1885 Highwall in .225 winchester

[JohnnyCash1979]

Hello everyone, I need your thoughts and opionions on a rifle I am planning to order. I talked to C.Sharps and they told me they could build the rifle I want [1885Highwall] chambered in .225winchester. As any one ever seen,shot,owned I of there rifles? I have read some bad things about them but I have also read good things about them. I just would like to what u think. I was considering going with a Ballard, but from what I have seen C.Sharps can build me a really nice gun at a cheaper price. I just want to make sure this rifle looks good and shoots good. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[ocharry]

i waited 5 years on a 74,,,and he had all the money,,,, heard a lot of BS as to why it was taking so long,,,,finally cancelled and then it took about 6 months to get the money back,,,the dealer finally refunded and he kept the order,, don't know that he ever got it,, we are good friends and he never said anything about it

on the other hand i do have 2 of John's model 75's and they do shoot nice,, i think he uses Badger Barrels

as for the warranty,, i was at a match with one of the 75's and was doing really well,, and broke a firing pin,, called him and told him the problem and ask if the life time warranty would cover it and the response was,,,no,, you have to buy new tires for your car when they wear out don't you,,, so just what the life time warranty to the original owner means,,,, i don't know,,,,i do know firing pins are not part of the life time

i would not get in a hurry if you decide to order from him

if i wanted a really nice highwall,,, i would call Steve Meacham and have him build you a rifle,,,, that's what i did with the money i got back from my canceled order at C. Sharps and i have never regretted it nor have i looked back

that's my story and my .02 YMMV but i doubt it

ocharry

[steveno]

I don't know about the rifle but I would lay in a big supply of brass and/or ammo because you would have to wonder how long Winchester will continue brass and ammo. they haven't chambered a rifle in 225 for a long time

[bobn]

e aurther brown in 219 zipper would be my chioce......bobn

[Scorch]

Maybe I'm just different, but if I wanted a nice highwall (which I do), I would buy a Browning or Winchester 1885 and rebarrel it. I don't know about 225 Winchester, though. It's and OK round, and Winchester just retooled and has begun making brass for it again, but with the same effort and components you can shoot a 220 Swift, a 22-250, or any cartridge of your choice, and not have the issues finding brass.

[JohnnyCash1979]

Has anyone seen a 1885 C.Sharps in person?

[Jim Watson]

Yup. Looked like a good solid gun and shot well with its Badger barrel. The Ball-Walls are prettier, more like a real Winchester, though.

[bfoster]

I have an original High Wall in which Hoyer installed a .224 liner in its' #3 barrel back in the late 30's. The chambering is 219 Zipper. Given that target blocks were installed (along with a Lyman 10X Targetspot) the rifle may have seen some use in competition.This old rifle is still capable of shooting 3/4" groups (@ 100 yds) consistently- today this would not by any means be competitive in benchrest, but it is as good as an average new production grade varmint class rifle from the major manufacturers. 121 years after it was made (as a 40-82) the action and lockwork are still in very good order.

I also have an original Ballard #4 (J.M. Marlin) barreled by Zischang, and chambered in 32-47. This 14 pound rifle was probably made for scheützen benchrest as there is no evidence of a palm rest ever having been used, and the rifle (having a "hunting" type stock) is ungainly to shoot in either the standing or offhand position. The original barrel, which I have is for 38-50, it has rifling suitable for paper patch bullets, not lubricated bullets. If I take my time- sometimes with the Oklahoma wind it's all afternoon- I can usually produce a group of about 1 1/2" @ 200 yds, sometimes close enough to 1" to lead me to believe that I've not rediscovered (or correctly applied) all the loading and handling techniques used by the shooters about a hundred years ago.

As a man who spent about twenty years in the firearms industry designing production tooling (with some input on arms design) before a career change, it's my opinion that the original Winchester action is considerably more robust than the original Ballard action. Use of modern materials and heat treatment will make modern "replicas" of both actions considerably stronger (the Ballards and early Winchesters will gain more than late production Winchesters). Modern Ballards perform well and are safe when chambered for any reasonable cartridge choice, however, to paraphrase what Bernoulli said about Newton's solution to a problem, the high wall bears the mark of the lion- J.M. Browning. The high wall is the sort of design a mechanical engineer describes as elegant- simple, extremely durable, and safe.

I've seen and shot a couple examples of Meacham's rifles, they're first class. I will note in passing that Meacham's comment on his web site about the 15/16-16 threads isn't complete- the #1 & #2 barrels (used for small, low pressure cartridges) often had a smaller thread- 0.825-16, a few of the larger barrels (#4 & #5) had larger threads than the 15/16-16 standard.

The original Ballard standard thread, IIRC, was 0.950-20. Since some modern Ballards are offered in high pressure chamberings (some for belted magnum cartridges) I'd expect to find that the threads (and perhaps the action in this area) have been slightly enlarged. I have handled a recent Ballard arms "1875" (#5), but I have neither measured nor disassembled this rifle so treat the preceding sentence as informed (but possibly incorrect) speculation based on current manufacturing practice.

Were I interested in commisioning a modern single shot replica chambered in 225 Winchester I'd prefer a rifle based on the Winchester 1885 (an improvement on the original Browning 1878) to a rifle based on the Ballard 1861 or 1875 because the breeching will probably brmore durable, the lockwork simpler, and the ejection mechanism stouter- a consideration if this is to be used as a varmint rifle where your ammunition may well get warmed by the sun...

regards,

Bob

[Martyn4802]

Good posting Bob!!!
Also, the 225 Winchester is a fine round.

Don

[JohnnyCash1979]

bfoster, would a 1885 C.Sharps be a good rifle then? I am sure that I can upgrade the wood etc., and make it a fine looking rifle. I just want to make sure it shoots good. Is there rifle based on the winchester? Thanks

[Jim Watson]

Bob,

The Winchester is stronger than the Ballard no doubt about it.
However, the modern Ballard Rifle Co., now relocated from Wyoming to Michigan, builds faithful copies of the Winchester 1885 Single Shot, vulgarly known as the Highwall, as well as the Ballard. Hence the slang term, "Ball-Wall" for a Highwall repro made by Ballard.

Johnny,

The C. Sharps 1885 is closely based on the Winchester.

[ocharry]

Scorch you are right on with the browning or the Winchester highwall,, i have 3 of the Browning flavor and if i were going to build on one of them in this 225 or around that cal. i would use the Traditional Hunter mod. for the base,,,,,the one i have is like they used me for the guy they built the thing for,,,it is truly like a custom fit..i think i could shoot the thing blind folded..i have 2 of the BPCG guns and they are really nice too and for the price they are going for,,,,i don't think i would take one apart to build something else

i would guess that by the time you found and bought one of them and had it re barreled you would have $2000+++ plus in the rifle and you still need glass if you are so inclined

not a cheap venture no matter how you slice it

you also get some things on a Ballard or Meacham you may or may not get on other versions of the Highwall

like set triggers,,,and too like in my Meacham it has 3/8" cast off in the stock,,,i'm sure there could be other things in a custom gun

while i will say that Mr. Shoffstall builds an nice gun he has the personality of a crocodile(this is just my opinion and experience with him)

again my .02

ocharry

[Sekim]

General Info........... The .225 was to replace the .220 Swift in 1964, but it was run out of town by Remington's .22-250 which is a little better round. To my luck and others, the cases and dies are still available at a fair price. I had built many years ago a .225 on a Martini Cadet action with a 22" bull barrel and it has served me quite well for the past 30 years. My best load, (contuinues to cut holes at 100 yds.) is 35 grs. of H414.......pressure is down and moves out at around 3700 with a spread of only 8 FPS. Building a rifle for this round today, I wouldent do............only because the .22-250 is really a great round. Myself, if I were to start over, would pick up a Browning 78 with a bull barrel in the .22-250. Hope this is of some interest to all.

Sekim (Mike)

[publius]

As mentioned before, I would get a Win. or browning 1885 and get it rebarreled. I think you have a great idea, a .225 in a highwall would be super cool. I may use your idea.

[nate45]

The .225 was to replace the .220 Swift in 1964, but it was run out of town by Remington's .22-250 which is a little better round.

I would get a Win. or browning and get it rebarreled

Or you could just get a Browning 1885 in .22-250.
http://www.theothersideofkim.com/images/uploads/2005files/Browning_1885_45-70.jpg

I did like the .225 though I remember my Dad having a 'new' Model 70 in .225 it was very accurate.