school of thought

THE VELOCITY FALLACY

This old saw that "only velocity kills" is a fallacy and you are better off every time with a long, heavy bullet that will expand some and penetrate! Likewise, you ruin far less meat on a small deer with a 275-grain .338 or a 300-grain .375 than with any of the ultra-high-velocity, light-bullet loads. For elk, moose and big bear, I prefer not less than a 250-grain .338-caliber bullet (a 300-grain is better and a .40-caliber is better still) and this opinion is from a lifetime of experience, not armchair theory!

I would rather shoot elk with a 250-grain .358 than with any of the 7mms and .300 Magnums with 150- to 180-grain bullets. Even in the .30-06, if I were forced to use it--God forbid--I would stick to the Federal 200-grain boattail or the old soft-nose 220-grain slugs for real penetration and killing power.-- Elmer Keith/June 1982

Of course that is just one mans opinion. I experimented with the .375 H&H and the 275 grain spire point. I only shot a couple of deer with it, but it worked just as Keith described, but dead is dead and I couldn't see enduring that much recoil to kill a deer. I've also used the .338 Win Mag with the 225 grain bullet it worked good as well.

Anyway back to the OP, I myself really like all the cartridges based on the .30-06. As mentioned by others the 6.5-06, .280, .30-06 are all fairly close to the .270. If I just had to get it re-barreled I would go for the .338-06 or .35 Whelen, more than likely the .35 Whelen, which is a fine cartridge.

[frank505]

stick with the 06, just load the 220 grain nosler partition for big stuff. not that far behind the 338/06 or 35 whelen with the 220 nosler.

[bufordtjustice]

30-06...for all the same reasons listed above. Readily available, accurate enough, powerful enough...etc.

[petru]

Still, I fail to see why the 270 isnt big enough for moose. Its taken a heck of alot of moose and elk. Elk being tougher.

You are quite correct , user the Nosler 160 gain Partition bullet and the moose will fall down dead if you do your part and hit him in the vitals. This is true even if you use a 700 Nitro express. Hit them wrong and they walk away.

I once saw a moose hit 6 times with a .375 H&H and he calmly walked away without so much as twitch. I then shot him for my friend with a .270 I was carrying that day, but hit him right and I hit where I aimed.
The moose fell down dead and never moved.

[Deer Buster]

Just to clarify a few things the 270 is now my go to gun for deer , i also have a 7mm mag CZ 550 which is my moose gun . But it's so purdy i can't stand to take it out in fowl weather . The M 70 on the other hand was built for one reason & thats to hunt .

I belive that a 270 is an adequate choice for moose it's a good cartridge loaded with 140-150 you have the right SD . But i'm down to 19 3/4 in with the brake I figure im getting about 2600 ish fps , & even with a 24 in tube & 150s i'm gonna max at about 2800 fps . if I go to a 280 i can get about the same velocity out of a 160 grner with a higher BC .

30 06 is also a great cartridge as stated 100 - 220 grn but I load my own & availability of ammo is not an issue . So I'd really like to go with somethig a little cooler possibly even an AI .

8mm 06 is out of the norm but there's not a lot of variety in bullet choice .

338 06 is a chambering that i will own someday maybe soon . But i'm not certain i'd like the recoil it may dish out in a fetherweight . Any firsthand experiences with 338 06 i'd like to hear them .

& the beloved Whelen another great caliber , but i see a lot of these locally i was just looking at a new Rem CDL in 35 whelen a couple weeks ago for near the price of a re bbl .

So I guess it's basically boiled down to the 280 & 338 06 .

[taylorce1]

& even with a 24 in tube & 150s i'm gonna max at about 2800 fps . if I go to a 280 i can get about the same velocity out of a 160 grner with a higher BC.

You will probably find that with 160 grain .277 bullets you will be around 2800 fps and have a higher BC than a 160 grain 7mm bullet. It isn't unheard of to get 2900 fps out of a .270 and 150 grain bullets. All in all you don't need that kind of MV to kill anything if you put the bullet where it belongs.

8mm 06 is out of the norm but there's not a lot of variety in bullet choice.

I have one of on a VZ24 action, bullet selection isn't great but it will do the job. Best bullet I've had luck with so far is the 175 grain Gameking.

338 06 is a chambering that i will own someday maybe soon . But i'm not certain i'd like the recoil it may dish out in a featherweight . Any firsthand experiences with 338 06 i'd like to hear them .

My .338-06 is built on a 1903 action and 200 grain Hornady bullets run about 2880 and 210 grain Nosler Partitions run about 2850 with RL-15. You will not want to build this rifle in a FWT rifle. You could probably learn to manage it in a light weight rifle but it has quite a bit more recoil than the any .30-06 even with equal weight bullets and an 8-9 pound rifle is better than a 6-7 pound rifle.

& the beloved Whelen another great caliber , but i see a lot of these locally i was just looking at a new Rem CDL in 35 whelen a couple weeks ago for near the price of a re bbl.

Again I have one of these built on a 1903 Springfield action. This rifle is by far my hardest recoiling rifle. With 200 grain Remington Core Lokt bullets it kicks harder than my .375 Ruger pushing 270 grain bullets. I've been thinking of restocking to a straigher stock to try and mitigate some of the recoil. Bullet selection is adequate but not as good as the .338-06, some people like the ability to shoot pistol bullets in the .35 Whelen me not so much. The .35 Whelen will be the most affordable option to buy a rifle than to have any of the others built.

[petru]

.

I might add that several years ago they had on TV an elephant culling operation where the execution weapons were FN Fal rifles shooting 150 grain military fmj bullets. Seeing is believing and the elephants all went down as if struck by lighting. None, I repeat, none moved more than a couple of feet at most, and most simply collapsed as if struck by lightning.

Elenor O’Connor once floored an elephant with nothing more than a 30-6.

W.D.M. Bell killed over 1,000 elephants with the 6.5 Mannlicher and the 7x57 Mauser. Now the big bore huffers and puffers claim he never shot at elephant unless he was at least 1,000 yards away on the open plains. Bull crap. He himself said that when the grass was tall he often had to stand on a ladder to shoot the elephants only a few feet away. Now when you hunt 1,000 elephants commons sense will tell you some of them will come after you, many times before you even get a chance to shoot them first, so you must shoot them to stop them from flattening you. WDM Bell did this because if he had not he would have never lived to tell anyone about his hunts.

I think real life video’s like this really put the nail in the coffin of the master bull crappers like Elmer Keith who was the high priest of the big bore school of thought.

For a real eye opener on how much of charlatan and a fake Keith really was. Read "The Last Book" by Jack O'Connor. He devotes an entire chapter on Keith. He caught Keith in so many documented lies that he probably could have wrote the entire book on Keith if he had wanted to. You will never believe a word of Keith again after reading this chapter.

Lets face facts the lowly 6.5 Mannlicher cartridge with the 160 round nose solid regularly shot right through elephants traveling only about 2,200 fps. Its smaller diameter made penetration easily, especially with the long heavy solid bullets used in it. Big heavy monster blaster calibers penetrated no more, no better, and killed no better. Dead is dead not deader.

Another astonishing fact was that P.O. Ackley was able to shoot through an armored U.S. half track with ½ inch hardened steel plate using the .220 swift with the 48 grain soft point bullets at 4,100 fps but when he used the 30-06 with hardened steel penetrator it failed to penetrate the half track. Jaws still drop today when people learn of the experiment as it flys again in the face of the standard gun writer Bullistics.

Using the .220 Swift to shoot specially bred 650 lb. mules that had worked in the mines and later ran wild he astonished his fellow hunters that were using military rifles like the 8mm and 30-06 by showing them the Swift killed more quickly and killed like lightening compared to the bigger calibers used that day. Soon everyone had put away their rifles and were begging to use the Swift that day.

Roy Weatherby once flattened a charging African Buffalo, which the big bore boys will tell you can never ever be stopped by a small caliber rifle. Weatherby did it to prove what hot air those statements denigrating small calibers really were.

Again all this fly’s in the face of “bullistics” and the writings of arm chair gun writers that have repeated the same old myths about smaller calibers being totally useless for big game (with loud mouth Keith at the head of the yapping pack).

Jim Corbett who started out using a 450 monster double gun later put it aside for the lighter in weight and lighter kicking .275 Rigby which he used to kill monster man eating tigers. No tiger survived when hit with the .275 because Corbett knew if you hit them right they fall down dead. He was lividng proof of that and often hunted them in the dead of night.

Stewart Edward White once went into shock when he found an old widowed woman going out alone at night to kill African lions that where killing her cattle. He admonished her for not using a real big bore blaster instead of the 7x57 she was using, Why should I she asked? If you hit them right they fall down dead. She was living proof they did just that.

I have found old Jack O’Connor knew what he was talking about when it came to killing power and rifles. Magnum rifles are seldom if ever needed in actual field shooting and the big bore myth is just that, a myth that makes people feel safer when carrying one but contrary to their beliefs big bores do not kill if the shot is placed poorly nor do they stop enraged animals any better than a small bore using the proper bullet that ensures adequate penetration. This is has been my experiences. They are the same as many others who have used small bores with good bullets and made accurate shots.

When the small bore fails because of a poor bullet, or poor marksmanship a great hue and cry goes up against using them but when the exact same thing happens with the large bore cartridge a million excuses are given for the failure such as “Wow he sure was a mean tough animal”.

Shooting off center with a big bore does not knock an enraged animal down any better than shooting off center with a small bore gun with adequate penetration. In my younger and more foolish days I shot whitetale deer with the .460 Weatherby and I can assure you when I did not place the bullet dead center they simply looked at me and ran away. It did not knock them down, it did not spin them around like a top and it did not cause them to dissappear in a red puff of mist.

Agnes Herbert who hunted Russia, Africa and Alaska was probably one of the greatest woman hunters that ever lived. She used both the big bore blasters and the lowly 6.5 Mannlicher. Never once did she denigrate this small caliber. The only thing she said about it was that it did leave a smaller blood trail than the big 450 double rifle she used. She used the 6.5 all over the world and thought highly of it. Today the 6.5 Mannlicher with its 160 grain bullet that travels only about 2,200 fps is considered anemic and down right dangerous to use for big game. This shows you how little modern hunters know about calibers and killing power with many gun writers at the top of the heap.

Agnes Hergert was so far ahead of her time she that she called the gun writers of her day (early 1900's a bunch of idiots, which they where). When they tried to teach her to shoot with one eye closed she laughed at them and taught others to shoot with both eyes open. She had said since it was obvious to her they all knew little or nothing she was going to have to develope her own methods, which she did. She was a dead shot and again used her 6.5 all over the world and no wild animal got to her that charged her, except one, and guess what caliber failed to stop the charge, it was a big bore blaster.

I wish Agnes Herbert could have debated Keith, she would have chewed him up and spit him out for the ballistic buffoon he really was. She lived until 1960 or so and Keith was alive at the time and I am sure would have ran and hid under the bed rather than debate Herbert’s real life experiences with her 6.5 Mannlicher rifle. I wonder what wild excuses Keith would have come up with against all the dangerous game Herbert shot with her little 6.5 Mannlicher rifle.

Craig Boddington was recently astonished when he watched his daughter and a female friend gun down all manner of African game with the 7x57. He attributed this to the modern bonded core bullets but he did not know that old time African hunters were doing this same thing 100 or more years ago using fmj bullets. The old fmj bullets killing power and the newer bonded core bullets are more alike than they are different.

I think that the big bore magnum blasters often cause way more wounded game that gets away than any of the smaller bore weapons because the average once a year hunter is in no way skilled enough to stand the recoil resulting in flinching that produces poor shooting and wounded animals that get away to die painful and lingering death. This again is quite the opposite of the gun writer stories of animals getting away because “Joe once a year hunter” did not use a .700 Nitro express or the “latest and greatest” fire beltching super short magnum to shoot a 100 lb. man eating white tail deer.

I ask you how many working people in this day and age need a magnum to hunt non-dangerous game. Few that I know today could afford a hunt after big dangerous game. Go on the internet and see the astronomical prices now being charged for a guided dangerous big game hunt. The only people I know that are working people that actually may need to shoot such an animal would be the people that live in the remote wilderness of the state they are residents of. A friend of mine who lived in Alaska shot more than one big bear that tried to take away his meat animals that he had shot using nothing more than a converted 7x57 Mauser rifle. He would have been astonished if anyone had told him he was using a pip squeak caliber instead of using a 458 Winchester or bigger caliber.

Gun writers will solemnly tell you with a complete straight face that the big bores will spin the animal around like a top or knock him back 20 yards or make him disappear in a red puff of mist. I have never seen this happen and I am sure I never will.

I would say in conclusion if you are young, love punishing recoil, like to see a 10 foot magnum muzzle flash in the early morning hours that literally causes you to go blind, knocks the fillings out of your teeth, and gives you a chance to impress your girl friend in regards to what a young he-man you are, and keep the gun company’s in business making big calibers then buy a big bore blaster. Expensive Ammo company’s will love you for it. Buy the caliber that makes you feel safe and feel happy.

I will continue to use my 7x57, its never let me down and that’s after 40 years of continuous hunting. I think all that experience counts for something

[bcarver]

Sorry ...What petru said...

I shoot the .270 win.
I have a 7x57mm in the safe if I ever shoot the .270 barrel out.
What Bell did to elephants with the 7x57mm was awesome.
If I had to do it over I would go with the 7x57mm due to slightly better BC on bullets. However it is not enough difference to change now.
If your gun shoots well I would stay with the .270 If it is "shot out" or just not accurate. I would go with the .280 Remington. If ou reload I would go with the Ackley Improved.
PEOPLE SPEAK OF AMMO AVAILBILITY.
Just carry more ammo.

[qwert]

in 1960 I bought a winchester mod 70 featherweight in30-06. Thae rifle hit your shoulder so hard with a 200 grain bullit, you couldn;t stand to fire it. The anticipation of getting hit witha 5# hammer in the shoulder made it impossible to hit a target. Gave it away.

[shooter_john]

I don't hunt elk or moose but I have a Savage 2506 that will soon be a 6.5-06once I get the money for a barrel. That would be my choice even in your situation I do believe. I had 6.5x47 Lapua, and now I have a .260 and a 6.5 Rem Mag... I think I'm just addicted to 6.5's:(.

[nate45]

I wonder why all African States have caliber restrctions?

I wonder why the men who guide for a living there all carry heavy .40 + caliber rifles?

As far as thin skinned non-dangerous game goes, I'll agree deer look just as dead shot with a .243 as they do a .300 Mag.

I've read a lot of Jack O'Connor's writings and I don't recall him recommending small calibers for African game or even Elk for that matter.

I don't always agree with Elmer Keith, but to suggest that he made his experiences up out of whole cloth and did not actually do or accomplish anything, could not be farther from the truth.

He is dead and can not defend him self, but his succesor Ross Seyfreid is still alive.

" Keith was the best shot I have ever known. He was perhaps the only man who ever existed that was a complete master of all three shooting disciplines. Keith could push a rifle, shotgun or handgun to its limits. To those who wonder if his feats were fact or fiction, I can say without reservation they were fact. I watched him shoot. Even as an old man, he expected to be able to make the difficult or impossible shot. While sitting on his horse at eighty yards distant, I saw him shoot a porcupine offhand with his 44 magnum. Many men I know could have made the shot, but only one would not bother to look back at the result. Elmer Keith knew the bullets had hit when the hammer fell. Elmer Keith "was there". "-forward to Gun Notes Volume I Ross Seyfreid

Now petru with all due respect, I'll take Ross's opinion of Keith over yours any day.

[bobn]

i like the m70 featherwieght. 06 recoil is on the outer edge of my limits.
....ross used to be my hero. till i waited for an hour straight some years ago at the nra convention in minnesota. all i wanted was to say hi. he never even looked at me or any others at the booth. just some ramblings. bobn

[Swampghost]

Deal with reality. What do YOU shoot best? I just went through this, figured that the '06 was as much as I could tolerate anymore and sold all of my heavy stuff with the exception of a 45-70 thats been in my family for generations.

Think on the terminal end, we've come a long way with bullets. I have no doubt that my .243 with the right bullet would drop a moose.

[Jimro]

30 06 is also a great cartridge as stated 100 - 220 grn but I load my own & availability of ammo is not an issue . So I'd really like to go with somethig a little cooler possibly even an AI .

You know you aren't the only one to want a rifle other than a 30-06, that does everything a 30-06 does, but not be a 30-06.

If you stop and think for a second, there is nothing wrong with wanting a rifle that is a little "different". I know, my "little different" rifle is 9.3x62.

A 280 Rem is a great compromise, it won't do anything that a 30-06 won't do, but has really common components and is pretty cheap to load. Last I checked 7mm bullets were cheaper than 338 caliber bullets.

Jimro

[petru]

I've read a lot of Jack O'Connor's writings and I don't recall him recommending small calibers for African game or even Elk for that matter.

On one of Jack's last trips to Africa he and his wife Elenor took only two rifles and they were both 7x57 Mausers. Jack said he had learned that African game was no more difficult to gun down than U.S, game and that it was a total myth about African game being so much tougher.

He did indeed recommend small calibers for elk. As a matter of fact his wife used the 7x57 with the 160 grain bullet when she could have used the 175 grain. Jack said the 160 grain in the 7x57 killed the Elk’s just fine.

Jack himself shot many an elk with the 130 grain bullet with the .270. He even shot a grizzly bear with the 130 grain bullet in his .270.

Last year a gun writer by the name of Towsley, (excuse the spelling it may not be quite correct) who likes to bad mouth the .270 stated the .270 was not suitable for animals as big as elk. I told him he had unknowingly admitted that he never shot one with the .270 in his life or he never would have made that statement. I got a lame, and hem, ha, response from him that only re-enforced my belief that not only had he never shot an elk with the .270 but probably had never even hunted with the .270.

I had a buddy that once proudly showed me a very beautiful .375 H & H Mag. pre-64 Winchester. He said that since he was a big man he needed to use a big gun when he hunted deer.

Well we went hunting and he shot a deer. He did hit it right and on the run to boot and it ran about 20 yards and fell down dead. I thought that was pretty good shooting myself but he was all upset. “Did you see that, he said”, the deer ran 20 yards before it died ( he had expected it to be blown off its feet). I now decided to really have some fun after I made sure his rifle was not loaded anymore. I said to him, “you know it really was not the deer’s fault that it did what it did”. He replied “what the #$%@ are you talking about”. Well, “says I”, you see you cannot blame the deer for the way he reacted when he was shot because he never read any of Elmer Keith’s books on the superiority of big bore blasters like yours, otherwise he would have jumped up in the air about 10 feet, made a 90 degree flip and came down resting on his back with his feet up in the air stone dead. It was a good thing I had made sure my buddy had his gun unloaded that day before I told him that

[taylorce1]

Sorry ...What petru said...

I shoot the .270 win.
I have a 7x57mm in the safe if I ever shoot the .270 barrel out.
What Bell did to elephants with the 7x57mm was awesome.
If I had to do it over I would go with the 7x57mm due to slightly better BC on bullets. However it is not enough difference to change now.
If your gun shoots well I would stay with the .270 If it is "shot out" or just not accurate. I would go with the .280 Remington. If ou reload I would go with the Ackley Improved.
PEOPLE SPEAK OF AMMO AVAILBILITY.
Just carry more ammo.

I will not argue that the .280 Rem isn't a good cartridge, it just doesn't offer any improvement over the .270 Win. 7mm bullets do not have better BC than .277 caliber bullets of equal weight and design. The 7mm will always trail the .277 in BC just because the bullet of equal design and weight in the .277 cal will be longer giving it a better BC and SD if only slightly better than the 7mm bullet .

[bigbird34]

I would not change the 270 win,just keep it as is is....

Buy a new gun "for hunting" ,30-06 is a great choice,338-06 is nice and the 35 Whelen is nice ....look at remingtons 700 BDL's/ CDL's ....338-06 Brass in around a buck a piece (a-aquare) ....35 Whelen is accurate .....your really just splitting hairs here .....the 30-06 being the cheapest to reload for ....the 338-06 .....performs well as does the 35 Whelen ....Good luck Jim

BTW ,I own 3-06,and 1-338-06,and 1-7mm Rem Mag .....:D

[Jimro]

I have a 7x57mm in the safe if I ever shoot the .270 barrel out.
What Bell did to elephants with the 7x57mm was awesome.

What Bell did to elephants was shoot them with a 7x57 enough times that they would die after several days of tracking. Bell mentioned that after he switched to the 318 Westley Richards (the ballistic twin of the 338-08 or 333 OKH) those "inexplicable misses ceased to happen".

Just because your bullet might reach the brain of a pachyderm doesn't mean that it will.

Heck, Wally Johnson often took heart/lung shots with his 375 H&H and tracked them for days until they succumbed.

Commercial ivory hunting was brutal, cruel work. There are caliber minimums in Africa for a reason, and it isn't because the 7x57 won't kill an elephant, it is because a 7x57 won't kill an elephant reliably.

Jimro

[skinewmexico]

Probably been more moose killed with a 6.5x55 than any of the calibers mentioned, with a lot less recoil

[FSJeeper]

I agree with the others.

35 Whelen would be my top choice, 338-06 second, with the 30 06 coming in 3rd for big game like moose. I also agree, the 30 06 will do the job with no issues though.

A better all around choice for moose and elk would be the 338 Winchester Magnum.

[sc928porsche]

With the options that you gave, the 30-06 would be the best bet. Factory ammo is readily available and in a diverse assortment. If you reload, the choices of bullets and powders are also there to tailor the cartridge for what you want to hunt.

[crghss]

I vote for the .280 rem. Why? Cause I haven't killed a deer with that round yet.

BUT, For what you would gain changing to a .280, .308, 30-06 I just can't see how it's worth it. Why not just take the money for the new barrel and gunsmith charge and buy a new rifle. Probably cost more but you have TWO rifles. Could sell the one you don't want vs having a barrel leaning against the wall. Or better yet, just keep them both:)

[jrothWA]

30-06 or the 35Whelan, all use the same basic case and both will handle big game.