pistol grip on shotgun

[rhinov]

I have a Baikal Bounty Hunter II that I would like to put a pistol grip on. It's easy to find pistol grips on web they are everywhere. However they all seem to be specifically made for the same three or four shotguns. I really like the Speedfeed pistol grip stock set,but it is only made for the same few shotguns. Is it only the fore end that is specific. It seems to me that a rear pistol grip would fit just about anything. All you would need is the right size screw. I can understand the fore end being specific but not the rear pistol grip. Does anybody know of a pistol grip that would fit a side-by-side,or know anything at all that might help me.

[GlocksRfun]

I know the pistol grip on Mossy 500 has the screw and a notch cut into it to fit.

[RevolverLover]

I have not seen a aftermarket pgo stock for a sxs. The only thing I can think of is to cut down the stock but make sure its of legal length.

[rugerdude]

A pistol grip turns a functional shotgun into an unwieldy hollywood paper-weight. It will not be comfortable or easy to fire, and it is going to do everything it can to get free of your hands when you fire it, considering that it is a SxS then I'd say it's got a pretty good chance.

It's also not gonna be pretty because you'll need to cut your stock off yourself to get a pistol grip in the first place.

If you are dead set on a pistol grip and I can't change your mind, then your only option is cutting off the stock however the overall length of the firearm must be something like 26 inches maybe less.

[cscoios]

I totally agree with rogerdude.

Several months ago I changed my Mossberg 500a with pistol grip to full stock and its the best thing I've ever done.

At seven yards, I had no idea where on the paper I was going to hit with the pistol grip. Not the type of confidence I want with a SD shotgun. Not to mention the punishment it can do to your hand and forearm.

[LSU12ga]

Most people think a pistol grip is a huge waste of time, and should not be used, and that it makes a hollywood shotgun yadda yadda yadda.

You should really find out for yourself if you like the pistol grip or not. I am in a small apartment, and i put a pistolgrip on my 870, and it fits perfectly undermy bed. I took it to the range and blew out the X on the target, 21 feet away (longer than any distance in my apartment). Most of the guys who like to bash pistol grips dont know how to fire them. I hold mine like i would a normal shotgun, i just keep the gun away from my face i would say my hand is eight inches away from my eye, and i can aim down using the dot sight. i can fire and put most of the shots where i want. I say most, becuase if i do a rapid succession of 5 rounds, the last one usually goes higher than the others.

what i also like about the grip is the fact that it dosnt do punishment to my shoulder like the stock does, my bicep and tricep absorb most of the shock, and i dont feel anything in my wrist.

I've found out that you cant listen to what others tell you, you have to try it yourself, this is the case with the pg, if you can find one, use it, and if you dont like it sell it on ebay.

/end rant.

[GlocksRfun]

every time a pistol gripped shotgun thread pops up, u always get the anti's. Where's dude with his challenge. some like it, some don't. I personally like it. The question wasn''t if u think it's a good idea. Just cause u can't hit anything with it doesn't mean no one else can.

[gdeal]

A pistol grip does NOT belong on a shotgun .

[miscusi]

I like the idea of a pistol grip and stock combo on a shotgun. such as found on the familiar AR15 / M16.

when I eventually get that Rem 870 express, I would get this to go with it,

http://www.strongarmfitness.com/images/spg0100strong.jpg

Best of all, no gunsmitthing required and I like that idea, that I can always go back to the regular stock if I wanna, and for 39.99, it cant be beat.

[Dave McC]

OK, all you PG fans, here's the deal.

I live in Central MD. I'll drive up to 2 hours.

We'll shoot your COF, your choice of distance, your choice of ammo.

You can use ANY shotgun with any addon, provided it's equipped with only a PG.

I'll shoot one of my 870s.

We'll shoot for score, time decides ties, but there won't be any.

Results get posted rat cheer and over on THR.

And so you know, I got PAID to shoot from the hip and taught hundreds of people to do so.

There are shotgunners and there are posers and fantasizers.

Which one are you?

Sincerely, Dave,

AKA Lt B D McCracken, MD DOC (Ret),,,,

[famine]

I have a pistol grip on my 870 that I use for deer hunting with a rifled barrel, its great use the same setup for turkey and works great. The problem that I have is when I take the gun pheasent or pigeon hunting is that the pistol grip does not feel right for shooting in the air, my personal opinion. You can use it for birds or skeet but its just not that comfortable. Overall the pistol grip is good for some purposes and not as good for others.
famine

[GlocksRfun]

what does shooting at the hip have to do with anything?

[miscusi]

"There are shotgunners and there are posers and fantasizers.

Which one are you?"

you obviously pride yourself as a shotgunner, but isnt that post a bit "chip on the shoulder" ?

I mean like... come on, I am no shotgun expert, nor even a shotgun owner, but an outright challange directed to all pistol grip fans, that is a wee out there.

maybe you are taking things too seriously hmm.. ?

[Charles S]

A pistol grip turns a functional shotgun into an unwieldy hollywood paper-weight. It will not be comfortable or easy to fire, and it is going to do everything it can to get free of your hands when you fire it, considering that it is a SxS then I'd say it's got a pretty good chance.

It's also not gonna be pretty because you'll need to cut your stock off yourself to get a pistol grip in the first place.

+1

For the other pistol grip experts who have posted.

Take a real class in the use of a combat shotgun. I think you will re-evaluate your position.

Owning a gun does not make you an expert, or even competent. I will never cease to be amazed at how many people choose to keep a gun for self defense without any formal training.

I challenge you to take a class from a real expert. It will be an enlightening experience.

There are a number of excellent classes available. I will be happy to make a recommendation.

Charles

[tlm225]

The PG guys have it right in one sense, try it and see if it works for you, it'll only cost a few bucks.
I'm in the no PG camp. It's easy to declare yourself ready when you shoot at a pace and distance thats within your abilities, just don't set the standard too low.
My agency allows officers to carry privately owned shotguns that pass inspection and if they qualify with them. No officer who showed up with a PG shotgun qualified. After adding a full butt stock all qualified easily. BTW, it's not a demanding course of fire. At this time no one carries a PG shotgun, they realized that accuracy and speed of their hits was more important than compactness.

[Arizona Fusilier]

I have a "PG" (wow, learn something new everyday;) ) on my Benelli M3 with rifle sights. I think on this particular weapon, purpose-built for combat, it does have merit. Mind you, I have several other shotguns sans PG, mostly hunting. The natural "swing", fit, feel, etc.., is proabably what everybody against PGs is thinking about when they express their dismay over the concept. I certainly would not have one on one of my bird guns.

And on a side by side? Sounds downright sacreligious!:eek:

[LSU12ga]

dave,


while i am sure you are an excellent and experienced shotgunner, but i do not think that anyone is doubting that a stock is more accurate, and functional than a pistolgrip, and anyone with a pistolgrip would of course lose at a competition against an experienced shooter with a full stock.


However,

i, and apparantly many like me or there would not be such a market for pg's, think that they can be useful in the given situation. For instance, i need to keep a gun at home becuase i live in an absolute slum. My apartment has very narrow passage ways the largest distance is maybe 20 feet, at the most. some of the doorways and halls are very constricting, and with a full stock i could not manuver well enough around them, trust me, i tried. So i put a pg on my gun, practiced with it, and i might say that im pretty good, not as a good as a stock, but for my tastes good enough.

So, to recap, Pg not as good as a stock, but for some situations, it will suffice.

[rugerdude]

Here's the thing, he wants a PG on a SxS, this means he's gotta cut the stock permanently, so there is no "try it, it only costs a few bucks kinda thing"

And what I don't get is: If you're going to be aiming down the barrel anyway....why not have a full stock? The stock lets you easily keep your sights aligned and when you hold the PG equipped shotgun to where you're looking down the barrel, it isn't anymore compact than a normal stocked SG, only less controlable.

[LSU12ga]

You have a very valid point.


im going to test out the full stokc again. i think the pg will be better for turning corners, and walking with it, it might be the same length, but it can quickly be made shorter, and its lighter.

but you do have a very good point, ill try it out sometime soon.

and isnt a pg on a sxs like a coach gun?

[Dave McC]

Just so nobody is misled, my challenge and antipathy is reserved for stockless shotguns equipped with only a PG and not for the M-16 style of shoulder stock. These I find less useful than a standard stock but usable.

Stockless shotguns have little use in the real world. They turn the most effective CQB tool in the world into an inaccurate, ungainly, hard to control handgun of great power but very limited utility.

If an enemy ever comes after me with a shotgun, I hope and pray his has no stock, only a PG.

As for better handling in tight places, until we get an extra hinge in our forearms, the lack of a stock really doesn't help.

A fighting shotgun with a short LOP stock and a short barrel up to 22" or so is quite manueverable in trained hands.

GlocksRfun, that's how one shoots a stockless shotgun. Holding one up to the shoulder will make either your Orthepedist or Dentist unhappy, though richer.

Miscusi, I've repeated that challenge for nigh onto 10 years. I tired of chest beating macho posers telling new shooters that PGs were what Manly Men use. In that 10 years, not one PG fan was taken up the gauntlet. You'll note that none are now.

I'll repeat that. NO PG only fans are taking up the challenge. Talk's cheap....

Shotguns equipped with just a PG have some limited use as breaching tools. One correspondent of great experience from Alaska uses one as bear medicine but practices lots and understands how to make it work under stress. I still fear for him if a bad tempered half ton of ursus takes umbrage, but he knows what the risks are.

As defensive tools PG only shotguns reek.

LSU12, tooth and nail will suffice sometimes. But using a PG only shotgun is a big step down from a standard shotgun. Do take a standard shotgun for a walk through your domicile(Unloaded of course) and see if and where the stock is a problem. My guess is it isn't.

As for the market for PGs, I know lots of folks who use guns as working tools. State Troopers, Feds of divers agencies, Baltimore narcs, etc. Most have personal shotguns, none have stockless ones. PGs are bought by newbies.

Also, LSU, a coach gun as the term is now used has a stock. The barrels are often short, sometimes the stock is also but it's there.

Most folks will do OK with a stock with a LOP of 12-14". The shorter end preferably. If used with body armor, definitely on the shorter end.

[oletymer]

Dave is right. I would join the challenge. But I think now Dave can see the flaming received for an opinion. Learn to shoot whatever you have and enjoy the experience. Just don't think you will beat him.

[DPris]

Pistolgrip-only stocks look cool, and they can be stored in smaller places. They can also be maneuvered slightly better in very tight confines.
Speaking as a former firearms instructor, I'll say that they are infinitely harder to use well across a broad spectrum. The few guys who tried to qualify with them at department shoots always had the worst times & hit ratios. They were tolerated on personal shotguns if the owner could qualify, never issued, and you cannot , NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIKE THE DAMNED THINGS, achieve the same level of performance as you can with a full-stocked model.
Yes, you can, with practice, improve. But, take it beyond 7 yards, put up multiple targets, use serious buck and/or full-bore slugs, and you'll lose to the guy with a regular stock.
For very close use, firing from a hip, you can achieve a certain level of proficiency that might get the job done. Recoil control and recovery will be more problematic than with the shoulder to act as a recoil barrier, and I find the idea of sighted fire awkward & slow with a PG-only shotgun. It'll certainly be very slow for successive shots, compared to a full-stocked gun. If you've got room to bring it up to eye level, you've got room for a full stock.
At ten feet, with only one shot required, it could do, and if that's your only scenario, go for it.
I choose, after several years of carrying & maneuvering a shotgun through buildings and around them, to not handicap myself. The PG-only shotgun is an extremely limited, and limiting, tool. No professional instructor that I'm aware of advocates them.
As far as getting around corners and down hallways goes, proper carry technique (muzzle down at an angle to the body) allows movement in constricted areas with the ability to get the muzzle up quickly into a firing position either low or high, depending on the space available & time available, for effective repeat fire. You learn the techniques, and the full-stocked version is much more adaptable to a wide range of use than the PG-only stock can ever be.
This is one of those "Don't confuse me with facts" cases. :)
Denis

[ron73644]

All you other guys believe what you want, but as for me, whatever Dave McCracken says about shotguns is "Gospel". If you are smart, you can learn plenty from him. :)

[MarkXIX]

new here, just thought i'd say i like shoulder stocked shotguns and PGs. I intend to own both someday, the PG will not be a HD shotgun, just a fun go out in the woods and shoot stuff gun. I may even just own a Mossberg 500 with a folding stock so i have the best of both worlds.

[dfaugh]

Well, I think there's at least some merit on both sides of the debate.

I have a 20", extended mag Mossberg, with a PG/folding stock combo. Folded its much more maneuverable and handy to store. I've practiced (alot)shooting from the hip, and get most of the shot "on target" at 40-50 ft. (Max distance in my house). Center of pattern may be off some, but by then the shot has spread out enough so there's still a pretty high percentage of hits.

But, unfolding the stock, for aimed fire is much better, if I can.

So, with the stock folded, its OK to check out things that go bump in the night, where I might be surprised, and have to get a shot off quick, but this is unlikely in my situation (If they're in the house they've gotten past 4 German Shepherds, 3 of which would have a bad attitude if anyone "intruded" on their territory. If I really expect I'd need to shoot, I'd unfold the stock first, like if I need to go outside and check the barn/property ('course one dog goes with me then, too).

[ron73644]

Pardon me for expressing this opinion, but I think the PG thing is just a "young man thing". You feel it looks "cool", and you have seen all these "rigged up" shotguns in the movies, and on T.V. As Dave said, it is a "newbie" thing. It actually has nothing to do with efficiency. :)

[silicon wolverine]

I guess ill throw a little gas on the fire too. It all depends on purpose. If you live in a dinky aprtment with 30" wide hallways and 8' square rooms, you DO NOT have room to swing a full stock scattergun and make your shot in a HD situation. I bought a remington 870 Marine magnum specifiaclly to PG and use for HD. Yes it kicks like a mule. yes its not easy to shoot bullseyes with. But then again it someone was in your house would you want to contend with a stock banging into door ways and misc corners when you could hold it in fornt of you at low ready and move normally? I dont. Oh BTW adding a PG on the foreend as well makes it MUCH more manageable. You have two arms to absorb recoil and a more positive grip on the weapon. yes noobs buy PGs cause they look cool. thats thier gig. I have them because they work. Im not saying there is no place for a standard stock on a scattergun but in some cases PGs are just better.

SW

[DPris]

My experience (in a LOT of hallways & small rooms), is that you very certainly CAN maneuver a full-stocked shotgun. There are techniques for doing it.
If you feel you really can't handle a 20-inch shotgun with full stock, you'd be much better off with a collapsible to shorten it slightly, but still provide the shoulder use.

Denis

[ron73644]

You can shorten your shotgun by buying an 18 1/2" bbl. :)

[Edward429451]

I've owned a couple PG shotguns (not pg only) and currantly have a non PG stock SG.

This is my take after shooting all of them in every way imaginable.

PG only sucks and is prolly a young man thing. A PG on a full stock does nothing to detract from efficient use as long as that full (or folding but extended) stock is sucked up tight against your shoulder. A pg on a full stock doesn't really add any extra efficiency either, at least to me.

Conventional stocked SG's have it all in efficiency with none of the hollyweird pizzazz. A short/youth size stock coupled with a short HD barrel is pretty darn compact and kept at low ready doesn't present any unusual limitations in maneuvering inside a house. Yet you can then don a winter coat and a long barrel to go hunting in. Youth sized stocks are great for when you'll be dressed thick.

[GlocksRfun]

Dave,

I think of the close to 1,000 times I've shot my shotgun with pistol grips, I only shoot from the hip when I'm doing some crazy shooting that I am not gonna get into. The magority of the time I shoot it like it would be shot if it had a stock, except I hold it away from my face. I look down the barrel. So, you think a pg'd shotgun can only be fired from the hip? so, you challenge people that shoot at the hip against you shooting normal? lol... Kinda like a midget boxing Mike Tyson. Everyone makes it sound like the recoil is outta control. I can shoot it 1 handed with the pistol grip. The gun is long enough and heavy enough. Granted my hand starts to hurt after a few dozen shots.. haven't shot it since I put the hogue grip on.

[ron73644]

I'm sure Dave would be glad to challenge you anyway you want to hold it.:rolleyes:

[miscusi]

dave even said he'll drive two hours to go to the challenge !

[DPris]

It can be fired with a PG, no question. It cannot be fired as accurately or as rapidly. If neither of those are a criterion, have at it. :) I don't think anybody said it can only be fired from the hip.
Cut the stock off on a leveraction rifle. Can you shoot it from the hip? Yes. Can you hold it up in front of your eyes well enough to hit anything at 25 yards? Maybe. Can you operate it rapidly against multiple targets? No. Can you "make" it mostly work? Yes. Will it run as accurate or as quick as a stocked rifle? No.
Why bother to handicap yourself?
Still, your choice. :)
Denis

[ron73644]

dave even said he'll drive two hours to go to the challenge !

You can count on it.

[SpookBoy]

I used to own a win.1300 defender ,had standard stock and front & rear pg's.Not all that hard with both attached ...Guess its a different generation thing.

[delzo]

>>>The magority of the time I shoot it like it would be shot if it had a stock, except I hold it away from my face. I look down the barrel.<<<

You are one tough dude GlocksRfun! I personally know a guy that tried to hold a PG 12 ga up, so he could sight down the tube, and ended up retiring because of the multiple surgeries to put his jaw back together. I was always scared to try it and gave my Pachmayr pistol grip away to a member of this forum! (hey John, don't try to use it!)

Do you work in the stock-yards choking cows?

[ron73644]

I think he's just macho. ;)

[Dave McC]

A couple things....

If anyone wants to just play with a PGO, that's OK with me. Trouble is, one can have fun with a standard stocked shotgun and get better with it as you have fun.

With a PGO, there isn't much better to get. And I have hundreds if not thousands of rounds fired with folded folding stocks behind me. I doubt any of the PGO fans here have done anything near that.

While one can achieve some level of accuracy through training with a PGO, the same time, effort and ammo would turn most of us deadly if we devoted them to work with a standard shotgun.

Proficiency with a standard shotgun is simple to acquire, though not easy. Get a shotgun that fits, learn the rudiments of good form, and use the lightest loads you can find to shoot with. Next, go shoot. Shoot clays, silohuettes, starlings, landfill rats, steel plates and tin cans. Work on smooth, speed and accuracy will show up as you go.....

[Charles S]

Work on smooth, speed and accuracy will show up as you go.....

Learn from that statement. That is the truth with any firearm rifle, pistol and shotgun.

Charles

[GlocksRfun]

lol, yeah. well put DPris.. It's about the fun factor. I plan on never having to shoot a person. I never got into hunting. I shoot for fun. It's relaxing to me. When my old gateway computer died, I hit it every time with the double PG, and I loved every second of it. I haven't ever competed shooting.... for real anyways. So, we can at least give it a positive for adding fun to plinking, yes? In compition against a normally stocked shotgun, the PG will fail every time. that's fine and makes sense. For hunting, not the greatest idea, unless u wanna add some difficulty, or maybe the anti hunters would like that to give the duck more of a chance:).

My problem with all this is that I read posts that people imply that u are stupid for doing it cause it makes the gun totally inaccurate. That is the untrue part... not as accurate as a stocked gun under rapid fire and/or long ranges, but at close range, less than 50 feet... depending on skill, is an easily hit target. Thus, people wanting it in self defense close range is in the green area. As far as holding a shotgun in confined spaces...

Shooting around a tree when I'm hidden behind it is a lot easier when I have one hand on each pistol grip and swing it around.. kinda sorta.. My Shot gun etiquit? isn't the greatest when I'm up on a friends land.

My final point would be something along the lines of..... If you aren't worried about proper gun etiquat?.. in time of disaster, the PG'd is more nimble and manuverable than a stocked shotgun. Not totally unsafely out of control shooting, I mean cutting angles of muzzle to body and shooting with the gun pushed back so the end of the 18 1/2 barrel is maybe only a couple inches advanced forward from body. As long as the gun doesn't blow up and u stay clear of the powder flying out, the bullet isn't gonna hit you. That would be where the tactical advantage comes in..... A person trained in this field is most likely trained properly and safely to not be stupid enough to shoot like that...

rant complete, for now.


PS, sorry the thread got hijacked

[ron73644]

:rolleyes:

[Sun Tzu]

Bros,

I own 2 Shot guns. An M1 Benneli 12ga w/a stock & PG. And a Winchester speedpump 20ga w/only PG.

I am a paraplegic. So the Speedpump is very useful for carry in my manual wheelchair. W/an 18inch barrel and only a PG its less than 30 inches overall. So it does not interfere w/my chairs tires as I push. I just lay it across my lap. Or I use a carry sling I fashioned myself.

Obviously, any weapon w/a stock, PG or not, will be more accurate at any real distance. Beyond 7 yards in my mind. Honestly, I'd be alot closer.

I have trained hard to control my weapon. I feel confident I can place my 7rounds where I want comfortably. Every weapon should serve a distinct purpose. This is especially true when YOU are disabled. I only own weapons that I can control, clean, use and rely on w/confidence. My Glock 9mm and my speed pump 20ga are all I need to defend the inside of my castle!

Late, S Tzu

[GrowLLLTigeRRR]

I have a Mossberg 12 gauge with a pg at my bedside. It is very handy that way. It ALSO has a top folding stock. I would much rather use it with the stock unfolded and against my shoulder but I have the option of either.

[rhinov]

Somebody a few posts back said that I would have to cut the stock off to put a pistol grip on this gun. Is there no other way. Out of all the shotgun accesories out there on the web,is there not a pistol grip that would fit this gun anywhere. I also knew all the views people have on pistol grips. I have been shooting for years. I hoped that this thread would not turn into won of these pg's are good/no pg's are bad threads. I just wanted help finding a pistol grip for my shotgun.

[LSU12ga]

rhinov

yeah, sorry we thread jacked this.


i think somone mentioned show since its a sxs, the stock does not come off. is this the case? with all the 870's, 500s, and 1300s, the stock just screws on anf off.

so people are tplling you to cut the stock and fashion it to a pistol grip shape.

[DPris]

I am not aware of anybody who makes a pistolgrip for a side by side. There's just not much market.
Doubles are not typically used for defensive purposes (some do, I know), and a pistolgrip removes any practicality for hunting or sporting purposes.
Denis

[rugerdude]

Aye, sorry 'bout the thread drift.

Yes, because of the extremely limited market for PG's on SxS's there are none being made that I know of, and even if they were being made, there's no guarantee that they would fit your gun.

Sorry, but unless you want to cut the stock off, you're outta luck.

[Shawn Dodson]

Shooting targets on the range is one thing.

Shooting at a bad guy(s) who might be as equally determined, or more, to shoot you, is another.