Competition rifle

[CrustyFN]

I don't have much experience with rifles. I would like to get some info on what you think a good entry level center rifle would be for shooting up to 300 yard competition. I would also need the ammo to be reasonable so that I could practice a lot without breaking the bank. Thanks in advance for all of your help. I forgot to mention that the rifle won't be used for hunting.
Thanks,
Rusty

[rgitzlaff]

What type of competition do you plan on shooting in? Highpower rifle, silouhette, benchrest, rimfire? If you don't want to break the bank, you better start reloading. To be competitive you need to practice and use plenty of ammo.

[Scorch]

What kind of competition? Benchrest? Hunter class? Military match? F class? 300 meter competition is not really enough to go on. Just my opinion, but you should go talk with your local gun club. There is probably someone there who organizes competitions who can put you in touch with people who can help you choose which type of competition to be involved in.

[CrustyFN]

Here is an example of the different types of competition I was refering to.
Rusty

Rattle Battle Match

You need about 150 rounds

You shoot as many hits as possible in one minute.

300 yard prone, 1 minute, scored.

200 yard, sitting or kneeling, 1 minute, scored.

100 yards, off hand, 1 minute, scored.

Targets are IDPA style silhouette



Center Fire Rifle 200 Yd. Match

5 sight in rounds, not scored.

10 rounds prone, slow fire, scored.

10 rounds prone, in 60 seconds, scored.

10 rounds sitting or kneeling, in 60 seconds, scored.

10 off hand, in 60 seconds, scored.



Center Fire Rifle 300 Yd. Match

5 sight in rounds, not scored.

10 rounds prone, slow fire, scored.

10 rounds prone, in 60 seconds, scored.

10 rounds sitting or kneeling, in 60 seconds, scored.

[jrt_ms1995]

M-1 Garand. More than adequate for what you identify. Borrow one until you meet the qualifications for purchasing one from the Civilian Marksmanship Program (like I did in the late 80's) then worry about improving it (if needed) later.

[taylorce1]

I think you could get by with an AR pretty easily and .223 ammo is dirt cheap. Match grade ammo will be more expensive than the cheap stuff but the round is capable of doing everything that you stated in your types of competition that you are intrested in. If you are going to compete get into reloading as soon as possible to tweak the round to your firearm.

[Anthony Terry]

Browning M-1000 stainless eclipse, 22-250

[Jim Watson]

AR.
Ample for 300 yards, readily upgradeable for 600 when wanted.

M1 or M1A will do it but at greater cost and kick.

Friend of mine is a High Power shooter. A bolt gunner getting off ten accurate shots in a minute's time is a fine accomplishment, but not one I care to learn with autos available.

[CrustyFN]

Thanks for all of your replies.

If you are going to compete get into reloading as soon as possible to tweak the round to your firearm.

Funny you should mention that. I am very interested in reloading. I bought the spear reloading manual #13 and am in the process of reading it. I am also starting to shoot in IDPA and want to reload for that and other competitions I might shoot in. Thanks for your help.
Rusty

[tarheellefty]

No idea what your age is but to give you a clue of mine - for my 1st computer science class we typed lines of program onto cards and fed them through a card reader. that was clear back in 1981 ! then the Pc came out. back in the old days for computers there was a saying find the software you want to use , then buy a computer that will run it (thankfully we're way past that).
So what does that have to do w/ firearms? just making an analogy . You asked for firearm recomendations- my advice is to pick a caliber 1st. and I STRONGLY recomend strting with a military caliber. either 223 or 308 , depending on the power you want. A 308 takes almost twice the powder to throw a bullet ( I load 24 gr Varget in my 223 loads( 77 sierra) ; I put 46 gr varget behind my 155 sierras for the 308). the only other starting caliber I'd think about might be 22-250 ( which I've never dealt with) .
Shooting is about sight alignment and trigger control. you need a good trigger and good sights . I like ARs , but not standard type a good trigger is well worth it. which makes me say (again) " Savage with accu-trigger" if you're thinking bolt gun.
Have fun!

[hps1]

As much as I hate to admit it (died in the wool Garand fan:) ), today, the AR would be my choice out to 300 yards, especially for the rattle battle. Shot the rattle battle with the M1 Garand once on a service team in 1961; didn't help my trigger control a bit :( .

The '06 slows your recovery time on rapid fire strings as your position loosens up due to recoil. Also the 8 round capability would be a disadvantage. Do they limit the number of rounds you may load in the rifle for the RB? If not, the high cap magazines would be an extra bonus in favor of the AR.

Another plus is the availability of inexpensive 223 ammo. Assume they are still using silhouette targets for the RB and score is either hit or miss?

Regards,
hps

Edit: I re-read your post and see the RB targets are still silhouettes. We shot a team match in 61; a team was three men, two shooters and a coach. The coach had a pair of 7x35 GI binoculars and spotting the bullet trace, gave his team members an idea as to where they were hitting ("favor left or right/push a little black or take a little white"). Can't remember exactly how scoring went, but each team had a bank of five (IIRC) targets to cover and it cost the team points if all targets were not hit at least once. The team was issued a given quantity of ammo which was distributed between the shooters, the strong shooter usually was given more rounds and covered three of the five targets. Been too long, have forgotten the details, but it was a fun shoot.

[oldbillthundercheif]

That "Rapid Battle Match" sounds like pure entertainment. I want in. Who runs these matches?

[CrustyFN]

The '06 slows your recovery time on rapid fire strings as your position loosens up due to recoil.

It sounds like the 223 might be the best choice. Can anybody give me an idea of what power scope you would need for 300 yards?

No idea what your age is

To give you a clue I graduated high school in the mid 70's. I just sound inexperienced because I am.:D Actually I just became interested in guns and this summer is my first experience with shooting. I grew up in California. In the Bay Area where I grew up shooting wasn't very popular and I didn't know anybody that was into shooting.

That "Rapid Battle Match" sounds like pure entertainment. I want in. Who runs these matches?

All I can suggest is to look on the internet for clubs in your area. You shouldn't have to be a member of the club to shoot in a match, they will charge a small entry fee. I just joined a club in SE Ohio. Our matches are open to anybody that wants to shoot in them. At our Glock match last month we had people come from as far away as New Jersey. The main reason I joined the club was to learn from some of the members and it is also a lot safer to shoot at their range than the public range.

Rusty

[FirstFreedom]

For that purpose, get an AR15-style rifle in .223 (& 5.56mm nato). And get it with a 1 in 8 or 1 in 7" twist, so that you are good to go, if you ever want to go out to 500 or 600. No drawback in getting the tighter twist rates, IMO. On a budget, get a KelTec SU16.

[hps1]

It sounds like the 223 might be the best choice. Can anybody give me an idea of what power scope you would need for 300 yards?


Are scopes allowed in the rattle battle? The only one I shot in was an Army area match and, of course, we used issued service rifles. Was glad it was not my rifle, as the barrel gets really hot on a Garand firing that many rounds that fast. If scopes are allowed, I would attend a match and talk to the competitors and check out their equipment to see what is being used (successfully;) ). I would suspect that a good 3 x 9 would be quite adequate for silhouetts @ 300. That is my favorite for coyote hunting and is usually used on lower end of power range; only crank up for the long shots...250+.

While an experienced bolt gun shooter can easily get off 10 or more well aimed rounds in 50 seconds, the AR would be much better than a bolt gun for this type of match, especially if the magazine is the only limitation as to number of rounds shooter can load at a time.

Have fun!

Regards,
hps

[CrustyFN]

Thanks First that sound like some great advice. I will have to do some research.

Are scopes allowed in the rattle battle?
Good question. I will have to ask about that and magazine restrictions.
Thanks,
Rusty

[Lycanthrope]

Best service rifle bang for the buck.

Complete RRA/Stag lower $200

+

White Oak Armament upper.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/

+ A two stage RRA trigger worked over by White Oak Precision. $115

A serious competition rifle for about what you'd pay for some shelf rifles of much lesser class...... $1000....

[Anthony Terry]

Mini 14 is something to look into also.

[maas]

this sounds like a job for my dream gun. a bar with a bull barrel chambered in 22-250 with a conventional 10 round mag.:D

seriously id look into a nice m-14. the .308 is cheep enough and m-14's are pretty accurate. plus it sounds like its a speed accuracy competition, so the semi auto detachable clip would fit the bill.

[30Cal]

Those matches sound like typical NRA Highpower matches. They're generally iron sights only (unless they allow F-class rules) and split into Match Rifle or Service Rifle (AR15, M1 or M14). For the rapid fire stages, there will be a reload, so you'll either need a removable magazine or clips.

"Rattle Battle" is the unofficial name for the National Trophy Infantry Team match. At the national matches, it's a 6-man team shooting on 8 targets. 50 second firing periods at 600 yds (prone) where a hit is worth 4pts, 500yds (prone) where a hit is worth 3pts, 300yds (Sitting) 2pts per hit and if you are doing poorly, 200yds (offhand). You also square the number of targets with 6 or more hits and add that to your score. The team fires a total of 384rds--we loaded ~25rds each for 600 and 500 and 7-14rds for sitting at 300yds. It's fired with service rifle only, although local clubs may run their own rules. It's fun to shoot. I just center up on the target frame and don't worry about elevation (it's a tall target).

A team shooting Garands at the NTIT.
http://tyoberg.multiply.com/video/item/6

[FirstFreedom]

Lyc, why'd you have to go and do that, now? (post a link to white oak). Now I 'need' one of those .223 chamber varminter uppers at $590. :mad: :p

[Tim R]

Mini 14 is something to look into also.

Sorry Anthony, the mini won't be competitive as they don't shoot as well as some other platforms.

Best service rifle bang for the buck.

Complete RRA/Stag lower $200

+

White Oak Armament upper.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/

+ A two stage RRA trigger worked over by White Oak Precision. $115

A serious competition rifle for about what you'd pay for some shelf rifles of much lesser class...... $1000....
Sage advice. It sounds like you are looking at High Power.

It sounds like a service rifle is what you are after. RRA's National Match is a good one as well.

I built a AR service rifle using a RRA NM lower with a White Oak Precision upper. Trigger was tuned by WOP as well. The thing is a tack driver. I would look at getting 1/4 moa sights. Twist should be no less than 7 to 1. Mine is a 6 1/2 to 1 and shoots 69 to 80gr SMK's like a house a fire.

[Ken O]

+1 on what Tim says, he hit the nail on the head. I have two lower, one a Bushmaster which I put a WOP (White Oak Precision) tuned RRA (Rock River Arms) trigger in. The other lower is a RRA with the trigger sent to WOP to get "tuned". The two uppers that I use for competition are both WOP, one with a 6½ twist and the other with a 7 twist. They are both hammers. If you are serious about getting into the Service rifle matches, I would suggest a RRA lower and send the trigger to WOP (about $25) to get tuned, and get a WOP or the lower cost WOA upper, and you will have equipment that will shoot as good as you can hold for the lowest cost.
The Rattle battle matches are always won by either the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit (AMU) or the U.S.M.C. Rifle team, some civilian teams score close to the top also, but probably 98% of all teams are using ARs. There were a couple teams this year that used M1s, but finished at the bottom, but I'm sure they had a ball shooting!