1911 is it 7 or 8?

[Mycle]

I just purchased my first 1991 a Dan Wesson Bob-tail 45 and I couldn't be happier with the gun. It appears to be a quality handgun and after a couple of visits to the Strickland range I'm amazed at its accuracy. But I have a lot to learn about using this gun. One of the questions that confuses me is what exactly is the capacity of this pistol. If you read the specs on the gun it states capacity as 7+1. I take that to mean 7 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber for a total of 8. I accepted this reasoning because this is a smaller Commander sized 1911. But the fact is the gun is shipped with two mags that have witness holes for 8 rounds. I have loaded 8 rounds in the mags and fired them all with no problems. So shouldn't the specs read 8+1? I'm sure there's a simple explanation but I don't get it. A little help please?


Mycle

[MLeake]

but recent years have seen the arrival of 8rd mags which have the same external dimensions. I guess they improved the springs and/or changed the shapes of the followers.

GI mags for your gun would hold 7 rounds. A lot of new, commercial mags will hold 8.

Cheers,

M

[Mycle]

Thanks for the reply. I have found that when I load the mags with the full 8 rounds it takes a lot more effort to seat the mag. Yesterday at the range I only loaded the mags with 7 rounds and the mags seated more easily so didn't have to bang the mag home.

Mycle

[Wildalaska]

Sequence: First mag, 7+1....second mag is 8 rounder....

WildpreventsjamsAlaska TM

[torpeau]

So shouldn't the specs read 8+1? I'm sure there's a simple explanation but I don't get it. A little help please?

That's a question I've had, too. Some 1911 specs say 7+1 and some say 8+1, so I guess the only difference is the magazines that come with these pistols, huh?

I have noticed this at Bud's and gun manufacturers' websites.

[Kreyzhorse]

That's a question I've had, too. Some 1911 specs say 7+1 and some say 8+1, so I guess the only difference is the magazines that come with these pistols, huh?

Correct. Most replacement mags hold 8 but you can still find 7 rounds mag if you prefer them.

[PT111]

Good point about having to bang the mag home with 8 rounds. I found that with my Taurus PT-111 it is spec'd for 12 rounds instead of the 13 rounds that I canput in it. However with the 13 rounds I can't get it to seat properly. It does make it handy that I can lock the slide back and seat the mag with 13 rounds, then release the slide loading one in the chamber. Makes the 12+1 definition even more meaningful. :D

[KyJim]

Government/Commander sized 1911s were designed with 7 round magazines. There are some magazines now built for 8 rounds. There is an ongoing debate about these because some shooters believe they are less reliable, especially over time. They will use 8 rounders for range use but not for real defense work. Others think they are fine.

One well respected magazine manufacturers is Tripp Research. They have built an 8-rounder by increasing the inside volume (length) of the magazine for the cartridges and springs. I haven't tried these yet but have been thinking about doing so. Their site has some good discussion/reference work on magazines at http://www.trippresearch.com/obi/techtalk.html

You might especially want to look at the 7 v. 8 article. Naturally, they think their's is the best but the information is very useful.

[Ditto_95]

There are frames manufactured that will only accept a seven round mag. Wilson Combat makes an officer sized frame that uses mags that can hold 6 rounds with one in the chamber.
That may be the difference.

[M1911]

I have three Tripp 10mm mags for my Delta Elite. Nice design to the mags. Crappy execution. Tripp stamped the caliber in the side of the magazine body. But they stamped it too hard, slightly bending the magazine body inward. As a result, only one of the magazines can be charged to capacity. And even with that magazine it is almost impossible to do so and the extreme upward force of the magazine spring noticeably slows slide velocity.

I will never do business with Tripp again. YMMV.

Wilson's ETM magazine appears to be very similar in design to the Tripp mag. The difference is that I know that I can trust Wilson's QA. I know that I CAN NOT trust Tripp's QA.

[MLeake]

swears by Chip McCormick mags; unfortunately, they are on serious backorder.

Going by what I saw at a couple gun shows, the McCormicks are very popular, and on backorder for everybody.

[KyJim]

M1911,

Did you return the magazine to Tripp or call them? Anybody and everybody sometimes makes a lemon. What counts is how many lemons and what do they do as customer service.

[KyJim]

Officer model sized frames

OP specified a Dan Wesson Bobtail which is Commander size (uses same mags as Government sized). The same debate exists about 6 vs. 7 round Officer mags (+1 in the chamber). I'm satisfied with 6+1 in my Sig I carry.

[torpeau]

Correct. Most replacement mags hold 8 but you can still find 7 rounds mag if you prefer them.

So, even though some manufacturers have 1911 .45s that say 7 rounds and some that say 8 rounds, they all will take 8 round magazines. Thanks for clearing that up.

[gc70]

JMB designed the 1911's magazines to hold 7 rounds. Manufacturers have expanded magazine capacity to 8 rounds in two ways: extending the length of the magazine tube to hold an 8th round, or; reducing the size of the 'innards' of the magazine to create space for an 8th round. The problem with an extended magazine tube is that it does not fit flush in the gun (problematic for some and not for others - YMMV). The problem with cramming an extra round into the same space is that reducing the size of the follower may result in instabilityand feeding problems and reducing the size/length of the spring may reduce spring pressure and feeding reliability.

[parrothead2581]

If JMB could have gotten an 8th round in there reliably, he would have.

Even the mags that aren't flush, aren't long enough to convince me they are as reliable as they can get.

Checkmate's new 8 round magazines look promising, as do Tripp's new Cobra's.

[Kreyzhorse]

So, even though some manufacturers have 1911 .45s that say 7 rounds and some that say 8 rounds, they all will take 8 round magazines.

Yes. I replaced my 7 round stock Springfield mags with 8 round Chip McCormicks. The 8 round mags run very well and are exactly the same size as my stock 7 round mags.

[Kermit]

Congrats on the new CBOB! I have had mine for a year now & love it! Congrats!!
As for the mags. I got mine w/ 2 generic 7 rounders but recently I've noticed they're being shipped w/ 8 round mags (that look like Chip McCormick mags), which might be a good thing because the mags I got are of questionable quality :cool:

[Bill DeShivs]

JMB "could" have gotten 8 rounds in the 1911 mag. He designed the mag for 7 rounds because 8 over compresses the spring-something new manufacturers haven't learned.

[M1911]

Did you return the magazine to Tripp or call them? Anybody and everybody sometimes makes a lemon. What counts is how many lemons and what do they do as customer service.

No, I did not. Instead, I ordered three 10mm magazines from Wilson. I have ordered dozens of products from Wilson and never had a single issue. I've ordered three from Tripp, 2 out of 3 were unusable and the third is marginal.

Wilson gets it right the first time.

I've spoken with a fellow who is a big fan of Tripp magazines, who then admits that Tripp's QA is sometimes an issue. Sorry, but life is too short for me to deal with that.

[Technosavant]

Different guns play nice with different mags. The 1911 is more magazine-dependent than other designs. Some guns will run well with any mag you put in there. Others get finicky and won't work with some. For some people, Wilsons are just the ticket. For others, they don't work. I prefer to use Chip McCormick PowerMags in mine, and I've never had so much as a hiccup.

So long as it works in your gun, I wouldn't worry about what people on the internet say. Some consider it heresy to run anything other than GI style 7 rounders. Others are interested in having that extra round and have tried and found perfectly good 8 round mags.

I usually tell folks that whatever they do to buy quality magazines and not $5 gun show GI milsurps (unless you replace the springs and often followers in those). If you want to go 8 rounds, start by buying ONE of a given kind until range visits show you that they work reliably. Then, and only then, should you buy a bunch. You don't want to sink a hundred bucks or more into a particular mag design only to find out that they don't function reliably.

[RickB]

One place where 8-round mags are used to the exclusion of 7-rounders, is practical competition. 8-round mags have been available for about twenty years, and everyone uses them. If they didn't work, they would be quickly discarded for something that did. I used McCormick mags exclusively for fifteen years, then added a couple of Novak's, which I think are a superior design, but weak in execution. Among flush-fit 8-rounders, Checkmate Industries makes what I think is the best design, but it's too early to tell about the execution. They are soon to release a mag with extended tube and spring (the mag is extended to the same overall length as a flush-fit mag with basepad, so if you have pads on all of your mags, you won't notice the difference), stable follower, and improved feedlip design. This new mag will be state of the art, if the quality is good.

[MSgt G]

Don't tell anyone you got the 8+1 mags by mistake or you could be receiving a bill in the mail any day now. :D

[KyJim]

There are a number of good brands of magazines. These include Colt OEM (but beware of forgeries). The Colt mags have been manufactured by Checkmate, Metalform and Okay Industries. Wilson, Tripp, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Chip McCormick, MecGar, Act, Wolff, Pachmayer, all make quality mags (I think MecGar may manufacture for a couple of the others). A lot of people love Wilson.

Stay away from Pro-Mag, National, supposed "GI" mags, and any "too good to be true" magazines. If you have an aluminum frame, stay away from McCormick mags or other mags with devel followers.

[zebulonsmith]

I've been shooting IDPA with Kimber 8 round mags for two years now. No failures of any kind, even dropping them in the dirt on a regular basis. They do take a little more of a tap to get them to seat well.

[ShelbyV8]

When JMB designed the 7 round magazines metallurgy was almost 100 years behind today. Springs can be made with fewer coils and a smaller diameter wire and still be stronger than JMB's mag springs from back in the day.

[Bill DeShivs]

There actually has been very little improvement in spring making in the last 100 years. Could you specifically point any improvements out?