Internal laser sights vs. external

[ddangle]

I was curious as to thoughts on the recoild spring lasers vs. those mounted on the external rails. I was also hoping to locate an internal for my HK USP compact 9mm.

[Mikeyboy]

Internal laser sights are more expensive, and for the most part will not change the outside appearance or shape of your firearm. External sights are cheaper, and most of the time your going to have issues with holster fit, but some external laser companies sell holsters that will include space for their brand sight. If you carry your weapon a lot, invest in an internal laser sight

[Puppy]

Crimson Laser Grips are hard to beat, they require no special holsters and can be easily zero'd due to them having windage & elevation adjustments.

[yorec]

I prefer the internal style with fewer edges to catch stuff on... But they're bukoo bucks!

Crimsontrace grips are a happy medium between internal/external.

[bclark1]

i like my lasermax internal, i just wish i could get longer battery life. the crimson trace never appealed to me, if i was getting an external i'd want a rail module. i only want to be messing with one axis of deviation from the bullet's trajectory if i can help it.

[stephen426]

Puppy,

What is your experience with the Crimson Trace Grip Lasers? I was under the impression that they would have parallax error at varying distances since the laser is not in line with the bore. For close quarters "combat" distances, it doesn't matter but how much variance do you get at greater distances? There would be an issue with elevation and windage since the laser comes out of the side of the gun and is below the bore axis.

I was seriously considering the Laser Max spring guide rod replacement for my Glock 26 since there would be no external chnages to the gun at all. I know the spring guide rod is lower than the bore but only slightly and directly in line with the bore. I guess that is why most of them don't have any adjustability. I would never use an external laser that mounts to the trigger guard or one that sits on slide mounted rails. It is just too cumbersome in my opinion. Maybe I could use such a laser for home defense or at the range for kicks but nothing else.

The reason I am even considering a laser is the "intimidation factor". If I can subdue the bad guy and hold him until the calvary comes, I feel it would be preferable to simply shooting him. Don't get me wrong now... If the bad guy is an active threat, I will shoot without hesitation. If I get the "jump" on him and can point the weapon from cover, the bad guy may surrender without shots fired. I think even with justified shootings, there is always a lot of hassles involved. There will be an investigation from the police and the family of the deceased (assuming you kill the bad guy) will sue for wrongful death despite the fact he probably would have killed you without any hesitation. Please share any opinions on this point of view.

[Minator]

internal lasers no matter what is said throws accuracy off by a large margin at longer ranges dont ask me why but ive seen it in glocks and in some 1911's when we put the normal rod back in it goes back to normal groupings

[stephen426]

Minator,

I don't know how it would affect it. I thought precision was more a matter of how tight the slide fits to the rails and how consistantly the barrely locks up with the slide. Maybe the replacement guide rod affects how the spring stacks up. Who knows. Thanks for the info though.

[Minator]

yeah we found some at the gunshops down here and they had a 30 day return policy so the guy let us try them and I was surpised it affected the 1911 due to some of them have 2 peice guide rods, but 400 dollars is alot to waste for some but if you find a shop that will let you try it out or if you get it let me know how the HK reacted. I have 2 of them and I still havent done any thing other then put on trijicon nightsites

[Puppy]

Stephen,

It doesnt matter if the sighting device is under the barrel, on top of the barrel or along side of the barrel.

Its not going to be an exact trajectory match unless the laser is inserted directly into the barrel (as in a bore alignment laser).

So like any other sighting device they need to be zerod for which ever distance you intend to be using that sighting device at.

I have mine zerod for 7 yards.

With that said its about an inch off when it comes to POA vs POI (point of aim vs point of impact) @ 50 yards, my failing eyesight wont let me see the dot any farther than that in daylight but I would imagine the farther out it goes the more pronounced the error would be.

But that isnt bad at all.

But yes putting a red dot on someone is very intimidating, and they are much more likely to obey your commands when they see that red dot smack dab in the middle of their chest.

Another advantage is the vast reduction of the "tunnel vision" you develop when holding someone at gunpoint using iron sights.

This was invaluable during our home invasion in which the guy I had at gunpoint kept calling for his buddy to come help him (whom I couldnt see, but was real antsy about where he was).

I might have just shot the first one so I could keep my eye out for the second one had it not been for the fact I could keep the first guy in my perhiprial vision (I could still see my the dot on him) while quickly scanning my surroundings keeping my eyes open for his buddy.

So anyway, regardless of where the laser is mounted you will need to zero it if it has windage & elevation adjustments, its much easier to dial in simply because you can set it to where ever you want that zero to be.

If it doesnt have windage & elevation adjustments (some internals dont) you will have to find where its zero'ing at, simply activate the laser while looking down your sights at various ranges until you get a good idea of where it will be shooting.

Hope this helped.

[stephen426]

Thanks Puppy. I knew there would be some parallax error but I guess the amount is negligable. I'm just picky I guess. At 50 yards, 1 inch of variance is more than acceptable. I'm just suprised that it is so little. Maybe that is a more economical route compared to the Laser Max.

[Alex_L]

Stephen426
I totally agree with you that it's better to subdue BG than to kill him. Not only because of investigations and courts, but mainly because it's the right thing to do.
But I'm not so sure that the laser beam is so intimidating. Yea it impress in movies. But if your BG is really b-a-d he can just laugh at it. And if he is plainly stupid (which is more likely case), he will not understand it at all. And you must remember to switch the device on :)
What is intimidating for sure is a shot in the air over his head. Additional benefit: doing this, you simultaneously put your weapon from DA to SA mode :) Oh yes, you have Glock...:rolleyes:

[stephen426]

Alex,

Another advantage of having a laser is improved shot placement (assuming you have good trigger control and your sight is properly aligned). If the bad guy laughs at the laser dot, I doublt he will laugh if I follow it up with a double tap to the chest and a head shot if necessary. I think even bad guys will acknowledge there is a lesser chance of missing with a laser, especially if it is already between his eyes or on his chest.

Sending a shot over the bad guys head may be intimidating but I can't bring myself to shoot without knowing what lies beyond my target.

As for my Glock, I'm not sure what the :rolleyes: smiley is saying. I love the fact that the trigger pull is the same for the first shot to the last with the Safe Action. That is why I switched from my Sig to the Glock. Besides, it is smaller and lighter too! I'll just be sure not to use it to pistol whip someone. I'll bring my 6" stainless steel Ruger GP100 for that! :D :p

[Webleymkv]

I will never fully depend on a laser sight of any kind. This being the case, an unobtrusive laser sight such as an internal model or laser grip combined with a good old fashioned set of irons would be my choice.

[GlocksRfun]

I got my Lasermax over 2 years ago for my G21. At first I went through a lot of batteries just playing with it. I found out that my dog is really a cat. anyways, I love it. When I first got it, I didn't think it was that accurate, but once I learned to shoot the new gun also, I found it to be accurate. about 20 feet, dead on. At 50 feet, gotta aim an inch or so high. that's indoors. But I can rapid shoot fast aiming only with laser and all bullets hit target. I have a lot of confidence in that laser. Did I mention it's fun to play with?. My only beef is that the spring it comes with, I think, is weak. I called Lasermax and talked to a guy. He said it's the same poundage spring and sent me some free stuff(battery caps). I can see some beating is beeing done to Glock frame. Nothing will beat a normal Glock spring. I am weary to shoot a bunch of +p loads with that spring, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so in an emergancy. I should probably get a new one. Overall I love it. I payed $300 for the record. Put it on the credit card, so after intrest, I probably paid $1000 oops, another beef, i guess, would be that it flashes a little to slowly i think. They say it better for quick target acquisition. But when it's not moving u can see it blinking. I think that if it looked solid/sonsistantly one while still and only flashed while moving would be a little batter. But I got used to it and really couldn't care anymore.