870 Question??

[Bentonville]

I want to purchase, new or used, an 870 Police. I have read several places that the springs were heavier on the Police than on the regular 870 Express. Also the magazine holds more. I have yet to find one marked Police. I found an 870 Express Magnum for $285 which the dealer says is the one that Law Enforcement purchases because they no longer put the word "Police" on the side. I found the 870 in a synthetic stock, and also in a wooden stock. I have found a used 870 Express Magnum in synthetic stock with a glow-in-the-dark sight and side saddle on it for $325. No telling how used. I need advice please.

[LSU12ga]

What are you askling adivce on? i bought my 870 express super magnum for 200, synthetic stock and 28'' barrel. it was in great condition so it seems that the guns you have sound seem a bit pricey. you might want to look for an 870 with a long barrel, and sell the long barrel on ebay to finance the purchase of a short barrel.

As far as the police models go, youll find that a lot of people around here will just suggest an 870, no p. I would have to agree, i think a non police issue 870 will be just fine.

[gdm]

you're paying extra for the word"police" engraved on the side.get a standard 870 express magnum and replace the guts with a police turn in gun if you like,the parts interchange.

as far as springs go, you can get a wilson upgrqade kit from brownelles website.the magazine extension tube can be added as well but note there are dimples in the express models that prohibit the shels from going past them and is used to contain the spring follower and cap.its easy to drill them out and screw on an extension...add a clamp to keep it from moving and as a sling attachment point.

used 870 express mags go for around 200-225 bucks.home defense models that already have the remington factory extended magazine added and the 18" barrel..go for more.Im not a fan of plastic and locking safty triggers so the first thing I did to mine was swap out the trigger group for a metal one.choate machine makes a good 8-shot extension and spring,add a non rifled 20" deer barrel and your good to go,the tip of the extension is flush with the end of the barrel.you can change the rifle sights to tru-glow,they are easy to change.

[Lee Lapin]

I found an 870 Express Magnum for $285 which the dealer says is the one that Law Enforcement purchases because they no longer put the word "Police" on the side.
===============================================
Mr. E,

I don't think so.

Take a look at http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/870.htm . Note the model numbers/order numbers on the variety of 870Ps listed on the various pages linked from there. Ask your Remington Factory Certified Expert Dealer Information Dispenser (TM) what specific model number is on the box for the Express gun he's trying to pass off on you as an 870P. See if it matches any of the model numbers on the list of 870Ps you jotted down. I think you'll discover that it's a different model number and that any recently manufactured 870P is going to have POLICE MAGNUM stamped into the side of the receiver as big as life.

I have seen a lot of dealers lately offering the 870 18" barrel, synthetic furniture Express models (with and without the 2-shot magazine extension) to the unsuspecting public as Police or Law Enforcement guns. Ain't so, sorry. They used to list them as Home Defense (HD) models, now they are just one more variety of Express guns.

It's up to you to be an edumacated consumer or you will forever be getting ripped off. An Express gun ain't a Police gun and the prices are likely to be about $100 apart. Back in the old days when I was buying my first used 870s (the early 1970s) all 870s were marked Wingmaster and that was it. The Police guns had 18" cylinder choke barrels, the Riot guns had 20" cylinder choke barrels and that was how you told the difference.

Nowadays things are more complicated. If you just gotta gotta gotta have a Police gun, order one from one of the distributors that sells them and get a gin-you-wine brand new in the box POlice gun sent to your local FFL dealer. Or buy a used law enforcement trade-in, if you can find one. They do turn up from time to time.

But if I were you and I just wanted a good 870, I wouldn't bother. I'd just go find a good solid used 870, be it Wingmaster, Police or (older) Express gun, and be happy. I have all three versions, more than one of each, and I can't tell that it makes any real difference which one you buy. The most I ever paid for any used 870 was $270 for the trade-in 870P (marked POLICE MAGNUM), it was almost new condition with nice walnut furniture and a polished blue finish, it was made in 1989 according to the serial number (Remington will tell you your gun's year of manufacture if you call them at their toll free number and give them the serial number). That was about $100 less than a brand new 870P of the same model would cost at the time.

Yes, some of the springs are a bit beefier on an 870P. No big deal, certainly not enough of a big deal to pay an extra hundred bucks for IMO. Chances are you are not going to wear out any 870 no matter what model, no matter what springs are in it. Magazine springs need replacing every so often anyway, just replace it with a heavier Wilson or whatever spring when you do. The shell stops aren't likely to wear out, neither is the trigger return spring, and AFAIK those are the only springs that are heavier in the 870P.

Even an older model Express gun is still a heck of a tough pumpgun, I'd rather have an older one in good shape (no magazine tube dimples, aluminum trigger plate instead of plastic) than a brand new one. They turn up on the used racks pretty often, in good enough shape to consider bringing home and at bargain prices to boot.

If you really want a real 870P no matter what the price, find one that says 870 POLICE on the side. Drop a note to Kevin Wells at Discreet Ordnance (kevinDOTwells(AT)disc-ordDOTcom, substiture . for DOT and @ for (AT) of course), see what he can do for you on prices for a new 870P shipped to the local FFL of your choice.

lpl/nc (unless things have changed lately with how Remington marks 870s, I'd be looking for a different dealer. Ask Kevin when you email him, he sees brand new 870Ps often and I don't)

[Dfariswheel]

To reiterate the above, for the last 20?? years ALL Remington Police guns are plainly stamped POLICE MAGNUM on the side of the receiver.

If it's stamped EXPRESS MAGNUM, it is NOT a genuine police gun.
Some people "call" all short barreled Remington 870's "police" models, but ONLY real Police guns are so marked.

Second, many people have NO idea what makes a Police Model a police model, and will tell you the only difference is the finish, and that you're stupid to spend extra money for nothing.

Here's what the Remington FACTORY says about the difference:
==================================
REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.

All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models. Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.

While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

[Death from Afar]

Dfsafari- you are a shotgun guru. Even I didnt know that! :)

[ddskehan]

I have a police 870. It works great and the action is smooth like butter. I put a knoxx spec op stock on it. I had to change the mag spring thou. It didn't keep sufficient pressure on the shells. I had several FTF until changed out with a wilson ex power one. when I go shooting with my friends who have 870s they always seem to end up shooting mine. their actions are kind of gritty.

['75Scout]

I originally wanted an 870P because the Express models feel gritty. I just went with a 1956 Wingmaster Riot Gun. The older 870s are built to a higher standard than the newer ones and I love mine. Plus I paid $285 instead of $600 my gun store said the 870P would cost.