Need advice on domestic situation

[rugerdude]

Okay, this is going to sound a little complicated and dramatic, so bear with me.

MY girlfriend's sister has recently seperated from her abusive husband (an illegal immigrant from Mexico) pending a divorce. They have a 3 year-old girl that is staying with my girlfriend's family because neither of the parents are in a situation to care for her.

Yesterday the husband called their house saying that he was going to take the child with him. They have a sturdy front door, but no firearms and only women in the house.

I have told them that I can be there if they need me, and I will have a mossberg 500 18.5" barrel shotgun (00 buck) with me.

Is this too extreme? I know a firearm is a last resort, but I don't like the idea of an abusive guy who's already upset about losing his kid around my girlfriend or her family.

Any advice is greatly appreciated,
Thanks guys.

[Playboypenguin]

He is legally married to a citizen and has a child with her but he is still an illegal imigrant?

[TATER]

Call the sheriffs Dept.
Don’t be the Hero Boyfriend And Don’t get involved
With that crap!

[Duxman]

Try a restraining order.

I think the wife should file one against the husband if she is in fear of her life.

The INS might be able to help and get this joker deported.

The safe thing to do - would be to move the women and child out of the house.

[Fremmer]

If you don't have a court order barring the father of the child from seeing or having possession of the child, then you have problems. Your shotgun won't help. I suppose that you could shoot the father, but I don't see how that will help the child. If mom or dad aren't going to care for the child, whoever is going to take care of that child needs a court order approving of the same. And if the father needs to be kept away from the child, then you need a court order for that, too.

[Hard Ball]

Report him tp ICE and get him deported.

[newarcher]

My advice?

Have your girlfriend's family call the sheriff's department and swear out a restraining order against the guy. That will protect them in case he comes calling. I would also call the INS and report him and explain that his is a danger.

However, you don't say whether your girlfriend's family has legal custody of the child or not or was just given the child by the mother temporarily. If they don't, then the father may well be within his rights to take the child....it all depends. It is a complicated legal scenario that could end your girlfriend's family in jail for kidnapping if they are just a little wrong.

As for you, forget the shotgun....it is a ticket to jail for you. If he is over there, call the law. If he is threatening, call the law.

Probably the best advice I could give you...not trying to be smart....dump the girlfriend and her entire family and run like hell. Most people murdered are involved in situations like this and/or are having drug involvement. Looks like a good chance for you to be killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I know a lot of the immigrants in my area have a penchant for settling disputes very nastily using knives...I don't know why they like knives so much. But anyway, I'd be outta there.

I would be saying "see ya sistah".

New

[chris in va]

Too extreme. You'd go to jail. Firearms don't come into play unless he's got a knife and attacks you or them. It's not a tool to dissuade him from taking the kid.:o

Hate to say it, but you'll need to get the gub'nt in on the action. They probably won't do much but at least you can say that route was taken.

[Hallucinator]

Let the system work for you. Call the sheriff and the sheriff will probably check with the INS as well.

[Creature]

This is a particularly bad situation as these tend to escalate rapidly out of control. Detach from this emotionally and resolve yourself to remain an unbiased spectator in the back ground...especially if you happen to actually be there when he shows up and he starts grumbling and begins to imply threats. If that happens, dial 911.

If he gets VIOLENT, then batten down the hatches, gear up, call for support, and defend until the cavalry arrives.

But definitely do not make any further "offers" to anyone about anything related to this. Your past offer could come back to haunt you if something unfortunate should happen to this person on his own time in the near future.

Hopefully you don't need to be reminded that the "protection of self and others from bodily harm" rule remains in effect as always.

Get it in your head NOW to keep a level head and to remain polite and civilized if you must speak directly to this person, especially in a situation that potentially could become heated. Also, do not "brandish" any weapon at any time...no matter how tempting. Simple as that.

[newerguy]

I knew a guy a while back who was in a similar situation (the ex-husband wasn't an immigrant), and he tried to be the hero and came running over when the girlfriend said her ex-was on his way over. She stabbed the ex- and he went to jail (not just arrested) for, among other things, having a loaded rifle in his car out front (a crime in New York). He didn't do much time, but he did time.

[don_hamer]

I agree with newarcher on the first part, but not about leaving your girlfriend. I think if you get a restraining order and alert INS, then everything should be ok, but there is always possibility that something else might happen. In that case, don't use a gun. Call the cops. That's my 2 cents.

[Eghad]

Police/restraining order should be the first option....

[OnTheFly]

What does a restraining order do for you? The police don't sit outside your door. If the person in question shows up, you can call the police and he can be charged with violating the order. However, if he decides to kick down the door, etc., isn't the restraining order about as useful as a "no gun zone"?

Maybe I don't understand how these work.

Fly

Edit: Don't get me wrong, the restraining order may be enough to deter this individual, but when the SHTF, I would want more than a piece of paper to defend myself or loved ones.

[C Carman]

Domestic problems are always bad news. I had a friend who beat up the abusive ex boyfriend. Well the girl ended up getting back together with said abusive ex boyfriend and my friend did 3 months for battery. I wish i could offer some good advice, but all i know for sure is with situations like this, there sometimes seems like there's no rite answer.

[newarcher]

On the fly,

Your are right, heck look at the number of women killed by ex's that are under restraining orders.

The place that really helps is when that person busts down your door and you blast the heck out of them. It helps show the sheeple on the jury (if it gets that far) that you did everything in your power to let the law handle it.

New

[Eghad]

Not much....but if he does try something you have documents on the record about abusive behavior. if he comes over to the house but doesnt break in he can be arrested for violating the order.

[Hard Ball]

"What does a restraining order do for you?"

Very little.

[Fremmer]

What does a restraining order do for you? The police don't sit outside your door. If the person in question shows up, you can call the police and he can be charged with violating the order. However, if he decides to kick down the door, etc., isn't the restraining order about as useful as a "no gun zone"?

Here's what it does:

Ruger's girlfriend's family presently is in possession of a child. There is no court order saying that child's father is dangerous, must stay away, and/or can't have possession of his child. The problem occurs the next time child's father goes to the house and wants to see the child. It is his kid. As the father/husband, he has the right to have possession of his kid. The claims of abuse and/or a shotgun won't stop the father from demanding possession of the child, especially since the child's mother is apparently unwilling or unable to care for the child. If I were the father, the next time I'd just call the police and tell them to meet me at the house because this family has my kid and won't let me take him home so that I can take care of the child. Here's my ID and a copy of the birth certificate to confirm I'm the father. I want my kid!

If the mother can obtain a protection order granting her temporary custody of the child and forbiding the abusive father from being around the child's mother and/or the child, at least the family would have a court order to show the police and justify their refusal to allow the child's father to possess the child.

Ug. My explaination is terrible. Sorry, I'm tired.......:o

[Magdaddy]

I think it's a mistake to get between a parent and their child, especially if he has'nt been proven un-fit. Call your local children services and talk to them, I would be very careful not to get on the wrong side of the law on this one.

[rugerdude]

Hey, thanks for the advice guys. This turned out to be a non-event for now, which is juuuust fine by me.

Uhm, yeah, I wasn't intending to brandish the gun at any point other than to defend my life or the lives of my girlfriend's family. I know the rules of self-defense and I was not looking to shoot anyone.

Yeah, this was kind of a sticky situation, but it's going to get better soon.

The guy ended up calling my GF's sister and threatening to kill her.....on voicemail. So I'm thinking a restraining order will be no problem at all, and they had every intention of getting one in the first place.

Also, after they get divorced, I think they're also going to see about deporting him.

Thanks again.

[chrisandclauida2]

if you try to keep a kid from the parent you break the law. the mom should have emergency orders and restraining order to bar his unsupervised access so 1 he doesnt hurt and 2 he doesnt take the kid to Mexico.

the paperwork is useless but it does give you grounds to legally stop the dad from getting at his kid.


remember a domestic abuse arrest[ which is what you would be arrested for and falls under Clinton's domestic abuse law] will immediately take away your gun rights. you can possess any firearm or ammo and this could be permanent.

have the mom do everything right get emergency orders preventing unsupervised visits by the dad so at least your not breaking any laws stopping him. cover your ass cause you cant stop him from jail.

[Creature]

A restraining order creates a paper trail...yeah, johnny law may not camp out in front of your house if you have a restraining order. But johnny law has a very long arm. However, he needs a reason to reach out and grab the knuckledragger if he isnt caught red-handed. The restarining order does that.

[John28226]

Creature has it right. And by the way, Penguin, just because an alien marries a citizen they are not automatically a citzen themselves. Look it up if you like.
John
Charlotte, NC

[Xenia]

I agree with the post above that suggested calling Protective Services or Child Welfare whatever they call it where you live. Report a concern that he is abusive and an illegal alien and your fear he will harm the child.

The next step is to get the child into a different home. However, the mother of the child has to do that. AND she has to know where the child is.

Even though he is an illegal alien he still has parental rights. But so does the mother. The mother could move the child where ever she wants to move the child. When the divorce happens, the court could restrict this and require that the mother keep the father informed at all times of the child's whearabouts and wellbeing but until this happens she is free to move the child.

I strongly recommend that the mother go to the local Legal Aid and get legal advice. The family helping look after the child might also be wise to go to an attorny that specializes in divorce and custody issues.

I do think this child is at risk of ending up on the run with the illegal alien. That is not a good life for a child but it is also not necessarily a life or death situation. Therefore, I do not think a shotgun would be the way to go.

[T. O'Heir]

"...MY girlfriend's sister..." You're not family and have no legal right to do or say anything. If you show up with a firearm, you're likely the one who will be arrested.
"...threatening to kill her.....on voicemail..." Tell her to take that to the police.

[The Biker]

The 'White Knight' usually takes it up the ol' wazoo. Let the cops deal with it.

Biker

[springmom]

Ummmm....

I'm glad it ended up a non issue in the short term, but as the guy is still on the loose, it is still a problem.

I don't know where you live, but in any decent size city there should be women's shelters. She needs to be in one. Your girlfriend should call the domestic violence hotline and explain the situation. The sister ought to be able to be placed, with her child, in a shelter, and such shelters are usually very hard for violent spouses to find (for a reason).

I'm curious: why can't your girlfriend's sister get a shotgun and protect herself????? Granted, she can't be awake 24/7, but a combination of alarms on the house, a dog at the door, and a Mossberg 500 at her bedside ought to change the odds a bit, at least. I'm not picking on you for wanting to help; but this is her problem, and I'm unclear from your post as to what she is doing to solve it, and what she is doing to protect herself. Unless there is some legal reason that she's prohibited from owning a firearm, it seems to me that the obvious answer is get her a shotgun and teach her to use it.

You can do that legally. Give a man a fish....

Springmom

[jfrey123]

+1 for Springmom!

My roommate's girlfriend's parent's store (say that five times fast) down in Reno has been robbed once in the past, with the bank across the street being robbed multiple times that they can remember in their decade of business. The girlfriend here is on her way to inheriting said shop, and I'm trying to convince her that she needs a little 20ga pump under the counter. She's only about 5" and 80lbs, so the ol' 3" magnum 12ga with a field barrel is out...

Another convert on her way. She's gone from disliking firearms to interested in learning how they work. :D

[workinwifdakids]

First, if this choir-boy resides in the US illegally, then he's guilty of violating federal immigration laws, human smuggling, and federal/state tax evasion, and probably federal document fraud. And that's just BEFORE he started beating his wife in front of his daughter, so I doubt he gives a flying turkey [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] about a restraining order - especially when he's drunk.

BUT the restraining order will serve some use - he'll use it to wipe YOUR blood off of HIS knife before he flees to Mexico, where they have a non-extradition policy in cases of LWOP or the death penalty. They won't even extradite for 1st-degree murder on a cop, and Bush is so busy giving sexual favors to the Mexican government, your life isn't going to mean a thing. Your death will be on B27 of your local paper, and they won't mention until the 9th paragraph that he has 'immigration issues.'

Next, most local law enforcement have a strict (if unwritten) policy of never being involved in illegal immigration. So that's out of the question. Even if they could pick this guy up, ICE refuses to accept anyone from an immigration hold. So, you're out of luck there.

Did you say deportation? LMAO. It'll never happen.

Your best advice is to give this girl enough money to buy her own 20 gauge and a box of shells, take her to the range, and then - yes - dump the girlfriend. Tell her:

"Save the drama - fo yo mama."

[revjen45]

Reply to Newarcher's comment about not knowing why they like knives so much. We had a neighbor whose situation was similar to the first one in this thread: lady married/shacked up with Mojado (Spanish term for person from Mexico here illegally. Literal translation: wet). Domestic violence escalating from loud verbal to blows. One night he pulled into the shared driveway (duplex) and put his hand thru the kitchen window to gain entry. He was incensed over access to his kids. A few moments later she was frantically banging on our door and in a panicked voice asking us to let her in. She was covered with blood. I expected Oscar to come thru the door waving a bloody knife and attack us. (No gun in a ready state). He had stabbed her in the forehead and butt, and their apartment and kids were covered with blood. Seeing this my wife thought he had butchered the kids, but the blood was his- he had severed the artery in the forearm flexors when he put his hand thru the window. The police found his lunchbox full of bladed weapons, mostly gaudy letter openers. People aren't allowed to own guns in Mexico or any number of other places, so a knife is the next best thing. The Filipinos have made a formal martial art out of the knife called Escrima. The moral of this long story is never doubt how serious a threat a knife is, and don't get involved in the situation. In particular don't take it upon yourself and your Mossberg to be the White Knight.

[Socrates]

Know your local law, and, your local police. INS is worthless.

I don't give advice on divorce cases, other then STAY out of them!!!

Police hate them because the girl calls, police come, police beat on boyfriend a little, because he's loaded and abusive, girl shoots police with shotgun, changing mind about sending wonderful boyfriend to jail...

If the police fear to go there, what are you doing in the middle???

Woman got herself in this mess, let her figure out how to protect her own children, and, herself. It should be a crime to have a child with an illegal alien as well...

Dr. S

[Tanzer]

Can they stay with you for a while? You're better off defending your own home than someone else's. I don't know if Oklahoma has a castle doctrine, but you'd still be on firmer ground even if you just mace him or whatever. In the mean time, do what others have suggested and get the SOB out of the country. If she doesn't own the house, MOVE. She can always come back, but any LEO will tell you, these are among their least favorite issues.
It may sound lke I'm overlooking obvious logic. Others have suggested more reasonable alternatives, like dumping her, but when relationships come in to play, we get stubborn and macho and all that crap. My wife had a (mostly verbally) abusive ex-husband, but he was a wimp when it came to brass tacks. After he went to her house and threw a fit (threw a coffee cup, made a scene), she moved in with me. Smart on my part? anyone's call, but "tough guy" turned into "sob story guy" in a hurry. My step-daughter had a similar issue in college - renting a house with "Mr. Wonderful". Same deal. Ex-hubby was to much of a wuss to help. In both instances I guess I put myself in possible harm's way, but we do such things for loved ones. All this is assuming that by "girl friend" you mean the only one you have and that you're serious, which is why you posted here. Otherwise, move on.

[Mannlicher]

Okay, this is going to sound a little complicated and dramatic, so bear with me.



Since you did ask for advice, mine would be:

First: call the cops, and stay out of it. Nothing you can do will help the situation, and most likely will land you in jail.

Second: find a new girlfriend with less baggage.

[RevolverLover]

The guy ended up calling my GF's sister and threatening to kill her.....on voicemail. So I'm thinking a restraining order will be no problem at all, and they had every intention of getting one in the first place.


First have your girlfriends family go to the police/sherriffs dept. with the voicemail, then get a restraining order barring him from seeing his daughter. Make sure that you say he is an illegal and is a flight risk to mexico.

Then I highly recommend think if all this is worth a relationship with your girlfriend.

[grey sky]

Have to go with find a new GF this is chaos related, chaos people move from one crissis to the next no help for them and it will suck your soul out.
To be blunt RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN

[epic4444]

well now that hes been legally married to a U.S. citizen he is to a legal u.s. citizen..i live in california i know how all this **** works....and if i was you i would certian show up with that mossberg if you care about there family like it was your own then protect them like they was your own...explain the rest later

[joab]

well now that hes been legally married to a U.S. citizen he is to a legal u.s. citizen..i live in california i know how all this **** worksWell, not so much
The myth of instant citizenship through marriage is a misunderstanding perpetuated by Hollywood's poor script writers
My wife has been married to a US citizen for about 10 years and is still not a citizen, she won't be until she takes the test just like everybody else

Being married does not even give you legal status unless you have done the paperwork

Many ,many other misunderstandings here

The mother of the child has the right to place that child in the care of anyone she sees fit
The police cannot remove that child from that care unless it is deemed that the temp caregivers are unfit

The boyfriend in law is perfectly legal in going over to the home as long as he does not initiate a conflict

Restraining orders escalate simple trespass to felony stalking if violated (in Florida)

While that RO may not help in defending your life before hand it will definitely help to defend your life afterwards

[The Immortal]

CYA-Creating and maintaining a true and accurate paper trail will go a long way if things get ugly.