New Shooter: 243 or 308

[roast]

I am looking to purchase my first rifle. From what I have researched so far, I have it narrowed down to a 243 or a 308. I will primarily be using the rifle for target shooting at the range (300 yds max) with casual deer hunting maybe 3 times a year. Probably a break down of 80% range 20% hunt.

I am not looking to break the bank with rifle + scope ($400max?). So I was wondering whats out there in this price range if any?! Any other recommendations besides these two? Thanks.

[swampdog]

What do you plan on hunting? That should answer your question for you. I have a .308 and have found it to be a good "do anything caliber". YMMV

I'd try to save money somewhere else and buy the rifle I wanted. You'll be happier down the road.

[roast]

I would be hunting deer in PA. From what I have read here, both can take down deer. So my dilema still exists. What would be a better range gun then? Ammo prices? Can both take down other large animals if I decided to hunt just more than deer?

[Drue]

Other than mil surps, a Rem 700 in .243 was my first rifle. I don't regret the choice.

The .308 is a better deer caliber but the .243 will do the job with the right bullets on "normal" sized deer at close to middle range. At longer ranges the velocity advantage of the .243 diminishes but the .308 bullet still has its weight and remains effective at greater range. The .308 has a distinct advantage when hunting anything larger than deer. The .243 has less recoil which is an advantage in longer sessions at the range. Commercial ammo costs pretty much the same between the two. The .243 costs a little less to reload. If you don't reload, the availability of surplus ammo for less expensive shooting is a distinct advantage for the .308.

They are both great calibers and are both very popular. The question to ask is whether the effectiveness at longer range and on bigger animals plus the availability of surplus ammo are more important than the diminished recoil and possibly less expensive reloads for most (80%) of your shooting?

My $0.02.

Drue

[thanks]

I think I would go with the .243. I have shot a friend's and it is nice! Very little recoil, easy to find ammo, and pretty versatile. I have several friends who use a .243 as their primary deer caliber. Shoots flat and hits hard enough at the other end to do the job. I don't care much for recoil so for a target/fun gun, I would go with the 243. Granted, there is a lot of surplus .308 ammo out there. Good Luck.

[swampdog]

At the risk of being flamed, I think you'll find the .308 more versatile. Some people consider a .243 a heavy varmint cartridge and marginal for deer. The .243 will have less recoil and might possibly be more "fun" for a new shooter. I don't think a .308 will have too much recoil for you, especially in a full sized rifle. Get the one you want, either will kill a whitetail if you do your part.

You mentioned hunting other animals besides deer. If you're thinking larger than deer, I'd go with the .308.

Do you have a .22 rimfire?

[zzirg]

I would definatly go with the .308,its one of the most ballistic coefficient rounds out there,thats partially why the military has used the round so long.

[virus77]

I was actually stuck between the two myself recently and I went with the .308 and couldn't be happier, my next gun will be a .243 or maybe .204 or maybe 300 mag, hahahah (your gonna end up with them all anyways ;) ). It might be wierd but I really get a rush from feeling a gun go bang when I shoot and I think the .308 is a perfect balance of recoil where its still enjoyable but strong enough to get an adrenaline rush from it, plus you savor each shot more. With that said and the availabilty of milsurp ammo the .308 is a great caliber.

[silver-bullet]

I don't hunt, so I'll stay away from that part of the equation, BUT since you want to do a lot of range shooting with the weapon, I would recommend the light-recoiling .243. They're a lot of fun to shoot, and 100 rounds at the range won't put a major dent in your shoulder (try 100 rounds of .308 sometime!). The only drawback to the .243 is the cost of ammo if you don't reload, which runs at least twice the price of surplus .308 ammo.

[jonutarr]

I've contemplated a .243, but really it's just a girls version of a 308 ;)

you will also have more options in the field with a 308.

[TJ Freak]

In my humble opinion I would get a .243 Savage. There are many models to chose from and they are renown for their accuracy. They are plenty af gun for Whitetails and Muleys. You can also use them for varmit hunting or the range when the season is over.

[jroth]

.243 then you can use lighter bullets for varmits and heavier for deer.

There was a Michigan United Conservation club show in October showing a
youth hunt, a 12/14 year ols used a .243 to take a 150/180 buck.
At the report. the buck was standing still, was flipped backwards on it back and laid still after hitting the ground.
It proves that a practised shot, proper placement and being patience pays off.

[Art Eatman]

First rifle? I'd suggest a .22 rimfire to learn about the whole package deal of rifle shooting. The ammo's really, really cheap. Sight picture, eye-finger coordination and all that. Start with iron sights and then add a scope.

My opinion about the .243 as a deer rifle is that it requires much more precision and confidence in one's skill level. I've killed over 20 deer with a .243, but I've been shooting for a long, long time.

It's my belief that you can be off your point of aim by a few inches with a .308 and still have a downed deer, whereas with the .243 the same impact could more easily result in a wounded deer that gets away. (That doesn't mean I believe in some magic to the .308; it readily causes more tissue damage with its deeper penetration.)

Art

[snolden]

If you ever decide to hunt somethign bigger than deer, go the 30-06 route, but the .308 should do you fine IF you practice enough to be a good shot. With a quality bolt action (yes even a savage) that won't take long.

.243 will make target practice more enjoyable but ammo will be more expensive.

My advice, get a good hunting rifle and a cheap 30 cal milsurp of some variety. shoot the milsurp for target practice and jsut shoot the hunting rifle enough to maintain proficiency.

I shoot my savage 30-06 about 10 times a year, 20-50 rounds per outing. That is it. My milsurps are for the FUN times at the range, although I suspect I could hunt with my FAL, but it is HEAVY.

[FirstFreedom]

.243 Win

[tINY]

If you want to speand $400 for a rifle + sights, then you will want a 308. Ammo cost will quickly add up to more than $400 if you don't shoot surplus.

Figure $14/ 20 cartridges for new commercial ammo and $3.50 - $8.00 per 20 surplus.

...for 500 ( maybe 10 trips to the range) the commercial is $350 and surplus is less than $200.

Then - I get 500 22 LR for $8 sometimes.....




-tINY

[chemist308]

I'm going to assume you already have a 22lr. But if you don't, first get a Marlin bolt action and top it off with an inexpensive Bushnell 3x9 and learn at $0.01 - $0.02 / round.
That said, I started in the world of high power with my dad's 243 and at 17 got a 308 in the exact same model. Start with a 308 for your high power. Use surplus 7.62x51 for general range shooting and 308Win hunting ammo of your choice for re-zeroing and hunting. The 308 is a better round, and I was never bothered by the recoil--though some surplus loads seems a little heavier than I like.
A 243 as you probably know is necked down 308 and will also drop anything in PA. Your ammo cost will be higher and it seems a bit heavy for a varmint rifle. Kills deer well enough too. Recoil is only a little less.

[Lawyer Daggit]

I realise I am going to upset some people, but I would not recommend a .243 to a beginner. People flinch for a variety of reasons and one of them is noise and the .243 is very noisy.

I agree with earlier posts about needing to know what you intend to shoot before making a recommendation.

If looking for a deer rifle have a long hard look at the 7x57 mauser. It is an exceptional killer and yet it is mild on the shoulder. The only down side is that US commercial rounds under load it so you will have to hand load.

[buckster]

If you don't, go get a CZ 452 and it will keep training you how to shoot through out your life. I use a 7mm WSM for deer, but the .22 always brings me back to the art of the rifle. God it's fun! If your already there, shop around for the right gun, not a certain caliber and or both. The 7mm08 is a great round for deer. What we are trying to suggest is to start small, to AVOID THE FLINCH.

[Ruger4570]

I recognize you are new to shooting and many of the previous posts make a lot of sense. A .22 is a good way to learn fundamentals and enjoy cheap shooting with little noise and recoil. I also see you intend to target shoot 80% of the time. For that, I would go for the .243 as most are very accurate. I have had 2 Savage 110's that would shoot at and under 3/4" at 100 yards. I have also hunted deer with a .243 along with coyotes, woodchucks etc. In my personal opinion the .243 is not the best choice for deer, the .308 is much better for this task. I know many hunters have been shooting deer with a 243 since they first came out, so did I. But experience has taught me, it is too light even with 100 gr. bullets. I now shoot a 6mm-284 wildcat and I only use it for some long range woodchucks, coyotes and targets. The ,243 is a "marginal" caliber for deer.

[Ruger4570]

Damn,, I just read my last post was #666,,, bet that will be bad luck,and probably get more flaming than usual from the 243 boys.

[Jack O'Conner]

I've hunted in Pennsylvania. Based upon my observations, shots can range from stone's throw to several hundred yards. Although most hills are heavily forested, many shots typical to the open country of the West are common. I viewed open farmlands and long electrical tower rights of way.

The Keystone State men I know hunt the same areas each year. They know local deer movements and predictable escape routes. This knowledge is used to complete successful ambush shots of 75 yards or less. Perhaps your deer hunting experiences are similar to these observations.

.308 advantages: wide latitude of hunting bullet weights to choose from. The handloader can easily replicate 30-30 or 30-06 performance.

.243 advantages: about half the recoil but slightly flatter trajectory.

Sometimes hunters misunderstand deadly performance. They observe ballistic charts and compare numbers. But in the deer woods, these numbers are largely irrelevant. A hunting bullet is not an auto race where one car finishes 1st, or 2nd, and so on. No! The animal either died quickly or it ran away and was not recovered. I'm not convinced that an animal is deader because it was killed with one hunting cartridge or the other.

Both .243 and .308 are deadly and have several decades of historical lethal performance. We have both rifles on our rack. They're keepers.
Jack

[Harley Quinn]

Many thing's you can do with it.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212604

HQ

[TPAW]

I'll throw you a curve ball. Think about a 30.06........;)

[Harley Quinn]

Go with the 308.:D

HQ:rolleyes:

[joneb]

How about a compromise 7mm-08 , oh don't forget about the 6.5x55 swede :)

[FirstFreedom]

Yeah, the best answer is a 6.5x55. But I find it hard to believe so many are recommending .308 for a FIRST rifle. .243 will have far less recoil, and I believe that recoil has far more to do with causing flinch than noise. .243 will work FINE for PA deer, provided good bullets are used (95, 100, 105, 107s). And the majority of the use of the gun is target shooting. .243 is far more pleasant after say, 60 rounds or so.

Oh yeah, as several have said, .22lr is best for a first rifle, for practicing technique. Then, get a .243 for targets. Then get a .308 or .30-06 or .270.

[Sturm&Rugerfan]

http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm

check out this nice 308win
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=21

[skeeter1]

I'm seconding Art Eatman's recommendation. Start out with a .22lr. It's good, cheap target practice, and will last you a lifetime.

Once you've gotten some practice, then I'd probably give the nod to the .308. Plenty of different rounds, from varmints to big critters, and you can always get some www.cheaperthandirt.com milsurp ammo to practice with.

This would be my first choice, but I'm guessing it may be out of your price range:

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7902&return=Y

Maybe you can skip lunch for a month. :)

[Harley Quinn]

Not a 22 or others.

308 with a bull barrel in bolt or you can go with a lever, or a pump.
Of course you can go the military 308 in SA. also.

My thoughts: A nice used 308 bull barrel, they are out there used and affordable. If you want to learn how to shoot, go with the peep sights.

HQ:rolleyes:

[Art Eatman]

Harley, he specifically said, "First rifle." My opinion is that some time spent with a .22 rimfire provides more learning and less expensive learning than a centerfire of any sort. I guess I'm of the "Start small and move up" school. I figure a guy fresh out of Driver's Ed isn't ready to climb into an Indy car. :)

Art

[Harley Quinn]

He did ask for other recommendations sorry. I need to read the whole post, and nothing but the post, next time.;)
HQ

[jamaica]

In your price range a Remington 700 is a good rifle.

243 or 308 ?

For my buck a 270 Win is a better caliber than either of those for deer. Faster shooting, flatter trajectory and plenty of energy.

Problem with the 308, 30-06 or 270 for a beginner is the recoil. I don't like to shoot more than 15 rounds at a session with my 270s as the shoulder starts to hurt.

If this will be your first shooting experience, may I suggest you get a 22 Long Rifle. Learn how to shoot then graduate to something with a recoil.

Anyway, if you are stuck with the two choices mentioned, you will enjoy shooting targets more with the 243. You don't want to start out flinching, which is what the 308 may teach you.

[yooperchuck]

Both of these rifles are wonderful things. My girlfriend just bought a .243 varmit rifle. At 100 yards using my handloads she hit three pop bottles filled with water and she said, "What now?". I said shoot the bottle you nicked and it rolled down the hill. She said, "there is no water in it that is no fun." So I said, *IN JEST* well shoot the cap off the bottle. She hunkered down over the rifle and shot.............and the cap was history. Now this may not happen all the time but I was impressed as hell with her as she is a first year shooter. She also has shot my 308 varmit rifle and hits one pound screw-in propane canisters at 250 yards using hornady 110 v-max bullets. She has hit gallon milk jugs at 325 yards with the 308. I think both of these rifles are wonderful. If deer hunting with a 243 you will SIMPLY have to be patient and choose your shot well. Not that a 308 you can just blast a deer. But if you know any rifles limitations you will excell. Hope this helps.

[joneb]

Roast, you may want to save up for awhile , with a $400 budget finding a new hunting rifle and scope will be tough and may be regretable. A H&R single shot and a Simons scope may leave $ left for ammo, but I would get the rifle for now and a good scope later.
some choices,
Remington 700
Howa
Savage
CZ
Only cry once. :)

[yooperchuck]

Although I prefer to buy my rifles new. I can suggest that maybe you could find a good used .243 or .308 at a reputable gunshop. In my area we are blessed with a great gunshop. He has a great selection of used pistols, rifles, powder etc. And a section we call the boneyard. He must have a hundred rifle and pistol scopes that we paw through looking for an appropriate scope. And he has more coming in almost every day. Maybe this could help you stay within budget? A savage in either caliber is likely less costly. I use a remington 700 308 varmit special. This was my first rifle purchase in YEARS........and am glad I chose IT. !!!!!Isnt this a great forum........lots of experienced shooters and friendly advice.

[john in jax]

.243, .270, 7mm-08, .308 are all excellent hunting rounds, BUT cheap, bulk, surplus .308 ammo gives it an edge over the others at the range.

Go for the .308 it should be all the rifle you'll ever need.

[gak]

Can't go too wrong with either caliber, but why the skip over the best of them all in many ways (for your situation), the 7mm-08? In lighter formats, less kick and just about the same (effectively, for you) ballistics as the .308, and more range, power and reach than the .243. The 7's the perfect tweener and certainly a good candidate for first rifle, but it is so good you will keep for a lifetime. It utilizes basically the same case (it too is a necked down .308). A gun like the Remington Mountain Rifle just about "made for" the 7mm-08. If you are small of stature, the Model 7's a great way to go too. 7mm-08s handle the shorter barrels great. Unfortunately, for some reason .308 choices among some of the better rifles has dwindled...like I say, don't know why (for instance, I believe Remington does not even chamber in their "regular" lineup (Model 7, 700 Mountain Rifle, BDL, CDL), though one of their recent annual "Classic" rifle choices I believe was a .308. That said, cannot beat a .308 and my next (or tied for first depending on objectives) however would be to find a nice .308--perhaps in a Savage--or a used Rem or Win. The Savage is not very fancy, but affordable and accurate. Good luck.