If you open this thread you can't laugh(hopefully)

[kristop64089]

I want to buy a new gun, and I've decided it will be a .25 acp. Only because I want one. and maybe for the OCCASIONAL pocket carry.

My question is What is a decent "new" gun?

I'm considering buying a pheonix. This gun won'y get a lot of playtime. I really don't want to spend a bundle on a gun I won't use much.

what say you

[wolverine350]

Beretta Bobcat model 21, bout the best and most reliable and small enough to fit in the pocket and only abut 269.00

[kcshooter]

DO NOT BUY A .25 FOR CARRY! A thick leather jacket can stop this round! Buy a .380 at the minimum, preferably at least a 9mm.
Also DO NOT BUY A PHOENIX! it will spend more time at the factory than in your hand. a good friend bought one for a cheap 22 to plink and teach his wife to shoot a bit, and it was never reliable, even after the 2nd trip to the factory. he traded it on a beretta neos for plinking (and after shooting his i bought one myself). Phoenix is a crap gun, please trust me on this.
To buy a small handgun cheap, i guess id recommend a bersa or keltec .380 or 9mm. both are under $300, the keltec has a lifetime warranty, a $250 price tag, and a cult following (www.ktog.org). there are a few other options out there but the most important thing to take away from this is a .25 is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a reasonable self-defense round.

[smooks75]

YUP! What wolverine said! Can't go wrong, and the price is right!

[Bill DeShivs]

You might find a new Beretta 950 Jetfire.
BTW- a leather jacket won't "stop" a .25, unless it was fired from a seriously worn bore.
A Keltec P32 would be a much better carry gun, but you said .25.
Bill

[kcshooter]

Bill,
Yeah, actually, it will. I have seen a demonstration of it where it was fired into a heavy leather biker-style jacket, and where the two panels crossed over each other in the front, it didnt make it thru. My point was that a .25 is not a carry weapon caliber.

[Lavid2002]

+1 on thew berreettah! -50 jetfire

[SteelyNirvana]

I honestly would go with a 22lr than a .25. I know that neither are carry wepons but the ballistics suck for a .25acp.

[Tom2]

Get the Beretta and some of the little 35 grain HP ammo, that runs a bit faster, like up to 1000 fps. It is more like a hot 22 than the 50 grain, which is good for plinking and testing old guns. If you got some more money, you can get the little Browning Baby used, or one of the clones of it. They will work but are smaller and less to hold onto.

[Rimrod]

I have a Pheonix PH25, which I bought used, the magazines are junk and the gun has too many safties that are a pain in the neck to use.

I don't mind cheap .25s but I would look at a different one.

[LFOD1776]

+1 on the Baby Browning. If you've already decided on the caliber, you might as well get a classic.

[kristop64089]

I already have a bersa .380, a 9mm a .22lr. I am getting a Kel-Tec .32, I just wanted a .25 for the heck of it..... What about a Tangflogio?...

This wouldn't typically be a SD weapon. I have others for that. I just want to play with one. and It's better than a pocket knife.

[roman3]

Bauer makes a very good copy of the Baby Browning

[Tom2]

OK on the Bauer. Not as nicely finished as a Browning, but the one I had worked and being stainless, it won't turn brown in your pocket, hopefully. Tanfoglio? Used to make cheap Beretta knockoffs. Can't recommend because of no info. And this is one gun where you want to do research to find out for sure, as who wants a crappy jamomatic. Lot of cheap or even less than cheap 25's made over the years, and some are decidedly unrel. or junk. Yet the Beretta Jetfire seems perfectly rel. even though there is no extractor!

[kristop64089]

Is, the beretta a top break design?, If so how do they eject

[PSP]

Look here for the baby Browning by PSP: http://precisionsmallarms.com/
These are very small, very well made.

[wolverine350]

the Beretta is a simple blow back design, no extractors on the face of the bolt, it has the tip up barrel

[MPanova]

Taurus makes a PT25

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=178&category=Pistol

I have one just like the one pictured. I only have maybe 300 rounds through it but every single one went bang and got ready for the following shot. It may not be enough rounds to call it a dependable weapon just yet but its a damn good start. I picked mine up at the gun show for $150.00 out the door. I belive Acadamy sells them for less then $200 if you don't want to wait for a show ;)

[RsqVet]

The browings are nice, I'm very partial to the Walther TPH if you can find one in 25, the Beretta design is OK, it would be my pick of what is available new.

If I wanted a 25 and could shop forever I'd get a TPH if I could find one. I think it's a nice design, don't know if german made ones were available in 25 and the american ones folks seem to either love or hate.

The early Seecamps were 25 as well, if you want a 25 jsut for the sake of a 25, of ocurse they are collectable now and sometimes higher than a new 32 in price which can be had for under 500 bucks now. Heck I seems I'm arguing for a 32 if you can belive that but any of the decent 32 pocket guns woudl be my pick over a 25... Seecamp is the best, baretta would be another choice.

None of them are what I'd carry so reliability is not much of an issue for me.

[Mosin44az]

I owned a Beretta Model 21 in .25 and can recommend it as a quality, reliable gun. It should not cost you much more than $230, even with tax.

I would rather carry the Beretta than a Kel-tec .32, because I do not trust Kel-tec after repeat bad experiences with that brand. Having a gun that can be trusted to WORK is more important than the caliber. Compare the two and the better quality of the Beretta is apparent.

I had no malfunctions with the Beretta with a variety of ammo, through several hundred rounds. The front pin on which the barrel pivots did tend to "walk" a bit but was easily tapped back in after every range session.

I did notice that the magazine button (located on the lower part of the grip) was a bit too easily tripped; this is a genuine concern as several times I pulled the gun from my pocket and found the mag partially out. See what you think about this feature. It's possible that the proper holster would eliminate this issue.

You won't have any trouble unloading the barrel with the tip-up system; pop the release and the barrel flings the cartridge across the room!

Writing this begins to make me wish I still had the little M21, and if you have your heart set on a .25 the M21 in my opinion is the best choice, smaller than the Taurus and much higher quality than Phoenix. The 950BS is single-action, and no longer available new.

I did ultimately decide I needed something with more power, and now carry a Smith Model 638 as a pocket gun. Smaller choices? Maybe a Kahr P9 covert or even the NAA Black Widow mini-revolver, but we'll see...

EDIT: just checked the above link on the Taurus, and notice its mag button is in the conventional spot, which means it may be less prone to inadvertant dropping of the mag because most holsters would cover that spot. Taurus is cheaper too, and also probably worth a look.

[kymasabe]

My suggestion is forget about the Phoenix, they're junk. If you want a small pocket pistol, I'd suggest going either up or down in caliber. .25acp is a really weak round. You're much better off with either a .22LR or a .32. If you could swing it, get up to .380, 9x18 Mak, or 9mm. Look here for decent prices on PA-63's, FEG's and a couple of revolvers. http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=58
If you want to go down to .22LR, I'd suggest the Taurus PT-22. Many will say they suck but most of those who complain about them didn't take the time to find the ammo they like. They run like a champ with CCI Velocitors.
Another suggestion would be the Kel-Tec P32. My P32 is my everyday carry gun, rides in my pocket, barely know it's there.
There are lots of other options, the Kel-Tec P3AT, the Bersa .380 and on and on.

[Bill DeShivs]

The .25 is more powerful than a .22lr out of a 2" barrel. It is also more reliable in an autopistol.
The Beretta 950 Jetfire is discontinued, but it is far and away a better design than the larger model 21. The 21 is an adapatation of the Jetfire, enlarged to handle the longer .22lr cartridge and the double action mechanism.
The Browning/Bauer/PSP is a good choice, too.
There are few newly made .25s, but almost any of the brand names (Colt, Astra, Beretta, Bernardelli, Browning, etc.) will be excellent little firearms if you find one used. If you can find an older, Italian-made (pre-1968) Jetfire you will have a classic little pocket gun. The Italian guns are much better than the later American models.

[austinguy23]

What do you plan on using the gun for? I hope it won't be for self-defense.

The .380 caliber is the bare minimum for personal defense...

[kristop64089]

This gun is just for kicks.May daily carry is a S&W 637. It might get some RARE pocket time(like for a wedding or when dress allows) But that would be rare.

I really just want one so I can say I have one, I like collecting guns and I think it is a "unique" piece of Americana.

I'm not going to defend the planet with it. For that I have my AR-15 and my 1911:D

[Bill DeShivs]

"The .380 caliber is the bare minimum for personal defense..."
Yeah them .25s, .32s, and .22s just bounce off bad guys. They haven't worked for 100 years ;^)

[kristop64089]

I hate shooting things (like hogs and cattle ) 1 time with a .22. They seem to drop so fast. :)

I never buy into the caliber wars. I know what I can do with a gun,and many times just the sight of a gun is enough to deter an attack.

I know the guys full of machismo are bustin my nuts because of my choice of calibers, But, like I said it is not my main carry gun, just a toy

[junkpile]

never buy into the caliber wars. I know what I can do with a gun, and many times just the sight of a gun is enough to deter an attack.


Agreed. And shot placement is king.

[kcshooter]

"The .25 is more powerful than a .22lr out of a 2" barrel"

No, it isn't. check out "http://www.brassfetcher.com/". A .22lr will penetrate about 25-30% more than a .25, look at facts, not personal opinions


"Yeah them .25s, .32s, and .22s just bounce off bad guys. They haven't worked for 100 years "

Are you actually telling me you would trust your life with a .22, .25, or .32 caliber round? Anyone dumb enough to think they can defend themselves with one of these, deserves to have to.


"Agreed. And shot placement is king."

Have you ever been in a defensive situation? Shot placement in the heat of the moment is not as easy as saying it in a forum.


"I know the guys full of machismo are bustin my nuts because of my choice of calibers,"

Your opening statement said you will be using this for "pocket carry", just trying to help you be able to defend yourself, should the need arise.


"many times just the sight of a gun is enough to deter an attack"

Yeah, but if it isn't, your stuck standing there with a pea-shooter. Good luck.

[kristop64089]

I should have been more clear in my initial post..."pocket carry" would be on a very limited basis, only if I could carry no other gun, which is rare if ever.

And even tho i did not make the post, I have been in a defensive situation where, although I did not have to pull the trigger, I Had shot placement.

And I need to add, this is not my only gun, I have from a .380 all the way to .45 for carry. albeit the ballistics aren't that impressive for a .25acp, it is a gun. Weak as it is ,if you use it as it was intended. It will work, We can play the what if game all day. I don't want to

[kcshooter]

"I have been in a defensive situation where, although I di not have to pull the trigger, I Had shot placement."

That's a little insulting, if you didn't have to pull the trigger, you a. weren't in a defensive situation, and b. don't know if you had the shot placement, as there was no shot.

OK, let's say someone else beats you to the draw- you see them pulling their gun out as you reach for yours- is really taking the time to land that shot from a .25 exactly where you want it, or is the tried and tested method of point shooting (with a sufficent caliber) at center mass going to save your life? If you aren't going to be realistic about this then there is no point in this conversation. Ask someone who takes their life on the line regularly, like a cop or private security agent, if they would carry a .22, .25, or .32 to defend themselves and see if they can answer without laughing.

Or just buy a junky .25 and pray you never have to use it.

[dbgun]

I bought a Taurus PT-25 at gun show, a few years ago. I got it because I wanted to shoot (targets, cans, etc.)a .25acp. I didn't buy it for HD. After I got tired of it, I sold it at a gun show for almost the same price, I bought it for-$200.

Like everyone else has been saying, I wouldn't bet my life on this little pistol.

[kristop64089]

Kcshooter you must be misunderstanding the wholpoint of this thread . It was not ot find a reliable .25 for SD, it was to find a decent .25 as a collector, and to somtimes throw in my pocket, and if that was the case, who makes a reliable .25

And as for my defensive situation. I had the shot placement. I was staring down the barrel of a .38 and as I brought My gun up to his eye level he dropped his. So a) i called his bluff. or b) his gun wasn't loaded. BUT, INMO that is damn good shot placement.

I appreciate the info you are giving, but, I am not trying to justify the .25 as a carry gun

[kcshooter]

"And as for my defensive situation. I had the shot placement. I was staring down the barrel of a .38 and as I brought My gun up to his eye level he dropped his. So a) i called his bluff. or b) his gun wasn't loaded. BUT, INMO that is damn good shot placement."


Sorry, gotta call Bull[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] on that one, either you're full of it, or you're extremely dumb and lucky.

In a situation where I am "looking down the barrel of" any gun, I would have shot him dead where he stands! (Well, one of us would be dead, I'd prefer it to be him). If you truely had a gun leveled at you and you didn't fire, you're a fool.

How is that shot placement? YOU NEVER SHOT! Duh.


And I understand that was the point of the thread but I wanted to give my $.02 to inform that a .25 is a bad decision to ever carry ever, even occasionally, and several others, not you, had opinions that a .25 would be ok as a SD weapon.

[kristop64089]

Honestlyguy, it was no B.S. it was very much luck. There was alot going on in that situation that I did not go into detail about, looking back I now know that was a very bad situation I was in. so if you want to need to know I'll tell ya

[Bill DeShivs]

Kcshooter
I'm very comfortable with my statements. I probably have shot more .25s than most people have seen. Regardless of your Internet justification, most published .22 ballistics are from a much longer barrel than 2 inches. Yes- I carry a .32, and am totally insulted by your crass remark.
No one in their right mind wants to shoot anyone, and certainly no one wants to be shot.
Kristop did not ask for your expert opinion on stopping power.
As you are a new member, I'm sure you want to impress us with your infinite gun knowledge, but instead are impressing us with your arrogance.

[kristop64089]

For the record I went thru and searched quite a few posts that Bill and Tom2 had written. They don't offer a jaded opinion on the .25acp. They own and shoot them for what they are. They posted fact and user experience (good and bad) which, is what was asking for. Your opinions helped alot (thanks)

I wanted the gun for collecting and fun, after reading what they posted I went with my gut and purchased(off gunbroker) an excam .25 cal made by Tangfolio (gt-27) it had mostly good reviews. None of the .25 I researched were with out fail (no gun is, especially if you start turning stones)

Like I said I didn't want to spend a bundle on a gun that may not get much playtime. The beretta was too high for a gun I couldn't handle. If I get burnt on this I won't be hurt to bad.

KCshooter I respect your position, and understand where you are coming from. Maybe I'll see you at the range

Here are some pics, If someone can help me to get more info on it that would be great!

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t161/kristop64089/pix514102171.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t161/kristop64089/pix514102390.jpg

[Rimrod]

Here we go.

"A .22lr will penetrate about 25-30% more than a .25, look at facts, not personal opinions".

What is the mathematical equation to turn power into penetration? I do know for a fact that the .25 is more reliable than the .22lr and what little power difference there is between the two isn't worth the sacrifice. And my personal opinions are based on facts, the facts that I learned while shooting both calibers, not while surfing the web. And, based on my facts, I would choose the .25 over the .22 any day, even if the the .22 had a longer barrel.

"Are you actually telling me you would trust your life with a .22, .25, or .32 caliber round? Anyone dumb enough to think they can defend themselves with one of these, deserves to have to."

First of all most people who choose a .22, .25 or .32 do so because of neccessity, usually cost. Not everyone who lives in a rundown neighborhood can afford a Kmber or Glock or what ever. If you don't understand that come to the "rust belt" and take a look around, and bring a can of soup. Some choose it because of size contraints, some becuase of both.

Secondly show me one self defense handgun caliber that is 100% guarenteed to stop every attacker. I don't care what the gun writers and anyone else who thinks the .380 is the bare minimum for self defense says, none of them are good enough. I agree with you though, anyone dumb enough to think the .45 ACP, 9mm, 40S&W, 357 mag., etc, etc can defend themselves deserves to have to.

The guy your shooting has more to do with how well your cartridge will work than the caliber itself, the question isn't what you are carrying but how you use it.

[MPanova]

kristop64089

It looks to be in good shape. How much did this one set ya back?

And please give us a report once you get it and have a chance to fire it ;)

[denfoote]

It looks like it's in decent shape.
Let us know how it shoots.

[TexasCop]

pick up a used beretta, I got a used 950 and 21 (the 22lr and the 25acp) both from the same shop for 300 out the door.

[kcshooter]

Kristop
Like I said, just wanted to make sure you weren't gonna rely on this as a defense gun when there are better caliber choices, and from your follow up posts stating this was really just for fun, looks like you knew that already. Just trying to help, hope you enjoy your new shooter! What ranges do you shoot at regularly?

Bill
Since we are on the internet, I figured that would be the best place to be able to back up my statements, other than "well I've shot a lot of them so I know". I too have shot a few of these and have seen the .25 in action and that is why I feel so strongly about this. You're right, no one wants to shoot someone or be shot, but I'd much rather be prepared for the worst than not be ready. I don't care what you carry, as long as you know the strengths and weaknesses of the round you have chosen. Experience has led me personally to never have anything under a 9mm on me. As far as my arrogance, I'd rather see someone who plans to be able to defend themself actually be able to do so and resent me for my opinon than be a nice guy who tells someone a .25 is good protection. (p.s. I'm not really new here.)

Rimrod
I wasn't advocating either round as a self defense round, simply refuting the statement that the ballistics were better on a .25 than a .22. And it isn't a math equation, its called a ballistic gelatin live fire penetration test. Of course reliaility is better in a centerfire over a rimfire round, but I wasnt argueing that the .22 is a better round to carry, neither is adequate. As far as carrying smaller calibers for costs sake or size restraints, get real. There are super compact and reliable .380's and 9mm's under $250, (keltec, bersa). Are there many reliable guns you'd trust your life with that cost significantly less? And in a self-defense situation, it's not about which one will stop every attack every time, but I'd sure rather have a caliber that is known to have a higher chance to stop than ones known for their total lack of stopping power, wouldn't you?

Besides, didn't we establish he wasn't using it for defense already? He wanted a shooter in a caliber that was new to him, I can't argue with that.

[Bill DeShivs]

I have seen a woman shot 5 times with a .25. She had open heart surgery 2 months before. She lived. I know a man that was shot in the chest with a 12 ga. at 5 feet. He lived, too. He ran 35 yards after getting shot. There are many instances of one shot stops with all the calibers. You just never know.
I have quite a few guns-from .22 short to .45. If I knew I would have to shoot, I would want a damned big one-but even a .25 beats throwing rocks if you know how to shoot it.

[PSP]

I'm not going to defend the planet with it. For that I have my AR-15 and my 1911

:D
Well said.

[kristop64089]

It looks to be in good shape. How much did this one set ya back?


127, free shipping +10 for permit, and $25 for ffl. So in all $160 bucks

What ranges do you shoot at regularly?

Parma, Pigeon Hill, Gallatin. I'm North of KC and Rarely make it down to shoot, do it at home alot.

It looks to be in good shape. How much did this one set ya back?

And please give us a report once you get it and have a chance to fire it

Maybe I can send it to Surmgewhwere and have him throw it in the mud for me:)

[Rimrod]

kcshooter,

Looking at the penetration tests on the site you listed the .22s and .25s were very similar in pentetration for many of the bullets used out of short barrels. They did show some impressive expansion with some of the .25s though, which would impede penetration but still cause tissue damage. I wouldn't rate either one as better for penetration.

And you are correct that there are .380s and 9mms for under $250, but I know many people who don't have an extra $250 to spare. But I do have a Titan Tiger .25acp that I spent a whopping $35 dollars for and that is the point of my argument, $250 may not be a lot of money to you but to many it is. And yes that Titan is reliable, more reliable than any Bersa I've ever shot in fact.

And as for the calibers that are "known to stop" and the ones that are "known not to stop", what are they? And what REAL, RELIABLE source do you have to show it? And if you name that gun writers mythical work on stopping power, it's already been discussed here.

Since it isn't for self defense a good load is a #3 buckshot pellet pressed into an empty case using just the primer for a charge.

By the way, I am real.

Rod

[kcshooter]

"you are correct that there are .380s and 9mms for under $250, but I know many people who don't have an extra $250 to spare. But I do have a Titan Tiger .25acp that I spent a whopping $35 dollars for and that is the point of my argument, $250 may not be a lot of money to you but to many it is"

Well I guess it's a matter of what you feel your life is worth, I'd rather have a louisville slugger than a $35 .25acp gun to trust my life with. Bats are real cheap.


"And as for the calibers that are "known to stop" and the ones that are "known not to stop", what are they? And what REAL, RELIABLE source do you have to show it? And if you name that gun writers mythical work on stopping power, it's already been discussed here"

Yeah, you're probably right, your .25 will probably do just as much good as my .45.
No, really.
No, seriously.
No, I mean it.

Can I quote common sense as a source?


" I know a man that was shot in the chest with a 12 ga. at 5 feet. He lived, too. He ran 35 yards after getting shot"

Ouch!
But in that case, you gotta admit, that was the wrong load. Had to be birdshot or something. Either way, that would totally sting like a mofo.

One time, the vice-president shot a guy, in the face at, like, point blank range, with a shotgun.....

[Rimrod]

"Yeah, you're probably right, your .25 will probably do just as much good as my .45."

The point was that there are cartridges with a higher potential to stop and some with a lower potential to stop. Yes the higher potential to stop is a better choice but not always possible or feasible to obtain. But there will be times when the .25 is just as good as the .45.

"Common sense"? If it's so common why are the only ones who think that way get their information off the internet while the ones who disagree with you have gotten their information from actually shooting them?

"I'd rather have a louisville slugger than a $35 .25acp gun to trust my life with. Bats are real cheap."

That statement says it all, thanks for the debate.

[Doggieman]

he wanted a .25, he got one. Looks all right... a lot like a Beretta. The odds are 1000 to 1 you won't ever need to pull it on anyone.

[kcshooter]

But there will be times when the .25 is just as good as the .45.

Well, you better hope that the only time you ever need a firearm are one of those times! Myself, I'll be prepared for any time.


"Common sense"? If it's so common why are the only ones who think that way get their information off the internet while the ones who disagree with you have gotten their information from actually shooting them?

Yes, common sense. Try it sometime. Common sense tells me, along with anyone else with half a brain and any real shooting experience and training, that a .45 or 9mm will do you more good than a .25. Why you continue to take the position that the potential stopping power of the .45 or 9mm is not drasticly more than a .25 is confusing, but in a funny way.


I'd rather have a louisville slugger than a $35 .25acp gun to trust my life with.

My point here is that my life is worth more to me than $35 bucks. When I bought my first gun, I scrimped and saved for almost half a year before I had enough to buy what I wanted and felt comfortable with. I was a college student, and it was a smith and wesson j-frame model 19 .357 revolver. Sure, I could have bought 4 or 5 useless junk throw-aways in that time but this was a weapon to me, a tool to be used to be able to protect myself in a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]-hitting-the fan situation. Your arguement that your $35 .25acp is what you trust to save your life is the rambling of a fool.

he wanted a .25, he got one. Looks all right... a lot like a Beretta. The odds are 1000 to 1 you won't ever need to pull it on anyone.

Yeah, and it looks like he got a good buy, nice shooter for the money, and won't be relying on it for true personal protection, because he knows better. I bet its a blast to shoot, too! The rest of this conversation started when someone implied .25 was as adequate of a defense round as a 9mm or .45. I just couldn't let that slide...

[Doggieman]

nah, .25 ain't as good.. though if you carry it when you wouldn't be carrying a bigger .45, then it's infinitely better ;)

[Rimrod]

Doggieman, anyone with common sense and half a brain, knows that if you can't carry an expensive .45 the next best choice is to stuff a Louisville Slugger down your pants.

"Common sense tells me, along with anyone else with half a brain..."

I figured that out from your first post.

By the way, doesn't your common sense, real training or experience know that the model 19 is a K-frame? Anyone who really owned one should know that.

"Your arguement that your $35 .25acp is what you trust to save your life is the rambling of a fool."

First of all, I never said that. Just like I never said most of what you seem to think I said. I don't need to trust my life to a $35 .25acp because I have these.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24243&stc=1&d=1178709575

Secondly I just wanted to highlight that remark because you've crossed a line several times and I just wanted the moderators to notice it.

Have a nice day.

[kristop64089]

Holy crap Rimrod! Thats an awesome collection( I think after you post a pic like that you're supposed to say BAM!)

I would also like to announce that I am up for adoption:D

On a different note, The .25acp is a cartridge that was developed in a kinder time, That being said I would feel safer having that in my pocket, over being empty handed.

There are certain times where I can't take any of my guns larger than that in.

Granted I will be getting the kel-tec .32 or guardian .32, but Between now and then if I happen to HAVE to take this gun with me, I will. At least with this I can shoot from a distance, instead of being within 0-3'

I don't care who you are, I guarantee if I were to pull a gun and point it at you, you would not try to determine caliber. You would probably poop in your pants. Now if you are hopped up on dope then yes a more powerful caliber would be needed to be more damaging to you. But, with a .25 at short distances 7 shots to the face(with training, not hard) It is game over!

[Rimrod]

Thanks Kris, I have another safe identical to that one that will be all long guns and I hope they all fit. But I need to level it before I start to fill it up.

Anyway the .25acp is highly under rated. No it's not a .45 or a 9mm but it can do some serious damage. It wouldn't be my first choice but also not my last.

It was a poket handgun for gentlemen to carry but with modern technology larger calibers are available that are similar in size. Imagine if that same technology was used on the .25acp., you could have a very small handgun with a large capacity magazine, I'm sure lack of interest is keeping the manufacturers from exploring this though. The big differnce is the small guns in large calibers sell for a lot more than some of the .25s which can go quite cheap. And regardless of price if a firearm is moderately accurate and dependable it is just as good as the most expensive model in a given caliber.

And always remember the most important part of self defense, regardless of what you are armed with, is to avoid trouble and be aware of your surroundings.

[kcshooter]

Wow, Rimrod, you sure showed me. First you tell me about your $35 Titan then show me your collection so I must be really impressed now, right?

Just like I never said most of what you seem to think I said
Oh, well in that case, I'll stop quoting you.

My entire point of this whole thing was that if you plan to carry something, a .25 is a bad choice to protect yourself with. My point was that a 9mm or .45 would be a better round for SD. You have some kind of problem with that statement, I can't understand that.

And yeah, when it comes down to a $35 throw-away saturday night special .25 and a bat, at least I know the bat will work. Why do you think that gun cost you $35?

And because I mistook my .38 frame with my .357 frame, now I never owned one? Wow. Sorry buddy, but your issues are not mine. I'm done with you.

[kristop64089]

Before this thread gets closed I wanted to thank EVERYONE for their suggestions. I should recieve it in the next week or two, when I get it I will give ya'll a range report!

And remember rimrod If you ever decide to liquidate, look me up:)

[kcshooter]

Kristop, sorry this thread went so far from your original plan for it. I am glad you found what you wanted and from what I've read it will be a good shooter and you will definitely get your money's worth out of it. Like I said on page one, just wanted to help those interested in protecting themselves be able to do so. Tell me how it works out! I might see you at Parma sometime, and if you ever want to shoot indoors, I'm a member at the Bullet Hole and Crossfire, be happy to shoot with you sometime.

[kristop64089]

Crossfire is in claycomo, or is that in INDEPMO

[kcshooter]

Independence, almost to Blue Springs, right down the street from Lake City.

[kristop64089]

In the back of Arms mart?

[kcshooter]

Yep, that's them.

[kristop64089]

:o Thats where I go to dream

[kcshooter]

Yeah, great selection, great guys, Stu the gunsmith is just impressive. The range is great too, I've even shot fully autos up there, and they don't even blink. (I have a friend who is a cop, I know fully autos are illegal in MO.)

[kristop64089]

Yeah we used to go there with my buddies tec9 (only shop that would let us shoot) and one day it went full auto on us and they didn't even flinch, but we [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]:)

[kcshooter]

I had a friend with a tec-9 too, can't imagine fully auto would have been that bad with his, since it never fed more than 3 rounds before it jammed!

[kristop64089]

His ate the whole magazine except one. COOL looking POS