View Full Version : ammo effect on two guns
45Dave
February 20, 2008, 10:40 AM
My son is home on leave and we had a chance to run out and do a bit of shooting. I purchased range ammo in 9mm, 100 rounds of Bellers and Selott (pardon the spelling guys) and I had a half a box of winchester white box still around. With both the XD and my Sig 226 my son was shooting about three inches to the left with the B & S ammo but when he switched to the Winchester his groups went back to dead center. Also both guns occasinally failed to lock open with the B & S ammo. Never have had this experience with ammo making this big of a change windage wise. Oh..we were shooting at 15 yards. I shot a bit mabye three inches left with the problem ammo and was dead center with winchester. Looks like I am going to be a bit more fussy with range ammo in the future.
Double Naught Spy
February 20, 2008, 06:42 PM
Its S&B and not B&S ammo. There is no reason the ammo should have been shooting that far off at that distance. Something isn't right, but the fault should not be with the ammo.
BigJimP
February 20, 2008, 08:07 PM
Sellier & Bellot is an ammunition company in the Czech republic.
It's inexpensive - and it doesn't surprise me that you were getting bigger groups with S&B ammo compared to Winchester. I'm not trying to say Winchester is perfect / but S&B is kind of the bottom of the barrel in terms of handgun ammo. It's cheap / just fine for playing around at the range.
Every gun has some preferences for a particular load / which is why a lot of us reload and tailor our rounds to what our guns like.
Boris Bush
February 20, 2008, 08:30 PM
BigJimP
S&B is not bottom of the barrel. I use it for my carry ammo in two of my pistols!! CIP standards are hotter than SAAMI standards and 7.65 Browning ammo IS hotter. My CZ-82 eats 9mm Makarov S&B also. These two calibers are the most accurate, consistant, and powerful when I shoot S&B.
It might be cheap, but it is darn good, especialy when you shoot european calibers that are under loaded by domestic ammo companies.
1SOW
February 20, 2008, 10:19 PM
S&B 9mm ammo: On another thread a discussion came up about steel & aluminum cases vs FTEs. I contacted S&B and asked about their 9mm Luger cases. They answered and said their 9mm is their only steel cased ammo and that it used to be copper coated steel, but they were now coating them in brass to keep costs down.
45 Dave said:
Also both guns occasinally failed to lock open with the B & S ammo.
Sounds like his Sig and XD didn't operate the same with the S&B ammo
The White box is all brass.
OR Grip or trigger pull vs recoil different?
Double Naught Spy
February 20, 2008, 10:55 PM
and it doesn't surprise me that you were getting bigger groups with S&B ammo compared to Winchester
He didn't say he was getting bigger groups with S&B. He didn't mention groups sizes. What he said was that the S&B was grouping to the left.
44 AMP
February 21, 2008, 01:21 AM
But were both ammo brands the same bullet weight? Also, you mention the S&B was "range ammo" could they have been reloads, using S&B cases?
3 inches to the left at 15 yards is unusual, usualy any deviation from different ammo brands is not so extreme, but it is not entirely outside possibility, depending on the quirks of the guns, sights and ammo. I once had a .357 Mag SA revolver with fixed sights (Hawes, I think, but no longer remember clearly, only that it was not a major maker's gun), and it shot perfect point of aim at about 20 yards with 158gr .38SPL. All .357 Mag loads shot about 4 inches to the right, and from 2 to 3 inches high or low, depending on bullet weight. Wierd, but it happened. Couldn't find anything wrong with the gun, or the ammo, which shot just fine in other guns. Dead on accurate with one load, and all over the place with everything else.
It ain't common, but it happens.
Dave85
February 21, 2008, 01:35 AM
I have had good experience with S&B. A bad lot is also a possibility.
chris in va
February 21, 2008, 03:51 AM
There's only one way to be sure it was the ammo. Shoot off sandbags on a bench.
oldcspsarge
February 24, 2008, 05:31 PM
S&B is good clean 9mm but is loaded hotter than Winchester white box...some pistols shoot to a different point of impact due to the additional velocity of the European load VS US SAAMI load.
Last case of S&B I shot was cleaner than Win USA on the pistols and in the brass residue.
45Dave
February 24, 2008, 05:44 PM
first of all, I would like to apologize for getting name of the ammo backwards, not trying to be cute just did not take the time to put it down right. Bigjim, thanks for the correct spelling and correct name and shame on me.
Same shooter, same hold, same gun groups with the S & B was aprox 5 inches, groups with winchester was aprox 3 inches at 15 yards but the point of impact and failure to lock open was a huge surprise.
It was not the cheapest ammo at the range rather a mid range and in past times I have used the ammo it shot fine, the ammo was factory ammo and not reloads. I am leaning toward the suggestion a lot issue.
Sarg, interesting it has faster velocity.
DMK
February 24, 2008, 07:16 PM
Guns often have ammo preferences. If you peruse gun tests in magazines (the ones where they shoot for groups, like in American Rifleman) and compare a few you'll see some guns shoot terribly with a certain brand and another gun will shoot great with the same brand and caliber.
My CZ75 shoots S&B great. Right to POA. In fact, CZ uses S&B ammo in their factory to test their guns. I can't discern any difference in accuracy between S&B, CCI Blazer or Winchester White box. Out of all of them, I've had the most bad rounds from the Winchester though (high primers, damaged brass, bullets seated incorrectly).
My only other 9mm is a Star B and it shoots S&B pretty good, but it doesn't have the best sights in the world.
I contacted S&B and asked about their 9mm Luger cases. They answered and said their 9mm is their only steel cased ammo and that it used to be copper coated steel, but they were now coating them in brass to keep costs down. That's interesting. I have about three 50 cal ammo cans filled with S&B 9mm. All have brass cases, no steel. Then again, I haven't bought any in at least a year or two so maybe this is something new.
CraigJS
February 24, 2008, 07:49 PM
I was looking at some ammo on line and they had S&B at two different prices. One was brass cased and the cheaper (not a lot cheaper) was a steel case with some type of coating.. This was in the last few days.
Be safe, CraigJS
Here: http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/9mm_ammo.html
About 1.50 difference..
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