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View Full Version : To WSM or not to WSM, that is the question


leadcounsel
June 25, 2007, 09:43 AM
I'm curious to know more about the WSM cartridge. I've read many posts here but none that are concise. Who prefers the standard and who prefers the WSM and why?

Factors to consider are rifle or ammo cost, availability, ammo selection, range, accuracy, weight, and lenth of bolt, etc.

Will the WSM fade away or is it popular?

maddog44
June 25, 2007, 09:48 AM
WSM, The answer to the question nobody asked. IMHO.

mikejonestkd
June 25, 2007, 09:59 AM
I have nothing against them, but there is not really any advantage over standard cartridges that are cheaper to buy and easier to find ammo for.

I do like the .270 WSM, the 7mm WSM and the .300 WSM but they are not really any different than already proven rounds. A friend has a browning in .270 WSM and it is accurate and flat shooting, but for me I would just as well stick with a .270 win.

buckster
June 25, 2007, 10:07 AM
I had a Browning A-bolt in 7mm WSM. I noticed a little throat erosion after 1000 rounds. It was a flat shooter with 1"groups at 100 yds. You notice the speed and trajectory being flatter. The ammo is not cheap!

jhgreasemonkey
June 25, 2007, 01:20 PM
I dont really see the advantage. Is a short action really that much better to have? Not for me.

gmarr
June 25, 2007, 04:07 PM
I got a .300 WSM to replace a .30-06 that I've had for quite some time. While the '06 pretty much covers all bases, my favorite caliber, I wanted something new that gives me some added 'punch' at 200-400 yds.

Picked up a M70 Super-Shadow NIB. Handles very good, I like the short-action, and it's more accurate than I am. The .300 WSM also shoots pretty flat and the recoil to me is equal to the '06. I don't reload but the factory offerings in 150, 165, and 180 grain loads will cover anything I need.

It has/offers some extra velocity, energy, and shoots flat. Performance is improved, so why not?

Gewehr98
June 25, 2007, 05:40 PM
WSMs offer extra velocity, but at a price.

I'm seeing local gun stores dropping them like a bad habit, and even the ammo on the shelves is getting scarce. If you already own one, grab a lifetime supply of brass and start reloading. Even then, reloaders of the same have discovered they have difficulty duplicating factory ballistics out of them, thanks to proprietary factory loading techniques and components. They just don't reload like the older .300 Win Mag or 7mm Remington Mag.

The demise of Winchester didn't help things much, either.

FirstFreedom
June 25, 2007, 05:57 PM
Generally, no they are not worth the extra cost and potential obscurity.

The one exception *may* be the .270 WSM, which offers pretty good advantage over the .270 win (at the cost of barrel burn, of course). The .270 wsm is a real screamer, with heavy enough bullets for large game, and as such, is very interesting, ala the .264 winmag and 7 stw and the like. But again, barrel life is the issue there.

The 7mm and .30 rounds are inferior to their traditional counterparts for hunting applications; although they are *potentially* superior to the traditional counterparts for precision target applications - for max accuracy. So the answer is, it depends on your use.

ConfuseUs
June 25, 2007, 06:36 PM
I say no, partly because I already have a 7mm Rem Mag, partly because I am frugal and (occasionally) practical.

They seem more like a solution in search of a problem.
I say that because established calibers do essentially the same thing, just with a longer case, years of load development, etc. eg, the 7mm Rem Mag.

Also, the rifle is affordable, the ammo is not. 1 new rifle <= 100 rds ammo that's hard to find? Get real. I am not spending hundreds of dollars on what, in 10 years, is most likely to be a finely crafted club with a telescope on it.

Yithian
June 25, 2007, 09:17 PM
The WSM cartridge is basically just trying to burn the same amount of powder faster.
Just the primer alone is enough to send the bullet on its way. How much powder burns behind the bullet while the bullet is still in the barrel?
Think of the case as a fuse on a fire-cracker. The longer it is, the longer it burns.
WSM's cram more powder closer to the primer. The result is more energy spent when it counts.
And it works!

What Winchester/Browning didn't plan on, was the erosion in the throat of the barrel.
There is so much pressure, heat and velocity that plain barrel steel can't handle it.
The larger calibers aren't as bad but those small calibers are eaten alive.
Some have complained already that their .223WSSM needed a new barrel after only a 1000 rounds, and are replacing them with .243WSSM barrels instead.
And, the cost of ammo is more than twice the older cartridges.

Basically WSM's are beyond current technology in barrel manufacture, IMHO.

Fun little machines tho.
Be sure and wear eye protection if you go prone w/bipod. They WILL kick loose pebbles up at your face.

wolverine350
June 25, 2007, 09:53 PM
If you check ballistics there isn't really much of an advantage with a wsm, will stick with the 25-06 over the 25wssm ammo is lots cheaper:D

Jseime
June 25, 2007, 11:23 PM
Well lets list off my opinion of the WSM calibers.

Rifle cost goes up
ammunition cost goes up
magazine capacity goes down
very little advantage over the standard rounds (the fastest load in my reloading book for .270 WSM is one FPS faster than the regular .270)

These rounds are not anything better than what we already had. If you cannot carry a standard length action and need a short action i suggest you join a gym or start knitting an extra six ounces on a rifle is diddly.

WSM, WSSM, RSAUM, and all the other new magnum rounds are marketing ploys that are convinving regular Bubba shooters that they can become long range snipers because they shoot flat.

I guarantee you that anything you can do with your .270 WSM can be matched by me and my regular .270 or you can have my gun. (except the small groups...its a Ruger after all)

kametc
June 26, 2007, 01:22 AM
very little advantage over the standard rounds (the fastest load in my reloading book for .270 WSM is one FPS faster than the regular .270) How about 3080 FPS with both a 150 gr Hornady SST or a 150 gr Nosler Partition. Incedently that is a dead match for Federal Fusion 150 gr ammo. I've found all of the reloading books to be very very conservative when it comes to reloading data for the WSM and I expect future issues will be up to speed. Hogdon Powders lists their max load for the 150gr bt bullet at 70gr of Retumbo and the above velocity. My Ultimate Shadow happens to really like that load. (group size .750 bench rested). Accurate Arms lists their powder Mag Pro, also at 70 gr for the 150 bullet and at 3100 FPS. I pulled apart a Federal Fusion and weighed the charge right at 70 gr of a very fine ball powder ( just like Mag Pro).
All the techno stuff aside the 270 WSM is almost on par with a 270 Weatherby. My 15 year old daughter bought one first and honestly I had enough rifles until I shot hers. Whats not to like. Some of the calibers are just ballistic remakes of other calibers but the 270WSM and the 243WSSM are head and shoulders standouts.
So you might not find ammo for sale at the Resume Speed, MT Kwik Stop, I fired 3 rounds hunting last season and counted for every one of them. I usually have some with me. On far away hunts I always take two rifles anyway.(don't you guys?):rolleyes::rolleyes: The other one is always my 30.06 of course:D:D.

MacGille
June 26, 2007, 02:17 PM
Just another reason to sell rifles. Hooray!!!:)

Geoff Timm
June 26, 2007, 05:49 PM
Go down to your friendly neighborhood ammo store and pick up a case of 5mm Remington Rimfire.

Geoff
Who suspects the classics will be with us a long time.
Who also notes reloaders are quite happy with strange cartridges.

All in moderation
June 26, 2007, 10:23 PM
Same bullet, moving same velocity, using less powder. If you reload it is worth a look, if you don't, you may regret the cost of ammo.

ColdStone
October 22, 2007, 02:00 PM
Obviously, our firearms industry (especially hunting rifle manufacturers) is having a hard time, for the most part. They are under legal pressure and financial pressure. Look at Winchester and Remington. While hunting is becoming a zillion dollar industry, most of that money, I would guess, is going towards the Camo de jour, and the gadget of the week. Watch the hunting shows on Versus, etc., and see ALL the stuff todays hunter MUST have. However, with fewer people hunting, our Greatest Generation "moving on" and their families frequently selling their guns, we may be awash in our old standard bolt action hunting rifles, model #s starting with a 7 (70, 77, 700, 7) in .243, .270, .30-'06, .308, etc., etc.

To keep making some money (to pay all those lawyers), they HAVE to offer something new - new calibers are about it.

Some can justifiably say that we haven't needed any new calibers since the late 1960's (others will say we haven't needed a new caliber since 1906!), BUTT (and this is a big but!), if we don't occasionally buy a new hunting rifle, we'll soon find ourselves buying from only one or two companies (after Hillary's 2 or 3 terms, of course).

So, the plethora of new calibers, especially those of the short, super short, ultra short, and pantheon short, will sort themselves our over time, and we'll be left with a few good, new "standard" calibers.

BUY AMERICAN (if you can find it)!!!!

firetido
October 22, 2007, 02:25 PM
Any caliber you are willing and ABLE to shoot is a good one. for those who can afford to readily purchase short mag ammo, then more power to ya! firearm Fads come and go, wether or not the WSM will fade away, who knows. It's just one of those things that some will swear by and others will guff at. I personally like the standard cartridges, but then again whatever keeps the discussions going!

HDTVSELLER
October 22, 2007, 05:05 PM
i also have the win. model 70 in 300wsm and love the round ...but it isnt a round you can just find anywere. the cost sucks and is why i am getting into reloading cause what i spent on a 100 rounds i paid for my press, powders,........and all that and still loaded 100 rounds for just under less than factory.

Wayfaring_Stranger
October 22, 2007, 05:10 PM
I love it. Get great velocities without pushing the limit, good versatility ect. Is it much better than the regular old .270? Probably not. But it works for me.

Bigoledude
October 23, 2007, 02:08 AM
Hey Coldstone, what an intelligent and lucid commentary! Wish my first post wouldda even come close to that one.

BTW, I bought a .270 wizzum. I don't think I'll ever need the little extra ballistics in the field. I just kinda liked the short little fat suckers. Honest injun, it's why I bought it!

It's already taken some nice Euro boars. Don't think they liked it ONE BIT!

joshua
October 23, 2007, 04:28 AM
What's not to like about WSM cartridges?

Not so common cartridges in gun store shelves.
Feeding not as smooth as the real short action rounds.

What' to like about WSM cartridges?

Higher velocity attained than short action or long action standard loads.
Velocity can approach or almost match magnum velocities with light to medium bullets.
Short action provides a shorter overall rifle conducive to a faster pointing rifle.
Short action benefits accuracy.
Recoil seems to be a bit less than magnum counterpart.
Takes less powder to achieve magnum velocities, with a shorter barrel.

Hmmm.... I think my next rifle will be a 300WSM. The fact that it's harder to find the rounds doesn't phase me. I have a 270 Win that I have not bought factory ammo for in years. In fact I still have the original 100 pieces of brass that I bought as factory loads more than 16 years ago. I'm thinking 200 pieces of WSM brass will last me a lifetime. The only thing that will stop me from buying a 300 WSM is if Ruger comes out with a 338 Ruger. josh

wayne in boca
October 23, 2007, 05:15 AM
I have a .300 WSM in a Winchester Model 70 Classic Featherweight.Almost identical ballistics to a .300 Win Mag (with a non-belted case,in a short action) and one of the most accurate rifles I have.What's not to like?
At 250 yards,the round still has as much velocity as a .30-06 does at the muzzle.Translates into flat-shooting knockdown power.No buyer's remorse here,I love mine.

Red_Eagle
October 23, 2007, 10:47 AM
I don't have much use for magnums around here, but if I ever feel the need to get one it'll probably be WSM and most likely the 270 WSM. Almost the performance of the weatherby but brass is alot cheaper and easier to reload. Tried reloading 300 win mag for my girl friend and it was pretty frustrating. Keeped getting cracks along the belt.

remjeep75
October 23, 2007, 02:38 PM
love my 270 wsm

Smokey Joe
October 23, 2007, 02:57 PM
Leadcounsel--You caused me a problem here--You don't have a choice in yr poll for "Both!"

I have '06's. Love 'em. I have a .243. Love it. I have a 6.5x55, and an 8x57, not to mention a 7.62x39. Love 'em all.

I also have a .300 WSM. Love it too. It's a .30-'06 on steroids, without needing all the powder of a .300 WM or God help us a .300 Wby, and with less perceived recoil than either of those fine rounds. Nice accuracy. No bbl damage...yet. We'll see about that last item.

I think that Coldstone hit it well:So, the plethora of new calibers, especially those of the short, super short, ultra short, and pantheon short, will sort themselves our over time, and we'll be left with a few good, new "standard" calibers.In addition to the "old standard" cartridges that we know and love.

I fail to see a downside to any of this.

Crotalus
October 23, 2007, 11:40 PM
I went with the 270wsm for my latest hunting rifle. No regrets. I like the short fat case and If I have to make a long shot, no big deal. Here in gun haters California I can find WSM ammo at all the gun shops, wallmart, and even sports authority where I work carries the stuff. I don't mind that ammo is a little more $$. I usually only need one shot for hunting and realistically only target shoot a few times a year. I can justify spending the extra five bucks. I don't think anyone intended to replace the standard cartridges with the WSM's. Variety is the spice of life, if you want something a little different go with a WSM.

guntotin_fool
October 24, 2007, 01:36 AM
They had a 2 to 5 year production run, the company that made them went under, and no one has picked up the ball and started making more.

That means a tiny market share, high priced ammo, limited selections of ammo and types, and very little likely hood anyone will want to pick them up and make some new rifles chambered in them.

Crosshair
October 24, 2007, 02:53 AM
Yithian The larger calibers aren't as bad but those small calibers are eaten alive.
Some have complained already that their .223WSSM needed a new barrel after only a 1000 rounds, and are replacing them with .243WSSM barrels instead.

Very true. Hornady noted in their 2007 Reloading manual that they saw significant erosion after only a few hundred rounds of 223 WSSM. What they should have done to reduce the problem is have a long neck like on the 6mm Remington or 222 Remington, allow more erosion to occur on the case and not on the barrel.

Mike50
October 24, 2007, 06:14 AM
I've never seen such silly argument, and silly behavior from enthusiasts in my life, as the debate over short magnums.

There is no need for more than about 6 rifle cartridges, max. This hobby thrives on minor differences and tiny improvements. If you have a 30-06, you don't need to have 270's or 280's, nor a at least a half dozen others.

You guys live and breath tiny differences, small and imagined improvements. You have a perfectly good rifle, yet you trade it in, spend hundreds on a new one, or add a new one because it is has a subtle difference.

By the standards of variability in the rifle/ammo business, the short magnums have a lot to offer. If you loves guns and shooting, you should be proud that you've got something new to play with.

Nobody is making you buy one, so if you don't like them, keep your money in your pocket. But why in the world does half of the shooting fraternity feel compelled to gripe and criticize the way they do. Most of the negativity is absolutely ridiculous.

Some of them are going to fail, but some are very successful and offer a refreshing difference. Some of you can't even bring yourselves to admit to that.

I feel better now.

Justme
October 24, 2007, 08:04 AM
The caliber wars remind me of those fundamentalist churchs where every year or so some "elder" argues with the preacher about whether the original greek said "and" or "but" in one particular footnote and he gets pissed off and starts his own demonination that is "totally different".

biglabsrule
October 24, 2007, 11:40 AM
I'll jot down my opinioin since you didn't ask for experts ;p and I just love polls :)...


I voted stay with the traditional, but do recognize the wsm is a great choice in some instances. Will the WSM stay around, I am confident they're not going anywhere, that shouldn't be an issue when deciding.

The bigger issue is do you need it? Look at what you'll be using it for and then think about the price. Is it worth the extra expenses. The gun is more, ammo!! is more, and the gun wears quicker. You might save, what a half pound with a short action, but you give up an extra round or two in capacity. I won't be buying one, probably ever, my .270win and .30-06 are just about everything I can ever imagine needing... You just don't need a larger round for anything you come across on a normal hunt, if you're going to take cape buffalo maybe nitro or whatever is needed but bambi is pretty pathetic, using a .30-06 on bambi is kinda overkill(I use a .30-06 though;p).

Go with a .270 WSM, or .300 WSM if you do want on... they're good bets for staying alive...

It's all a mater of price, use and just wanting something to impress...
~ my hunting buds father just bought a model 700 in .300 Ultra Magnum!!!, That is one hell of a round, makes my .30-06 look like a pistol round lol, I'll let him be all manly then maybe in a couple years I'll get a .50BMG and make him feel like a pretty princes :p

MeekAndMild
October 24, 2007, 04:16 PM
Lead,

I'm generally opposed to them but they do have one reputed advantage, which is that they may be slightly less prone to the dreaded short shucking phenomena than full length cartridges. "Short shucking" is a quaint term for ejecting a spent cartridge and not quite pulling the bolt back far enough to catch the new cartridge.

Short shucking is usually done in the heat of the moment when for some reason an invisible twig, cosmic ray or flying insect has deflected the first shot and the victim (can I use the term victim here?) ejects the cartridge, slams the bolt home and lines up for their second shot only to hear a tiny 'click' instead of the anticipated 'bam'. They then watch as the deer (for some reason the lucky deer is usually a 12 to 16 pointer) thumbs its nose before bouncing off never to be seen again.

Mike,
I'm glad you feel better. :D

Red_Eagle
October 24, 2007, 08:59 PM
The WSM's are here to stay. The WSSM's are a different story. All they do is duplicate the ballistics of already existing cartridges. Namely, 220 Swift, 6mm Remington, and 25-06 (or 257 Roberts +P, depending on who's data you're looking at). They also can't function out of a normal magazine and nobody the FN/Herstal dosen't own is going to redesign a feed sysytem for them.

ColdStone
December 1, 2008, 10:42 PM
I neglected to mention in my earlier post that I bought my 300WSM (a Vanguard) for an Oryx hunt in October of '07. I got my bull at slightly over 450 yards with one shot of Fusion 165 gr. Bang! Thump! Flop. I subsequently traded for an A-Bolt with BOSS in .300WSM for my younger son for an Elk hunt. The A-Bolt is a REALLY nice gun, VERY accurate and shooting side by side with the Vanguard, the BOSS reduces the recoil to @ .308/'06 level. I've sold my Vanguard and am now looking for a Stainless A-Bolt with BOSS for me.

gustav129
December 2, 2008, 12:53 AM
Ammo was cheap ($16 a box of Federal) when I bought my 7mm WSM. Then is became hard to find for a couple months. Now I can find it, but it ranges from $28-$45 a box.

I bought the gun because Winchester shut the New Haven plant down and stopped making the Model 70 in 2006. The rifle I got was the last I could find, so I bought it. I have'nt shot much through it, maybe 2 boxes trying to sight it in.

My gf's dad has a .300 WSM. I do like it, very accurate.

Horseman
December 2, 2008, 09:49 AM
How come everyone complains about availabilty of factory rounds in WSM's. I read DOZENS of posts raving about obscure calibers like 257 Roberts and 6.5x55 Swede that are harder to find ammo for than WSM's.

Pull up your skirt and load your own like a big boy. WSM's will last. WSSM's are already dead.

Big-Foot
December 2, 2008, 10:08 AM
Is that right?

I like the WSM just fine. The brass will be around forever, just more expensive, no problem though this is a hunting gun not a plinker.

thinkingman
December 2, 2008, 12:46 PM
I'm not that biased but I'm pretty sure the WSM's aren't going away.
Decent cartridge, good accuracy, more efficient.
Face it, there are guys that think engine technology peaked with the chevy small block.
And they're going to badmouth every develpment after that.
buy what you like.

MythBuster
December 2, 2008, 05:47 PM
A rifleman with an '03 Springfield in 30-06 is much more deadly than a sandbagger with a $2,000 rifle with a $1,000 scope in a WSM caliber.

No matter how much money you spend on BS until you learn real world shooting skills you still are sandbagger who could not hit the broad side of a barn if he was in it.

Forget about all the technical BS and forget the shooting bench even exists and learn to shoot what you already have.

Horseman
December 2, 2008, 06:03 PM
Mythbuster

Point well taken some folks don't shoot enough in real world scenarios. I like to shoot from a bench because I'm usually testing my handloads combined with my equipment. Some of us have delved deeper into the hobby than just shooting. Handloading is another hobby altogether, which for me has led to competition benchrest.

gustav129
December 2, 2008, 07:36 PM
It's only the 7mm WSM I have a problem with. I want to get into reloading, but I have yet to find any 7mm WSM casings locally (Sportsmans, Cabela's,....)

I have not seen any problem for the .270 and .300 WSM, everything and anything ever wanted is available.

litman252
December 2, 2008, 07:37 PM
WOW, quite some reaction by some here.

I guess I have no problems with them, cousin of mine has a browning in 300WSM and he shoots it better than anyone I know. He also shoots the 30-06 and 338 Win Mag well so it's not the cartridge or rifle alone.

He took it to africa this past summer and it did well for him..........

I have calibers that cover the small/medium bores quite well, 25-06, 6.5x55, 308, 7mmstw, 7.62x39, 30-06, 30-30.

I guess the 30-30 and the 7stw are opposites, I like them both.

My 2 main calibers for deer are the 6.5 and the 25. I could sell everything except them, but why not have some variety?? The WSM nearly match the STW in a size of the '08.

Live and let live, the spice of life is great!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tony

MacGille
December 2, 2008, 07:59 PM
The shooting world is, and always has been, full of people who are looking for something a little bit different. Elmer Keith, Lee Jurras, and many more were always trying for something a little hotter, more acurate, greater impact or whatever.

The WSSM is just another one of the different ones. I remember when the belted magnums were all the rage. I built a .300 Win Mag Leech cup rifle. The thing weighed 12.5 lb. empty. 27" barrel, beavertail stock, Redfield olympic aperture sight. Amazing accuracy, hurt me everytime I fired it. :( I finally sold it and bought a 1903A3 with a scope and tip off mount. Super accurate, and never hurt me.

Now I shoot a Garand, a .270 FN Mauser, an 8MM Mauser, an sks, and several other calibers. I don't find a need for anything different or more powerful. Just my preferences though, if new stokes your fire, go for it. Buy more guns, components, equipment, etc. It just makes the sport more healthy.:)

ColdStone
December 2, 2008, 08:22 PM
Mythbuster - "A rifleman with an '03 Springfield in 30-06 is much more deadly than a sandbagger with a $2,000 rifle with a $1,000 scope in a WSM caliber.

No matter how much money you spend on BS until you learn real world shooting skills you still are sandbagger who could not hit the broad side of a barn if he was in it.

Forget about all the technical BS and forget the shooting bench even exists and learn to shoot what you already have."

YAWN!!!

Apples and Oranges.

How did we ever get out of the muzzleloader phase??? "There isn't an animal on the face of the Earth that hasn't been killed by a skilled rifleman with one well-placed shot from a muzzleloader." Isn't that true???

It is called progress, my boy!

Flatbush Harry
December 2, 2008, 08:25 PM
True, but my .30-06 costs me $0.28/rd in boxes for practice and $0.31/rd in en bloc clips from CMP. I'll stick with 150gr JHP for deer, 180 gr or 220gr for elk and not use an M1 for hunting. But that's me...YMMV.

Cheers,

Howard

Ace12
December 2, 2008, 08:35 PM
Is the throat erosion a real problem with the WSM, or was it just a concern that has been disproved? I have a 270 WSM and love it. If I am going to see any throat erosion, I would like to know how to tell and how many rounds before I should be concerned?

B. Lahey
December 2, 2008, 08:45 PM
They were designed because of manufacturing concerns (can't stuff regular magnums in cheaper-to-build short actions), not because of demand from shooters. That's a bad start for a chambering. Not that there's anything wrong with building cheaper rifles, but when you are talking about high-performance arms I don't know that the average consumer cares if the receiver and bolt costs a few extra bucks to produce. You are not gaining much (or anything), they are just easier to build. And it comes at the price of requiring weird, extra-fat ammunition that is expensive and may or may not be readily available in a few years.

No thanks.

Horseman
December 2, 2008, 08:50 PM
Throat erosion was a problem with some of the WSSM's. Not the WSM's IME. Since I handload I actually don't shoot with any more pressure or powder in the WSM's than their bigger cousins, so it should not have a shorter barrel life. I haven't shot enough to tell for sure but that's what I've taken from looking at the loading manuals.

The throat erosion myth stems from some folks not being smart enough to differentiate between WSSM and WSM's. Two different animals.

Look for WSM barrel life to be similar to 270 Weatherby, 7mm Rem Mag, and 300 Win mag respectively. You won't wear one out hunting or sighting in. That's for sure.

Ace12
December 2, 2008, 09:14 PM
Thanks Horseman. Good to know I wont have to replace the barrel anytime soon. I probably dont shoot more than 2 or 3 boxes a year through it.

DoctorXring
December 3, 2008, 12:17 AM
.


WSM's are fine cartridges.

Needed by the hunter -- NO !

By the manufacturer's -- YES !!

Gotta have some new toys to sell the boys.


I mean get real. You only need a very
few cartridges to cover the gamut of
rifle hunting.

22LR
243 Winchester
30-06
375 H&H

But we don't want to put gun writer's out of job,
so we buy all the crap they say we need.

:)

dxr

.

Horseman
December 3, 2008, 12:26 AM
DoctorXring

You've got a point. I think possible some of us hunters like to keep it fresh too. If you're really into this stuff sometimes it's fun to talk yourself into a new toy you know? Experimenting is good for the sport. Without it we'd still be using spears and clubs. It's up to each of us to decide where to draw the line.

If we're gonna talk "not necessary" I'd say this. How many of us couldn't kill the same deer in the same scenarios using 100 year old lever guns. Why change from that? They work well.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
December 3, 2008, 08:07 AM
They can't hardly give the rifles away around here---and when the dealer restocks the inventory---NONE are chambered in a WSM. They are well on their way to being quite dead.


As for finding cases for reloading---you can full length resize any case in the family to the one you're shooting---then trim to length----and make sure you clearly mark your reloads so you don't have any mix ups.

Horseman
December 3, 2008, 08:40 AM
They can't hardly give the rifles away around here---and when the dealer restocks the inventory---NONE are chambered in a WSM. They are well on their way to being quite dead.


Are you from Omaha? I know 2 people who traveled to Omaha to buy WSM's in the last 30 days. 40 miles down the road in Lincoln 300 WSM and 30-06 lead the rifle sales at our largest retailer.

Savage99
December 3, 2008, 09:01 AM
leadcounsel,

The WSM's provide magnum performance without the reloading headspace problems that the old belted magnums have.

The other reason to get one are the Kimber 8400's as they weigh less than other rifles if thats what you want.

I was so glad to see the WSM's come out so that I could drop the belted rounds for handloading.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
December 3, 2008, 12:25 PM
They must have bought one of the discounted rifles at Scheel's---last I looked they had a stainless Winchester originally priced at $750 marked down to to $399---like I said, they can't hardly give em away.

None of their new rifles coming in are in WSM chamberings.

DoctorXring
December 3, 2008, 02:46 PM
Horseman -

Did you not see the tongue in my cheek ?

:)

I have in my possession at this time rifles in the following
calibers. 22LR, 223 Remington, 243 Winchester, 260 Remington,
6.5x55, 270 Winchester, 30-30 Win, 308 Win, 7.5x55 Swiss, 30-06,
8x57, 35 Whelen, 38-55 Winchester, and 45-70. Most more than one.
And I see I have left out the 41 Swiss and the 8x56R.


My first comment was "the WSM's are fine cartridges".


I guess my point could have been stated in a more axiomatic
way as, "They don't do anything that the ones we already have do".

If I found a finely crafted 270 WSM that I really liked, and couldn't
relish my vittles unless I brought it home with me, I would surely add
it to the fold of the other rifles I don't "need".

:)

best, dxr






DoctorXring

You've got a point. I think possible some of us hunters like to keep it fresh too. If you're really into this stuff sometimes it's fun to talk yourself into a new toy you know? Experimenting is good for the sport. Without it we'd still be using spears and clubs. It's up to each of us to decide where to draw the line.

If we're gonna talk "not necessary" I'd say this. How many of us couldn't kill the same deer in the same scenarios using 100 year old lever guns. Why change from that? They work well.

Horseman
December 3, 2008, 03:21 PM
DoctorXring

I agree with your earlier post. I think you're point was; there's really no need for so many different cartridges. You could take the few you mentioned and do just about anything with them. I agree with what you are saying.

Where we draw the line is different for everyone I think. There are certainly those among us who think guns and cartridges peaked 100 years ago.

MythBuster
December 4, 2008, 12:00 PM
When it comes to shooting a rifle in the real world technology can't replace skill.

Buy a rifle that you can get ammo anywhere you look at a reasonable price and LEARN TO SHOOT IT without a bench and sandbags.

kametc
December 4, 2008, 02:58 PM
If Paul Mauser were alive today, I'm sure he would be thrilled to see his base design still on the top shelf of the firearm mfg world. I bet he would buy a 270 WSM just like mine.:D

Ken

gb_in_ga
December 4, 2008, 03:19 PM
WSM? There's something to be said for a shorter round that does about the same thing as a longer round. It makes for a shorter and potentially stronger action. It makes for a lighter and faster handling rifle. The shorter action also means that it is possible to shave a fraction of a second off of the time to take a follow-up shot if needed.

That said, there's no reason for me to have one. I don't need it for where I intend to hunt. I don't need any sort of magnum, short or not -- the standard stuff works just fine.

If we're gonna talk "not necessary" I'd say this. How many of us couldn't kill the same deer in the same scenarios using 100 year old lever guns. Why change from that? They work well.
Good question, one I asked myself just recently. I really don't see myself needing to take a shot over about 200 yards, and I don't see myself hunting anything bigger than your typical small-ish Texas Hill Country whitetail. In other words, a .30-30 will do what I need done. Hence, there's this Marlin 336 (which I picked out) wrapped up, to me, under the Xmas tree right now.

That I'm a southpaw and don't like bolts definitely factored into the decision making process.

armsmaster270
December 4, 2008, 04:43 PM
I have a 7mmWSM A-bolt Stalker also a 30-06, 30-30, 303, 7.62x39, 6.5jap, even a 26.5mm flare gun They are all fun to shoot and have a use. I wouldn't use the 7mm or the 30-06 in heavy brush and I wouldn't use the 30-30 for that 350yard shot. They all have uses even the 26.5mm, I use it on my boat.:D

gandog56
January 22, 2009, 08:52 PM
Reminds me of a guy at the range sitting next to me. He called the range officer over and said he could not close the bolt on his 270, and he had a round wedged in it he could not get out. After much grunting and straining the officer finally got the shell out after borrowing the cleaning rod from my Mosin 91/30. Found out the guy was trying to chamber a WSM cartridge in his .270 Win rifle. He had no clue it was a completely different cartridge, he just saw .270 on the box.

ForneyRider
January 26, 2009, 05:29 PM
I think the WSM cartridges are great. I don't like the belt on belted family of magnums. WSM action is supposedly stronger and potentially more accurate.

WSM cartridges are higher pressure and more efficient i.e. cheaper to reload after brass is purchased.

One of my gun magazines compared 270 Win and 270 WSM including reloads. There wasn't much difference. Factory WSM is about 100fps faster than a hot Hornady factory load of 270 Win.

Not sure the 325 WSM was such a good idea. Bullet manufs don't offer much of the new plastic tipped bullets except for the Nosler Accubond and Nosler Ballistic Tip in .323. Why not a 338 WSM?

Browning BAR and Win Super X semi-autos are available in 338 Win Mag, why not the 325 WSM?

ddeyo1
January 26, 2009, 05:50 PM
i was buying a 243 JUST when WSM cartridges were hitting the scene, and i mean just i hadnt even heard of it yet and i wasnt sure the round was even gonne stick. So i went with the plane jaine 243. Ive shot the 243 wsm and id have to say there isnt much difference between the two at all, maybe besides a shorter action but my 243 is only like 41 inches long altogather anyway, a shorter gun probobly wouldnt even fit me.