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View Full Version : .308 versus body armor video


expeditionx
April 21, 2006, 12:07 PM
http://media.putfile.com/2ndchancecomp

Syntax360
April 21, 2006, 12:50 PM
Wow - no matter how many times I watch that video, I don't think I would ever have enough confidence to do that. Insane. Good video, thanks!

FirstFreedom
April 21, 2006, 01:37 PM
On that very last shot, he wasn't more than 2 inches from missing the vest to the shooter's right (the shootee's left). Stupid, stupid, stupid.

NedreckSavant
April 21, 2006, 02:02 PM
Did anyone hear the blue shirt bonehead say "I do this for a living". I wanna get to shoot him...*sigh*

Good body armor though, I would really consider purchase after seeing this...

I still can't get over how bad an idea this is...honestly the single stupidest thing I've ever seen. Ever. Can you imagine giving this kind of demonstration at your local range?? And you're right, another inch or two to the right on that last shot...would have been seeing more than 'fluff' flying everywhere.

Superhornet
April 21, 2006, 02:18 PM
That video has been around probably for over twenty years. It actually is part of a weapon and bullet penatration film from the 22lr all the way through 50 cal. Some real good data on bullet performance on car doors, glass, gas tanks and armor. Also shows bullet deflection when firing through different thickness of brush..Video ended with MA-2 firing into car through the door into a bullet proof vest over 1" armor plate...went through it all like it was butter....Last part of film, they put sticks of dynamite under the car....big repair job on car.....

Chaingunner
April 21, 2006, 04:24 PM
Great video!

And if i was the shootee, i woulda smacked that guy hard for coming that close to missing the vest, ha.

9mm_prn
April 21, 2006, 05:56 PM
:eek:

There is no way in hell I'd take any part in that. That guy with the brown vest must have poop for brains. The guys first shot wasn't even close to center and he lets him shoot him again! Don't they know you can learn alot from a dummy?

sammy69
April 21, 2006, 06:45 PM
I have seen dumb stuff but that is the dumbest, most irresponsible thing I have ever seen.

NedreckSavant
April 21, 2006, 06:47 PM
hey superhornet, for the end of the video were the in the car??

And as the producer of that body armor, shouldn't the other guy have let someone shoot at him?

cansniper
April 21, 2006, 07:47 PM
This is simply asking for trouble...:eek:

CobrayCommando
April 21, 2006, 07:58 PM
What is the name of that video, it sounds like a good buy.

leadcounsel
April 21, 2006, 08:30 PM
consent is no defense for murder. if the shootee died then the shooter would go to prison for murder. a lose-lose situation. why don't they just demonstrate on a dummy?

but, impressive results to say the least.

VUPDblue
April 21, 2006, 09:17 PM
Good thing I didn't leave any of that steel-core lying around...:rolleyes:

chemist308
April 21, 2006, 09:54 PM
I still don't believe what I just watched...
*Would the soft vest have left the guy hit in the gut with a 44mag with some internal injuries? And no, I'm not buying that a couple magazines sufficiently take the force of the bullet.
*Even with a metal plate backing in the vest, wouldn't a 308 at least cause enough pain to make the fellow hit not want to do it again?

I once saw a video where a TV reporter tried something along these lines. Basically he wore a soft vest and allowed somebody to shoot him with a 22 pistol. Although the bullet didn't penetrate the vest he yelled in pain and doubled over feeling at the spot of the impact. Most of what came out of his mouth after that got sensored because he wasn't happy about his experience and somehow thought it wasn't supposed to hurt. I somehow imagined that if that dimwit had tried with a 357 he would have a cracked sternum and/or ribs, or if it hit lower he would have had ruptured organs. Correct me if I'm wrong here...

expeditionx
April 21, 2006, 10:01 PM
That video sure disproves myths. Some years ago someone I knew tried to tell me that a .38 special has enough force to knock down a man wearing body armor. The Hollywood bank robbery video and this one
proves otherwise. I also met a cop that had lived through a .357 full power load fired into his level 3 vest. He said it stung him, but it did not incapcitate him. The plates would have reduced the stinging effect dramatically if he could have used them.

Energy imparted by a bullet or shot shell load is not enough to knock someone down. No surprise.
The only thing firearm projectiles do is destroy tissue by stabbing
with or without expansion. The main advantage of the higher speed with rifle bullets is the impact will move tissue out of the way fast enough to liquify a permanent channel.

Minator
April 21, 2006, 11:46 PM
Lol looks like im the only one who is going to comment on the idiot pumping 2 44 rounds into the ground by his feet.

p99guy
April 22, 2006, 12:25 AM
that vid is over 20 years old....and the "Idiot" is Rich Davis, Founder Of Second Chance Body Armor...who has been shot more than any man still alive and breathing. the purpose of the two rounds into the ground was to demo that he could still return fire after being hit with .44mag pistol fire on the vest.

the name of the training tape was "Deadly weapons", and there was a part two called "Deadly Effects,what bullets do to bodies"

Nicotine
April 22, 2006, 01:18 AM
its **** like that that makes people think gun people are goofy, stupid, rednecks.

prime8
April 22, 2006, 03:00 PM
2 Marines arguing outside of the chow hall, about a bayonette's abuility to penetrate a flak jacket.. I ate chow, and outside idiot #1, stabbed, idiot #2 through the flak jacket!! Both were charged with destruction of govt property......lol These guys musta been thier fathers....lol :D

MadMax2012
April 22, 2006, 05:13 PM
Chemist308,

I remember that reporter being shot with the .22lr.

Maybe you will remember one more detail though. The reporter held the bullet proof vest up in front of him with his hand and away from his body maybe 4 or 5"s.

Yeah... I bet that hurt. He's lucky it wasn't a .357.

444
April 22, 2006, 05:34 PM
I first saw that video in the early eighties.
Davis did that demonstration where he shoots himself in with a .44 mag hundreds of times at law enforcement conventions, on stage.
He invented the product (Second Chance Body Armor) and had total confidence in it. As a result of his product and his demonstrations, hundreds and possibly thousands of police officers are alive today.
He also sponsered a really big bowling pin shoot every year: world famous.

Several years ago, it was discovered that the thread used in those vests broke down with age. It was determined that this would make the vests less effective. So, the lawyers ruined Davis and Second Chance. This was within the last couple years. They said that Davis never told anyone about this defect. Of course the fact that he didn't know about it didn't matter to the lawyers.

p99guy
April 22, 2006, 06:04 PM
444 that was "ZYLON" fabric vests that were not holding up in hot/humid conditions....second chance was not the only maker to use ZYLON in some models and Kevlar in others.....second chance has reorganized and is still in business. The company in Japan that makes ZYLON just had to pay out a 29 million dollar court settlement with all owners of vests made of ZYLON.
I just got a check for 730.00 out of this fund, this week.

Lazy D
April 22, 2006, 06:19 PM
Talk about a Darwin Award Nominee.

444
April 22, 2006, 06:22 PM
p99guy, I stand corrected. I read that information and passed it along with out verifying it. My apologies.

I wonder why, if this is so dangerous, he did it hundreds if not thousands of times without incident ? But, I guess that would require some thought.

Lazy D
April 22, 2006, 07:44 PM
Actually the failures were not do to any break downs in fabric. The failures were a result of the quilting that holds all the layers together. It was determined that IF during the quilting process a stich were to hit the same hole of another stich it created a weak spot. Then, if a bullet werte to strike that spot it could potentially penitrate the vest. This was the explanation for the failures of the "Ultima" vest from Second Chance. Now do I believe it? I'm not buying all of it. I was issued an Ultima and when I picked it up, it was unbelievable how light it was. It really felt unsafe. It was like not wearing vest at all. Once this all hit the fan the sent us a "Performance Pak" Once that was added to the vest it was stiffer and heavier than my last one. They have now replaced all the ones we had. The next ones we issue will be a level 3. :rolleyes:

NedreckSavant
April 22, 2006, 07:46 PM
So what made his vest different from every other vest out there anyway?

444
April 23, 2006, 04:20 PM
I probably should just keep my mouth shut since I obviously don't know what I am talking about, but since no one answered your question for a couple days............
My understanding is that way back then, body armor wasn't anywhere near as common as it is today. The whole concept of practical, somewhat comfortable, concealable body armor was in it's infancy. I am not sure there was any other company making body armor.
As was mentioned, that video is at least 20 years old.