Custom handgun...sniper rifle...take your pick!

[H&K4Life]

I was just looking at the Wilson Combat catalog. Ohdeargawd, I think I want every 1911 in the company!...However, the $3k pricetag is just tooooooooooooooooooooooooo much to swallow.

Yeah, it sounds like I need some major enlightenment in regards to "custom" handguns.

What exactly do these pistols have (that production ones don't) to merit a $3k pricetag? Keep in mind that I have never seen up close, or fired one of these fine pieaces of art. I am just hoping there is someone out there with mondo experience in this "art" to give me a warm and fuzzy that these pistols would be a good buy....

[moredes]

Well, hell, nobody's answered you so I'll take a whack at it. My first suggestion is that you go here

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/index.php

and search the archives for problem threads involving Ed Browns, Wilsons, Springfield Arms, Kimber, Baer, etc.

It's my opinion that Wilson stands by their "lifetime" warranty better than most of the field except maybe Brown. (dunno for sure--never had to test Brown's warranty) I've had personal experience with each of the other 4 OEMs I named, and in descending order, I rate their service as they were written in that order. Of all the guns from those brands I've owned, Baer is the only manufacturer whose 'service' I gave up on. My case is not that rare, though a lot of Baer devotees will say my patience was short and skewed. They're happy with their purchase, I was not.

Wilson's unofficial 'lifetime guarantee' follows the gun, not the owner--that is to say, the gun is guaranteed forever. In fact, there's a thread I read with curiousity because the second owner required warranty work and got it, (http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130852) as did I (twice) with two different used Wilsons. Some folks have had troubles with Wilson's service, too, but from my readings, I think the number of dissatisfied Wilson customers are fewer when compared to the rest of the field.

All that aside, if you should find a completely reliable, cosmetically acceptable 1911 (or clone) made by Baer, Brown, or Wilson (especially their 'flagship' guns), I think there is little difference to chose from. In my opinion, though, you're *much* more likely to be ecstatic with your purchase out of the box with an Ed Brown over the other two. I think most would agree with me that Brown's guns are just a little better finished (and I mean just a hair) than comparably classed guns from Wilson. I happen to think for caviar tastes, Brown is the best "deal", money vs. function and cosmetics. Wilsons and Browns are detailed and just as pretty inside, too. Wilson is a half-step behind (cosmetically), and in my mind the thing that distinguishes both the Wilson and Brown over the Baer is the better liklihood that I will be completely satisfied right out of the box with a Wilson or Brown; there is no 'break-in' period claimed by either OEM. Baers may be the "best bang for the buck" as their devotees claim, but Baer policy is that the customer spend the (possible) hundreds of dollars in OEM ammunition to break in a 'defective' production line gun, if indeed there are initial break-in problems. Aside from the minor cosmetic discrepancies and hit or miss customer service, this is the only other factor-- the possibility of break-in "cost and aggravation", when buying a Baer.

Baer CS will commonly stall a customer requesting service on a brand new gun, claiming they need 'breaking in', which amounts to shooting somewhere between 500-1500 rounds of factory ammo depending on whom you speak to in CS. That's not to say the majority of Baers are problem-ridden--but a higher percentile seem to need early attention. Part of that might be caused by the company philosophy that a tight gun offers better accuracy. Baer's slide to frame fit is legendary for it's tightness (as is the barrel bushing to slide fit); lots of folks claim they "need more muscle" to rack the new Baers. (I didn't find that the case with the LB Premier II I owned for short time.) Wilsons and Browns are tight in the sense that there is no rattle; they feel like the slide/frame fit is 'on rails' without your needing to go through a break-in procedure. The BIG 3 all guarantee accuracy at ~1.5" at 25yd, and ~2-3" at 50yd; if you can shoot that, maybe it's something to be concerned about. Most of your Kimbers, Springfields, Colts, etc. don't come with that kind of accuracy guaranteed.

give me a warm and fuzzy that these pistols would be a good buy..

Not me. They are not; that's like the old salesman's claim that a "wedding ring is a good investment." Neither the Wilson nor the wedding ring is bought with an eye towards financial appreciation; in most cases, the specimens are just like new cars--as soon as they leave the showroom in someone's possession, they loose at least 10% value in 2 seconds.

Back to my explanation of warranty service, I should make one thing clear--I've never dealt with Brown. I don't know what their policy is on used guns (and I've heard that Ed can sometimes be a real pill). I was completely dissatisfied with Baer, and bailed out on the gun and never went back, and I don't know what Baer's used-gun warranty is, either. HOWEVER, I know of 4 cases where Wilson serviced a used gun for a second owner to that owner's satisfaction (at no charge except shipping)... and so my advice-- look for a used Wilson at ~25% (or deeper) discount, if you want "a warm and fuzzy that these pistols would be a good buy." If you have the patience, and are willing to buy across the 'net, you can find deals out there; it may take 2-6 months, but consider the money you save (in the hundreds) your X months' bonus. (Sure, some folks'll claim "used" ain't worth the aggravation, but my used $1200 Kobra Carry and my $1800 Super Grade were my only way into the 'big time' at the time.)

In the end, the majority of Baer vs. Wilson problems cause/result in that brand's loyalty, and as most will agree, is more akin to a Ford vs. Chevy issue, with Brown kinda like the Cadillac, just 'watchin' the proceedings'.

You say you've never seen or held one of "these fine pieced of art"--from my experiences handling and shooting the Top 3, it's kind of like comparing a Rolls Royce (yes, I've ridden in one, and driven one) to a Mercedes to a Chevy truck. They'll all get you there when they're runnin' well. Some look 'way prettier just parked, too, though. Slam the doors on them, and you can feel the difference.

Just a thought... a whole 'nother "can of worms"-- Nighthawk has an up and coming reputation, too. Fledglings, from most reports they're a buncha Wilson Combat refugee employees. You might wanna give them a look, too, but I'd stand by my "used Wilson" advice.

Sorry this is so long-winded, but I don't think one can talk about "$3K pricetag(s)" and limit the discussion to only Wilsons.

[dave0520]

Have you looked at Nighthawk Custom yet? They make some really beautiful guns, but they don't cost quite so much as Wilsons and Browns. I have never heard a bad thing about them, and I am definitely getting one of them someday.

[H&K4Life]

Moredes,

Thanks for the info, it was some good reading. It looks like I am going to give the Nighthawk guys a looksie.

I had to come to the realization that I actually have TOOOO MANY HANDGUNS!. I almost have too of every caliber...that may be excessive even for the TFL.

As far as high-end/med-end 1911s go, I max out, in the beauty department, with the Kimber Classic Gold Match. Man, that thing is so easy to shoot, I feel guilty using it. I have a SPRINGFIELD that is almost a sniper pistol also, so I figure I'll retire these two for the Bently of 1911's.....since they are so damn pretty!!

[toast]

If 'retire' means selling the kimber and springfield I would suggest not doing it. Just from what little you wrote you seem to really like them. Replacing them with a wilson etc. may not increase you pleasure enough to not regret selling them. Sell something else, or buy the custom with cash, that way if it does live up to your expectations you can sell the others later. If it doesn't wow you, you dont have to regret giving up pistols you apparently enjoy.

[tex45acp]

H&K4Life,

First, I have 2 Wilsons, a CQB fullsize & CQB compact. They are worth every penny in function, accuracy and asthetics. Cycling the slide is like rubbing two pieces of flat glass together with slick 50 between them. You can't even feel the metal to metal contact. The accuracy potential for these guns is phenominal with the shooter doing everything right. Mine will feed, without any failures, anything I can get into the magazine.

I have the same catalog and just about passed out when I saw the prices. I found a dealer that sells and maintains a decent stock of them. I bought both guns for about 25% less than the catalog prices......and actually got to handle, fondle, drool.......I digress, handle them before purchase and then take them home once the check had been signed. You can also find them at great prices and in stock through www.gunsamerica.com and www.gunbroker.com.

I too "retired" some other guns I really liked for the undescribable pleasure of owning a couple of Wilsons. I have no regrets!!!
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16272&stc=1&d=1134419064

[Gib]

Have you thought of building your own custom 1911. There are many fine gunsmiths out there that would build it to your likes and dislikes of the 1911. Caspian frame and slide, Bar-sto barrel, Wilson trigger and sear... the list goes on and on. You could build a great gun and stay well below the $3000 dollar mark.
-Gib

[H&K4Life]

I went to NightHawk custom, and started foaming at the mouth. It looked just like Wilson Combat...-$1500.

I actually see one of these beauties that would fit nicely in my collection. However, I keep seeing references to modifications for California... (why must I still live in this state)

What does an Arkansas custom gun have that a California one can not?