Gold Dot ammo... why all the praise?

[Mokumbear]

I recently posted a question about the most popular law enforcement ammo.
I noticed an overwhelming number of posts favoring Speer Gold Dot ammo.

I went and looked at their site. Pretty "plain jane". (The web site and the ammo)
The bullets don't look particularly "scary".

What about them sets them apart from the others?

I also noticed when I searched for reviews on them that there was a recall on them in the early 2000's due to defective primers.
Not exactly a confidence builder.

I have to admit, I am kind of partial to ammo mfg. names I have known since I was a kid. I also read in a gun magazine recently that Federal HydraShok
has a "matured design". I think I read elsewhere here that someone felt the design was "old and tired". (Nonetheless, thats what is in my
Ruger P89 at the moment).

Ideas?

[M1911]

The bullets don't look particularly "scary".Is that how you determine ammo performance? Whether or not they look "scary"?:barf:

[S.Miller]

A bullet's appearance means little. It's their design and build that matters most, and Gold Dots routinely perform well in ammo tests. My first choice is Federal Hydra-Shok in just about any caliber but I'd be content with Gold Dots.

[Majic]

Every bullet is pretty much plain jane in looks, but that have nothing to do with performance. What set's the Gold Dot apart is the core is bonded to the jacket and then the bullet is punched leaving a piece of the jacket down in the hollow point.
Neither Speer nor Gold Dots are new names in the bullet world. Speer has been building bullets as long as Federal and the Gold Dot is just about as old as the Hydra-Shok. Do you remember the famous "Flying Ashtray"? It's a Speer bullet and came out long before the Hydra-Shok.

[S.Miller]

The "Flying Ashtray" was awesome to look at. It was a 200 gr. weight, correct?

It is very important for the bullet's jacket to remain intact. If it does not the entire bullet tends to fragment apart, and that is not preferred at all. We want bullets to maintain their weight and stay in one piece, not to break apart (which hinders penetration). I recall seeing a test between two ammo brands in 9mm. In numerous cases the jackets on the Brand A rounds separated from the lead core, whereas most of the Brand B rounds stayed together. Brand B (and I'm not naming the brands so as not to start a flame war) outperformed Brand A easily simply because their bullet jackets stayed with the core and the bullet maintained weight and did not fragment.

[1911austin]

I went and looked at their site. Pretty "plain jane". (The web site and the ammo)
The bullets don't look particularly "scary".


Try Extreme shock. It looks very "Scary"

http://www.extremeshockusa.com/

[Mokumbear]

That's all I meant.

The xterme truly look "scary", like they would expand well and cause
very traumatic leaking of precious bodily fluids/parts.

Once again, I confess that I am just an advanced novice.
Choosing ammo remains one of my weak spots.

And that is exactly why I am here, to learn,
(And to share what little experience I have).

[Axion]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm
Proof that looking scary isn't all it's cracked up to be. Those extreme schock bullets are not all they claim to be.

[Edward429451]

What is the good old way? So called hi-tech hollowpoints are not impressive to me any more. Buncha hype mostly. I went through some XTP's and some gold dots and neither one was as accurate as a good old fashioned round nose lead bullet in my 45. Reliability and accuracy are paramount. The gunrags can keep their pretty pictures of perfect mushrooms fired under controlled conditions. I'll keep casting my no whiz bang, plain jane cast RN thank you.

I think I'm coming full circle or something.

[ranburr]

Gold Dot is very accurate, reliable in most guns, reliable expander, and has almost zero muzzle flash. The muzzle flash issue is what really seperates it from other high-end loads.

ranburr

[Chris W]

The Gold Dot also has a testing-earned reputation for reliable terminal ballistics (the stuff that happens when it hits its target) after penetrating barriers (like heavy denim [which tends to plug hydrashoks up and prevent them from expanding] or windshield glass or what-have-you).

The jacket of a Gold Dot is really a heavy layer of plating, whereas the traditional JHP (regardless of its appearance) is a copper cup with a bunch of lead stuffed in it. On impact, they can separate, and then the little bits that result from fragmentation can't get into the parts of your target where they can damage actual vital structures.

Gold dots are well-engineered. They might not look scary, but that's not what the engineers set out to do with them.

[CDH]

I've found that my favorite defensive loads shouldn't be scary at all.
Mainly, I don't want them to be scary to feed properly.

But I do want them to expand properly in order to stop an attacker as quickly as possible. So in order for me not to be scared if I have to depend on the ammo to do it's job, I use Gold Dots in all three of my most often carried defensive handguns: .380, 9mm, and .45. ;)

Carter

[2ndamd]

+1 for what everyone else has said about the jacket being bonded to the core. In tests they find that the GDHP, even when fired through barriers (like auto glass) the bullet stays to gether. This is very important in penetration. If the bullet stays together after a barrier then it will penetrate better.

I think that is why so many other companies use Speer Gold Dots as their bullet.....I think Georgia Arms and Buffalo Bore use GDHPs in their self defense ammo. Right?

[shield20]

Gold Dots were modified over the years to keep up with current demands, based mostly on FBI findings and testing. Federal chose to create new designs to enhance their line, instead of revamping the HydraShok, which was a/the top choice 15 yrs ago. Their HST and Tactical Bonded are better choices these days, and usually don't cost as much as the outdated HydraShoks.
Remington offers the Golden Saber AND the Bonded Golden Saber, Winchester SXTs aren't bonded, Hornady TAPs are also great shooting HPs, but their controlled expansion XTP also hasn't been updated lately.

I do find that the GDots and HSTs are a little wide to feed reliably in my CZ Rami mags (bullet edges get stuck in mag release holes) so I use SXTs and TAPs in that particular pistol and don't feel ill-prepared.

[Mark54g]

Just an FYI for you. Federal and Speer/CCI (the makers of the Gold Dot line) are owned by the same company. Speer makes some fine ammo. One of the benefits is how well it expands and how reliable it is. Federal HST is also a top line ammo. I am of the opinion that while the Hydra shok was a great design, for its time, it has been surpassed by greater offerings like Federal's own HST and Speer Gold Dots, maybe even Remington Sabres and PMC Starfires.

The issue is that it is a well recognized name. People know about the hydra shok and ask for it. They would be stupid to not keep making it, as it is "effective" but has some flaws, as most designs do. The center post can catch debris or clothing parts and clog up, making it a non expanding round.

[p99guy]

I too am a longtime user of the Hydroshok (the same designer came up with the PMC Starfire bullet after he sold the rights to Federal for Hydroshok.
I buy golddot these days as well when I can find it.

[Mokumbear]

Shield 20 wrote:

"I do find that the GDots and HSTs are a little wide to feed reliably in my CZ Rami mags (bullet edges get stuck in mag release holes) so I use SXTs and TAPs in that particular pistol and don't feel ill-prepared".

I will agree with another poster that the "scariest" thing that could happen
would be a failure to feed/fire/eject.

Are the Gold Dot's not particularly well suited for smaller guns like the RAMI?

Finally, I see Gold Dots have four different models in 9mm self protection alone!
Would you chose the +P? If not, what and why???

[OBIWAN]

Don't confuse the bullet with actual loaded ammunition

Gold dot bullets are used in both Speer ammo and Winchester T-series ammo

Gold Dots are "next generation" bullets designed to expand AND penetrate reliably over a larger range of velocities.

They have overall good performance in many different weights and loadings

So it is not as simple as saying "do gold dots work well in this barrel length"

In much shorter barrels you MAY want to consider the faster/lighter loadings

[gb_in_ga]

In much shorter barrels you MAY want to consider the faster/lighter loadings
Or, go with the new special purpose "short barrel" Gold Dots, which tend to be heavier, not lighter.

[shield20]

Mokum,

I have not seen this problem in other pistols - but the RAMI is my only sub-compact. (P2000, P99 are fine). Not sure if the mags are just too darn narrow or what. :confused: , but it is NOT a good situation with that ammo in that gun (Otherwise a great piece). I do want to clarify that is the HP part - those edges - that are too wide - not the whole bullet.

Others may hopefully contribute wiih their experience.

I compared the bullet profile to other rounds at the store, and I was confident the SXT and TAP (and FMJ) would be fine. I forget how the Saber compared - but was happy to get the SXT as a well-designed bullet...I like the 155gr TAP 'cause I want a little extra velocity out of that short barrel.

I do choose +p in 9mm - cause I think that caliber needs a bit of help, and +p still handles very well - in my 8000L anyway.

Another good thing about GDHP and HSTs, they can be found very reasonable $$-wise in 50 round boxes, so far no joy on the others.

[Mokumbear]

Is the HK that the Gold Dots performed well in the HK p2000sk?

This is high on my wish list and I am curious if their regular (not
short barrel) ammo is a good choice for them).

[shield20]

Its the full size HK P2000. I do not think you would have any issues in the 2000sk, as the mags are just shorter. Again I would choose the lighter ammo to keep the fps up. You may also like the 9mm in that small a piece, as recoil may be an issue in .40.

[tulsamal]

Gold Dots were modified over the years to keep up with current demands, based mostly on FBI findings and testing.

That's the whole deal to me. After the whole Miami shootout debacle, the FBI decided that they wanted to have deeper penetration. And they wanted that penetration in every possible way. (Like through layers of heavy denim, etc.) They didn't want a bullet that expanded too fast and therefore didn't get deep enough. But they didn't want a non-expanding bullet that went too deep and caused serious overpenetration issues. Speer and Remington have been right there with the FBI and their requirements. They have continued to tweek and tailor their bullets for those tests. And I do personally believe the FBI tests are the best thing we've got going right now.

So, for myself, I regard the Gold Dot and bonded Golden Saber bullets as the peak of the design in self-defense handgun bullets right now. If the caliber I want to carry has a loaded round that meets my requirements ballistically and it is available with GD's or GS's, then that's what I'm going to buy and use.

Gregg

[guntotin_fool]

People seem to like them because when the chips are down and you need to shoot a bad guy, they fall down and go boom. Cops who have seen them in action like the fact that Bad guys get big gaping wounds in them when the cops shoot them.



Ever drive a M5 BMW? does not look scary, just drives like a Corvette (as fast a ZO6) and you put your kids in the back seat. Looks don't mean anything....unless it is Jessica Alba

[Freetacos]

my theory is that it's part clever advertising and part real world results

...for instance would it be as popular if they called it bronze dot?

[CDH]

my theory is that it's part clever advertising and part real world results

The previous poster is correct that the company does work in cooperation with the agencies to continue to develop and tweak the ammunition for "real world" performance.

If you want to see what "clever advertising" is all about, refer above to post #6.


...for instance would it be as popular if they called it bronze dot?

Because the Gold Dot is as effective as it is, it would be just as popular if they called it "Smurf Point 124gr", or "Warm & Cuddly 90gr".

Carter

[JIH]

The bullets don't look particularly "scary".
Well, if it's any consolation, you generally don't get to evaluate their looks when they're coming at you. They kind of all inspire a "oh noes, it's a bullits" kind of reaction.

Try Extreme shock. It looks very "Scary"
I like the names. "Fangface" and "Air Freedom"... I think these guys owe Marvel Comics some money. Fangface looks like one of the worms from Dune. I guess the "Shai Hulud Express" would have been too dorky.

That's right. I'm letting my geek flag fly. These colors never run.

[Freetacos]

CDH's last post made me realize something; the psychological factor in ammo performance. For example, regardless of the effectiveness of a particular brand of ammo, there is a self-fulfilling prophesy component. If someone has the extreme conviction that their ammo is so powerful and effective they will be more likely to practice with that ammo and take more careful shots if they ever were to be engaged in violent conflict.

On the other hand if a person keeps hearing in the gun rags that their particular brand of ammo is "passé" or not "effective" then they may develop a self-fulfilling prophesy of failure. Thus they would not take the time to be skilled with such ammo to fulfill their prophesy.

I am curious if there has been any placebo controlled studies in the field of ammunition research.

[ITEOTWAWKI]

Taco, you may be onto something there. So by believing that black talons would stop Zeus himself...

[tulsamal]

If someone has the extreme conviction that their ammo is so powerful and effective they will be more likely to practice with that ammo and take more careful shots if they ever were to be engaged in violent conflict.

It seems more likely to be the opposite to me. Like the people who say all you need to do with a 12 gauge and 00 Buck is "point it in the general direction of the bad guy." Why do you need to practice shooting fast controlled pairs and shot placement if you think the super duper handgun round you are carrying is going to blow somebody right out of their shoes? Only somebody who realizes that any handgun round is a weak compromise will really seriously devote themselves to getting those perfect hits that are really required.

Gregg

[Freetacos]

good point tulsamal