Advise on AK-47

[rgates]

I knew very, very little about AK-47's untill I became interested enough to start researching on the internet and on this forum. It appears that the Russian and Chinese makes are supposedly better. Only thing I find locally is Romanian which is so-so? Some have told me they very reliable and hardly ever break down no matter where they are made. Is this correct and any other suggestions?

What about caliber between the 7.62 or 5.49. Which has more selection and availability.
Any pros or cons about either?

Appreciate any and all advise.

[HorseSoldier]

Chinese AKs are going to cost you a pretty penny -- they're pretty much collectibles since the ban on their import, and you're paying for the name/country of origin as much as quality at this point.

[FS2K]

You're right Gates, the Romy's are so-so. It's more an issue of sloppy assembly than inferior parts or materials. If considering a Romanian AK, check for front sight post and gas block alignment. You should do this when looking at any AK, but more so with the Romy's. Here's a good informative link:

http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/whyromanian.htm

There are slight differences between the AK's from the different countries that manefactured them, but all in all AK's are super tough rifles that can take a beating and keep shooting. I like the 7.62mm X 39mm round for it's larger size. But opinions vary. Allot of people like the 5.45mm X 39.5mm found in the AK74's. Both calibers are as obtainable as the other. Most of the reasonably priced ammo for AK's are military surplus type ammo, but there are large manefacturers that produce both rounds, though for a higher price. (Brass cased). You can see the difference between the two rounds and read up more on them here:

http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/ammo.htm

[kymasabe]

You may want to look into AK's may by Arsenal Inc. in Nevada, Krebs Customs, or even Armory USA in Houston. I own the Armory USA SSR-85C2 and it's been a great rifle, excellent fit and finish, super reliable, thicker 1.6mm Bulgarian receiver.

[punkkin]

My WASR10 GP has been a pretty amazing weapon. I've shot thousands and thousands of trouble free rounds and I think I cleaned it once...

[outlaw6]

I have a Romanian AK and it is certainly no thing of beauty and has a crappy trigger but it's an AK and goes bang EVERY time. It's accurate enough for what it is. I like it.

[rgates]

Thanks for all the info. Keep it coming. Value all opinions. I stopped at a store today where the guy that was showing me one used one for 4 years while in the military. Was able to show me a lot. This was the first one I ever held and I have to admit it felt pretty loose and sloppy. I must have had a look on my face like; does this actually work? He and another customer who owned two both laughed and said that was normal but they are one tough gun. If this is simply the com. block manufacturers focusing more on simplistic dependable function rather than appearance like my first pistol (Makarov), I can admire that.

[Csspecs]

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/listview.asp?CatId=2

This site sells a few makes and models of AK, their prices are about right so you should try to get close to what their price is at least.

[cuate]

Then there are the Russki Saiga 7.52X39 that has a longer barrel and a civilian style stock but its fairly easy to make it look like an AK if you want that look. I have never fired one but I have to assume that its accuracy beats
AKs. And if you don't change the stock are are seen by the pelosi/clinton crowd, their panties won't get so wadded up. But then who really cares?

[Mosin44az]

My WASR-10 Romanian was the worst firearm I ever purchased. Would not feed reliably (nice touch for an AK), and developed trigger slap after only a couple of range sessions. Plus the fit and finish were awful. I know others are happy, but I vote no. For the love of God no.

Yugos seem to be only about $100 more, and have a better rep. That's as low as I would go. J & G Sales (Shotgun News or jgsales.com) is advertising them for $429 new and up.

Arsenal, Inc. and Krebs are the highest quality from what I can tell, for what is available new. Arsenal (now based in Nevada, affiliated with Arsenal of Bulgaria, they advertise regularly in Shotgun News) is expensive at @$600 minimum the last time I checked, Krebs far more than that but has lots of features. Russian (Polytech)superior rep but very expensive.

Vector Arms advertises in Shotgun News and apparently offers a written warranty which is a plus. Don't know what happened to VEPR, the Russian brand which was supposed to be good.

There is or was another "Arsenal" brand, Arsenal USA, don't know if they are any good, they seem like they're trying to pass themselves off as the real thing. Make sure you get an Arsenal, Inc., with the Bulgarian connection.

My Arsenal SLR 101SB has worked perfectly and is obviously far higher quality than the old WASR.

[fixboot]

An AK is a AK is a AK. They all go bang damn near every time. If you want a beauty queen, spend more money on a russian or american AK. I you want something that will make tens of thousands of trouble free holes in targets, without putting huge holes in you wallet, get the romainian or the yugo. Either way you WILL be happy!

[SR420]

I was lucky to find a pair of ChiCom MAK90s.
They are very well made with chrome lined barrels and the triggers are excellent.
If you find one - buy it.

[dolanp]

If you get a Romanian with a bad trigger you can swap out the FCG with a Tapco G2 one and those are nice.

I have a Russian Saiga converted to AK103 but that costs quite a bit more. :)

[AK103K]

I have AK's from one end of the spectrum to the other. If I had to pick just one, it would be a Saiga conversion from Krebs or AK-USA. My 14" barreled Krebs gun, with good ammo, will out shoot any other AK I own or have shot, and will give most AR's a run for the money.

They all pretty much work, and most all will shoot better than you will hear on the internet, even the lowly SAR's and WASR's.

The biggest problem with them are the cheap US made replacement trigger group parts. Some have slap, some dont, some develop it later on. Some parts will just take a dump. This isnt just limited to the "cheaper" rifles either, my Arsenal SSR85C's disconnector broke within a few hundred rounds.

Do yourself a favor, if your feel the need to "add on", save your money and buy the quality stuff. You will only need to buy it once and it will perform like you want it too. Some of the other stuff looks cool I'll admit, but then again, so does airsoft, and a lot of the aftermarket stuff is about the same quality.

Dont get the longer stocks, trust me here, once you get used to the standard length you'll understand. If you want a folder, get the wire type Romanian or German stocks, They work well, are the correct length, allow access to the controls, and are rock solid, open or closed. If you really like the looks of the under folders, try to find one to shoot first, especially one thats been used awhile.

After playing with a bunch of different things over the years and just playing with the AK's in general, the only things I'll put on mine are, a good Russian issue sling, a Ultimak upper handguard rail, and an Aimpoint M series red dot. The red dot brings the AK right along into the 21st century with the AR's.

You dont need buffers, extended mag releases, mags or selector levers that hold the bolt open. Spend the money you save and buy more ammo. If you take the time to learn and practice with them, you'll see that the usual complaints never surface, or quickly go away.

[FS2K]

Good job!

[cheygriz]

I have two Norincos, and I wouldn't trade either one of them for any AK available.

If I were buying one today, it would be the Arsenal USA brand.

I also have a Century Arms SAR-2 AK-74. I can't find anything good to say about it except that it's fairly reliable. As soon as I can sell it, I'm planning on gerting an Arsenal USA AK-74. IMHO, the 5.45X39 cartridge is head and shoulders above the old 7.62X39 in performance and accuracy.

[TJHell]

Get an AR

[AK103K]

AR's can suck too. Either way, its usually not the guns fault. ;)

[rgates]

Thanks to you all for the great info, advise and even web links for some really good info. I'll keep watching for anything new. Going Saturday to a store in a neighboring state that has a lot of AK's of different makes and of course , prices. Thanks again for all the help.

[cheygriz]

Be careful. One of them might follow you home!:D

[rgates]

I plan on it.

[AK103K]

Problem is, AK's are like SIG's, they multiply like bunnies. :D

[rgates]

Well, I did it now. I got one. Wasr-10 in 7.62. Of the few Wasr's I had already seen I wasn't really planning on getting this brand but this one seemed to be of better finish and much tighter than a few other Wasr's I've looked at. Even the metal finish is a liitle better. Maybe they had one good day or the boss was over their shoulder. Of course the wood is not finished. Just shaped and fitted better. It does have some nice grain. I think I could sand and linseed oil it and it might actually look good. It came w/ 2-30 rd. mags, mag pouch, sling, some kind of small round metal can (for oil ?) and to my surprise after I got it home I found a bayonette in the box. $339.00. The more I look at it, the more I like it. I think even my wife is impressed. Now for the cleaning. Looks like this will take a while. Still some cosmoline in it. Any suggestions on the best thing to get this guck out with. Can't wait to shoot this thing, but first a good cleaning and prob. dress up the mag well a little. Mags fit so tight they don't want to let go. Thanks to one of the links you provided I found good info on this procedure. It's pouring rain here all weekend anyway. Thanks again for all the help with my new addiction.

[AK103K]

One little thing I've found with the mag releases on just about all of them is, its a stamping that has sharp edges left over form the stamping. These sharp edges tend to grab and hold onto the tail on the mag, making the release hard. If you take a jewelers file and just "break" the edges that contact the mag, it makes the release work much easier and smoother. You dont have to take much of, just hit it lightly and give it a little bevel.

This also helps sometimes on the safety too. If it seems real hard to snick it off, there is a little depression that the tit on the safety sets in when its "on". Sometimes there is a sharp edge there that tends to hold onto the tit. If you lightly hit both, it also makes it a good bit easier and smoother to work.

[5thShock]

Make sure to get all the gunk out of the firing pin channel in the bolt, maybe some auto brake cleaner here. Shake the bolt, you want to hear the firing pin rattling back and forth, free and unfettered for you semi-auto shooting pleasure.

[Gewehr98]

Having an AK in one's gun safe is a sure-fire way for them to propogate.

I started with one Bulgarian SLR-95 (The Cadillac of milled-receiver AK variants)

http://mauser98.com/slr95benchirc.jpg

Then a fellow GI needed some cash, and offered me a Romanian SAR-1 for a price I couldn't refuse. Not as nice as the SLR-95, but still quite functional, I put some nice wood on it, a G2 trigger group, a slant brake, a Buffer Tech buffer (I'm not made of money), and it's now my favorite bedside house gun:

http://mauser98.com/sar1walnut.jpg

I can't wait to see what my next AK will look like! :D

[rgates]

AK103K

You mentioned quality replacement parts. How do I know what brand or supplier to go to? I've read about the trigger slap problem and may just plan on replacing the FCG. Suggestions on where to look?

[AK103K]

Red Star Arms has one of the best. Its a little pricey, but it is fully adjustable and can be set up any way you like.

http://www.redstararms.com/

I had to put a new trigger group in my SAR. I tried the file remedy, but it didnt work. The RSA did. They claimed it was "drop in", but it wasnt just quite. (this was a number of years ago) I've heard they have improved them, and if you have questions, the owner will get right back to you and is real good about support. At least he was with me.

Tapco also offers a trigger group, the G2 I believe. I've never used one, but I've seen others post they have had good results. I think its about half the price of the RSA.

Check out the AK forums. There is lots of good, and often entertaining info over there. :)

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/index.php?

[rgates]

Thanks again. I'll be starting work and clean up today.

[cheygriz]

Ahhhhhh..... an evil black rifle!!!:eek:

Now that you have been seduced by the dark side, forever will it control your destiny!:D

[rgates]

Well, six hours later. That was fun. The mags were almost impossible to remove so I expected to have to dremmel out the mag well. Found the job had already been done and to my surprise, quite well. Problem was the release itself. Had a sharp edge where it meets the mag lip. Used emry wheel to flatten sharp edge and works great. Also checked out the trigger group which I expected to have to grind on or replace and discovered it already has a Tapco trigger group in it. Got all the metal shavings and cosmo out, spotless clean, oiled er back up, reassembled and --- great , now it's dark.
Maybe tomorrow if I get home from work before dark.

[rgates]

http://cherrytreemall.com/RicksAK.JPG

[fixboot]

Nice! Now you get to go thru the hell of buying ammo for it!:eek:

[rgates]

Yeah, been there-done that. I also have a 9x18 Makarov. 7.62 ammo for this seems to be a little easier to get but I'm used to hunting for it. At worst The place where I bought it keeps a pretty good supply at about 45 mile drive but will prob. buy over internet like most of my Mak ammo.

[rgates]

Finally got to fire it. Man, that was goooood. Gotta have more...ammo.
I'm hooked. This thing is a blast to shoot. I definitely prefer the 7.62. Not bad recoil at all but just enough to know your definitely throwing some lead as opposed to .223. Thanks again to all for the advise and help.

[Double J]

I started out with the MAK 90. Bought a few of those when they had that worthless hole in the stock. Then various East German , Romanian,Russian. I'm surrounded with them. Have one in particular that shot inch groups out of the box, and it happens to be a cheap Romanian. Most average 3-4" groups. Compared to the FN brand, M-16A2 which says they consider 4 MOA acceptable, the AK holds its own. Cheap, ugly, dependable. Once you've used one you'll learn to like it. They'll grow on you.

[fsmitka]

TJHell: Ak's may suck, but they are cheap and they work all the time, AR's work MOST of the time but they are WAY overpriced. I'll take the AK.

[KMBRTAC45]

Quote by: Gewehr98
Having an AK in one's gun safe is a sure-fire way for them to propogate.

I also got bit by the AK bug. I started with an WASR-10, which has been flawless thru about 4000 rounds. Then I picked up a very lightly used pre-ban Norinco AK-47. I've only put a couple of mags thru it, but it worked very well. Then I got the dreaded Chinese 75 round drum:eek: , now, I can't keep enough ammo in the can:D .

[flip180]

"AKs suck
Get an AR"

I had a Sar-1 and currently own a Stag AR. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. If I was on a budget, I'd have zero problems with getting another AK. That said, a Yugo will do just fine. you can find one here http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Yugoslavian_AK_M70AB2_7.62x39_Under-Folder_Rifle.html.

Flip.

[Greg Bell]

I have a nice AR and a nice AK. If it was my butt on the line, AK.:)http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/iWeb/The%20LAMP/P2000%20Library_files/P1010002_2.jpg

http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/iWeb/The%20LAMP/P2000%20Library_files/P1010014_2.jpg

[rgates]

Ok, having a little problem. First time I fired it, (only about 30 rounds) two or three times the bolt did not appear to go all the way shut. Actually the bolt itself appears to be locked but the carrier with the handle liked about a half inch being all the way forward. Once it pushed by hand to close. The other two times recycled by hand and it closed. Getting dark I cleaned it and put away. Next day, about the 7th round bolt locked up tight as a bank vault door. When the round fired it appears the carrier moved backwards about a inch. Bolt still locked to breech with spent casing in chamber. Nothing would budge. Could not free it up till I field stripped and used a flat bladed screwdriver through mag well to to turn the bolt slightly. Then the carrier would move back and forth about 3/4 inch but bolt still tight to breech.
Stood it on the floor muzzle up and dropped a cleaning rod down the barrell.
Everything fell out. Checked everything over, cleaned (especially the chamber) and tried again. Third round, same thing. Once freed up again tried again. Same prob. on seventh round. Called the store owner where purchased. Said he has seen some that the chambers didn't get polished enough. Suggested wrapping steel wool around cleaning brush in a drill. If that does not fix it, bring it back and he will take care of it. Did this for a long time. Looked shinier. Took forever to get all the steel wool fibers out and cleaned up again but got it spotless and oiled back up. Took it back out today. Chambered first round, bolt carrier liked about a 1/2 inch closing all the way. Cycled it to eject and feed and it closed. Worked well till the 13th round. Same problem. I have checked bolt, lugs and chamber for burrs. None visible. Gas piston seems free, not binding or obstructed. I'm leaving it in locked up, jammed condition with spent casing in chamber to take back to the store. Using Wolf 124 gr JHP. Both black box and military classic. Do not appear to be coated. I have read that AK's eat Wolf like candy. I'll be taking it back prob. Saturday afternoon. Somehow I will get this fixed because I love shooting this thing. Just gotta get this glitch resolved. Any of you had similar problem and discover the cause?

[physics]

My WASR-10 has trigger slap, and that hurts like crazy. Put 30 rounds downrange, and your trigger finger is tingling and red from getting slapped around so much. Need to get that fixed...

[dolanp]

Yeah putting a good trigger in there makes a world of difference. The G2 I have in my Saiga is nice and smooth. I actually hadn't experienced trigger slap until I fired a friend's Yugo and then I was like "Whoa that hurts". :)