.380 Opinions, please.

[Flyfisher]

I have a Walther PPK and have had some stovepiping and FTF issues, particularly with JHP ammo. I also have shorter fingers than most men and I'm beginning to develop some arthritis in my hand and fingers. I've decided to trade/sell the PPK as it seems to kick harder than even my SW 642 and pick up a different .380. I've read really good things about CZ, Beretta, Sig and Bersa, but have not shot them and am unable to rent any nearby to try them out. I value your opinions and would like your thoughts on what .380 models I should focus on. Maybe the .380 is not for me?

[shooter1]

flyfisher,

Only you know what you want, but if you are going to go with one of the pistols you listed, you might want to go to a 9mm. About the same size and cheaper to shoot than the .380.
str1

[kristop64089]

I have both a kel-tec p-11 and Bersa .380, the felt recoil is pretty tame in the Bersa, They make a MINI-9mm that I have only handled, but seems to be a decent gun also

[joe1347]

I have a Walther PPK and have had some stovepiping and FTF issues, particularly with JHP ammo. I also have shorter fingers than most men and I'm beginning to develop some arthritis in my hand and fingers. I've decided to trade/sell the PPK as it seems to kick harder than even my SW 642 and pick up a different .380. I've read really good things about CZ, Beretta, Sig and Bersa, but have not shot them and am unable to rent any nearby to try them out. I value your opinions and would like your thoughts on what .380 models I should focus on. Maybe the .380 is not for me?


Are you looking for more of a fairly small carry center fire gun - or for what many would call a range gun (i.e., something primarily to shoot as opposed to carrying)? The Bersa (Firestorm) 380 is surprisingly small and actually comes pretty close to pocket carry while still being 'shootable' - unlike a Kel-Tec P3AT 380 which is something that you just want to keep in you pocket and only shoot occasionally. If you're not planning on carrying, then as others have suggested. A 9mm is both much cheaper to shoot and the some find the recoil of a 9mm milder than a 380 - assuming that you are shooting a larger frame 9mm.

[45reloader]

For a range gun the CZ 75 B full size gun(stainless steel would be my pick)
For CC weapon Bersa 380 ,it's "the gun" when it comes to the 380 caliber.

[NCHornet]

Hands down the Sig P232 is one of the finest .380's ever made. I have the SL model that has factory night sights and Hogue rubber grips. I was going to sell it when I bought my NAA Guardian but my daughter loves it, so it will be her first CC gun when she gets her permit. I highly recommend trying the P232, very little felt recoil, and very, very accurate.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/NCHornet/2-20-07005.jpg

[Playboypenguin]

If you are hard core about sticking to the .380 platform (which I can understand since I love that round) I would suggest either the Beretta (it looks great, shoots better, and has a high capacity) or the NAA Guardian (it is small, shoots great and looks good).

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/PlayboyPenguin/Handgun%20collection/Beretta84FS.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/PlayboyPenguin/Handgun%20collection/NAAGuardian.jpg

[JR47]

Your arthritis may make you exceptionally recoil-sensitive. The small 9mm may soon be more than you'll reliably practice with.

The Beretta Model 84, while more of a belt gun than a pocket-pistol is an exceptional value. The Sig P232 is also a reliable and accurate firearm. The Sig is a little bit smaller.

I own a Colt Government Model .380. It's a locked-breech handgun of good quality. The recoil is extremely soft, and the weapon feeds just about anything that I''ve found. The sole exception was some reloads that were too long.

The Government Model .380 is small, flat, and easy to shoot. There is another Colt, the Mustang, that is a smaller version of the Government Model .380. It can also be found with an aluminum frame. They have been discontinued by Colt, but are found in conditions ranging from very good to NIB in the $350-500 range.

Something to consider. Parts are still available at reasonable prices, as well.:)

[Gunz]

Maybe the 380 really IS not for you.

I completely agree the 380 is more snappy than I ever liked, for a caliber that size. Both my PPK and 230 are snappier and louder than I ever thought a 380 would be. Even my Colt Gvt 380 and Mustang are snappy. The Beretta 84 is nice, but also is bulky. All of my 380s sit in the safe ever since I discovered other options in 9mm and 40 like the Kahrs and the baby Glocks.

With arthritis, a good Smith or Ruger steel frame for 38 Special and large rubbery, cushy grips like Pachmayr and Hogue which cover the BACKSTRAP could be an option. I find my 38 Specials in 158gr are pretty mild and excellent for accuracy. I actually like my 38 SPecials than those snubby 357s. Forget the lightweight Scandium and alloy jobs for recoil absorption. They feel like someone is whacking my hand with a cricket bat.

[michael t]

The Bersa 380 is slighty larger than my PPK/S It has a lot better trigger and the back strap is eaisler on hand than PPK I can do abut 50 rounds with PPK and I want to stop. Bersa I have fired over 200 rounds. Also Take down much better than pulling the trigger guard. Has a slide release on side.
Their is a New 15 shot hicap on way at present again a Tad wider in back strap. I have handled one and play but couldn't shoot it.
Of course their the CC version that is smaller and lighter than both. Made for pocket carry.

come to http://bersatalk.com Now over 1500 members ang growing We will help and answer all your questions

[Pilot]

I prefer the Beretta 85FS, single stack .380 or a Makarov in either .380 or better yet, 9MM Makarov.

[PSP]

The Beretta 84 or 85 is the easiest shooting .380s I own, and that includes a few, among them Sig P232, Bersa, CZ83, Sphinx AT380 and a Targa.

Both the Beretta 84 and the CZ have full sized grips, and that mitigates the recoil a bit. You may like either of these. Both are very reliable, my Beretta in particular has never failed. They aren't cheap, but they they are very well made.

[rellascout]

For the money it is hard to beat the Bersa. To me all 380 autos kicker harder then any 9mm I own due to the blow back design.

I liked my Bersa. Good little gun.

[JR47]

The Colt is a locked-breech design.:)

[rellascout]

Correct which is why it is one of the exceptions but it is still snappier than most 9mm. Used a Colt will be at least 3x the price of the Bersa.

[OldShooter]

I had a Bersa 380, loved it. Passed it on to the girlfriend. Small and concealable. It didn't like Hornaday hollow points so I used ball ammmo.

For another .380 that wasn't fussy about the ammo, the Browning BDA in .380. 13 round mag, beautiful workmanship, good shooter. A little bigger than the Bersa. Manufactured by Berretta. Sold it to buy an over/under shotgun. I wish I could have both.

[Ozzieman]

I agree with many here. A larger 9mm gun will actually shoot milder than your PPK.
The fact that a PPK is very slim makes it very easy to hide but also give a large amount of felt recoil.
The gun I would push you toward is a Glock 26 (9mm). It fits both my (large) and my wife’s (very small) and the over all size is not that much bigger than a ppk but is is quite wider being a double stack mag.
Try one with the mag extensions which give a place for the little finger.
I hated Glocks for a long time until I got married and bought my wife her first gun along with her CCW permit.
And what did SHE choose, a *$#@** Glock!
Since shooting hers, I got rid of the PPK that I had and got a 26, we both carry one.
I have a safe full of guns and the one I always take along with me is the 26.

[hj28rules]

I have a CZ83 .380. I replaced the plastic hand grips with factory walnut. It improved the feel and the 'felt recoil' dramatically. It is a fine, accurate, reliable weapon.

[Ivory Grips]

I've always liked the looks of the PPK, but I never could afford to by one. As the years rolled by, I figured, like many things that I want but don't need, I could just live without. One day while browsing around in a second hand store, I came upon a used Bersa .380. Asking price was well below $200. It had the looks of the PPK. I was lucky, because the store owner let me by the Bersa on layaway. I've still got the little Bersa. Has a real nice trigger. So far no failures of any kind. I buy regular jacketed round nose ammo. It's my favorite concealment gun, so easy to carry. I love this lil gun.

[Michigunner]

Flyfisher,

I have small hands and am very sensitive to recoil from a small handgun because of a little arthritis.

I would bow down with pain shooting the Kel-Tec P3AT and my Rohrbaugh R9S.

The problem was instantly cured by putting abrasive tape on the grip, both front and back. It stopped the gun from twisting and turning in my hand. It is very common to find the tape on a Rohrbaugh pistol.

Although I just bought a Seecamp 380, I also think 9mm has a lot to offer, and is sometimes only a little larger than a 380.

The Sig P239 9mm is not very large, but you would need to install the Sig Short Trigger in order to reach the trigger with small hands. I have the Short Trigger and it works out very nicely. The slide operates without requiring too much force.

The popular S&W 642 .38 Special +P revolver is a fine choice, especially using Gold Dot 135 gr. Short Barrel ammo. You could expect muzzle energy of 222 ft/lbs.

The 642 easily fits in the pockets of Dockers slacks. Sorry, I just noticed that you have the 642.

I also discovered a revolver that pulls up very closely to the body using a belt holster. It is the Ruger SP101 2 1/4 inch .357 Magnum. It feels like it is pasted to your body, but you do need the shirt to be un-tucked.

Bill

[KFDiesel]

I have the Beretta 84 Cheetah. Fits nicely in my relatively small hand and shoot well. very, very reliable in prob 2000 rounds.

[urf]

Owned a Kel-Tec P3AT (F/G) with approx 4,600 rounds thru it without a single mulfunction ( I guess i am one of the lucky ones ). In my opinion this firearm kicks hard do to its size and weight. I feel its not a everyday fun gun to shoot. My hand/wrist/arm areas can only handle approx 50 rounds are so every range visit. The bottom line is that the chioce is yours.

[Flyfisher]

I was called out of town unexpectedly after my post and haven't been able to answer some of the questions or issues you have raised.
First, thanks for your replies. It's good to know that people are willing to share their experiences and thoughts. I hadn't seen posts regarding my issue: short fingers and advancing arthritis.
I would use the .380 for range shooting and, perhaps, occasional carry. Right now, I usually carry my SW 642 in a Milt Sparks pocket holster. Even with my condition, I can usually get off 5 quick ones without too much hand hurt; ditto with target practice.
I am not new to handguns. I have some fairly big caliber guns...SW 629, GP101 and a Kimber CDP II. Increasingly, they are working their way into what will become a grandson's collection in a few years. I want to winnow down my guns to those I can use for self defense and range work, without undue pain. I'm only wedded to the .380 because I've got a fair amount of ammo that I sure would hate to have to give away ;), and I like to shoot the round.
Never got into the 9 mm craze. I suspect that I might be headed that way right now. With these suggestions, I'm sure an answer will emerge! Thanks, again...and I certainly wouldn't mind having more opinions on the topic.

[ZBoater]

I've owned and shot the Walther PPK/S, the Bersa Thunder 380, the Bersa 380 Concealed Carry, the Sig P232 and NAA Guardian. Of all these, the most accurate and least snappy of all is the Sig, by FAR. The Bersa comes in a close second.

That Sig with the Hogue rubber grips is a JOY to shoot at the range, and is very, very, very easy to carry and conceal.

[SpecialCombat]

Try a Colt Mustang or GM .380...........they rock the boat!!!!:)

[obiwan1]

My PPK used to stovepipe like crazy. That's how I got into reloading. Hot loads are needed to get reliable ejection. Try Cor Bons. They're my load of choice when carrying this gun. You can also try getting a weaker recoil spring. By the way, the PPK needs its lube. A light coat of Tetra grease or Militec grease (or a good dry lube) on the slide rails keeps it moving as easy as possible. I don't like oil on the slide rail because they drain (in your pocket) or evaporate. Grease just sits there nicely.

As far as the .380 goes, I carried it as my main gun for 20+ years (again - with hot loads) and thankfully never had to use it for real. It's marginal, but much better than nothing. I generally carry a H&K P2000 now unless I need to be really low profile. :cool:

[Agios]

My Browning FN HP 9mm has always appeared to have less recoil to me than most 9s. If you're adamant about the 380 then forego any pistols with the blowback design and try out the variety of 380's that are lock breech. Also have you considered Hi Standard's 22 magnum auto loader?

[Playboypenguin]

Here are links to a couple range reports I did on two different .380 pistols lately.

One if the NAA Guardian and the other trhe Seecamp LWS.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246823

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246774

[JR47]

If you're really interested in a .380 for range work, the Beretta 80 series .380s are really nice weapons. They are belt-holster size, though. Taurus manufactured the PT58 series, which closely resembles them, and Browning had the BDA series, which are Browning badged Berettas. Taurus is currently set to release an updated version of the PT58, which will have even more magazine capacity. All of these are softer recoiling due to size, but aren't full-size weapons.

For range work, I'd move up to one of them. They won't cause as much pain, so soon.

If you find the .38 too punishing in your J-frame, look into using 110 grain loads in standard pressure. or the old 125 gr. JHP non+P loads.:)

[shurshot]

I would work on that PPK before I ditched it. The PPK is a good quality weapon. A good cleaning, oil and some hot loads like the previous poster mentioned should cure your FFT and stovepipes. Also, ensure that you are holding it w/a firm grip, not a death grip, but like you are swinging a hammer... FIRM. Semi-auto's (most of them anyhow) will jam if there is a loose grip or weak hand holding them, as the recoil moves the gun around in the hand, instead of 100% of the energy going into the ejection/reload cycle..
Clean it, oil it and try it some more. The feed ramp might benifit from a bit of buffing/polishing as well, if hollowpoints are your problem. Or, perhaps the clip is bad or in need of a new spring. If you don't like the PPK, then by all means trade it. But I hate to see you get a new gun and develop the same issues all over again if it is one of these simple problems to fix.