Tips before buying used 9mm

[melcob]

Dear all:
I am rookie at shooting but also quick learner. So I am planning to purchase a used 9mm first and then I will see how it goes. Just today I had in my hands two CZ's 85 and 75 and one Daewoo DP51 as good alternatives. So what points should I look at before making my choice?:confused:

[BanditSRT8]

My number one tip to anyone who is looking ONLY to buy a used gun:

Buy a Glock. Nothing the last owner could have done to it would make it less reliable.

I cannot make such a blanket statement about any other brand of guns.

[floydster]

Get a CZ and don't look back.:D

[Saab1911]

Man, I want a Daewoo DP51. Triple action is cool.

Given the choices however, I would go with either of the CZ's. If you're
left handed or if the CZ 85 is in much nicer shape, go with the CZ 85. If
you're right handed, go with the CZ 75.

It is pretty near impossible to find spare parts for the Daewoo. Maybe you
can buy another DP51 as a parts gun. Otherwise, you're better off with
either of the CZ's.

Cheers,

Jae

[melcob]

Thank you all for the tips:
Actually there weren't Glocks available, so I was choosing between those two. Now that I know CZ has technnical support and Daewoo doesn't, then I will go for the first option.:D:

[ChicagoTex]

Man, I want a Daewoo DP51. Triple action is cool.

As cool as it is, it also has a reputation for being unreliable when it's not kept squeaky-clean.

If it's gotta go bang everytime, I strongly recommend the CZ, my 75B .40S&W has NEVER failed me.

I also respectfully disagree with BanditSRT8's argument that Glocks are unwreckable, visit a couple IDPA matches and you'll see what cheap aftermarket parts and hack gunsmithing can produce... jams jams and more jams!

That said, stock Glocks are great!

[Davis]

It's really cheesy when fanboys interject needlessly...

The CZ's have the advantage of replacement parts being easier to get. If they are the same price, pick the 85 or 75 that has the better trigger. Functionally, other than ambidextrous controls, they are the same. The 85 combat does not have a firing pin block and has adjustable sights.

Fundamentally, if they let you remove the slide, do so and look for any obvious wear (and it will be obvious if there are problems). Pull the barrel and look at the locking lugs on the barrel as well as the slide to make sure they are undamaged. There should be no damage and CZ's are built like tanks, but you never know what ammo might have been run through them.

By the way, any pistol, ANY pistol, can be altered to make them unsafe - regardless of who made it. Ignore hype.

Davis

[wilson133]

I would help to know your price range. CZs are good guns, no question, but fit in a handgun is very individual and you would be better advise to test fire any model handgun before buying it. I wouldn't recommend the Daewoo as a first gun because orphans tend to have parts and service availability problem. The first rule of all machines, yes even Glocks, is that al machines eventually break.
The Ruger P95 is a good rugged choice, new or used and should be cheaper than the CZ.

[Jay1958]

I agree that you can't go wrong with a CZ75, CZ85 or Ruger P95DC. Lots of other good choices, too. Personally, I am not a fan of Glocks, or any other DAO pistols with light triggers and no manual safety. But that's just me.

[melcob]

Thank you guys again:
I will take look at the barrel, slide and lugs, and yes the 75 I had yesterday has adjustable sight and I am right handed so it seems to be the one. Finally, I am going to try it during the week to feel the recoil and control; my previous experience has been on .38's only so this is fun new.:)
Manuel

[HK123]

Buy a Glock. Nothing the last owner could have done to it would make it less reliable.

I cannot make such a blanket statement about any other brand of guns.

You could also lump HKs in there or SIGs as most owners of these firearms are very avid shooters and enthusiasts. The local yahoo from the bad part of town won't be owning a SIG and tossing it around and doing all kinds of mods etc. People buy these when they know what they're buying and usually the reseller is the original owner.

For all intents and purposes, a used Glock is as good as a new one though.

[HKFan9]

I wouldn't recommend a Glock to a new shooter over any firearm with a manual safety. Glocks might be reliable but not everyone understands the concept of the trigger.

Out of the choices I would buy the CZ I can't remember ever hearing something bad about them. No local shops around here have a Daewoo so I can't comment on them.

[Redneckrepairs]

I wont get all " brand " on you tho i have brands i like as anyone does .

Any ( used ) pistol you want to buy should be done with an inspection , either face to face or a return in x days understood . 1.st step is look at the gun , finish is somewhat important . since it MAY show neglect . If it shows wear on sharp edges it may mean that the gun was carried a lot , if it shows big honkin pits mid slide , or mid cylinder it more likely shows the gun was abused . Study the models you are intrested in and learn how to field strip them ( this includes pulling the cylinder crain assy but not a detail strip if say a revolver ). Look for common cheap ploys such as a set of dimples in the metal anywhere ( peening with a punch will for a short time " tighten " components ) . Now we assume you have researched " inspection " and it has passed . Its a used gun , shooting it does nothing to the value . If at a range well demand to shoot a box of ammo ( range ammo ) thro it before you buy ( if it wont feed that it wont feed if an auto , if it wont shoot to aim at 15 yards it wont shoot ( a group not where you aim )there with anything if a revolver ) . Mostly hand guns are traded off by folks who just want the newest neatest thing and they are in factory spec and just fine firearms . None the less if your buying used and someone says you cannot shoot it , well that is a reason for concern and i would pass for a position where i could " try " the gun .

[carguychris]

I'll leave the comments on what brand to buy until the end and first go with what the OP asks... ;)

1) Check the muzzle crown for scratches or other damage; this will ruin the accuracy of ANY gun.

2) Check the bore for pitting, rust, or bulges. Make sure the rifling looks well-defined with sharp edges.

3) Make sure the edges of the slide stop notch are sharp and not rounded off. Rounded edges can lead to slide stop malfunctions. They are often worn down by shooters who release the slide by thumbing down the slide stop rather than pulling the slide back. (Don't do this. It's IMHO the semi-auto equivalent of flipping a revolver's cylinder open or closed with a flick of your wrist.) :(

4) Make sure the safety (if so equipped) operates properly.

5) If the gun has an external hammer, cock it and then try to push it down with your thumb using firm but not excessive pressure. The hammer should not drop.

6) Make sure the slide operates smoothly.

7) Check the top of the magazine(s) for damage.

8) If the gun is DA/SA, check that the double action pull feels normal for the type of gun. If it's too heavy or gritty, the mechanism could be damaged; if it's too light, it may have been worked on by an amateur gunsmith, which may compromise reliability.

The subject of "Which Cheap 9mm" comes up often, so there's gobs of info out there. My thoughts, other than what's come up already:

Older Ruger DA/SAs (incl. P95): Fat and clunky-looking, and I don't like the triggers, but they're reliable, plentiful, low-priced, and generally quite accurate.

Stoeger Cougar: Foreign-built high-quality copy of older Beretta design. They seem to have an outstanding reputation for a low-priced gun.

Older S&W metal-frame DA/SAs: Clunky-looking, somewhat heavy in steel-frame form, and seemingly unloved by much of the shooting public, but they're accurate and almost unbreakable, the triggers are very good, and S&W will fix almost anything that goes wrong for free. The market is full of inexpensive LEO trade-ins right now; buy while you can. :D (FWIW you might want to do some research into the difference between the models because, like CZs, these guns come in a large variety of configurations.)

[PeterGunn]

The 2 posts that actually discuss the process of inspecting and examining are exactly what needs to be done to buy a used pistol in a "smart" way. Ignore the Glocksters (and other brand loyalists) who use these threads to prop themselves and their favorites up.

First, determine which platform fits you best and accomplishes what you want to do. Then follow the advise that has been offered and you will be fine, regardless which quality firearm you select.

[1-UP]

"Make sure the edges of the slide stop notch are sharp and not rounded off. Rounded edges can lead to slide stop malfunctions. They are often worn down by shooters who release the slide by thumbing down the slide stop rather than pulling the slide back. (Don't do this. It's IMHO the semi-auto equivalent of flipping a revolver's cylinder open or closed with a flick of your wrist.)"

I hate to derail the thread (especially because I'm also nosing about for a 9mm), but could you clarify this statement for me please? Are you saying that it's not good to use the slide release button? I had a more gun-savvy friend mention something about "slingshotting" the bolt when I cock my Mark III, but I never had him elaborate.

[Alleykat]

I am not a fan of Glocks, or any other DAO pistols with light triggers and no manual safety. But that's just me.

Glocks aren't DAO. Saying that in a forum like this might confuse a newbie! The statement about Glocks' being a pretty sure bet for buying used, while, of course, true, doesn't seem to coincide with the OP's situation.

The fact is, Glock will fix any Glock, free, absent obvious abuse, forever, regardless of whether one is the first or fiftieth owner. All manufacturers don't do that.

[WESHOOT2]

Ensure ("ensure") that a warranty program for specific gun is available.

Then there is no problem, even if the used gun has one.

There are no perfect brands (but some darn satisfactory warranty services).

[HK123]

The fact is, Glock will fix any Glock, free, absent obvious abuse, forever, regardless of whether one is the first or fiftieth owner. All manufacturers don't do that.

That's what I was saying. Someone looking for a good used gun, who finds a Glock, and who also likes how it feels, is buying a quality gun that is about as new as you can get without buying new.

What's with the knee jerk reactions as soon as someone mentions Glock in a sentence. You have hounds comming in "new shooter can't have Glock" "Glock is just a fad" "stop drinking kool-aid". etc

Seriously...I own one Glock and yes I would recommend it to people who ask because it's good enough for me to put down my HK P30 which cost me over $900 and carry it instead. I do practice with and carry both depending on what I'm doing etc. The G19 seems to conceal a bit better and doesn't rub the skin like the P30 grip.

I don't understand how people can come in and say "just buy a CZ" in every thread but when someone mentions a Glock you have 30 people that have a fit. I was merely offering the suggestion that he handle a Glock or look at one before buying. New shooters need to handle everything they can find. Buying the first gun you see based on the price alone or based on a forum is bad practice IMO. I stand by what I said and I firmly believe that a first time buyer needs to look at everything in the area. Go to a gun show etc.

[Jay1958]

What do you mean, Glocks aren't DAO? DAO means double action only. They sure as heck aren't SA (single action) and they sure as heck aren't SA/DA (single action/double action).

Glocks are striker-fired DAO pistols. End of story.

To make sure that I wasn't missing something, I just checked several other websites (GlockWorld.com, TopGlock.com, GunSource.com, etc) and they all state that Glocks are "semi-automatic, DAO pistols".

So, with all due respect: what are you talking about?

Quote (Jay1958):
I am not a fan of Glocks, or any other DAO pistols with light triggers and no manual safety. But that's just me.

Glocks aren't DAO. Saying that in a forum like this might confuse a newbie! The statement about Glocks' being a pretty sure bet for buying used, while, of course, true, doesn't seem to coincide with the OP's situation.

The fact is, Glock will fix any Glock, free, absent obvious abuse, forever, regardless of whether one is the first or fiftieth owner. All manufacturers don't do that.

[HK123]

They are DAO with a short reset.

[Alleykat]

Glocks are striker-fired DAO pistols. End of story.


Wrong. Real end of story. Think a little deeper, grasshopper! ;) Hey, I'll bet you think XDs are dao too, don't you??

[B.N.Real]

It really depends on you.

Rent a few at the range before you buy.

And check out ALOT of brands-everybody makes handguns for 9mm.

And right now,it's the cheapest ammo to shoot alot on the market next to .22 long rifle.

[Jay1958]

So, AlleyKat, what do you think they are, then? Springfield says on their "official" website:

"The XD pistol may "feel" like a DAO (double action only) mechanism, and previously has been mistakenly described that way (by me, among others), but it is not. It acts like a DAO, but it isn't, mechanically. Springfield's official term for the mechanism is Ultra Safety Assurance Action Trigger System--or "USA Action" for short.

Which is nothing but marketing hype! Double-action is when the trigger causes the hammer or the striker to move first in a rearward direction - which is what the XD and the Glock both do - although not as far rearward as more conventional DAO firearms - then to release the hammer or striker causing the weapon to fire.

So no matter what marketing hype Glock or Springfield use to sell their firearms, by definition, the triggers of both cause the hammer or striker to first move to the rear, away from the primer of the chambered ammo, then to release the hammer or striker at speed, causing the weapon to fire. This is the classic definition of double action. Since they don't provide any other means of firing, they are double action only - hence, "DAO".

If Glock or Springfield design firearms that operate in a similar manner, but when the hammer or striker DO NOT move rearward, away from the primer, prior to releasing the trigger, then those firearms would be "pre-cocked" when a round was chambered, and those would be single action - SA - weapons.

What do YOU call the Glock actions, if not DAO? You haven't stated your position. Do you have an answer for that? or are you just playing games?

Finally, if Glock and XDs are not "DAO" firearms, why can I give you dozens of links to reputable websites that describe them as such? Can you provide references to any reputable website or source that states they are something OTHER than DAO? besides some marketing B.S. like Springfield's bogus "USA action" or Glock's euphemism "Triple Safety System"?

(Jay1958) Glocks are striker-fired DAO pistols. End of story.

(AlleyKat) Wrong. Real end of story. Think a little deeper, grasshopper! Hey, I'll bet you think XDs are dao too, don't you??

[Catchabullet]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Sig_Sauer_P225_P6_9mm_Pistol.html

[daveydoo]

DA is when a trigger cocks and fire the pistol.

SA is when the trigger fires the the pistol. The striker or hammer is cocked by the slide during firing.

XD and glocks are sa. If it was DA or DAO you could be able to fire the pistol just by puling the trigger. You cannot with either the XD or Glock.

[HisSoldier]

"Buy a Glock."

:rolleyes:

Some things I'll never understand.

[dispatcher]

Has anyone ever had serious problems with a Ruger P89 or Ruger P95? These are top notch 9 mms in my opinion.

[carguychris]

I hate to derail the thread (especially because I'm also nosing about for a 9mm), but could you clarify this statement for me please? Are you saying that it's not good to use the slide release button? I had a more gun-savvy friend mention something about "slingshotting" the bolt when I cock my Mark III, but I never had him elaborate.
OK, you are shooting the gun, you empty the magazine, the slide locks back, and you insert a new magazine.

The correct thing to do next is give the slide a quick yank to the rear with the support hand. The slide stop will automatically unlock and the slide will go forward into battery and chamber the next round. The slide stop is never touched during this procedure. I think this is what your friend meant by "slingshotting" the slide (bolt).

Manually releasing the slide by thumbing down the slide stop is the wrong way to release the slide while reloading because it will eventually round off the slide stop notch. FWIW I prefer to use the term "slide stop" rather than "slide release button" because IMHO the latter terminology implies that you're supposed to use it to release the slide, which you're not!

Asides from the possibility of mechanical damage, most tutorials on combat shooting recommend the "quick yank" or "slingshot" (or whatever) method because it requires less thought and fine motor skills to accomplish. ("Grab slide and pull" is easier than "Where's that doggone little button?!?") This is really important when shooting under stress, such as when a BG is shooting back at you. :eek:

FWIW if you need to release the slide manually for cleaning or whatever, pull the slide back with your support hand to take the tension off the slide stop, hold down the slide stop with the thumb of your grip hand, and then gently guide the slide forwards with your support hand. I prefer not to release the slide and let it fly forwards under spring pressure because (a) it can damage some semi-autos to do this without a round in the chamber, and (b) if the takedown button/switch is disengaged, the slide (and barrel) will fly off the gun and make you look like an idiot. :rolleyes:

[carguychris]

XD and glocks are sa. If it was DA or DAO you could be able to fire the pistol just by puling the trigger. You cannot with either the XD or Glock.
+1. Regardless of what any website or gunmakers' brochure says, I regard striker-fired pistols as SA because, like a 1911 or Hi-Power, if it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger the first time, you must clear it. You cannot cock the gun with the trigger, which IMHO is the hallmark of DA.

IMHO the reason gunmakers describe these pistols as "DAO" is to sell them to law enforcement agencies that negatively associate SA pistols with too-light triggers and ADs when carried with the safety off.

[FEG]

1) Check the muzzle crown for scratches or other damage; this will ruin the accuracy of ANY gun.

2) Check the bore for pitting, rust, or bulges. Make sure the rifling looks well-defined with sharp edges.

3) Make sure the edges of the slide stop notch are sharp and not rounded off. Rounded edges can lead to slide stop malfunctions. They are often worn down by shooters who release the slide by thumbing down the slide stop rather than pulling the slide back. (Don't do this. It's IMHO the semi-auto equivalent of flipping a revolver's cylinder open or closed with a flick of your wrist.)

4) Make sure the safety (if so equipped) operates properly.

5) If the gun has an external hammer, cock it and then try to push it down with your thumb using firm but not excessive pressure. The hammer should not drop.

6) Make sure the slide operates smoothly.

7) Check the top of the magazine(s) for damage.

8) If the gun is DA/SA, check that the double action pull feels normal for the type of gun. If it's too heavy or gritty, the mechanism could be damaged; if it's too light, it may have been worked on by an amateur gunsmith, which may compromise reliability.


This is a very good checklist. I was very hard pressed to think of anything meaningful to add.

9) While this shouldn't affect your decision to buy, it should influence how much you should pay. Magazines are sort of expensive. Make sure the springs are not spongy or obviously weak. Make sure any/all magazines supplied with the pistol actually fit and can be removed as designed. This is just a restatement of #7 above.

10) Examine the leade area (where the chamber ends and the rifling begins) for erosion. This can indicate shooting a lot of high pressure rounds.

11) Sights that use some sort of dot or inserts may need to be replaced or touched up. Include this in your bottom line.

CZ magazines are not designed to fully eject on the models the OP mentioned. They have a magazine brake, so the magazine should eject a little less than an inch, then stop. You then remove it by hand pressure.

[larryh1108]

I have purchased used handguns. My Glock 26 was purchased used thru a very reputbable dealer. My only fear in buying used relates to this forum and others like it.

When you read about people having troubles with their handguns, the common statement is after it's fixed (for the 2nd or 3rd time) they have lost confidence in it and sell it or trade it in. That's scary. I've only read a few times where the owners stated they didn't wish to sell this lemon for someone else to buy and use in a life saving situation. They opted to lock it away and forget about it. 99.9% of the time the unhappy gun owner gets rid of it and it ends up in your hands or mine. Not a very comforting thought. I'll stick to buying used for old collectibles and not take the chance that it is prone to failing and has a history of just that. These rejects fall under every make out there. Of course, the more guns a mfg sells, the more lemons there are floating around looking for a new owner. I'm sure there are more Glocks and Tauruses than Kimbers or H&Ks simply because so many more were sold. 1/2 of 1% (or whatever the actual number is) of a million guns sold is still 5,000 lemons per million sold. Where are these guns?

[carguychris]

After re-reading "Combat Handgunnery" by Massad Ayoob, I'll add a couple more checkout tips. I hope Mass doesn't mind me paraphrasing him. :)

12) With the slide forwards and the pistol in battery, try to wiggle the end of the barrel. It should be locked tight or have minimal play. Lots of play indicates that the gun's lockup is poor, which will hurt accuracy.

13) If the gun is DA/SA, deactivate the decocker/safety if so equipped, hand-cock it (unloaded of course!), point the muzzle upwards, insert a pencil into the barrel eraser-end first, and actuate the decocker or decocker/safety. The pencil should remain stationary or wiggle a little bit from the action of moving the lever. It should NOT fly out of the barrel. If it does, the decocker is malfunctioning and the pistol is unsafe! (FWIW this is more detailed procedure for performing #4 above.)

Also, regarding #9 in FEG's post, I've seen instances where the store clerks or prior owners have mixed up the magazines of the used pistols they have sitting around. Check EVERY magazine that they give you for proper fit, even if you can't see any visible difference between them. Be aware that older DA/SA pistols sold to law enforcement usually had magazine disconnects aka mag safeties; make sure that such a pistol can be dry-fired with each of the magazines in place. Few things are as frustrating as realizing that a particular magazine won't deactivate the mag safety! :mad:

[flight954]

Buy all three of your selected choices, then a Glock, Hk, Sig, Ruger, S&W, etc, because you will soon get the fever. I like every one of the choices. All have great qualities and some are better than others for different people. Didn't want to sound "fanboyish".
If it's a cost issue go for a Ruger or Glock then buy a new CZ

[gymheart]

Just a question about Glocks. I'd heard some years ago that Glocks had the most AD's of all the handguns out there. They said it was because of that trigger/safety thingy. I've read most experienced gun owners do not recommend Glocks to Newbies. I've also read that shoving a loaded Glock down in your pants could cause extreme pain to lower extremities if, say, part of your shirt should come into contact with the trigger. I've never shot a Glock but I've heard it's a short and easy trigger pull. So.....what's the real story about the AD's , etc. By the way, aren't they partially cocked by the slide action?

[ChicagoTex]

Just a question about Glocks. I'd heard some years ago that Glocks had the most AD's of all the handguns out there. They said it was because of that trigger/safety thingy. I've read most experienced gun owners do not recommend Glocks to Newbies. I've also read that shoving a loaded Glock down in your pants could cause extreme pain to lower extremities if, say, part of your shirt should come into contact with the trigger. I've never shot a Glock but I've heard it's a short and easy trigger pull. So.....what's the real story about the AD's , etc. By the way, aren't they partially cocked by the slide action?

Glocks are indeed partially (mostly) cocked by the slide action and do not have a "second strike capability", functionally they behave a lot more like single-action onlys than a conventional DAO, though becuase the trigger stroke extends the striker just a little bit more prior to release, it's classified as a DAO. The trigger pull on a standard Glock trigger has a distinct two-stage feel, one stage is very light and picks up the bulk of the slack in the trigger, you then hit a subsequent resistance of about 5.5-6lbs which crisply lets the striker go and fires - I like it tremendously as it's two-stage nature gives me a predictable let-off and makes it almost impossible for me to jerk the trigger (something I sometimes have a problem with with single-stage triggers). 1911 aficianados hate it, but it's a great practical trigger.
Glocks are wonderful functioning guns for the disciplined shooter. By disciplined I mean you can keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire, and always carry in a quality holster that fully covers the trigger guard - idiot "gangstas" shoving their guns down the front of their pants need not apply, although I think this world would be much improved if more folks like that ruined their ability to procreate. Most "experts" don't recommend Glocks to "newbies" because they assume newbies lack the discipline to handle a firearm safely, and require a very long heavy trigger pull or a manual safety to compensate for their mishandling - I don't necessarily agree but this is strictly a matter of opinion, there is no absolute truth on the issue because it varies from shooter to shooter. I will say I've known many newbies who were better about gun-handling than a lot of so-called experts.

I couldn't tell you if the Glock has had the most accidental discharges of any handgun, though I'd bet it would actually lose out to the double-action revolver if for no reason than the fact that the DA revolver has about 85 years of stupidity-in-handling over the Glock. The bottom line is that, except in a case of tremendously poor maintenance (something that was addressed recently in another thread) Glocks DO NOT GO OFF THEMSELVES - I'm sure you probably know a guy who knows a guy who swears it "just went off" that one time but trust me, he's lying.

So here's what it comes down to: Glocks are wonderful, reliable, intrinsically safe guns that happen to have a very narrow margin for stupid, you weigh that against your own propensity for stupid (and no matter how "crack" you are, everyone has some stupid in them, trust me on this.) and you make a choice.

Me? I carry a G26 IWB.

[kungfucowboy]

5) If the gun has an external hammer, cock it and then try to push it down with your thumb using firm but not excessive pressure. The hammer should not drop.

this is true for almost every handgun. the exception to the rule is the daewoo you are looking at as the hammer is designed to be pushed forward to put the pistol into the 3rd action mode (a long but very light trigger pull).

[larryh1108]

Can it be said that IF Glock has the most ADs it because there are probably more Glocks out there than most other guns? Quantity means a lot when looking at statistics. Just a thought.

[FEG]

Can it be said that IF Glock has the most ADs it because there are probably more Glocks out there than most other guns? Quantity means a lot when looking at statistics. Just a thought.

By that rationale, ADs with S&W Model 10s would have been as ubiquitous as the guns themselves. ;)

[PSP]

Here's a link to alot of good info. About a page down is a "function test" Use all that apply to the particular pistol you are examining.

Remember, a well maintained gun may show some wear, but be perfectly OK. Take yout time and be choosey. There are lots of good guns available, don't buy the first one you see. Shop around and educate yourself as to price and features.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs25.htm

Good luck.