M1 Garand from CMP

[Abndoc]

My Cmp Garand arrived at my doorstep yesterday. I ordered a rifle and it came straight to my house. The old days must have been great.

Anyway, my original intention was to completely restore it to as near new condition as I could as a winter project, but when I opened the box and held it in my hands, as corny as it sounds, I felt a change come over me. I looked up the serial number and if I'm reading it right, it was made in 1943. I began to wonder about the history and story that could be attached to this rifle.

Was it there at Monte Casino, Bastogne or maybe Kasserine Pass? Did it cross the Siegfried Line and the Rhine river on its way to Berlin? Was it the faithful companion of some dogface who would really rather be home with his family, but is doing what needs to be done instead?

My original question was whether to restore it or not, but I think I just answered that myself.

[mdshooter]

Won't do a thing to mine except keep it clean and lubed.

I'm a big boy, but I know exactly how you felt... because I've felt the exact same thing. Mine was built in April '44... three months before D-Day. If it could only talk.

I owe a lot to the man who first cradled this rifle in his hands... wish I could tell him thanks.

Best I can do is maintain his rifle in the exact condition it was in when he was through using it... that, and say a prayer of thanks for him, and all the others who did their duty and saved the world.

[p99guy]

Only thing I did to mine was put a Boyt's walnut stock on it, and wrapped/saved the original wood...Mine had "woodpecker" marks on the right side from the G.I. using the stock to seat the 8 cartriges(via impact) in the clip before loading them(it leaves pockmarks from the tips of the bullets)...a practiced frowned upon in bootcamp/training but was not uncommon in the ugency of combat....and as mine had a replacement barrel, it has been shot
quite a bit(10,000 rounds are what they are normally good for in service before replacement and a guage can tell you Approx how many has been shot though your barrel) or the barrel was damaged. I would love to know where mine had been...it was in europe we do know that , as it was Handed over to Denmark after the war, and those guns were in theater that was loaned to them....I wish U.S. weapons had soldier tags under buttplates like Swiss K31's have. mine is a 1943 Springfield Armory produced weapon.

[Dave P]

Yeah, generally I keep them as-is. Maybe clean the stock with a touch of mineral spirits and light steel wool.

Especially if this is your first - leave it be!

Dave

[hdawson228]

Abndoc and all. Not corny at all. I feel the same way. It's an item of history. I can't imagine taking out any dents or gouges. I can only imagine the possible history of mine. :cool:

[shield20]

And DON'T throw out any packing or paperwork! Save everything!

[support_six]

...and I disagree about keeping it the same as I got it. There is no evidence that the rifle you have, including the barrel, stock, trigger group, etc. was a complete package during some battle. It has most likely been rearsenaled once or twice since then. In fact, in the CMP inspection process that grades and makes sure the rifle is safe to send out, often exchanges parts that are worn or broken with parts that work.

I have several CMP rifles right now. One has an original cartouched stock from 1944 and one has a DAS stamped replacement stock from post war. The stocks were walnut but dented and dirty. I lifted the dents with steam and cleaned them by putting them in my dishwasher, stripping all the old finish, dirt, oil, etc. off and started with clean wood for a good stain and Tung Oil finish. Another rifle I had reparkerized and restocked with a black/gray laminated stock to set off the gray parkerizing.

Point being, the rifle receiver probably saw a few battles, maybe some of the other parts also, but the chance that the majority of parts you have clinging to that receiver are original or saw the same service, is small. ...but pretend if you want to, nobody will actually know the difference.

[mdshooter]

No disrespect support_six, but I never said... or at least didn't mean to imply... that I knew my rifle arrived in my hands just as it left the hands of some WWII "hero." OK... maybe my post did imply that, but I'm not so foolish as to think that's the case.

My CMP Garand came to me as a very servicable "Service Grade" rifle... much as it might have been issued to the second (or third, or whatever) soldier who held it. It was as it might have been given to any U.S. troop heading into harm's way. That's good enough for me. The rifle itself - in its factory fresh form - may very well have been issued to a GI destined for the beaches of Normandy. Or it may not have. Doesn't matter.

It's a rifle in good enough condition for Uncle Sam to give to a front line combat troop. Why would I want to make it "better"? Or to remove any marks or grime it received while being dragged up the boot of Italy... or during drill by some ROTC cadet in Muncie Indiana?

I own a piece of history. I can clean it up, but I can't make it any better. I prefer not to muck with it.

Just MHO, of course.

edited to add: oh... and I didn't make any attempt to remove the "beaver chew marks" from my K-31 either. Sure it looks grungy, but it still drives tacks and looks just as it did when the last Swiss soldier carried it to drill. Why try and pretend I bought it "new"? Real history is much more meaningful.

[hdawson228]

My M1 is a May 1945 production. Probably didn't see any WWII action. But a very good chance it did in Korea. Maybe even the early days of Vietnam when I was there. I have such respect and admiration for our troops in the past and present who may have carried my M1. Actually, mine is a Springfield and all the parts I've identified are in fact SA except for a new barrel and gas cylinder. And I do mean NEW. It will be alot of fun to shoot. :)

[M14fan]

Mine came arsenal refinished but numbers matching with new (no cartouche) birch stock (blonde). 100% Winchester. I haven't fired it yet but have definite plans to do so.

I do understand your sentiments when holding a piece of history in your hands. If it is servicable as is, I would probably keep it that way also.

My other Garand (a T-26 replica that never saw combat in that configuration but probably did in its original configuration as the receiver has a low serial number that I am told dated it around 1941 but I am not sure how to tell) had to be shimmed as the trigger group began to unlock under recoil. The wood has aparantly shrunk and there was insufficient clamping force to keep it locked. I tried to think how a GI in the field might have remedied this situation and ended up cutting 2 very thin strips of leather and placing them between the trigger group and the wood. Problem solved and the repair is (I think) at least period appropriate and field expedient.

[mdshooter]

Something to keep in mind. In field repair stations rifles were stripped and parts were sorted by kind... not by manufacturer or date. After cleaning, rifles were reassembled without regard to source or date of parts.

My father or uncle might very well have gone into battle with a mixmaster... a mixmaster that worked.

My Garand works... beautifully, I might add. Who knows? I never will.

Good enough for GI Joe is plenty good enough for me.

[p99guy]

The U.S. Army was not in the business of gun collecting, or caring about what headaches it gave a civilian collector 70 years in the future. A functioning M1 was the only thing they cared about. There are several different schools of thought for collectors both hardcore and casual

1 AS it left the factory condition...this is where you take a "mixmaster" and search high and low for parts with codes/variations that it "should" of had as it was built.
Unfortunatley records were sometimes sketchy, and old parts were used till gone, even after a new part was introduced, and if one maker had a surplus of a certain part , and another a shortage...parts was sent to the shortage factory(so you may have SA parts on a Winchester M1, right off the bat.
The part you remove because it isnt "correct", you may be taking off a part that really was original to that gun..there is no 100% way to be sure. If you "restore" a rifle- what you end up with is a best guess replica of what it left the factory with...and is still not "original" because the parts you put on darn sure wasnt on that rifle to start with(even if ones just like them were).


2. As used/as Issued...a M1 or any other firearm in the Army was mostly a mixmaster the very first time it was uncrated in theater, broken down by the depot and each subassembly was thrown in a cleaning solution to get the shipping preservitive out along with the same parts from several dozens of other
rifles, and were put back together with no reguard with which part went to what rifle. Hense the need for all parts to be completely interchangeable.
Plus with wear and repair, and revised parts being introduced....each trip to
repair,and every time they were turned in...more parts could/was have been changed out.(few M1's ever escaped this system, stolen guns excaped this process at the point in time they grew legs , btw)
Guns that were loaned to other countries like England, may also be left in more the orignal config if nothing else simpley because they didnt get the revised parts while not being in U.S. mil supply chain. Denmark M1's may be G.I. with
Danish FKF or Beretta replacement parts if they ever needed any, or M1's made entirely by Beretta post war. But every part on the rifle you have is part of that rifles journey though time...in some eyes that is the most "correct" (everything done to it by military revisions, and by military personel over decades has more to do with that rifle than the two weeks it was at the factory being born) To the Army they were M1's, no other catagory needed.

So that is however oversimplified so as to not write a novel here....that is the two
basic schools of thought by todays shooter receiving a G.I. workhorse direct from a Govt arsenal to thier doorstep.

[support_six]

mdshooter, no problem. We just look at the same thing slightly askew, but that's why they don't make only one color of car, right?

I like to clean mine up, refinish the stock, preserving any cartouches, and make it look as good as it can for another 50 years. I do see the value in keeping it just as you found it -- coin collectors don't clean them as it lessens their values for the most part.

Everyone should have more than one M1. That would allow for one in the condition some soldier used during the great battles of the last century, and one to clean up, restore, repark, refinish the stock, or restock with a modern stock. All is good.

Regards

[mdshooter]

No problem at all support_six. I find no fault with your approach either. Different strokes, right?

Now, if you were to take a historically correct '03 Springfield and sporterize it we might have words :)

j/k - after all - the fewer originals there are left the more valuable they become as collectibles :D

Seriously... I'm having a deuce of a time finding a nice M1917 in something close to original condition for a reasonable price. So many were turned into deer rifles when they first appeared on the civilian market the ones still in as-issued form command a premium price.

I clean and degrunge my mil-surps to the best of my ability, make sure they're in good operating condition, and head to the range. Maybe some day I'll try my hand at a more extensive stock rehab (such as steaming out dents), but at present, with my limited skills, I'm afraid of doing more harm than good.

[30Cal]

I can't believe I'm the first one to ask where the pictures are!

[mdshooter]

Not the greatest pic... it's a "grab" shot from a couple of years back when I first got the rifle (and before my photo skills and equipment improved). But here she is.

[support_six]

Forget everything I said about refinishing the stock. If I had a stock that good (read: few dents), I'd just clean it also. Handsome rifle!

[mdshooter]

Yeah... I got lucky with mine s_s. I bought it back when participating in competition was a requirement for buying from Uncle Sam, and I didn't qualify. So I got mine "second hand" from the original CMP customer, and thus had the chance to see pics of the actual rifle before I plunked down my cash... no CMP "pot luck" here.

Hard to tell with my crappy lighting, but the handguard is pretty heavily oil-soaked. The rest of the rifle, however (wood and metal) is in excellent shape.

Now my K-31 on the other hand... that one's definitely a candidate for a stock rework if I'm ever so inclined (damned beavers!).

[support_six]

mdshooter, even if the handguard were not oil soaked, the chance that the walnut on each of the three pieces, upper and lower handguards and stock, matching is pretty low. Of my 7 walnut stocks, a couple were close but none matched well enough to make you think they came from the same tree. The handguards are obviously thinner than the stock so most soak up through and through, but yours will look good with a little work! Congratulations!

[Eghad]

If you are retired from the US Armed Forces no need to belong to a rifle club anymore :D

[mdshooter]

The handguards are obviously thinner than the stock so most soak up through and through, but yours will look good with a little work!

support_six:

What's your preferred method for removing oil? I've got a garbage can "easy bake oven" I use for cosmo removal... would that be a good place to start? I'm leery of using any possibly caustic chemicals or solvents. Appreciate any advice.

[skeeter1]

Don't do anything to it, other than cleaning it up, keeping it well lubed, and shooting it. What you have in your hands is a part of history. Any dents in the stock could well have come from some doughboy. Nix on any restoration. My two cents.

[support_six]

I'm probably not the best to ask because I go all the way to bare wood. I use my automatic Whirlpool finish and oil stripper located in my kitchen. IOW, the dishwasher method. It strips all the old oil, cosmo, and finish off.

For your beautiful piece of walnut, I'd just do a wipe down with mineral spirits with a cotton rag first, followed by a green pad or 0000 steel wool (but very gently so as not to lift the finish.)

There are many on the battlerifles forum and the CMP forum who can better advise you but it would be something close to what I said above.

Good luck!

[mdshooter]

Thanks s_s... that's what I figured I'd try. I'm aware of the dishwasher method, but it's a mite too "drastic" for me :)

I may try putting the piece in my "cosmotron" to see if lube oil will weep to the surface the way cosmoline does... it did a pretty good job on the grease-soaked stock of my CPM '03. After the grease stopped cooking out I gave it a good wipe down with mineral spirits, then applied a few coats of BLO to replace any natural oils I'd removed... looks right nice, if not pristine.

Do a bit of surfing on battlerifles myself... good info over there. Just figured I'd get another opinion :)

[DanV1317]

I always get surplus rifles or old rifles in general with intentions of making them look good. Once i get them home, i change my mind and end up keeping the history of the rifle unchanged.

I did fix up an SKS that i bought and i felt bad after i sanded and used chemicals on the wood.

[TPAW]

I occasionally wonder if ANY military rifles from CMP were used in combat? Because they were manufactured during the war, does not mean they were used in combat. I could be wrong?.................:confused:
Has anyone out there who has one, ever trace it's history, if that's even possible?.......:confused:
I know of an 80+ year old retired game warden who has an M-1 Grand that was use in the war, he managed to shang-hi it home in peices on a troop ship. It's the only rifle he has, and has hunted with it since his discharge in 1945. He lives in the Maine mountain region.

[hdawson228]

Of course there's no absolute way of knowing a rifle's unique history. However the M1s come from Army depots to CMP that have been in storage a very long time. I think almost six million were produced. Most were issued and used in WWII but an awful lot saw service in Korea and even in the early days of Vietnam. Some were loaned to other countrys, and still remained in storage in many cases. I think this was a program through NATO or the UN after WWII. Then the 7.62 was accepted as the standard NATO round. CMP tears them down all the way and inspect each component for condition and replacement of parts necesary. Then graded, checked for function and fired. CMP stands for Civilian Marksmanship Program, chartered by the US Congress and is a nonprofit corporation. :cool: