how good is TAP ammo

[moonshot]

I have read Ammo Oracle, and been given "The Word" over on another forum, but I wanted to ask here to see if the consensus was the same...

Is Hornady 60gr TAP ammo, red box, in .223 Rem an effective and reliable self-defense round, suitable for general purpose use, where reduced penetration may be desired, or is it a marketing gimmick, being basically a hot V-max anti-critter round and, while it can be effective in the anti-personal setting, there are far more effective rounds available (Hornady 75gr TAP, Black Hills 68gr or 75gr OTM, Winchester Q3131, Federal XM193, etc)?

[T.A.Sharps]

I never have used it, but if I hear about great performance for ammo, its usually about a hand load, or Black Hills Match grade.

I've seen TAP and wondered the same, never really heard anyone talk about it.

[moonshot]

Yah, I just don't know. I have police officer friends who have been issued it, but they have never used it. It is said to offer reduced penetration in urban environments, but I have also heard that it doesn't penetrate an assailant deeply enough in anything but an unobstructed frontal shot, and maybe not even then. It definitely fragments. Kind of like the old Glaser Safety Slug.

I've shot it out of my AR, and it's very accurate.

I still don't know if it serves a useful role or if it is just a gimmick. I know I wouldn't want to be shot with one, but that is not really the point.

[scsov509]

A department in our area had an officer involved shooting back in February, and the word on the street is the ammunition used was the 60 grain TAP. The officer fired 8 rounds at the suspect in a vehicle after the suspect first fired at approaching officers with a shotgun. One of the rounds penetrated the vehicle and stuck the suspect in a cell phone stored in his chest pocket. The suspect surrendered believing he had been wounded, though it was later determined he had only sustained superficial injuries from shrapnel. http://cdapress.com/articles/2008/02/15/news/news04.txt

I can't verify for certain that the ammunition used was in fact the 60 grain TAP, but that is what I'm being told by those close to the situation.

[Oberg]

I just wish they cold the cases for thoughs of us who handload.. not only do they look cool they are suppose to be great for cycling through your AR

[TheManHimself]

I wouldn't use any cartridge loaded with a varmint bullet like the V-max for anti-personnel purposes. The FBI standard is 12-18" of penetration for a good reason. Stick with M193 or the heavy OTM rounds for 5.56mm defensive ammo.

[res45]

Make your own good varmint Rd. as well as indoor SD Rd. Mine are loaded to about 2350 fps. I'm goingto do some penetration test in different kinds of media to see just how they preform.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/Rifles046.jpg

[RockyMtnTactical]

Remember that sacrificing penetration ultimately can sacrifice effectiveness. It's a risky game to mess around too much when it comes to that in a defensive loading.

Stay away from VMAX loads for self defense.

[shooter_john]

I am issued the ammo in question for a patrol rifle, for the reduced penetration attributes. However it is still a violation of SOP to deploy the rifles in certain environments such as apartments and mobile homes. Our tac team is issued Federal Bonded in addition to the TAP. Fortunately we haven't had tot use any of it, so I can't speak to any of the claims.

[RockyMtnTactical]

Federal Bonded cannot be beat in the penetration department.

[nobody_special]

Stay away from VMAX loads for self defense.

While I tend to agree, I have some Vmax loads for self-defense... suburban setting, 110 gr. bullets in .308 for my M1A. (I also have 155 gr. Amax handy.)

I think they'll do the job, but I'd be less confident with Vmax in a less powerful cartridge.

[moonshot]

I've seen geletin-penetration photos of the TAP-LE (red box) in the 40gr, 55gr, 60gr, and 75gr weights. All but the 75gr's were V-max ballistic tip designs.

The 60gr bullets had penetration depths of 10". I do not know if the geletin was bare or covered with a barrier.

I guess between the 60gr TAP and the 68gr Black Hills OTM, what would you all pick for general self-defense out of a 16" 1in9 twist?

[Jermtheory]

the 75gr is where its at....

if you can afford it
if your barrel likes it(twist,i know some 1:9's seem to handle it from what i hear)
especially in a 5.56 load

its far from scientific i know,but the difference between it and my M193 on 2x4's,phone books,water jugs,etc is impressive...no comparison.

lotsa info...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=283506&page=1

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/126691/

[moonshot]

My 1in9 doesn't like it, especially in the winter. I may be buying a 1in7, and I know the BH 75gr OTM is where it's at, but from my 1in9, go with the TAP or go with the 68gr OTM?

I'm leaning towards the 68gr OTM - it's a lot less expensive than TAP ammo (I can actually afford to practice with it) and it seems to offer excellent performance.

It may not fragment as much as the TAP, but it seems to have better penetration.

I'd love to hear from any here with hard data (gel tests or street results).

[Jermtheory]

ive heard nothing but good things about the Black Hills.

but if you look arround you might be able to find the TAP in a 5.56 load...is yours chambered for 5.56?

[moonshot]

Yes it is, and no I can't

[BreacherUp!]

from the bodies I've seen, the 75g Tap (5.56) does wonders

[RockyMtnTactical]

I'm leaning towards the 68gr OTM

That's what I prefer. BTW, it is just about the best stuff you can get in 5.56, next to Sierra 77gr MK, Nosler 77gr, and Hornady 75gr OTM loads!!

Add in some good shot placement and I doubt you could tell a difference.

[jrothWA]

Reserve Deputy for Kent Cty, Michigan.
He indicated that TAP was all he used in his Ar-15.

[moonshot]

There seems to be a little confusion over what kind of TAP is available

Hornady markets three different kinds of TAP ammo...

The black box, black nickel-cased FPD line of TAP. This comes in .223 only. The 40gr, 55gr and 60gr are ballistic tip V-max bullets. The 75gr is an OTM. Again, .223 only.

The red box TAP Urban Load, marketed to LE (but not restricted to LE). Bullets are the same as above - 40gr, 55gr and 60gh are ballistic tip V-max bullets, only the 75gr is an OTM bullet. Again, .223 only.

The last TAP load is chambered in 5.56 NATO. I am not sure of the bullet weights available, nor the color of the box. The only round I am sure of is the 75gr OTM, and this is the round everyone says is awesome. It is also not available anywhere. Perhaps the military can get it, perhaps police on letterhead, but I've never seen it on any shelf.

The TAP I have is red box .223 in 60gr.

The 75gr I can get (still .223) won't always stabilize in my 1in9 barrel.

The 68gr OTM from Black Hills is also .223 only. Doesn't come in 5.56. Same for their 75gr OTM. It's the same bullet as the Hornady, but the Black Hills is loaded to .223 only.

[RockyMtnTactical]

I know it's not loaded in 5.56, sorry for the confusion, it's just a habit of mine to refer to AR15 loads as 5.56 although many of the higher grain OTM bullet loadings are technically only loaded to .223 standards. I am not confused, but I misspoke, Which could have lead to the confusion of others.

My primary defensive ammo collection is 5.56 XM193 and/or similar loadings. It's still fairly effective and much easier and cheaper to acquire.

I do have a little of the 68gr OTM by Black Hills. Very effective loading, although it is only .223. Still fragments out to nearly 200 yards in a 20" barrel. Very devastating stuff in gelatin. Has a good track record in real life as well, both on people as well as game such as deer.

[Jermtheory]

It is also not available anywhere. Perhaps the military can get it, perhaps police on letterhead, but I've never seen it on any shelf.


Ammunition To Go had it until recently(i think they just ran out).

its hard to come by,but not impossible.

i have only seen the 75gr though personally.

[stolivar]

3 deer all one shot all dropped on the spot. with the 60 gr Tap


steve