Beretta vs. HK

[Turkeyhead]

Hope I don't open a big can of worms here, BUT...a few months ago I sold my Springfield 1911, mostly because I finally admitted to myself that .45 may be too big of a round for me, and have been wanting another pistol ever since. I like the design of the Beretta 92/96, but the HK USP seems good too. In stepping down from .45, would I be better to go with a .40 or a 9mm? I noticed myself flinching with the Springfield, but at the same time if I need the pistol for defense I want to be sure it will make someone "unhappy." It would mostly be a range gun, but also possibly a home defender. A gun shop in my region has a Beretta M9 for just over $500 and an HK .40 for just over $700. Thoughts?

[Crimp]

My first thought would be, if you don't like the .45 ACP in a 1911, you're not going to like a .40 either. I would recommend shooting rental guns to decide, if your range has them. If not, maybe a friend's guns? Good luck on the quest!

[Sturmgewehre]

It depends on what you want to do with it, but the M9 is a great gun for the money. The felt recoil on the M9 is typically much lower than on competing designs - if you're recoil sensitive. The design of the pistol allows the barrel and slide to move straight to the rear unlike traditional Browning designs (1911 and HK).

The HK will have a slight advantage in accuracy since it's barrel locks up more tightly with the slide. The Beretta uses a bushingless design and the barrel is completely free floating on the muzzle end.

If you have the $700 for the HK, you won't be disappointed most likely. Either gun will serve you well though, I own and enjoy both of them quite a bit.

[Sturmgewehre]

My first thought would be, if you don't like the .45 ACP in a 1911, you're not going to like a .40 either. I would recommend shooting rental guns to decide, if your range has them. If not, maybe a friend's guns? Good luck on the quest!
That's a good point, the .40 kicks about as much as the .45 in most cases. You might want to think about 9mm.

[Desert01]

Check out the grip size on the two. Alot of people find the M-9 grips is to large for their hands. I'm not found of the M-9, but will most likely add one to the tool chest this year.

[Kermit]

For range use, I prefer the 9mm because it's more economical to shoot...I like both beretta & HK so this would be a tought choice. Now, if this is for a brand new gun, I'd go HK :D

[LUPUS]

Between the two, my personel preference would always be the HK, definitely.
Frame mounted controls with condition one option, recoil reduction system, both dovetailed sights which are easy to change, are not offered by 92.
Regards.

[jeo556]

Definetely go with the 9mm if the .45 is too much recoil for you. I'm of the opinion that theres not much recoil difference between the .45 and .40 and that the .40 may even be slightly worse. That being said I think that you would be pleased with either pistol. The Beretta does have a slightly larger grip so you may want to consider that if you have small hands or just prefer a smaller grip. I also wanted to comment on the accuracy of the two and say that I do not believe that the "practical accuracy" of either pistol is better than the other. I once owned a HK compact that I just could not shoot that well for one reason or the other. Coincidentally I traded it for a Beretta 92 Custom Carry that I was much more "practically accurate" with. If shooting these pistols from a ransom rest the HK may have a slight advantage but I wouldn't bet on it. Good luck in whatever you choose.

Jeo556

[Chui]

.40 S&W is much snappier than .45 ACP. Why not rent, say, a Glock Model 23 or 22 to verify for self. Then look at the 9mm pistols that you're considering. I like the H&K P30 a lot. Go to www.hkpro.com and read what rabid HK-philes think of it. There may be a few hanging out here, too. The 92FS is a large pistol and may be rather large to carry if you should decide to do so. The double action trigger needs improvement. It's very accurate. The grip is large. The safety is horrid. Up should be "ON SAFE" and down should be "OFF SAFE". It's not. Don't overlook Sig Sauers. A P226 should be compared to the Beretta 92 FS & PX4, H&K Models USP, P30 & P2000, Smith & Wesson M&P, Springfield XD-9 and Glock Models 17 & 19.

[pogo2]

I would agree with the others who advised you that .45 and .40 have similar recoil, all else being equal. The 9mm might be a better caliber choice for you.

I have fired Berettas and own H&K USPs and Sigs. For a 9mm range and home defense gun, I believe that the USP full size and the Sig P226 would both be good choices. If you are recoil sensitive, the Sig P226 weighs more than the USP (aluminum frame instead of polymer) and would probably recoil less for that reason. So I would recommend the Sig. I've had a P226 in 9mm for about 10 years and really like the gun.

And if you pick the right type of hollowpoint defensive ammo, the 9mm will do a good job of protecting you.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/SigP22615.jpg

[JAXX]

I would venture to say that because of HKs patented recoil reduction system on the full size line of the USPs, that the recoil on a USP .40 may be less than a .45 in a full size 1911 as opposed to the other way around. If you were looking into the compact line of the USPs, then I would say yes, expect to see more recoil out of the .40 vs the .45. That being said, I own a USP 40 compact and I love it. I'm no big guy by any means, but I'm not small either. 5' 11" & 180 lbs and the gun fits me perfectly. It is my daily CCW and the recoil (for me) isn't an issue. Be forwarned however, once you go HK, you may sell the rest of your guns to buy more:D

[Chui]

"I would venture to say that because of HKs patented recoil reduction system on the full size line of the USPs, that the recoil on a USP .40 may be less than a .45 in a full size 1911 as opposed to the other way around."
You'd be incorrect, but I like how you're thinking. The USP has a lot of muzzle flip, but the perceived recoil is mild compared to, say, the Glock Model 22.

The 1911 - with high-rise beavertail and arched mainspring housing is remarkably mild with 230 grain normal pressure loads.

Again, the amount of ACCELERATION of the perceived recoil in .40 S&W is greater than that of .45 ACP when shooting identical platforms. To you and I the operative word is "SNAPPY" when describing the recoil of .40 S&W pistols.

If he found the .45 ACP to possess too much recoil I'll bet $100 to $1 that he finds ANY pistol in .40 S&W more uncomfortable than his ex-1911.

[Turkeyhead]

Thanks for all the input. I had no idea that recoil on the .40 would be like that. The recoil on my 1911 wasn't horrible, but I found myself overtightening my hold in an effort to stabilize it, which is likely the problem. I haven't had a chance to hold the Beretta or HK, but unless the grip on the Beretta is twice as wide as the 1911, I don't think I'd have much problem with it, seeing as how my hand easily wrapped around the 1911's grip (and I'm slightly smaller than Jaxx). You all are definitely right though, I think a trip to a range where I can rent a couple and try them is in order.

[rauchman]

I agree with the other posters here that if you are not digging the .45, go with the 9mm. In my experience, the .40 is snappier that the 9mm and .45. Between the HK USP9F and Beretta, I would go HK. I like the Beretta (I have one), it's accurate, but the grip is very large, I don't like the safety setup, it's a big stretch for me on DA and the sights are a smidge small. I have a USP45F, that I absolutely love. The USP in general has comparitively soft recoil due to the double spring design of their recoil system... at least on the full size models. Also, I think the layout of all the controls of the USP is perfect, ie; mag release, slide release, cocked & locked safety/hammer drop. The gun is VERY accurate. One thing I don't like about the USP, is that is uses a proprietary rail system. Ironic since the USP pioneered the rail setup. The 9mm and .40 fullsize USP's use a plastic magazine shell. I don't know how true it is, but I've read user reports where the mag body split and the plastic seam. Again, don't know if this is internet blather or truth. Check out http://hkpro.com for more info. Also, I don't like the feel of the USP. The Beretta feels better in the hand. That being said, check out a P30 from HK. It is without a doubt, the best feeling polymer pistol I've held. Better than a lot of metal pistols as well. I'm holding out for the P30L (longer slide and barrel version), if they ever come out w/ it. As others have mentioned though, there are a lot of good pistols in this class. As someone else mentioned, the Sig P226 is an excellent choice and another I would take over the Beretta. FNP9, CZ75, S&W M&P, Glock, Browning High Power, Springfield XD....... lots of choices. It really comes down to what feels good to you in the hand and how you shoot with it.

[BlueDragon]

I go with Beretta all the way. the M92FS is my favorite pistol of all time. Period.

[Sturmgewehre]

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/th_MOV00686.jpg (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/?action=view&current=MOV00686.flv)

:p

[BlueDragon]

All i gotta say is dude i dont know how u could do that to an Italian Inox:eek: I could never do that to mine.:barf::D

[teeroux]

if youd done that with a usp you wouldnt have to jack the slide back every shot.

[softmentor]

check out some HK in extreme cold, water, and mud. the sound is in German but the vid is rad.


http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31506&highlight=torture+test+video

Go to this link and click on the torture test video link (sorry, 2 steps, I couldn't get the link to work directly from here)

[jeo556]

"if youd done that with a usp you wouldnt have to jack the slide back every shot."

I agree, I tried to get my USP to jam and it just wouldn't happen. They are unstoppable. Under normal conditions though, the Beretta would be just as reliable.

Jeo556

[Maximus]

Definitely the Beretta!!! Yes, the grip may be a tad large for some, but it's not like it's a boat you can't wrap your hand(s) around. My hands are probably on the smaller size of the scale, and I find the Beretta really comfortable! Your best bet is to try both and see which one you like more! I've held and played around w/ a few HKs and I found none to my liking, but everyone is different! Yes, if you didn't like the recoil of the 45, skip the 40, it'll be worse than the 45 to shoot.

Also, remember the Beretta is around 500 NIB and the HK is a couple hundred more, same goes for the Sig 226, IMO, I don't believe any of the three has an advantage over the other. In fact my most reliable pistol is my Beretta 92fs. If you buy the Beretta, you'll have an additional 200 bucks for extra mags, ammo, and trips to the range!!!

[fatboyclone]

check out the HK P30 in 9mm or the HK45 in .45. both have improved grips compared to the USP series

[dchi]

I agree the .40 feels snappier in plastic guns like the glock. My G22 starts to numb my hand a little after 100-150 rounds. But in my para p16 it is softer than a .45. But thats a heavy gun over 45 oz fully loaded twice that of the glock. I would go with the 9mm if I were you. I prefer the HK over the berreta.