Best .380 semiautomatic?

[gunnie12]

Reliability, takedown trigger pull, etc?

Experiences and comments?

Thanks in advance.

[HisSoldier]

Are you wanting a small backup or is it going to be primary carry? Do you want a SA trigger? I like my S&W PPK/S, the SA trigger is very nice, and it's accurate. purdy too. I've got a Llama that is a bit rough but very reliable, 1911 except for the extractor and size. I've got a Star that's nice, a bit larger. Neither of them has as good a trigger as the PPK/S. I own 14 or 15 .380's, only one made of plastic garbage and none of alumicrud. I don't trust my Kel-Tec. NAA Guardian is good DAO, not too accurate with the trigger and shortness. Government model Colt .380, not outstanding accuracy, and no where near a 1911 in design, more related to the Star internally. The Colt Mustang does seem to have trouble keeping it's recoil spring, as someone else said. The Gov't model probably not that way as it's longer. All just my opinions based on experiences.

[kayakersteve]

But, I sure like my Walther PPK - I had owned it for >15 years and it shoots as well today as it did when I bought it. Some people complain of slide bite with these, but I have never gotten bitten by it.
http://www.kayakforfun.com/images/600_gunPPK10.JPG

[Capt. Dixie]

Try a Sphinx .380 if you can find one. They are no longer imported although there were rumors they might be imported once again.

[MotoIdaho]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276029

[dairycreek]

I am really put off by the posts that ask for the "best" of anything. But, having said that, when the term "best" is raised and coupled with a 380 auto it is really hard to overlook the SIG P232 stainless.
http://www.sigsauer.com/images/catalog/product/232left.jpg

This is just an excellent piece of firearms engineering and artistry.

[Playboypenguin]

The Sig p232 is supposedly a very nice pistol and I do love my Smith version PPK and PPK/S pistols...but I will have to say my favorite is my Beretta 84FS Cheetah.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/PlayboyPenguin/Handgun%20collection/Beretta84FS.jpg

[BillCA]

+1 with PlayboyPenguin. I like the Beretta 84 & 85 models for a reliable pistol. I think it's the 85 that has the tip-up barrel (now discontinued I hear) for those without the strength to run the slide for the first round.

Downside is that these are pretty large pistols for a .380. I used to have a Colt .380 Mustang Plus II that was tiny, flat and ran well, but these are now too expensive and hard to find.

[Nanotech]

Without a doubt, dairycreek is absolutely correct. The SIG Sauer P230 / P232 is one of the finest small pistols ever made. Its size, mass, and design are perfectly suited to the .380 ACP cartridge. Similar to other small-frame, small-caliber pistols, it has a fixed barrel that is mounted directly to the frame. One of its unique features is that the operating controls are almost identical to the large-frame SIG Sauer pistols. If you have any other SIGs, the "manual of arms" is similar. It has a decocking lever like the other SIGs, but lacks an external slide release. There is no manual safety. It also has a heel-type magazine release, which for deep concealment helps prevent inadvertently dropping your magazine. The hammer is external, but is very nicely shaped to avoid snagging. Both the DA and SA trigger pulls are also excellent. For take-down, simply verify the magazine is removed and the chamber is clear, flip the take-down lever on the left side of the frame, and retract the slide while pulling it up off of the frame. The build-quality, materials, and finish of these pistols is magnificent. Mine is an all stainless P230SL, which I prefer for concealed carry purposes. After a short break-in session (100 rounds), reliability has been perfect. If weight is an absolute concern, the pistol is also available in a blued slide / alloy frame variant.

I hope this helps with your decision!

-Nanotech

[Eddie C-clamp]

For deep concealment there is no better choice than the LWS .380 (Seecamp). But its not a range gun. Too "snappy" for that. Just my opinion tho........

[DBski]

I have a Browning BDA 380 and a Bersa Thunder 380, my choice is the Bersa. After the Browning has been back to factory many times I still don't trust it. (FTF, FTE) It feels good in hand but not reliable. Fun to shoot, but won't bet my life on it. Whereas the Bersa had not failed me yet. Not as refined, very reliable. Accrurate enough for it's intended purpose. Easy to clean and a darn good price.

[Ivory Grips]

1. Bersa Thunder .380

2. Beretta 84 & 85

[bluetopper]

The Makarov in .380 caliber.
Dependability, ease of disassembly and accuracy makes it a great choice.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/bendebval/724971.jpg

[Ivory Grips]

I have to agree, the Beretta is one hell of a .380
I had I believe, a model 85. It had a single stack magazine. What I remember most was how utterly smooth this gun cycled. Looking to buy another one. I like the very nice pic of your Beretta.

[garyl43]

Man I'm drooling over that Beretta 84FS PBP!

[Playboypenguin]

I like the very nice pic of your Beretta.
Man I'm drooling over that Beretta 84FS PBP!
The pics don't do it justice. it is even more beautiful in person...and the smoothest .380 I have ever shot. You would swear you are shooting a cap gun. :)

[PSP]

I really like the .380 and in particular many of the pistols chambered for the round. I own now or have owned the following;

Beretta 84 - This is the best. best reliability, best accuracy, best trigger. A+
Beretta 85 - Just a slimmer version of the above. No tip up barrel though (model 86). A+
Sphinx AT 380 - A very well made pistol based on the CZ82. Nice DAO trigger. A
Sig P232 - A very nice pistol, Best take down, accurate, slim. A

Walther PPK - A great design, but a heavy DA trigger, accurate, but harsh. A-
Bersa T380 - An OK gun. A good design made on the cheap. B
Astra Constable - A well made PPK clone. B
CZ83 - Accurate, great trigger, heavy, poor sights. B-
I have a E. German Mak but it's in 9mm Mak, but the .380 would be little different. These are nice guns...I like mine, but they are very simple, too simple, have horrible sights and heavy triggers. B-

IMHO the Beretta stands alone. It is unbelievably reliable. It is the only one I'd rate as a duty quality sidearm. With night sights and any of the four available grips, this pistol is ready to go to war. The full grip on either the 84 or 85 lends itself to easy, natural pointing, shooting and fast follow-on shots. Fit, finish and material quality are tops. The only one with a military ready chrome lined barrel.

I'd post a pic of my beloved 84 but PBP's is way prettier. Mine is scared and scratched from many years of service, but I think it's beautiful.

[Playboypenguin]

Beretta 84 - This is the best. best reliability, best accuracy, best trigger. A+
I agree...I am betting that many that are saying Bersa or Sig have never had much experience with the Beretta m84 or m85. :)

[Moe Howard]

I have had several .380s over the years. Right now I have a Bersa and a Beretta 84. I will agree with other posts above mine, the Beretta 84 is the finest .380 (IMHO) that money can buy. I even like it a little better than the Browning BDA I had ( almost the same as the Beretta). I have never shot the Sig but am very interested in taking one for a test drive.

[ROCK6]

I agree...I am betting that many that are saying Bersa or Sig have never had much experience with the Beretta m84 or m85.

This I agree with this. My wife has a Bersa .380 which is a great pistol for wat it is, but I've handled the Beretta 84 and Browning BDA .380...both are extremely outstanding .380 pistols and few compare.

ROCK6

[Mac Attack]

Colt Mustang or
Colt 1908

[GeorgeF]

For concealability, comfort, reliability - Colt Mustang Pocketlite. I can fire it all day long with its locked breach. At 13 oz it is super concealable too.

For comfort, accuracy and old school looks - Browning BDA. Super nice to shoot and real classic piece.

Have not fired the Beretta yet but I bet it would be akin to to the BDA.

[theberettaman]

Have not fired the Beretta yet but I bet it would be akin to to the BDA.

You'd be right.Seeing as they were both made by Beretta.:)

[cheesesteak]

One more vote tor the Beretta 84f Cheetah

[pistolet1]

Colt Mustang

[kayakersteve]

Have you done size comparison photos comparing the beretta 84 to others, especially the PPK? I have seen some pics that you did in the past; just cant remember where to find them.

[Playboypenguin]

Have you done size comparison photos comparing the beretta 84 to others, especially the PPK? I have seen some pics that you did in the past; just cant remember where to find them.
No Cheetah pics but here are the others...

http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/PlayboyPenguin/Gun%20comps/

[kayakersteve]

Thanks! That's what I was looking for.

[MJZZZ]

The only .380 I would own is my Colt Govt Mark IV. It was an everyday carry for me until I bought my Kimber Ultra CDP. It still sees occasional use in a shoulder holster for car carry. Mike

[bubba182]

I bought the Beretta Cheetah 84FS for my summer carry gun and couldn't be more pleased. It's accurate, has a 13 round magazine and I like the decocker safety feature. It conceals real well using a galco owb holster. I didn't get the stainless model like PBP but still think it's very attractive.

[NCHornet]

Hands down the Sig P232!!!

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/NCHornet/2-20-07005.jpg

[OneClownDown]

Another vote for the Beretta 84. I have owned a Sig 232 and Walther PPK, neither shoot anywhere near as nice as the Beretta does.

[IMTHDUKE]

if I want a 380 just to drop in my pocket holster and not be bothered with any bulk

http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com/images/GUNS/mustang.jpg

[rmeron]

I like the Russian Makarov IJ70-17A

[DAdams]

I have two extremes. BERSA BT 380, which is no SIG I guess but I have over 700 rounds through it, it is accurate, and is a SA/DA with decock. It's my "truck" gun with 10 rounds. If it or the truck disappears I'm not out much money. >$300.

The other .380 is a Seecamp. A masterpiece. Not a great deal of fun to shoot, but a great carry with a respectable round. It's stoked with SGD. <$800.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/dmadams/P1290026.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/dmadams/P9240005.jpg

[DrLaw]

Mauser HSc. I had one once in .380 (it also came in .32). It was a very accurate little gun, once putting three shots in a single hole group for me at 21 feet. The one bad habit it had was the hammer pinching me from time to time. :eek:

I sold it. Regreted that ever since, and finally found another in better condition and bought it. :D

Two others worth a look would be the Browning 1910 or Ortgies. Both are striker fired blowbacks, but quality guns.

The Doc is out now. :cool:

PS, it was my off-duty carry gun. I trusted it that much. Of course, that was in the era before the SIG and slightly before the fanicer Berettas. Gotta try one of them someday.

[turbojohn]

Eddie C-camp and DAdams...I found a way around the "too-much hand trauma/jumping" in shooting the .380 seecamp. The pistol was designed for .25 and when it moved to the .380, there is just not enough pistol grip for the shooting hand to accomodate the more explosive shell. I added on a small 1/4" aluminum finger extension to the front portion of the mag which now allows both the middle finger and the ring finger to grip the pistol. Whereas without the extender, you had to shoot the pistol with just the middle finger. Along with the less hand-redness, repeated shot position is now much improved. Concealment is not changed with such a small extension. Although not so necessary, having it on my .32 seecamp has made a big difference there too with multiple firing at the range.

[xrocket]

Great idea T'John. Why don't you post up some pic's for all to see and a "how to".

[chez323]

I've no experience with the other 380's mentioned but I did own an Bersa 380 for a while. It was a fun gun to shoot, very accurate and felt good in my hand. However it had issues with failure to feed. I would not recommend that gun to anyone. I've never managed a trip to the range without out several ftf's. Didn't matter what type or brand of ammo, clip (bought several).

[computerguysd]

I'm partial to Sigs, particularly the P232. That's why I had to get 2 of them :p

[Shadi Khalil]

another vote for the sig....

Hey PBP,

Is that berreta a tip up?

[kjshank1]

I've never shot any other .380s, but i shoot a russian ij70 alot and its pretty sweet. The only things that will jam it up is a squib/dud.

[Playboypenguin]

Is that berreta a tip up?
Nope, the standard barrel. Just like a baby 92. :)

[skeeter1]

If I were you (and clearly I'm not) I'd look around for a good, used Beretta model 86 or 87 in .380. Won't be cheap, but neither is the quality. You get what you pay for.

[denfoote]

Move out of the way, Sig. ;)

The Walther blitzkrieg is coming through!! :p

Heil Fritz!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/denfoote/NewPPKGrips001small.jpg


:cool:

[Pilot]

I own and carry both a Beretta M85FS and Makarov in .380. Both are accurate and reliable. Nothing wrong with the Sig P230/232 either.

[PSP]

skeeter1 said,

If I were you (and clearly I'm not) I'd look around for a good, used Beretta model 86 or 87 in .380. Won't be cheap, but neither is the quality. You get what you pay for.

Just to be clear; The model 86 is the tip-up barrel version and it came in .380 acp. I think the model 86 is out of production. The model 87 is the .22lr. version and does not come in .380, nor is it a tip-up barrel. The model 84 is a double stack magazine .380, while the model 85 is the same pistol with a single stack magazine. These three models are still produced.

The Browning BDA is a very similar pistol, the main differences being a closed, full slide and the safety is slide mounted. These came in .32 acp as well as .380 acp.

You are dead on the X ring about quality and price. The Sig and the Sphinx are also exceptional pistols, but have foibles. The Beretta has none.

[computerguysd]

I first considered the mag release on the Sig P232 a "foible" because it wasn't what I was used to and it initially slowed me down when swapping magazines.

After I got used to it, I'll second "Nanotech" in considering it a plus, as the having the magazine release in the heal helps to prevent inadvertently releasing a magazine when carrying concealed. :D

[dogtown tom]

I've been a .380 fan since I was in high school. I've owned at least nine different models of .380's and currently have these. Opinions are mine and are not for sale. Your mileage may vary.............. :)


The first gun I ever bought with my own $$$ was a Remington Model 51 .380, paid $75 for it in about 1973 or '74.

I would throw this out as the BEST .380 except for:
-it went out of production in the 1920's & parts are getting scarce.
-the thumb safety is miniscule.

What is better:
-THIN! It is flatter than my NAA Guardian .380
-Reliable. Has NEVER failed to feed, fire, extract or eject in the 1,000+ rounds of assorted US and foreign ammo put through it.
-Recoil, almost non existant due to the Pederson system. Less than the larger Browning BDA.
ERGONOMICS- Until you hold one you don't know how perfect it is.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/dogtowntom/DSCF0043.jpg


Best SMALL .380 for those who find the Seecamp batters their fingers or the Kel Tec P3AT is too unreliable? The North American Arms Guardian.

What needs to be addressed?
-Although the weight makes it easier to shoot, it could lose a few ounces.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/dogtowntom/DSCF0068.jpg

Best looks? The Browning BDA or Beretta 84. You can't beat real wood on a handgun. Mine is wearing my "carry grips" that are pretty chewed up.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/dogtowntom/DSCF0089.jpg

Want classic John M. Browning design and fairly inexpensive to boot?
FN Browning Model 1910 or 1955 (same gun).
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/dogtowntom/DSCF0057.jpg

I've also owned or fired these .380's:
Star Super SM- Best of the Spanish pistols! Regret selling it.
Colt Government Model- awesome if you want cocked & locked.
Colt Mustang- ditto above
Kel Tec P3AT- nice idea, nice price, not so nice reliability without fluff & buff.
Sig 232- Too heavy & bulky for a single stack. Too expensive as well. the stainless is a nice option.
Beretta 85- single stack version of 84.
Browning 1922- same gun as 1910/55, but longer barrel & grip.
PPKs- wanted to like it, but it didn't like me.
Bersa- what a great gun for the money! Maybe one of the best gun values out there.
Makarov- that had been converted to .380. Uhhhh.......no thanks.
CZ82- If you want a 9x18 Mak get this while they're cheap. C&R too!

[HDRIDER]

No question at all, my Bersa Thunder 380cc :D

[PSP]

dogtown tom,
That's a nice collection. Your BDA pic reminds me of my recently retired Model 84. The picture hides much of it's "character". It has more scars than a blind knife throwers assistant.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Beretta84.jpg

[zbordas]

+1 on Bersa Thunder 380.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/280cf10165.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[PSP]

A little off topic, but still in the spirit...

I was wondering if any of the .380 aficianados here has any experience with the Daewoo DH380? The Koreans are known to make a very good military weapon and I wondered if this skill translated to the little .380 as well.

[torpeau]

http://home.earthlink.net/~telem/P232Marschalko.jpg

[Que]

For me the Sig 232.

I have heard great things about the Beretta Model 70S, and have just acquired one, but have yet to shoot it.

[ProstheticConscience]

I had (sigh) an Italian built Beretta 85 that was the best feeling gun I've ever held. Divorce etc. took the gun from my sweaty mitts, but if I ever find another of the same provenance I'll buy it in a heartbeat.

If the chance ever comes and you haven't shot one, please don't pass it by.

[DrLaw]

Mauser HSc, Interarms import
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb53/DrLaw45/HSc.jpg
The Doc is out now. :cool:

[torpeau]

Mauser HSc, Interarms import
A fine, sleek-looking little pistol
http://home.earthlink.net/~telem/Mauser_HSc.JPG

[Texas Armadillo]

SIG P232. But after reading this thread I would like to try out a Beretta.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h10/jspradling7/P232.jpg

[guypowell]

While my Walther PPK/S is certainly a wonderful little pistol I can do the same, AND for a LOT less, with my Bersa 380. The Bersa's had about 2,500 rounds through it and has never failed. Now, if you want a 380 with collector's appeal, you can't beat a Makarov 380. That one is the favorite of all my pistols to shoot. The cheapest though is still the Bersa.

[johnboy1981]

Just took my new Bersa Thunder .380 to the range today. I put about 100 rounds through it without any problems. I love this little gun.

[coastie24]

i have to agree with the bersa... fun little gun!

[Tom2]

Walther to look at, Beretta or Sig to shoot. Bersas if you are low budget but want decent gun. Colt if you want a collectable that is going up in value and too dear to actually shoot. All others considered novelties collectables or toys. How is that for right to the point?

[PSP]

All others considered novelties collectables or toys. How is that for right to the point?

That's OK except that you left out the CZ83, which in some ways is superior to the Bersa. I'll conceed the Sphinx AT 380 is a novelty.

[ZeSpectre]

I was seriously considering the SIG 232 as well as the Bersa Thunder 380 and just couldn't quite make up my mind, then I stumbled upon the Bersa Thunder 380 "Concealed Carry" model when someone let me shoot it at the range.

BINGO, something about the pistol just clicked with me and I've been very happy with it since.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/zespectre/thun380_CC_mid.jpg

Oh and just an fyi, any holster for a single stack 4" 1911 works GREAT for this pistol!

[Playboypenguin]

I stumbled upon the Bersa Thunder 380 "Concealed Carry" model when someone let me shoot it at the range.

BINGO, something about the pistol just clicked with me and I've been very happy with it since.
The Bersa is not something you would buy if you were wanting a "fine firearm" or anything to hand down to your kids but they do have some very good selling features and seem to be very capable of filling the position of a seldom used carry weapon.

[ZeSpectre]

Probably accurate. I suppose I shouldn't list the T380CC as a "best gun", especially when matched up against the SIG. But it's still a GOOD gun :)

[femurman]

I have a Llama .380 that's like a "Honey I Shrunk The Colt 1911." It's actually a mini-1911 in every respect, except it fires the .380 round. This is the best .380 I've ever owned, and I've owned several over the years. The Llama .380's will feed, function and fire with any ammo. I had a little problem with hollow point ammo in the beginning, but I took a Dremel Tool and polished the feed ramp, chamber and the slide & frame rails. Once I did this, the gun was like a stock motor that had a blower put on the intake manifold. LOL These little guns are very light, very thin, very concealable and very reliable. Anyone who likes the full-size 1911's will appreciate this pistol. I recommend them for anyone who likes concealability and they are especially suited as defense weapons for the ladies. My Wife and Sis-In-Laws fired my CZ-82 and liked it, but they fell in love with the Llama .380. You just need to make sure they know and understand the concept of single action. Once they get the hang of it... Criminals Beware!

[Northslope Nimrod]

I think I have owned some of the best:

1. Colt .380 Government, Government Pocket-lite, Mustang: I have owned all three. LOVE THEM. LOVE THEM. I currently have two Gov Models because they were in the best condition. Very sleek. Very smooth action. Very nice trigger. Great for follow-up shots. Never a problem.

2. Bersa .380 cc: I have the cc model which is very nice for pocket-carry. It shoots pretty good. The double action pull is fairly hefty. It doesn't compare to my Colts, but it is 100% reliable. Great $250 gun. They cost a little more now. Wish they came with two mags. Extra mag increases price $30.

3. Beretta 84: I think that is the model number. It was double stack. Built solid, but too heavy for my liking....especially in .380. Not great for CCW. Sold it.

[Tatsumi67]

The Sig Sauer P232 viewable here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjyJVxM4Sq8)
Absolutely one of the slickest, smoothest .380s I've ever encountered.

The heel mag catch takes some getting used to, but it was absolutely flawless and very accurate. There is no mechanical safety, a working decocker and no slide catch to get in the way. A very smooth gun.

[bigblue79]

i own a bersa 380, cant say enough about it.

[cluznar]

Like my Bersa Thunder .380 :) Carry it loaded with Corbon Pwrball 70 gr ammo

[aarondhgraham]

But this beautiful gun is my favorite .380 pistol ever,,,
Beretta 85 Cheetah, single stack magazine.

http://aarondgraham.com/lwat/handguns/24-alessia.JPG

There's some kind of optical illusion that makes this gun appear larger than it really is,,,
In actuality it's only about 1/4" longer than my Bersa Thunder .380,,,
Which is near identical in size to a Walther PPK.

If Oklahoma passes the open carry law,,,
Which means I won't have to worry about accidental flashing,,,
I'm carrying this lovely lady because it's dead on reliable and hyper accurate.

Aarond

.

[mudgun83]

Not sure why no one has mentioned it yet, but the Sig P238 is light, accurate, and has light recoil. Very easy to handle, lots of fun to shoot with 1911 ergonomics.
It got off to a bad start a few years back, but Sig got it fixed and it's a great, very concealable pistol.

[blackamos]

The p238 is a nice gun but a safety on a BUG is not wanted for most.

[TennJed]

From a pure gun standpoit I will put in another vote for the Makarov 380. TOUGH, RELIABLE, ACCURATE. But obviously it is large for the caliber and they (most) are single stack. It is a great gun.

I really like the 380 acp. Very Very Very cheap to reload. Also easier for me to reload than some larger calibers. Very fun to shoot. You can go from heavy recoil pocket to a larger heavy gun with a mild recoil.

Lots of my "short list" guns are 380s
CZ 83
Seecamp
Sig p238
NAA Guardian
Beretta Cheeta
Walther PPK

(my short list isn't to short)

[gyvel]

FN/Browning 1910 .380.

[hemiram]

I've had a bunch of .380's over the last 30+ years, and the best, IMO, in order are:

1. Beretta 84. The best, period.
2. Browning BDA 380.

These two are so close in every important way, it's basically a dead heat, but I give the 84 the win due to the open slide. When you can get one for about $300 in nice shape, it's a deal too good to pass up.

The rest of the ones I've owned, or shot a lot:

3. Sphinx. Great gun, overpriced, but a new Beretta 84 or BDA is crazy high too.
4. Sig 232. Wish I would have kept mine. Sold it for way more than I paid for it, so off it went.
5. Walther PPK. A classic that has seen better days. Not a bad gun, just not as reliable or pleasant to shoot as the above. I had two, and both were a little picky about ammo and grip.
6. Astra A-60. The one I had was better than either of the PPKs I had, just wasn't as pretty.

The worst ones were the Erma made PPK clones, and the 1911 types. Horrible, every one of them, even the $$$ ones..

[bsg1]

i have a .380 Sig Sauer P230SL. i would like to own a Seecamp... just because.