Best 1911 Made to Last?

[defjon]

HI,

I'm looking for a 1911 in .45, preferably with a chrome or nickel finish? I'd like something that uses as few parts as necessary. Who is making the best example today, as far as ruggedness and reliability goes? Whose gun can weather the elements? (Sometimes you go shooting in the rain, unloaded guns falling off benches onto rocks, etc)

I'm also looking at the best BIG MILEAGE guns. I like to run 'em ragged, and have them keep ticking, without swapping tons of parts. To be honest, I probably can't remember 2-4k round spring changeouts, or new bushings...can any 1911 type pistols run like glocks in that regard?

Those custom guns that shot 1 inch groups at 3493849384 yards don't quite matter to me, combat accuracy is fine, I just want a 1911 that uses no mim parts, highly rugged, high round count type of gun in a finish that isn't blue or black.

Anyone know where I must look? We'll assume price isn't a consideration, but obviously, we all have to save dimes wherever we can, so if something does it better/ as well and cheaper...we'll, right on!

[Chui]

NONE are chromed. Go with carbon steel. It has better fatigue resistance than stainless.

Wilson in the past had the reputation you seek, but since the top smiths at Wilson started their own shop down the street there have been some issues according to Mariane Carniak (The Accurizer Gun Shop; Troy, Michigan).

Les Baer would be one place to shop.

Ed Brown would also be another place to shop.

Or...

Purchase what you believe to be the best forged, carbon steel frame and send it to a competent smith to replace all of the internals and firing pin stop using the original parts as replacement parts.

The most durable finish is Tungsten Diamond-like Carbon (W DLC) which is the same coating from IONBOND that is applied to the stainless steel slides on Sig Sauer pistols of late which a few 'smiths can have applied for you. The 'smith listed above can take care of you. I don't have her number handy, but you can e-mail her at [email protected]

You can try to search her name here as I'm sure I've listed it before. If not try www.1911forums.com

Good luck and keep us posted.

[IanS]

Its possible to get that kind of performance from a standard production 1911 from Colt/SA/Kimber without having to spend more for a semi-custom or full blown custom 1911. But your odds are better with a semi-custom/custom thats better fitted using high quality parts. There are simply no guarantees with any machine though. No matter how awesome the gun seems to be whether its a full blown custom made by the best gunsmith or a Glock they inevitably will go down one day. The best anyone can do is to be prepared and use due diligence for preventative maintenance.

Read this article by Hilton Yam about Choosing the best 1911 for Duty Use. It covers a lot of your concerns and gives the proper perspective regarding the 1911.

http://www.10-8performance.com/id8.html

[Sturmgewehre]

If you go with a company like Ed Brown you will get a gun that will easily last you a lifetime. He makes most of his own parts and his family of gunsmiths are some of the best in the business. He's been around a lot longer than most, and many other top smiths use his parts.

When you have high quality parts that are hand fitted, the guns run like tops. They don't break parts or batter themselves and really do last a life time. The most you'll have to do is replace the springs every once in a while if you shoot a lot.

I personally prefer stainless due to it's corrosion resistance properties and the fact they hold up better for daily carry (you don't have to worry about rubbing your finish off). Carbon steel may be stronger, but in a handgun stainless is plenty strong enough, you're not going to stress it in your life time or even the lifetime of the next 3 generations you may hand the gun down to. It's a moot point really. So get what tickles your fancy.

[K80Geoff]

A basic Colt would work. They seem to have worked just fine for most of the last century.

[JBriggs]

Two thoughts:

If you want to spend as little money as possible, get a Springfield Government Mil-Spec 45. They cost around 450 bucks and they will stand up to years of abuse just like the original issue Gov. models. I have abused mine through countless sessions at the range and have carried it for years. It is not fancy, but it works every time I squeeze the trigger.

If you want to go fancy, try a Wilson Combat CQB 45. Tight and beautiful and accurate as they get. However, you will pay through the nose for one. My buddy's Wilson CQB is wonderful and has seen him through some tight spots. I exepect that it will still be functioning well after I am dead and gone.

[BigJimP]

I'd recommend Wilson Combat - I have 3 of their guns - and they are some of the finiest guns I have. For wear - go with a CQB and the armor tuff finish ( dropping it off a table onto the rocks.......I hope you were kidding ) since I wouldn't do that to any gun (not even a Glock .....).

Glocks and well made 1911's are comparing apples and oranges .......not the same to say the least / on any level in my opinion. But its a free country and we should all buy and shoot whatever we want. But a good 1911, well tuned, will ruin you forever from shooting any double action gun ... in my opinion. A 1911 does not like to be run dirty and un-lubed / you have to take care of them / but that's a good thing.

If you don't like Wilson Combat - I'd recommend Ed Brown / and Les Baer as a distant 3rd. I have a variety of each but the Wilson's are my hands down favorites for fit, finish, triggers, sights, mags and durability - in .45 or
9mm for that matter.

[Sturmgewehre]

Hey BigJimP,

How old are your Wilson's? Were they made before or after the defect of their top gunsmiths to their own company?

I would be interested in finding out if the quality suffered at all with the mix-up.

[Sturmgewehre]

I took this pic for another forum (where we were comparing the work of various gun smiths). This is my Ed Brown Kobra's innards. So beautiful. :p

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Ed%20Brown/chamber.jpg

[Wulfmann]

No one with a brain will question any of the above mentioned custom type 1911s.
They are all great guns.
But, I had the same idea on a 1911 and for all the rest, the within reach of most gun buyers a Kimber is the top choice, IMO and in fact I recently bought the simple II 5 inch and it shoots flawlessly and very accurately but will not group at 500 yards like any of the above.
Kimbers are a little more money than the other regular 1911s and, again IMO, are twice the gun at half that in the difference in price ergo a great value for a very solid reliable 1911.

Wulfmann

[shepherddogs]

What Wulfmann said.:)

[Chui]

I cannot endorse Kimber for numerous reasons for a pistol that will "last a lifetime of heavy shooting".

For some ideas on Kimber America:

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=custom1911&Number=56857&page=0&fpart=all

Hilton Yam is a phenomenal 'smith and I highly respect his opinions. Check out his website: www.10-8performance.com

One thing I *CAN* say about Kimber in my experience: they are as accurate as anything out there.

Try the Nighthawk: http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=custom1911&Number=25048&page=0&fpart=all

[Dallas13]

I had a Kimber PRO TLE II that was very accurate. Unfortunately, it was not reliable. I sent it in to Kimber 4 times in 11 months of ownership. They never did get it right. Turned me off on 1911's for a while. Sold to a self professed 1911 expert. He is still tinkering with it. At least my G30 has been reliable and accurate. :)

[Joe the Redneck]

Get a Norinco.

I've had one for years. All I do is feed and clean and it keep on going. Back in the day they used to use them as a base for for raceguns.

Besides, so many people just hate Norincos. You take it to the range, some gun with an $1100 gun calls you gun "cheap commie crap". His jams every other round and your just keep on going.

(Sign, that was a good day!)

Joe

[perpster]

Slightly OT, but it just seems sacriligous to buy a ChiCom copy of a JMB/US Armed Forces icon. JMHO

[abarth]

Norinco is the best fit. No mim part, forged frame and slide, and inexpensive. Kimber, Springfield, RIA, and many other use mim.

[evan1293]

If your looking for a gun to hammer on I wouldn't get a 1911. For what your looking for your going to be spending a bit and it would be a shame to completely neglect it like that.

To answer your question though I would say go with a stainless Les baer, ed brown, wilson with fixed sights. Yes stainless doesn't hold the enth degree of accuracy that a carbon steel gun would but it will still be a tack driver at over 50K. Hardchrome is wear resistant but not rust resistant and the only nickel teflon gun I had suffered major finish wear after only a couple of weeks worth of draws from kydex.

I prefer kimbers due to cost but your not going to find one without MIM parts which you said you don't want.

[larvatus]

This is my Ed Brown Kobra's innards. So beautiful.Looks like a MIM slide stop.

[evan1293]

Looks like a MIM slide stop.

Thems Fight'n Words! :eek:

[Chui]

"Norinco is the best fit. No mim part, forged frame and slide, and inexpensive. Kimber, Springfield, RIA, and many other use mim."

Care to document your claims of "best fit"?

MIM for a grip safety is no big thing. Properly done I don't really have an issue with any low stress component. Internals, I think, should be tool steel.

[Wulfmann]

I don't have a Kimber Warrior; I have a Custom II and it is flawless.
Thanks for that link as if I run into a good deal on a warrior I know to avoid it.

Many here are pistol people.
I am not.
They are defensive tools and getting me to stop by the pistol range after 4 hours on the 200 yard range with my K98ks is difficult.

But, I actually have some desire to do so with this Kimber.
It has never once jammed or done anything other than shoot as I believe it is supposed to.
Only my (now sold)Taurus PT-92 has been as trouble free as this Kimber.

Gosh, I hope The Kimber stays that way.
But, can someone relay the Custom II impressions?
It seems what you think of the Warrior you are relating to all Kimbers.
Yes/no Ja/nicht Nai/Oxi???

With iron sites it groups at 15 yards as good as my average K98k at 200 yards (With iron sites as well, same sized targets)

Wulfmann

[Sturmgewehre]

This page (http://www.full-auto.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54) has a collection of Kimber info (mostly collected from other sites and source) all in one thread. It's a good read if you're seriously looking to buy a Kimber tomorrow.

What most people agree on is that;
1) Kimber used to make a great handgun (Series I)
2) Kimber's quality control has been spiraling downward the last couple of years

Can you get a good Kimber? Sure. What are your odds? According to Kimber owners and fanatics who took a poll on their Kimber forum last week... about 50% of the people reported FTF problems of some kind.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/KimberPoll5.png

Most of my guns I own never have a feeding problem, ever. I simply do not trust a handgun that has a "few" FTF's.

If my Springfield TRP had two FTF's with factory ammo in 200 rounds, I would be unhappy. My main line Springfield that I take to the range with me every session has never malfunctioned, ever. It even went 1000 rounds without being cleaned, and no FTF's.

But that's just me. But given all of my handguns work 100% I guess it's not such a lofty expectation. The only 1911's I've owned that did FTF were the Kimbers, which I traded off out of frustration.

[Wulfmann]

STG, could link:
Again, every reference to a specific Kimber was the Warrior.
Not once was the Custom II named for any problem although I must assume some of the finish etc stuff would be considered any/all.

So far, my Kimber Custom II has not jammed one time.:)
I did buy it used and in great condition but do not know its age and perhaps mine is old enough to be one of the good ones???????????
Is there a way to check via SR as to date of manufacture?

I must say, while this Custom II (so far) is flawless after all I have read here I would be very reluctant to buy another and would not consider a Warrior at all.:barf:
Too much being said logically to ignore!!

Wulfmann

[shepherddogs]

I've had a Custom II, Target II, a Pro CDP and a Gold Match and they were all flawless. The ambi safety on the Pro CDP did have a problem come to think of it. Kimber picked it up and had it back to me in about 10 days. They paid the freight both ways.:)

[Wulfmann]

What about the Sig 1911???

How is that for a durable gun?

What are the good and bad on it?

Getting back to the original search of the thread as the Sig seems to have good features and the brand models have been known to be reliable.

Wulfmann

[IanS]

What about the Sig 1911???

How is that for a durable gun?

What are the good and bad on it?

Getting back to the original search of the thread as the Sig seems to have good features and the brand models have been known to be reliable.


Go to www.sigforum.com and do a search on the GSR. There are some who've had good luck with them and some not so much. Stick with the P series pistols if you want a SIG Sauer.

1911's are by design very durable. Its a heavy all steel design that shoots a relatively low pressure round. (though .45 ACP can batter shorter slide 1911's and aluminum framed guns) Much depends of course on the quality of the parts and how well it was put together. I've seen many high round counts with production SA's, Colts, and yes Kimbers. We're talking 30,000 to 80,000 rounds and they're still shooting them. And people who tend to own semi-custom 1911's like Les Baer, Wilson, Brown, or SA Custom shop guns tend to shoot a lot. Probably because if they can afford a $2000 gun they can afford to shoot all that ammo. I've seen more high mileage Baers, Wilsons, and SA Pro's then any other 1911. All this is coupled with judicious spring/parts changes and regular preventative maintenance of course.

[Scorpion46]

Hi. You can't go wrong with most of the pistols listed above.

I picked up a Wilson CQB last Saturday. My shooting with that pistol is the best I've ever produced...to include with 9mm and .22 pistols. Amazingly but appropriately tight.

Don't believe everything you hear....to include what I'm suggesting. But buying this Wilson is the best decision I've made about pistols in my life.

jack

[Chui]

If you're considering spending $2,000 you may wish to research the Springfield Professional:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=144074