9mm or .40

[8's trigger hits]

I have read so many threads that gave me a good idea of what to look for in my next gun purchase. Some of my history... I own a GP100 6" so am used to a little bark. The semi auto that I have shot the most was a 4" .45 1911, about 300 rounds. For some reason I was never as good at 25 yards with the .45 as the .357 mag, or .38. Is it the round? The 4" barrel? To the point I am looking to buy a SA/DA auto and want to check out the Sig 226, H&K USP, and CZ 75b. As you have almost all stated I want to see which gun fits me. That is for the gun now what about the round????

Is the 9mm more accurate?
Does the .40 have that much needed punch for carry?
Which round is more accurate?

Help:confused:

[BusGunner007]

I like the .40

[TrooperSon]

I have both of the above. I love both of them and both shoot well for me. I am slightly more accurate with the 40. Not sure why as the barrel is shorter and there is a little more kick. I would have expected to be a little tighter with the 226. I don't know what the scientific data says about 9mm vs 40 in terms of accuracy, but this has been my experience.

[adephue]

I don't think either round is more accurate... longer barrel w/ decent marksman = better accuracy.

If you are ok w/ the recoil, get a .40 w/ the longest barrel you can live with (take into consideration concealed carry, etc).

Just my .02

[DonR101395]

I carry a 9mm basically because I can get more bang for the buck. Practice ammo costs half as much, so I shoot more. I shoot all three calibers well, but I shoot the 9 a little better because I can shoot it more often.

[robctwo]

I have the Sig 226, CZ75BD, BHP, Glock 17 & 34 in 9mm. I sold the Beretta Cougar .40 and Para 16 Ltd .40. Still have the CZ IPSC Standard in .40.

If the CZ fits, you can put a .22 Kadet Kit on it for anothe $300 and have the two guns on one frame.

I've recently moved into the .45 with a few guns. For some reason I'm more comfortable with the 9mm and .45. I have wanted to like the .40 best, but haven't gotten there.

[KS1911]

The best of all worlds. Get a 357 sig. With the sig P229 in 357 or 40, you can convert to the other with sig factory barrels and use the same mags. You can also put in a conversion barrel to make it 9mm. You can do this with a 226 and 229.

[silver-bullet]

It seems that you have a definite preference for accuracy in whatever semi-auto you decide to buy. Over the years, I've owned just about all the major brands, so I'll give you a general recommendation based on what I think you might be looking for.

First, I'm going to recommend the 9mm. It is generally an easier cartridge to shoot accurately because the recoil is mild, the blast is minimal, and the cost of ammo is inexpensive (which allows a lot of practice). It is also WELL up to the task of defending your life, when loaded properly.

Next, let's talk about accuracy. Trigger-pull is an important factor here. Among the most reliable brands, within the double-action/single-action category you specified, I would say the Sig-Sauer line of pistols have the best overall trigger-pull. Ergonomics play a role as well, and here Sig is pretty tough to beat. The 9mm Sig p226 or p229 should be plenty accurate for ANYBODY'S requirements, and both are top-drawer reliable.

But they are expensive. Among the more affordable 9mm's--which also have a well-deserved reputation for reliability and durability--the most accurate I've ever fired are the CZ-75b and the Beretta 92fs. Both of these weapons can be had for $440 to $500, and both are excellent choices within your stated criteria. The grip of the CZ is a little more comfortable than the Beretta, especially if you have small hands.

So, to sum up: On the lower end of the price-scale, I would highly recommend both the CZ and the Beretta. On the higher-end of the price-scale, I'd go for the Sig p226 or p229, all in 9mm. Although I am one of the biggest proponents of Heckler & Koch pistols anywhere on this forum, I think the Sigs tend to have slightly better triggers, hence my recommendation of those pistols at the high-end of the price spectrum. Best of luck!

[8's trigger hits]

Thanks for the insight. The thing I like a lot about the SA 1911 is that there is a crisp trigger, so that really helps silver-bullet. The smiths and ruger SA/DA that I have shot were longer pulls and at the time, I have only shot a few mags full from nice folks at the range. With practice that trigger could be comfortable, but I would rather start w/ something I am more familiar w/. Does the weight of the .45 round limit the accuracy at 25+ yards?

[GoSlash27]

8's,
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that your improved accuracy with the .38/.357 is because revolvers fit you better.
I'd recommend a 9mm for the reasons listed above, but wouldn't recommend a specific platform just yet.

[hsim]

Does the weight of the .45 round limit the accuracy at 25+ yards?

No it certainly does not. Some of the most accurate pistols I own are in this caliber. That's not to say you can not get good accuracy from a 9 or a 40. (I personally have not seen good accuracy from a 357 sig)

If you have doubt's about the accuracy of your gun, I would highly recommend that you shoot it off the bench to first determine it's 'accuracy'.

once you have a base line to know what to look for, everything else is up to you;)

[rmagill]

From what I have heard from some former LEOs (who happen to be gun enthusiests), the 9mm is infamous for not stopping people, whereas the .40 is better at stopping people (in LEO situations). So, yeah, the .40 does have that "much needed punch for carry?". Also, if you are concerned about the "punch" of the .40, then the 9mm should be out of the question, seeing as how it is a smaller bullet without any significant velocity increase (ie. .357mag/sig).

The advantage of the 9mm is the extra capacity. However, there are now .45 guns that have about the same capacity as a higher capacity 9mm.

If you are not sure what you want, you can get a Sig 229 in .40. This is a good, accurate gun (I own and carry one) which allows you to also shoot .357 Sig with a drop-in barrel. Relevant to your question, you can also get a 9mm barrel for it and 9mm magazines. This would alow you to have the option of .40, but if you don't like it, you only need to spend about $150 + some mags to change to a 9mm handgun, as opposed to trading in a .40 for a 9mm (or just buying a 9mm and keeping both).

As for accuracy, as adephue said, no one round is "more accurate" than another. It comes down to the platform and the marksmanship of the shooter with that platform at a given range (practice, practice, practice).

[silver-bullet]

8's trigger hits,

Just a couple of quick questions, which will help narrow your search:

What do you want this gun to do? Are you looking for a range weapon that can shoot with supreme accuracy at 25 yards and beyond? Or, are you looking for a weapon that you can conceal? Are you looking for the most effective manstopper? (lots of debate on that one). Also, what is your budget for the weapon/ammo? How about your hand size?

As for the 1911, it has one of the best trigger-pulls of any handgun, but in my experience you'll have to pay a high price to get a very accurate one (as evidenced by your own experience). Probably the most accurate .45 I've ever fired is the one I own. The HK USP Full-Size. Superior to any 1911 I've ever fired. It is a little large in the grip though, so take this into consideration.

[18DAI]

+1 What silver-Bullet said. My HK USPF 45 is scary accurate. This past Saturday, a newbie who'd never shot a semi auto, put a 2" group a 7 yards, first mag with it. Mine is past 6000 rounds with 0 malfunctions. Great 45 IMHO. Regards 18DAI.

[shield20]

Can some one explain how the Sigs are capable of shooting both 9mm AND .40/.357 out of the same gun with just a barrel swap?

[Lieut96]

Can some one explain how the Sigs are capable of shooting both 9mm AND .40/.357 out of the same gun with just a barrel swap?

It is not uncommon for a pistol to be able to fire different calibers with a conversion barrel. Some may require different magazine also but still a cheap way to have two guns. :)

[281 Quad Cam]

The argument for whether .40 or 9mm is inherently more accurate is just silly...

What WILL make for accuracy however, is practice, practice practice, thousands and thousands of rounds of practice!!!! 9mm often comes with a nicer price tag. WWB 115gr 9mm FMJ goes for 11 dollars per 100 rounds, and thats new manufacture, brass case. Being just about the lowest cost centerfire cartridge you can get your hands on, you may want to look into getting a 9mm because practice is what makes accuracy.

[Hank's Dad]

Both are accurate. Both fit the bill when it comes to home defense, if you use the right ammo. We're talking minute differences in 1 shot stop averages...all are at least 9 out of 10 times. That's good enough for me.

But my experience with the 40's always leaves me going back to the nines or 45's. If you want capacity...9. If you want power...45 or 357. I tend to shoot the 45's and 9's better than the 40's, so that is my preference. And, 9mm ammo is still cheaper and allows me to practice/shoot more for much less.

And as long as I'm at it, I'd go with the Sig. They work, and work well everytime.

Have a Happy Day!

[shield20]

96,

Understood - but the case on the 9mm is smaller then the .40/.357. I see several posts that Sigs only need a barrel swap - so what did Sig do that allows 1 slide to handle both cartridges???

[givo08]

There is a lot of misinformation spread about performance differences in 9mm vs. .40 vs. .45. There really is very little difference between the 3. With high performance ammo, they all penetrate about the same and expand to within .07" of each other (very small difference). None of them have enough force of impact to "knock someone over," that is a holywood myth. The force that each exerts on the body is definitely not enough to knock a grown man off his feet (about the same as if someone dropped a 16 oz water bottle from a height of ~10 feet onto your chest).

If you want to penetrate barriers like car doors, windshields, etc, I think heavier bullets will help more, and in that case, the heavier .40 bullets may be a slight advantage over 9mm because they have more momentum, however the armed, law abiding citizen should have little need for that imo. For a direct shot into another person (or through drywall into a person), I don't think there is a single shot 9mm vs. .40 difference. The 9 and 40 certainly hold a lot more firepower than .45 though...

[cpaspr]

If I may jump in.

It's not just the Sigs that can "down-caliber". Some Glocks can swap too, maybe others as well. (But none will go from 9 mm up to the .357Sig/.40S&W platform. It's a one-way option.) Simply put, the slide on the pistol holds the barrel. With the .40S&W / .357Sig guns, the main difference in the barrels is the inside diameter (bullet outside diameter). That, and the requisite chamber shapes. Both simply a matter of how the barrel is drilled out from each end. Additionally, I think you can use the same magazines for either round in some Sigs, but must get separate magazines for others (such as the P239). But I could be wrong on that.

Sig only sells the .357Sig and .40S&W barrels for their dual caliber guns. They say you can't go down to 9 mm for these guns. A more accurate statement would be that they (SigSauer and Glock, etc.) don't offer the consumer the option to drop down to 9 mm. They want to sell you another gun for that.

But there are aftermarket barrel makers that do offer 9 mm barrels to fit these guns. Barsto is one I am aware of, though I have no personal knowledge, since I haven't yet come up with a good enough reason to drop the $200+ required for a barrel and the requisite magazines. The aftermarket barrel makers simply make a 9 mm barrel, but with the external dimensions of a .40S&W barrel. (Think "bull barrel" here. :)) The extractors are usually perfectly fine as well, since they only need to spring over half a milimeter further to grab the 9 mm case.

Another item you need to be aware of is that the manufacturer probably needs to offer the same gun in 9 mm, so 9 mm magazines are available to fit in the .40/.357 pistol magazine well. Though I've heard of some people using their .40/.357 mags for 9 mm as well. If it works for the particular gun, you can effectively kick the capacity up to 15-17 for some guns. Though you wouldn't want to CC such a configuration. But that's fodder for a different discussion.

[Redneckrepairs]

I really dont think it makes any differance , both will do the job if you stand up and get a good hit , neither will without a good hit , pick what you like and practice a lot .

[shield20]

Thanks cpa! I didn't think the same slide could handle both the 9mm & "10mm" cases; but that "extractor vs. only 1/2mm" puts it in perspective.

[JohnO]

Don't get hung up on calibers. There are great defense loads for all calibers these days. It's more important to pick the right load for the caliber you shoot, than to think there is 1 caliber that will do it all.

My personal experice has been accuracy with the .40 s&w has not been as good as the 9's and 45's I have shot. That's my experience. I'm sure there are others that experice differently.

However, I'm splitting hairs. At any given time if the groups I shot were transferred over into a defense situation, neither caliber would have made a damn bit of difference. Each have been accurate enough to put all shots into an upper torso @ 25 yds.

Buy the gun you like and which fits you best. Whatever caliber you decide on, try different loads to see which shoots most accurately and functions properly in your gun. Then, choose a load that has a good reputation on the street. Like I said earlier, there are good and bad loads in ALL calibers.

[Moloch]

If target shooting is the main thing you want to do with the gun, the caliber doesn't matter.
If you want to have a little bit more recoil, boom and power, and you also want to use it as a HD/SD gun get the .40.
( That doesn't mean that the 9mm is a bad HD/SD caliber)

Both 9mm and .40S&W are accurate rounds, far more accurate than most shooters.

[WESHOOT2]

I much prefer the 9x19 cartridge for everything other than police duty.

It is easier to handle the recoil because there is less of it.
Ammo is cheaper, and plentiful anywhere you go.
Modern civilian defense ammo is capable in the extreme.
Magazine capacity is greater.
An amazingly wide spectrum of ammo is commercially available.
9x19 aka "9mm Luger"


That said, my personal fav is the 41 AE, but I really really like the 45 ACP / 1911 combo ALOT, and I have a deep and abiding fondness for the 357 Magnum, and a shorter love affair with the 44 Magnum and 'utility' loads.

[Topthis]

I have 9mm, .40's and a .45. I shoot the 9mm and the .45 much more than I do the .40s'. I don't like the snappy muzzle flip from the Beretta 96f and I hate the extra cleaning that goes into my ported G23c (yeah, so I am lazy!!). But much more than that, I am lethal with the accuracy with the 9mm...of course I have approx. 15k through my XD-9 and my groups with the KP345 are just a little wider than my 9mm. But it really is a matter of preference...which do YOU shoot better.

[RERICK]

Without a dought,The Sig P229 in a 40 with night sights.I carry it both on and off duty and to date it has never had any type of malfunction ever.Though some would dissagree I always felt that a
9mm wasn't quite enough and the 45 was too much.So for me personally and many law enforcment
personal the 40 seemed to fit the bill.And many are using the Sig P229.

[8's trigger hits]

I suppose I am looking for the best of all aspects as I would rather spend a little more and get one good semi auto. Rather than say a .45 compact for carry and a 5" or longer range gun. The guns that appeal to me are the mid size 4.25" to 4.7". Recoil in the .45 seamed very minimal to me. That said, I would probably practice more with cheaper ammo. So right now I am leaning toward the 226 sig in 9mm as long as it fits and feels comfortable. As for hand size, large to x large gloves, (size 10 wedding ring but I can't get it off).:)

Thanks to all, the opinions on this forum are intruiging!

[silver-bullet]

8's Trigger, The answers help a lot. I really think you should check out the Sig Sauer p229 in 9mm. It has one distinct advantage over the p226: It is much more versatile. You can stow it easier, carry it easier, and it conceals far better than any p226. It's a good-size weapon, however, much easier to handle, shoot, and control than the micro-compacts. It really fits the definition of "all-around" handgun, and should prove very accurate. I owned the Sig p228, which was replaced by the p229 (which features a stronger slide, tactical rail, and external extractor), and it was one of the most reliable, accurate weapons I owned. Best of luck.