Gun in the shower paranoid? [Archive] - The Firing Line Forums

N.H. Yankee

September 25, 2005, 08:08 AM

You never know when a Gangsta Rapper might ambush you in the crapper, sorry it popped in my head and I had to say it. I have a large aggressive dog and a small yapper. I have never yet been surprised by someone getting even close to the door and usually get a warning when they are in the driveway on foot. I live where there is a part time P.D. and one is usually left to their own devices. I have firearms strategically placed within the house and if taking a bath or shower will have one on the window sill next to the tub in arms reach. I also advocate if really worried LOCKING the door for that extra moment toward response, most inner doorknobs are easily breached.

I think some who live in a very crime infested area especially woman should perhaps have a deadbolt installed on the bathroom door and bring in their cell phone also, especially if not willing to buy a weapon and use it. We will never be 100% crime proof but some so called paranoia will go a long way in keeping one from being a victim. Paranoid is all in ones opinion and at times is derived from experience's in life. I would rather be paranoid and alive than macho and dead.

Velocity226

September 25, 2005, 08:49 AM

Keeping a gun within arms reach at all times is not paranoid.

IZinterrogator

September 25, 2005, 09:07 AM

of course we have barred the bathroom window and used razor wire in both the sink and the shower to prevent subterranean attack...Better get some more razor wire, Wild. Might infiltrate through the toilet, you know. :p

LiveWire

September 25, 2005, 09:29 AM

How many folks with an alarm system actually turn it on when they're in the shower or otherwise indisposed (sleeping, sick, etc.)?I do. Religiously. 24/7.

Except when I have to get in or out, of course.

TheeBadOne

September 25, 2005, 01:32 PM

Bow-wow

https://securewsch01.websitecomplete.com/storealeca/images/Img12.jpg

Dre_sa

September 25, 2005, 03:11 PM

my .45 goes with me everywhere.
while showering there is a window sill (ledge) that is in easy reach for me but not from someone outside reching in. i out a layer of TP over it to absorb moisture (thts the only part i consider paranoia, my baby boy gettin wet) ;)

Glenn E. Meyer

September 25, 2005, 03:21 PM

Anybody remember the cartoon in American Handgunner about guns for every room. It was a takeoff of an article by Ayoob about guns for every season.

It had a fat commando dude with a shower cap, guns and ammo hanging over his naked body. Funny.

There was later some letters that were angry about making fun of serious business.

Lock the bathroom door and gun nearby but not in the shower. Also, take a class on Soap-on-Rope-Fu. Or Philippino towel snap lethal techniques.

jsp98m3

September 25, 2005, 03:24 PM

Why not claymores and laser triggering?

6 women in the shower? What is that statistically? Many women will candidly tell you that they believe that a man's entire purpose is to be two legs to carry a penis around. Sometimes I think that there are people who feel their purpose is to be two legs that carry their pistol around.

I've been on this forum for just a few short days and already I've been amazed at the religious nature of CC. Showers? Finding ways to carry at the beach?

Again, 6 women in a shower? What is the statistical significance? From a personal protection standpoint, it would be more prudent to constantly carry a wide variety of anti-venom kits for all known species of snakes and insects and wear a lightning rod on your head and drag a grounding strap behind you.

Its even perfectly legal to do so without a special permit :)

The gun should enhance your life with the minimum impact on said life. I get the distinct impression that many people consider their life subserviant to carrying that gun around.

I own guns, they don't own me.

USP45usp

September 25, 2005, 03:36 PM

I'm actually surprised that so many people here think that life is a game of Tag. There is no "home" or safe place that you can run to and not be tagged and then "you're it".

Or worse, you're dead.

Why is it such a "paranoid" concept to carry in the bathroom? Is it some how a "safe place" that no harm can be done to you and you're safe as long as you're there?

Crime happens, it's a point of life. And it happens anywhere, anyplace, there is no "home" or "safe place" that you can run and you can't be tagged.

Wayne

Ingram

September 25, 2005, 04:02 PM

If I was a women I would carry everywhere even in the shower. Being a white male I don't think there has ever been a case of being attacked in the shower when there wasn't a prior a percieved threat. So no.

Dwight55

September 25, 2005, 04:10 PM

If my wife or son are home when I shower (at least one is there about 99% of the time), I do not take my 1911 in the bathroom with me.

During the extra 1%, . . . it is more or less in the same room as I am in, . . . all the time. Bathroom, . . . kitchen, . . . shop, . . . bedroom, . . . front porch, . . . wherever.

If that qualifies, . . . go ahead, . . . when you get to my picture in your coloring book, . . . do me in paranoid, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

jsp98m3

September 25, 2005, 04:18 PM

Wayne,

In my case, I just feel that if you can't take a 2 minute shower (what it takes me) without having a gun instantly available, that maybe you shouldn't sleep, go swimming, make love, or get baptized without a gun strapped on either. Maybe there are some people here that do all of the above.

But generally, I think that unless you are an albino living in Watts or Highland Park Michigan, you probably aren't in constant and immediate danger of getting killed.

Even people in Kosovo and Baghdad generally manage to take a shower without a holster for the other "7.68".

So my vote goes for either extreme paranoia of a life threatening event statistically below getting stung to death by bees or hit by lightning or the "I live my life for my gun" scenario. If concern for your life is that high, then my tongue in cheek comments about wearing a lightning rod might be applicable. Moving your residence to the Vatican might also be a good idea.

All in all, this thread reminds me of the Monty Python self defense parodies. Go ahead, attack me with a banana :)

Marko Kloos

September 25, 2005, 04:18 PM

We have four dachsies that constitute an excellent early-warning system, so I don't take the gun into the shower. It does, however, sit on the bathroom counter.

When I am staying in hotels, the gun comes into the shower with me, no question about it. You're naked, deaf and blind while in the shower, especially in an environment where you don't solely control access to the place.

jsp98m3

September 25, 2005, 04:23 PM

JohnKSa

September 25, 2005, 09:25 PM

because I don't think it will happen to me.Who does? That's got to be one of the most common, if not THE most common responses that victims have. "I never thought it could/would happen to me/us."6 women in the shower? What is that statistically? Statistically it's nothing. I never implied it was. The point was that criminals will pick times to attack when we are vulnerable. People who fail to understand that are far more likely to end up as victims. And, once again. I'm not saying that everyone should have a gun in the shower--it was a catchy and applicable title to the thread.

The point was that criminals like to attack when people are vulnerable and yet, in spite of documented evidence that this is so, there are many people who denigrate those who try to limit their vulnerability. You are one of those people so it's not surprising that you're not getting it.

23Skidoo

September 26, 2005, 08:20 AM

The point was that criminals like to attack when people are vulnerable and yet, in spite of documented evidence that this is so, there are many people who denigrate those who try to limit their vulnerability. You are one of those people so it's not surprising that you're not getting it.

Everyone is more vulnerable some times than others. Virtually all the time it makes no difference at all. Where it does make a difference is in situations of heightened danger, at night in an unfamiliar part of town for example. But living your life in a state of siege is not an option for most people. There are reasonable precautions for people in different circumstances. There are unreasonable precautions.

Derius_T

September 26, 2005, 11:24 AM

Jsp98m3 Wrote:

In my case, I just feel that if you can't take a 2 minute shower (what it takes me) without having a gun instantly available, that maybe you shouldn't sleep, go swimming, make love, or get baptized without a gun strapped on either. Maybe there are some people here that do all of the above. But generally, I think that unless you are an albino living in Watts or Highland Park Michigan, you probably aren't in constant and immediate danger of getting killed. Even people in Kosovo and Baghdad generally manage to take a shower without a holster for the other "7.68". So my vote goes for either extreme paranoia of a life threatening event statistically below getting stung to death by bees or hit by lightning or the "I live my life for my gun" scenario. If concern for your life is that high, then my tongue in cheek comments about wearing a lightning rod might be applicable. Moving your residence to the Vatican might also be a good idea. All in all, this thread reminds me of the Monty Python self defense parodies. Go ahead, attack me with a banana

I know that you think you are being witty, but you take things a bit far I think. Is it paranoid to have ready access to a firearm at all times, or is it prudent in the world we live in today? What is wrong with having a firarm or some other object to protect onesself within arms reach at all times? Whats wrong with always being PREPAIRED? It is better to have and not need, than to need an not have. Even if statistics show that I have less than a 1% chance of being attacked in my own home, I refuse to stake my like on that 1%. As for lightning, nothing I can do about that, so I don't worry about it. But I can do something about being defenseless, so I do.

PS: I live in San Diego County. Most of the armed people in this county are cops and a very high percentage of the unprovoked shootings are done by the cops. Maybe we should all draw on them here. Percentage wise, they ARE the most categorizeable group of likely killers.

That is a stupid statement period. That you would even SUGGEST drawing a gun on a police officer should be grounds for removal from this forum. Even in jest, that is not a subject I think ANYONE here at TFL will agree with.

You are entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but there are enough cops killed everyday, without some jackass making light of it.

Trip20

September 26, 2005, 11:31 AM

Garand Illusion

September 26, 2005, 11:32 AM

This thread has inspired me to a new product -- Glock On a Rope! Perfect for that shower situation.

To the guy who leaves it on the bathroom counter -- while you're in there showering and don't know what's happening outside the door, you've just left a weapon out for the BG to shoot through the shower door with.

In my case, I just feel that if you can't take a 2 minute shower (what it takes me) without having a gun instantly available, that maybe you shouldn't sleep, go swimming, make love, or get baptized without a gun strapped on either. Maybe there are some people here that do all of the above.

If I had a mafia hit man after me ... I just might do all of the above while armed.

If not ... the best thing to get is an early warning system so that you have time to recognize the threat and acquire a firearm instead of doing a fast draw from a plastic shoulder holster and trying to identify your target with shampoo in your eyes.

Self installed motion detectors are pretty cheap. Dogs are pretty cheap as well, and have the added benefit of being able to fetch a frisbee.

Para Bellum

September 26, 2005, 11:36 AM

Gun in the shower is pretty paranoid
Either a gun is paranoid everywhere or nowhere. I used to think a gun in my office were paranoid. So I used to lock it up in a safe after entering my office.

Then a maniac stabbed a business-partner of mine in the head many times until the blade broke to pieces. My partner survived with lots of luck and lots of sugery. I don't think it's paranoid to actually carry 24/7.

The good thing about my bathroom is that I can lock it up.

claude783

September 26, 2005, 11:58 AM

Normally, don't carry a weapon in the house. I have one in the bed room, and on occasion when I have worked the night shift, and family is out of the house, I might put the toilet seat down, lay a gun on it, then drap my towel over it...I also have the house alarmed and have the system turned on, so might have a little warning if someone were to come into my house while in the shower...sometimes when I'm out back in the hot tub, will also lay a gun down and drap a towel over it...

Pointer

September 26, 2005, 01:17 PM

I'm in favor of every single woman having a dead, or slide-bolt on the bathroom door.

Take gun to bathroom... bolt door... take shower. :)

In big cities like New York, almost everybody has multiple security devices on their apartment doors...

Not paranoid... :eek:

Given the times... it's just prudent. ;)

leadcounsel

September 26, 2005, 01:53 PM

At first I thought this is a tough call.... but with some thought I'll have to vote for NOT paranoid. For a man or a woman, I think it's prudent. I think women are 1) more physically vulnerable to rapes and beatings and 2) more prone to aggressive stalkers. As a man I'm "less" likely to be attacked, raped, or beaten in my home or shower. However, I do carry MOST of the time in my home or at least have a gun within 10' at all times.

I have a dog that would probably bark, but might also not bark so he's unreliable.

I've considered a gun in the shower but don't currently because of moisture issues and laziness. Occassionally I'll set my gun (along with wallet, keys, phone, etc.) on the counter in the bathroom while I'm taking a shower and lock the door to the bathroom. I like the gun between the towels idea posted above because I can reach that in about 1 second and it won't get very moist if folded between two towels. I'll start doing that today.

If you think about the WORST possible place to be faced with a BG it would be in the shower. You would be completely relaxed and taken by suprise. You would be standing there, naked, on a slippery surface. In essense, you would be completely helpless -- no weapon, no phone, no protective clothing, and no place to retreat. And, your naked dead body would be a gruesome sight! Not the way I want to be killed.

Velocity226

September 26, 2005, 02:51 PM

I'm not paranoid. I keep one of THESE (http://www.hkpro.com/peleven.htm) in my shower. :D

Bobshouse

September 26, 2005, 03:19 PM

Good Ol'Hitchcock....the bathroom scene...got us all didn't it? Love the Glock on a Rope idea...have you got a patent yet?

Just bring this up, cause in reality it could be any room, but being the bathroom, it catches everyone at their most vunerable moment...neekid, in the shower.

For all those who take their weapons into the bathroom during their shower, how do you prevent rust damage to the internals from steam? (notice, I distinctly said "weapons" and not "guns". :D ..)

jcoiii

September 26, 2005, 05:10 PM

There is always a pistol in my bathroom, simply because this is the place my wife would go to in case of a home invader. I stay in the bedroom covering the entry, she moves to the bathroom, grabs the pistol, waits for the all clear.

jsp98m3

September 26, 2005, 05:55 PM

That is a stupid statement period. That you would even SUGGEST drawing a gun on a police officer should be grounds for removal from this forum. Even in jest, that is not a subject I think ANYONE here at TFL will agree with.

Its not stupid. It's idiotic, on the verge of moronic. But if I went by statistics, I'd have to take LEO as my numero uno threat to life and limb from attack with a deadly weapon.

I'm not trying to be cute or clever. I'm trying to get you to peek out of the bunker :)

wayneinFL

September 26, 2005, 06:10 PM

PS: I live in San Diego County. Most of the armed people in this county are cops and a very high percentage of the unprovoked shootings are done by the cops. Maybe we should all draw on them here. Percentage wise, they ARE the most categorizeable group of likely killers.
If someone's that paranoid about cops, and calls me paranoid, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

"because I don't think it will happen to me."
Who does? That's got to be one of the most common, if not THE most common responses that victims have. "I never thought it could/would happen to me/us."
Actually JKS, even though I don't think it will happen to me I still keep a gun around. I just didn't want anyone to think I was paranoid. :o

I have my carry piece on me at home. IMO, the safest place to have a ready gun in a house full of kids is on me. All other guns are locked up and ammo locked up in a separate cabinet. When I'm in the shower, it's dry, but close enough to be in my control.

Am I paranoid? To compare I am 99.99999% sure I'll never have a fire in my house. Yet, I have four fire extinguishers in the house... Make that three. My two year old AD'ed one in the kitchen. Still most likely three more than I'll ever need. Paranoid? Maybe deep down, I'm a wannabe fireman. :D

enidpd804

September 26, 2005, 06:19 PM

JSP, that wasn't on the verge of moronic. That was a mile past moronic. Prejudice against police is bigotry. We're a sensitive bunch when it comes to that kind of thing.

jsp98m3

September 26, 2005, 08:53 PM

You are all kidding me right? Can any of you actually analyze a sentence or paragraph and determine meaning?

I am not scared of the cops. I am not suggesting pulling a gun on police for any reason.

I am giving a gross, overstated example to make a point. An amazing group. And I don't mean that in a good way.

us.armysniper

September 26, 2005, 10:16 PM

I think that is crazy to have a weapon in the bathroom but I also live on a military instilation so I don't worry to much, a late night of movies down stairs with me and the family the xd is with me. While i am in the shower it stays in the bedroom. If it is my destiny to die and god decides to do it while i am showering i guess there ain't much getting around it. But I am one of those people that believes when it is your time it is your time no mater what you do. And right now I have the mind set that since i survived the things I did for a year in the desert, I will probally be taken in my sleep. or of old age! :confused:

FLA2760

September 26, 2005, 10:41 PM

Hi
I do not take the gun in the shower but it is in a fanny pack in the bathroom linen closet. The bathroom door is locked and alarm is on. About 17 years ago a buddy of mine who was a cop on NYPD was in his shower after returning home from a midnight to eight shift. His car was in the shop and he was dropped off by his partner. No car in his driveway, it was 9.30 in the morning, (daytime is a prime time for residential burglary in NYC) He gets out of the shower and he hears voices downstairs. His.38 is in his bedroom closet in his holster. He creeps into the bedroom(the bathroom was adjacent) in his birthday suit and he thought he would be staring down the barrel of his own gun! He got to his gun, threw his robe on, and charged downstairs. They were already out the door and over his fence before he got all the way down. They got in through a kitchen window they forced and apparently heard him and decided to flee. Lucky for him! All they took was a boombox from the kitchen that belonged to his son! He takes his gun in a fanny pack into his bathroom ( I learned it from him) he also has a dog and an alarm now. Funny thing is that he is now retired and home most days. He said it was a feeling of helplessness that he would not want to experience ever again!
Steve :D

SAXD9

September 26, 2005, 10:51 PM

Keeping a gun within arms reach at all times is not paranoid.

That reminds me of the movie "The 13th Warrior". One of the warriors tells the Arab, "A man should never be more than one step from his sword."

When I'm home alone I'll lay my gun on the stool outside the shower with my towel on top of it. Since I live out in the country, and there are a lot of break-in's in my area, I always keep the doors locked but I don't normally carry on my person while in the house. Unless I'm asleep I'm normally no more than a few seconds away from my pistol, and if I have 30 seconds I can be armed with 2 pistols and a fully loaded 12 gauge with .00buck.
My early warning system is 4 large dogs that won't let anyone but family out of their cars without raising the alarm.

USP45usp

September 26, 2005, 11:20 PM

Honestly,

I'm still wondering why this thread has gotten as far as it has.

Who are we to second guess that actions of another?

You want to have a gun in the bathroom, you have a gun in the bathroom. If you don't think that it's important, then you don't.

The simple answer to this thread is just that, simple: No, it's not paranoid.

Why, because we've all made our decisions on when and how we are going to carry. Different people, different ideas.

And we really can't call any of those that choose to go the extra mile, paranoid, because that is what they have chosen for themselves, and we really can't give them heck for doing so.

Wayne

theshootist61

September 27, 2005, 12:07 AM

I don t carry in the head but i do everywhere else,if you feel right
carring in the can so be it.I WOULD also think about getting a solid door
for that room can t hurt.

________________________________
remember the only easy day was yesterday,tadpole hooyaa
UDT12,ST1 78-84

N.H. Yankee

September 27, 2005, 07:24 AM

I think some of the nay sayers have not been in a tactical life threatening situation. Here go's, your in the shower and the door gets kicked in, your mind says what the $#%# your confused is it the wind and my door blew open now 3-5 seconds have passed, next thought 2-4 more seconds gone where's my gun. the BEDROOM!!! one must remember when shocked most people minds go PANIC mode and clear thinking is gone. Where do you think the perp is now, GAME OVER YOUR DEAD!!!!!!!

Lonestar.45

September 27, 2005, 11:08 AM

Until I hear of a rash of shower shootings in my neighborhood/city/state, I think I'll just have to rely on my blue heeler to alert me to anyone in the house and let the gun stay dry. If her bark wouldn't alert me, the screams of an intruder being bitten probably would. :D There are ways to protect yourself other than hanging your holster from the shower head.

Derius_T

September 27, 2005, 11:10 AM

Jsp98m3 Wrote:

Its not stupid. It's idiotic, on the verge of moronic.

You said it. The point is that even as a joke, those kind of statements are at the very least in bad taste. There are alot of inexperienced people who visit and view this forum, and that type of statement could easily be taken the wrong way by someone.

But if I went by statistics, I'd have to take LEO as my numero uno threat to life and limb from attack with a deadly weapon.

Why is that? Are you someone who regularly engages in stupid or criminal acts? I have never in my life been afraid of the police. Only criminals are AFRAID of the police. Your statement puts law enforcement in a bad light, period. And considering your present company, I think it would be wise, and POLITE it retract it....

Ramcharger

September 27, 2005, 12:12 PM

What kind of conditioner would you recomend on a GP100?
I like the Lorial "wild Cherry" shampoo but I need a good conditioner to get those tangles out.

Also is it consided un PC not to wear shorts when showing together?
I mean my Ruger is ONLY 6" long so I wouldn't want it to feel "small" or anything... :D

sreising

September 27, 2005, 12:54 PM

Since this thread began with a story about women...since I'm a woman....lol...I'll give my .02 if ya'll don't mind...:)

1. Whoever said, "more physically vulnerable to rapes and beatings" as far as women go....ummm...I'm sorry, gotta diasgree with that statement. I'm not Ahnold, but if I can't get to my weapon, I still know hoe to make YOU come to your knees....and it ain't gonna be pleasurable. :)
(I just think that statement was an oversimplification of "how" women "are")

2. If you want to pack in the bathroom, fine. If you don't, fine.
Myself? I need not worry. I was smart enough to place the master bathroom right on the other side of the front door when we constructed the house. No matter if the fan is on and the shower's running full blast...if someone comes up to the porch, I can hear them fine.
If that were to ever happen, the weapon I "use", located in the bedroom, has the ability to harm through the sheetrock. "Out of sight, out of time." lol :)

The only other entrance is the back door which always remains locked and bolted unless my "babies" are outside. And, then, there is a fenced-in backyard. If a perp did get by the fence, I guarantee you he/she will NOT be able to get off a shot with the mighty size hole in their tooshie.

3. As far as the story goes.....there's always more to it than the media, or whoever reported it, would probably like us to know. Were these women careless, did they "open" themselves up? If they did, then the incident, imho is 1/2 their fault.
I would also like to make sure that this point is clear....gunsmoke is not always required for protection, especially inside of the home. Women, as most men would have it, need to be aware of their surroundings, and know what could be used as a weapon at all times. They also need to take at least one GOOD S.D. class.

BTW, yes, I have had a similar situation happen to me. However, I was not in the shower, I was doing my makeup. :) Heard the rattle, grabbed the 12ga riot. Went to the "place" that is audible, yet I'm protected. Didn't say a word. The shick-shick on the pump chambering a round made whoever it was go, "HOLY $%#&$!!!!" Never happened again. :)

So, thank you very much...I can hold my own as a woman, and I can hold it without having to pack in the shower. (Plus...what could be more of a bummer for MY relaxation time, but to see my "buddy" laying beside me?)

Love Ya'll! :)
Shan

boogeyman

September 27, 2005, 01:06 PM

I had to say something because I just got out of the shower with my glock 30. Last week I left my house for less than a half an hour around noon ... come back home and lo and behold lots of stuff is missing. Call me paranoid etc. but until i move, the gun is coming in the shower, car, bed, living room, kitchen etc. etc. 10 + 1 of .45 is a force to be reckoned with. And who so ever breaks in while I'm here, may God help them for I most surely won't.

moral of the story. don't make fun of anyone for carrying in a particular place. The SHTF when you least expect it... even when you may be taking a $#*! yourself!

p.s. Thank you Glock for the tennifer finish just for situations like these! :D

wayneinFL

September 27, 2005, 03:57 PM

JSP, are you sure the only ones carrying lethal weapons in San Diego are the cops?

But if I went by statistics, I'd have to take LEO as my numero uno threat to life and limb from attack with a deadly weapon.

I'd like to see those statistics. Do you have a link?

jsp98m3

September 27, 2005, 06:04 PM

The police are the largest cohesive group carrying in SD County.

The police in San Diego County and LA County have a long history of as a questionable shootings.

Like about 7 years ago when about 7 or 8 of them surrounded a man with a stick at a street corner. He homeless whacked out Vietnam vet. He had a stick less than one inch in diameter about 5 feet long. There were 5-7 cops in a circle around him. After they got themselves all collectively terrified of this 150+ guy with a stick, they sent in the police dog. Don't know what escalated it but then again, neither do the police, who's first story was nullified by the unseen news chopper crew and film overhead. Doh!

Anyway, without this guy presenting a direct threat, they started shooting. Lots. They even hit their own fricking dog.

Then how about the sailor that they claimed was high on PCP and destroying private property. They shot him 11 or 12 times in the street. Claimed he was higher than a kite and started smashing cars.

Uh-huh. He was NOT high. He smashed his fist into his own car. One time. Before the police arrived. Seemed his wife was doing another man while he was on deployment and SHE called the cops to report he was high. They never talked to him. And she wasn't credible because she called in anonymously to get him carted off so her and lover boy could get back to it.

I think the navy sued the city over that one.

As for sources, do your own. The local paper is the San Diego Tribune.

Any of you see the San Pedro shooting on TV? Locals know what I'm talking about.

And yet, I'm not scared of the police in the least. But I also don't care if the police feel insulted by my eyes wide open opinion of them either. Not all, but some. And they are either under-trained or something. Because in CA, when one shoots, they all shoot. Not that they hit anything effectively. Usually its 25-200 shots fired and 2 hits. But the neighborhood gets to touch up the stucco....

wayneinFL

September 27, 2005, 06:31 PM

As for sources, do your own.

No. If you're going to claim the police have all the weapons in San Diego, back it up. If you claim you have more chance of getting shot by a cop than attcked by a crook in San Diego, back it up. You make claims, you show me the stats. Otherwise, I'm calling B.S. Prove me wrong.

23Skidoo

September 27, 2005, 06:49 PM

JSP, good post.
Cops have a tough job and I have a lot of sympathy. But since they recruit from the public like everyone else they end up with some real stink pots sometimes. Some locales seem worse than others and I would guess some PDs just have a bad culture.

wayneinFL

September 27, 2005, 07:12 PM

Maybe I should clarify this. I'm not saying there are no bad cops. What I am saying is I doubt that you have disarmed all the bad guys with your effective California gun laws. I doubt you stand a better chance with the criminals than the cops. I doubt you have statistics that back up your position. All I see are two news stories from sources that have obvious media bias.

Randy in Arizona

September 29, 2005, 11:08 PM

Well I have heard of a man in New Mexico that showered with his M60, (Not S&W) but he was trying to get all the dust out that had blown into it while he was out shooting. ;)

pax

September 29, 2005, 11:52 PM

1. Whoever said, "more physically vulnerable to rapes and beatings" as far as women go....ummm...I'm sorry, gotta diasgree with that statement. I'm not Ahnold, but if I can't get to my weapon, I still know hoe to make YOU come to your knees....and it ain't gonna be pleasurable.
(I just think that statement was an oversimplification of "how" women "are")

sreising ~

You could look it up: most rapes and sexual assaults are perpetrated upon women, not upon men. Simply being female makes you a target for some crimes in a way that you would not be if you were male.

You could look this up, too: generally speaking, men have more upper-body strength than women do. They generally have more endurance, and generally mass more than women do. This gives them the edge in any physical altercation, no matter how well-trained the woman is. The edge can be overcome, but to deny it's there is really foolish. Part of being well trained is making a realistic survey of your strengths and weaknesses.

Furthermore, few criminals attack people they don't think they can take down. Females get attacked at a greater rate than men do; in part, this is because criminals themselves believe that women are easier targets than men are. If anyone would know, wouldn't you think the guy who does it for a living would?

Like you, I've taken a fair number of physical self-defense classes and know how to bring an attacker to his knees. It bothers me when people make general statements about any group (including women) and then proceed to act as though the general statement is true in each individual case.

Nevertheless, it is still a factually true statement that women are more vulnerable to these types of attacks than men are.

***

Oh, carrying a gun in the shower? Heh. I decided years ago that my gun would stay on my hip every hour I was awake and dressed. When I shower, I disrobe in the bathroom; thus my gun is locked in with me, and is not available for my children to toy with in the next room. Of course I could use it if attacked, but mostly it's just a matter of keeping it within my physical control and out of the hands of the hooligans I'm raising.

pax

us.armysniper

September 30, 2005, 12:05 AM

"Well I have heard of a man in New Mexico that showered with his M60, (Not S&W) but he was trying to get all the dust out that had blown into it while he was out shooting."

I must admit i did that(hot wash) several times to my weapons while in the big sandbox, the fine micro dust and sand will dirty it up like nothing else.

tanksoldier

September 30, 2005, 01:39 AM

I take rather long, quite hot showers at the end of the duty day. The only way I would know that a BG tried to break in was when my 100lb rottie/ ridgeback mix didn't want dinner because he was full of the BG he ate when I wasn't looking... (bad dog! you don't know where he's been! :) )

Nothing paranoid about it. Considering you cant hear much with the fan on and water running I'd say carrying in the bathroom is a good idea. It might also be a good idea to beef up the locks on the door also I know my bathroom door lock could broken easily. Also you could walk out into an ambush so you might want to have the gun in hand when you exit since you could be the last one alive.

Gotta quibble on this one, with no disrespect intended. Two of the finest Soldiers I ever served with were female National Guard MPs. One was a Sheriff's deputy in real life. Both were fit, well trained (both shot and attended Martial Arts classes on their own time) and had a warrior mindset. I'd team with them in a heartbeat. They were two really good troops. That being said, any male of equivelent training and fitness would overmatch them... their only advantage, and they knew it, was being better trained and in better shape than any potential opponent, enough so to overcome any natural size or strength advantage. They also knew that, even with all their training, it was very likely they would face adversaries who overmatched them physically. You have to have a realistic assessment of the threat and your ability to counter that threat.

Whoever said, "more physically vulnerable to rapes and beatings" as far as women go....ummm...I'm sorry, gotta diasgree with that statement. I'm not Ahnold, but if I can't get to my weapon, I still know hoe to make YOU come to your knees....and it ain't gonna be pleasurable.
(I just think that statement was an oversimplification of "how" women "are")

big daddy 9mm

September 30, 2005, 10:26 AM

I do not go to the gym and I am a guy so..... I fell pretty safe with a loaded 12
gauge under my bed until I can ccw..... :) :) :)

xXStarScreamXx

September 30, 2005, 11:52 AM

Suppose JSP is right and the number one threat to his life is the cops. It is possible. (I mean look at NO, they jumped in on the looting). Some of the worst traffic offenders I have ever known, all cops. Why? They wont get a ticket, everyone is like Bull****, if a cop speeds we give them a ticket. It's not always true, I've seen cops get out of tickets with a badge, hell I've heard of their wives getting out of tickets to. Back to the point, if the cops were the number one threat to his life, should he make preparations to defend his life?

No one, the pope, cops, me, you are infallible and immune to corruption or gross negligence.

And some one said prejudice of cops is bigotry, it is but with all the bigotry on gun boards reguarding minorities, people of different political ideologies and cultures.....it fits right in.

Me I respect the police for what they do, and fear them for what they are more than capable of. A piece of aluminum and a gun doesnt make you an honest person, your heart does.

jsp98m3

October 1, 2005, 02:18 AM

Don't get distracted thinking I have any fear, paranoia or dislike of the police. I don't.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are people on this board who are whack. Close to bonkers. And they state statistics and one in a million chances to justify their unnatural preoccupation with being armed at all times. Well, if we're going to use statistics to try to justify an abnormal lifestyle, then lets just go with the flow. The police analogy has just enough unintentional and probably accidental validity to make a point, if that's what a person is looking to do. Similarly, why aren't we marching on the Vatican and stoning the Pope to death? Statistics could be looked at in a way that can justify it, since they're all raping little boys anyway. Aren't they?

I think some of the people posting here are just plain scary. Kool-Aid drinking little nut jobs. And I'm not neccessarily talking about the original post in this thread.

Second to my unease with some people's lifestyle choices, is my utter amusement at how the slightest sniff of disagreement with this lifestyle leads to ad hominum attacks and a breakdown in the ability to analyze the written word.

Do people not see that they have long ago become a tool of the gun, not the other way around? If these threads had the word firearm removed and the word 'wallet' inserted, what then? Your wallet is useful. You generally have it with you everywhere you go? Its unsightly and you wear it hidden. But if you started posting that you were trying to figure out how to always have a wallet stashed in every room, needed to have it even on the beach, had to have 50 different versions or were trying to make sure you had one in the shower with you, you'd be seen as a kook. How much more with something that can deliver death instantaneously?

People tend to distrust and ridicule people who act odd. They fear people who act odd and have a fascination with instruments of death.

If you then go further and group yourselves together under the leadership of a guy who preaches the battle at the end of the world and bury school buses in your backyard, you might not be surprised that your neighbors start to wonder about you and the BATF shows up.

But carry on. Feel free to be odd. But don't be surprised if mainstream society giggles at you. Even other people who actually appreciate weapons for lots of non-addictive reasons.

Dead-Nuts-Zero

October 1, 2005, 02:45 AM

Ohhhh, Thats what they mean when they say to shower with a buddy. :cool:

xXStarScreamXx

October 1, 2005, 02:51 AM

Hahaha. One guy keeps a look out while the other washes the shampoo out of his hair?

pax

October 1, 2005, 03:09 AM

I note with genuine but wry amusement that the accusation of ad hominems comes from a person whose entire post is itself, by precise definition, an ad hominem.

Although I have to admit, jsp98m3, I agree with you: some people are nut jobs. But who gets to be the one holding the definition book?

pax

I'm not as paranoid as you tell everybody I am. -- Steven Wright

Wildalaska

October 1, 2005, 03:14 AM

Do people not see that they have long ago become a tool of the gun, not the other way around?

Well gol dang it time for a poll!

WildletsdigintothisoneAlaska

tanksoldier

October 1, 2005, 03:38 AM

I'm curious to know if you even know what "ad hominum" <sic> means?
An Ad Hominem is an attack on the arguer, rather than on the argument... which you seem to decry in your post, yet half of the very same post is in fact an Ad Hominem attack.

What other people think of me is probably the LAST argument that will sway my opinion. If CHL holders worried about that we would never have obtained a CHL. The rest of the world won't "giggle" at me if I happen to have a gun in the locked bathroom while I shower, because the only person who will ever know if I do (aside from my wife) is the badguy who gets shot with it. If I am ever forced to defend me and mine with a weapon I kept handy in the bathroom, rather than a fool, I would be seen as a man of wisdom and foresight.

I would also point out that you seem to be trying to protect people from themselves... the exact stance most anti-gun activists take. You know what's good for the people on this board better than they do.

I would also point ot that logically carrying/ having available 100% of the time, in the shower, during sex or whatever is actually what makes sense... it makes no logical sense to have a weapon handy at some times and not others. Consider:

Carrying a concealed weapon is an attempt to defend against an event that is already extremely unlikely. It is unlikely that you will be ambushed walking to your car after work, yet no one here would think twice about someone carrying a firearm to defend against this possibility. It is also extremely unlikely that you will be ambushed in your shower, yet the concept of defending yourself there has generated some heated debate. Logically, if you have already gone to some effort and expense to defent against an extremely unlikely event, why would you protect yourself from one such event, but not another? I would argue that such behavior is similar to stocking your survival kit with equipment to protect yourself from chemical, but not biological, weapons. Both are unlikley, but if you're going to prepare for one why not the other as well?

Second to my unease with some people's lifestyle choices, is my utter amusement at how the slightest sniff of disagreement with this lifestyle leads to ad hominum attacks and a breakdown in the ability to analyze the written word.

jsp98m3

October 1, 2005, 03:40 AM

Although I have to admit, jsp98m3, I agree with you: some people are nut jobs. But who gets to be the one holding the definition book?

Everyone. That's the point. The original poster asked 'the public' if he was being paranoid. Many don't think so. Many do. Now you might say I'm a fence sitter when it comes to weapons. I've got more than the average American, I suspect. But not what I would consider going over the edge into collecting. I have an AR-15 for no particular reason other than I thought I should make a statement against unreasonably restricting long guns based on nothing but looks. I have a Ruger 10/22 for plinking. I have a BHP for the love of the craftsmanship and home defense. I also have a FEG .380 and a Raven .25 because I got them within the last 6 weeks as a thank you for cleaning up a whole pile of mostly mediocre pistols. I don't need them but they seem to funcion and have their own little charm. I do not see the need to own 6 examples of a 1911. Especially all alike or nearly so. But it doesn't bother me that some people do have multiple copies of the same thing.

I just have an opinion. People that are afraid to take a shower without a gun IN THERE WITH THEM are paranoid unless they live in a very, very bad neighborhood. In my opinion, which is as good as anyone else's. In another one of those opinions I have, I think society owes it to itself to speak up and tell people they might be standing a little close to the third rail of societal behaviour.

I used to be a staunch supporter of CCW but since coming onto this forum, I'm not more than cautiously neutral. There are some people I just can't see having a weapon in public.

Maybe there should be a system for CCW like driving licenses? First 6 months, you can have a starter pistol. Then you can have a .17 airgun, then .22 short. By year 10, if you haven't gone loopy, you can get a .45 ;)

Jim

jsp98m3

October 1, 2005, 03:52 AM

tanksoldier, I don't have any intention of defending people against themselves. Want to blow your own head off? Come on over, I'll give you ammo. So no, I don't care what you do to yourself. I do have a concern about people who move farther and farther outide of the mainstream until they get to the point that they become an unintentional and unnoticed danger to society.

Besides, if you carry a pistol in the shower, don't you have to clean and oil it when you get out? Then you stink like solvent and gun oil. Then you have to take another shower. Then you have to clean and oil the gun. Then you......

Now I have to get on to other ad hominM&Ms ;)

guntotin_fool

October 1, 2005, 03:55 AM

To get back on topic, no it is not paranoid, lots of good reasons for doing so.

Ms Sreising: kicking a guy in the cajones will not always stop them, I know I was kicked there by a young women in cowboys boots when I used to bounce at a bar, Yes i did drop her boyfriend who was being 86'd but i did not fall to the floor and I was able to head slap her twice with sap before the other guys pulled me off her. Did it hurt? yup like a mofo, was I able to survive it and respond? you betcha. Pound for pound you may be tough as nails, but you go head to head with a guy who is trying to hurt you, and you will loose. guranteed. I am not boasting or calling you out, I am just trying to tell you that is the truth. I am glad you are here and willing to talk with us. you can probably outshoot me/most of us. I just do not want you to think men have a turn off button that you can kick once and we are done. Most of the time too, it is almost impossible to get a kick to connect there if the guy is attacking, we are very good at protecting outselves there and trying to kick us is going to get us very mad.

Wildalaska

October 1, 2005, 03:56 AM

I would also point ot that logically carrying/ having available 100% of the time, in the shower, during sex or whatever is actually what makes sense.

Umm SWMBO aint gonna like that...

"Why you holding gun now in romantic time stupid old man, I go back to Japan and you lose this wife, no one change your diaper when you are 80"

WildguessillforgetaboutthegunforfiveminutesorsoAlaska

jsp98m3

October 1, 2005, 04:02 AM

Wild.....

You crack me up. :D

MillCreek

October 1, 2005, 10:27 AM

WildguessillforgetaboutthegunforfiveminutesorsoAlaska

Whoa......five minutes! Dude!

USP45usp

October 1, 2005, 10:45 AM

Well, I do live in a bad neighborhood (if you had read some of my other threads about the people across the street) so I guess I'm not your regular "nut job" as you defined it.

Yet, I still can't bring myself to judge others for what they have decided to do for themselves.

I guess in a way I am a "nut job" by your definition though. I have a fire extinguisher in the bedroom, the living room, the kitchen, the spare room as well as the bathroom. I also have smoke detectors in each one. I don't have them from being paranoid, more like being prepared just in case.

My primary heat source is a kerosene heater (really old house) so therefore I have carbon monoxide detectors in the areas around the old heater.

I know, I know, your "expert" advise is for me to 1) move and 2) get a new heating system.

Well, I won't move, the house (for what it is) and the property is mine as inheritance so therefore, I won't allow the neighborhood to oust me from what little I own. As for the heat system, that comes after I finish rebuilding the house so it can wait.

Everyone chooses how he or she wishes to run their own life and what they want to do while living that life. People like you, who think that your opinions and "feelings" about how others should live, should be the law are just wanna be elitist snobs who hate the fact that people actually have thoughts of their own that don't agree with yours.

As for your attacking the membership, calling their intellect and mental status into being is a sign of someone that is exactly what they are trying to project upon others, low of intellect and most likely mentally unstable.

If you had bothered to read other threads and the same members here replying there, you will find many disagreements. But unlike you, they don't lower themselves and start to call names or insult the membership that they disagree with. And if they do chose to insult them, then they will come straight out and say so.

As for what you think about the membership having weapons and/or a concealed carry license, I don't care what you think. You have your own opinions on a subject, we have ours. We don't think that it's paranoid, you do. Yet you don't see us calling your intellect or your mental status into being now do you?*

But don't mind me, to you I'm just a nut job.

Wayne

*except for me who has just done so in this post.

Wildalaska

October 1, 2005, 11:12 AM

But don't mind me, to you I'm just a nut job.

Yeah but I still love ya, that makes you a GOOD nut job

WildworkingonanewinventionwithgunslatexandpiercingsAlaska

October 1, 2005, 11:37 AM

One never knows the where or when of next encounter-CRSam

Define Encounter

I am responsible for me. This includes any firearm and its use, availability, or rounds discharged.

In another life, I had access to portable mediums of exchange. Vulnerable times include was when I was in hotel/ motel. Living in an apartment, Renting a condo.

Access is NOT always controlled by ME. Maintenence folks like exterminators get master keys. As do employees , current or past at hotels/ motels, apartments, Condos. Some are just nosey, perhaps disgruntled, others are not wired right and we call them criminals.

Around kids, or anyone - It is my responsibility to keep MY firearm with me and under my control. Some folks do not have firearm awareness. Some will steal for money, some will spout off and illegal ears will hear.

Yes I continue to take my CCW in the bathroom, I have for a l-o-n-g time.

I have had hotel/ motel folks walk in while I was taking a shower, room service, or somesuch.

I have been in the shower and had the Exterminator show up in my apt, he had a master key - Easier the Apt owners/ mgr 'said' than having to meet the guy at the office at a certain time.

I have been in MY Apt and heard blood curdling screams from my neighbor, very attractive young lady. Seems a "former" maintenence guy had a master key, he walked in on her, her gun was in her nightstand. Flimsy doors, and locks, hairbrushes and blow dryers - just don't cut it.

She started taking her gun in the bathroom. She and some GFs rented a Condo later on...seems attractive women attract certain elements. Her GFs screamed when the maintence guy "helped himself in" , with his master key- ,my neighbor was the only one armed at the time, and was in the bathroom.

I was a kid, I had been shooting my .22 revolver, and took into the bathroom with me to keep safe from smaller sibs. I heard screams, thru the bathroom window. Baby brother was being chased by a rabid dog.

Eyes wide with fear, and running for dear life, he made in the back door. I took care of the dog.

Awareness and being responsible is NOT "location" exclusive. Stuff happens at anytime, anyplace.

Fire extinguishers never seem to be in reach either...when you NEED one.

tshadow6

October 1, 2005, 11:48 AM

I carry all the time. Church, college, maybe a gun in the shower is a bit much, but a gun handy in the bathroom isn't.

JohnKSa

October 1, 2005, 12:07 PM

The original poster asked 'the public' if he was being paranoid.I absolutely did not. I posted a specific example of a criminal who targeted people who were in the shower. I then pointed out that criminals try to target vulnerable people and that people are often very vulnerable in their homes and criminals know it.

I did not and have not said that I carry in the shower for the simple reason that I don't. I said SPECIFICALLY that I was NOT trying to make a case for carrying in the shower, and stated the purpose of my starting this thread VERY clearly in the last sentence of the initial post of this thread.

USP45usp

October 1, 2005, 12:43 PM

Just to help the good folks here to remember (I for one had forgotten the initial question myself with all the bantering that we've been doing):

I just watched a documentary on a serial killer (Cleophus Prince Jr.) who would follow women home from health clubs, break into their homes and rape and stab them. The police theorized that he knew that the women would probably get right into the shower upon returning from a health club and that made it easier for him to enter the home undetected--perhaps he was even thinking far enough ahead to reason that they were unlikely to be armed or have the means to mount any kind of defense. He most commonly used a knife taken from the kitchen of the victim.

I've seen people castigated for saying that they carry around the house, and I've seen joke threads about people carrying in the shower.

I'm not going to turn this into a plea for everyone to keep a gun in the shower or a criticism of those who say that people are paranoid for carrying around the house, but it's worth noting that we are vulnerable to criminal attack when in our own homes--at times very vulnerable. And worth noting that criminals know it and exploit it.

So, we can get back on course ;)

Wayne

michael t

October 1, 2005, 01:31 PM

I always take my gun into shower. But I leave my weapon on shelf out side. Any one remember boot camp :D

Jack Malloy

October 3, 2005, 08:49 PM

Jeff Cooper and Mass Ayoob have both commented about carrying your gun (and where to place it) when in the john.
I don't see why placing a gun where it is accessible in the shower or bathroom is any sillier than being concerned about that.
I have heard of too many cases where people facing home invaders and angry domestic violence situations wound up barricaded in their bathrooms.
Its a valid topic.

DobermansDoItGoofy

October 3, 2005, 09:03 PM

:cool: I feel sorry for the person who breaks into my house...

What must they think when my 4 Dobes look up at him and smile...

My last vistor asked 'What's that sound?' I opened the door to the playroom and there asleep on the big L-shaped sofa were 4 snoring Dobes...

czc3513

October 3, 2005, 10:51 PM

I carry my gun in the shower.
I strip it, clean it, and make love to it in the shower.
:D
If I did carry I would keep it on me with my jeans.
I would not carry it IN the shower but I would have it in the bathroom with a clean pair of jeans. Sometimes I sleep in my jeans so I might also sleep with my gun on me. Does having a gun on me all the time make me paranoid? I think it makes me prepared. Like wearing jeans. :D

jsp98m3

October 3, 2005, 11:09 PM

Clinton asks what the meaning of "is", is. I ask what the meaning of "in" is.

October 3, 2005, 11:52 PM

This point bears repeating.

When I shower, I disrobe in the bathroom; thus my gun is locked in with me, and is not available for my children to toy with in the next room. Of course I could use it if attacked, but mostly it's just a matter of keeping it within my physical control and out of the hands of the hooligans I'm raising. - Pax

I've considered this many times: How do I keep my kid out of the weapons locker while keeping a weapon handy? The best solution is to have keep my carry weapon on my person at all times and to lock up the rest of the weapons. (putting kitchen knives in a child-proof cabinet is a very good idea)

So it's not paranoia. It's part of child proofing your armed household. I interpret this to mean that IF a responsible adult decides to arm the household, that adult needs to take the weapon(s) into the bathroom. Maybe even into the tub and shower. Just use a high shelf and a ziplock bag for your steel weapons.

Put another way: A person should minimize condition-white times or come to terms with the fact that we're all going to die, some times.

:D I guess I'll start carrying a (nonslip) baton into the shower with me. The shower is already made with clear glass for visibility plus a concrete/tile separator for cover. All I need to change is to put a weapons locker in the closet that is inside the bathroom. :neener:

jsp98m3

October 4, 2005, 12:08 AM

Can't we all just snap the BG's with a wet towel?

tanksoldier

October 4, 2005, 02:50 AM

Unless society hangs out in my bathroom, I don't think there'll be a problem.

I do have a concern about people who move farther and farther outide of the mainstream until they get to the point that they become an unintentional and unnoticed danger to society.

sreising

October 10, 2005, 09:07 AM

Commenting on the posts before directed at my former post...:)

Yes, I completely understand that statistics and common physiology are not in my favor, as a woman. Yet, I just can't stand the over-generalization there is about women protecting themselves.

If those two "trained" women are still able to be overcome more than 3 times out of 10, then they are using the wrong tactics against that situation and assailant. Ever heard of PPT? Very strong without needed strength.
Taking out the testosterone calling, no offense, but it doesn't have to be how hard you strike your assailant. The most important factor in the equation is where.

There are so many pressure points that are open, "even for a woman", on both sides of the body that will bring an assailant down. Doesn't have to be a mighty lion punch, just fast enough to make contact and move. Betcha any girl can punch faster than a guy can. I didn't stay harder, I said faster. (shorter arms, less mass, more detail-oriented)

It's not a matter of a woman being able to knock the guy out and then stand upon his unconscious body beating her chest letting out a mighty Tim Allen roar. It's getting the space needed to get to either the neighbor's, your weapon, whatever plan you have in place to better defend yourself. Men would do just as good in the same situation. But, for some reason, society will tag you men as a wuss for not knocking the guy out.

Sad, really. I come out with less bruises but just as successful, but still we are downplayed as being the maidens in distress in needed of a knight's rescue.
Bleck......I hate that.

You know, maybe if the "other" gender would give the general population of women a little more credit for what we are able to do, rather than not able to do, it would motivate more women to learn the correct tactics on how to handle a would-be enemy.

I'll stand by Annie Oakley's words..."Anything you can do I can do better."
And, if I can't at this very given second, I'll bet you my last dollar that I'll find a way how.

:D

Shan

Derius_T

October 11, 2005, 07:00 AM

Usp45usp wrote:

Everyone chooses how he or she wishes to run their own life and what they want to do while living that life. People like you, who think that your opinions and "feelings" about how others should live, should be the law are just wanna be elitist snobs who hate the fact that people actually have thoughts of their own that don't agree with yours.

As for your attacking the membership, calling their intellect and mental status into being is a sign of someone that is exactly what they are trying to project upon others, low of intellect and most likely mentally unstable.

If you had bothered to read other threads and the same members here replying there, you will find many disagreements. But unlike you, they don't lower themselves and start to call names or insult the membership that they disagree with. And if they do chose to insult them, then they will come straight out and say so.

As for what you think about the membership having weapons and/or a concealed carry license, I don't care what you think. You have your own opinions on a subject, we have ours. We don't think that it's paranoid, you do. Yet you don't see us calling your intellect or your mental status into being now do you?*

But don't mind me, to you I'm just a nut job.

Don't bother trying to help him USP, as you said, your opinion doesn't jive with his, so its pointless.

And jsp98m3, since you didn't bother to reply to my last post, I'll assume that either you missed it...or more likely, others opinions do not matter to you. Doesn't really matter which. And while I myself happen to understand that you were only 'attacking the police' half in jest, there are some who read your post that will NOT realize that. Some will take it to heart. Someone might actually share your opinions (as unlikely and frightening as that thought is), so you sometimes have to be careful about HOW you say things in a public forum.

I'm all for free speech. Say what you want. Just be smart enough, or have enough class to say it in a way that does not intentionally offend people. And if you mean to offend tham, FINE, have the stones to do it outright. If you DIDN'T mean to offend and someone says that you have, at least have enough class and respect for yourself and others to appologize, and stop being such a high-minded jackass....

John28226

October 12, 2005, 08:25 PM

Has anyone besides me gotten the feeling that anyone who has been on this forum for less than a month and has 210 posts with many of them elitist anti-gun statements, might possibly be someone we should not take seriously? After all, even a 13 year old can post on the Internet and claim all types of experience, ability, courage, intelligence and superiority.

My daughter lived in San Diego for a while and I visited there. I found that not all the animals were actually in the zoo.

Derius, you said it very well. The person going by jsp98m3 should wear a sign saying, "Troll" Billie Goat Troll might be even better. The decision to carry a gun and where and when to carry one is a decision that should be made by the adult with the gun. Children are not allowed to carry guns, no not even in the shower, so I guess it might seem strange for them when someone does. Unless it is a water pistol!
John
Charlotte, NC
Mecklenburg County

Wildalaska

October 13, 2005, 12:30 AM

many of them elitist anti-gun statements,

Sigh...

all righty then....:barf:

WildthisthreadshistoryAlaska

czc3513

October 13, 2005, 04:54 AM

I think jsp had some good points.
I was not offended by anything he said.
Did I miss something?
Some of you seem offended.

sreising
Every guy wants to be the knight that saves the maiden in distress.
:D
I am waiting for some girl to save me.

wayneinFL

October 13, 2005, 09:44 AM

I suppose it's the judgemental attitude of some gun owners. I remember a George Carlin act in which he says everybody on the road is either an idiot or a maniac.

Many people do this. There are hunters who judge gun owners who keep guns for defensive purposes. I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who own guns for defensive purposes who are totally against hunting. There are those who own handguns but don't see the purpose for "assault rifles"or "sniper rifles". There are those who own "sniper rifles", but can see no sporting purpose in a handgun.There are those who keep a handgun in their nightstands to kill an intruder, but are shocked to find there are people who carry them outside the home.

Meanwhile, there are people who own no guns who vilify all gun owners. Is there a difference? Not much.

There's at least one poster on here who thinks anyone who wants to know what to do with his carry gun while in the bathroom is a nutcase.

Why can't we all reserve judgement on each other?

sreising

October 13, 2005, 12:08 PM

czc.

....Oh we're out there...you just can't be afraid to approach us and you can't be afraid to let us wear the pants once in awhile.

:)

Shan

Wildalaska

October 13, 2005, 12:46 PM

in which he says everybody on the road is either an idiot or a maniac.

Must have been driving in Alaska

WildtodayissurefiredayAlaska

Night Watch

October 14, 2005, 11:38 PM

The trouble with a gun in the shower is where do you put it, how do you keep your powder dry, and prevent your shower gun from rusting out? Still remember Janet Leigh in that shower scene from Psycho! Wouldn't it be a much better idea to just let your Rottweiler wait in the hall, and keep the piece under a towel in the linen closet? :p

tinkanting

October 17, 2005, 12:16 AM

nope, just being prepared ;)

Jack Malloy

October 24, 2005, 06:32 AM

There have been two shootings in the town I live in in the past few years.
One of them was an incident where somebody did indeed get barricaded in the bathroom by a nut with a knife. The nut got shot because somebody kept a gun in the crapper.
It can happen.
It was about this time that I started keeping my carry gun there when it was not on my person. I seldom have company at my place so there is not much worry about somebody having access to it.
Ive not had a corrossion problem yet, but then again my usual carry guns are stainless or a Glock. I generaly place it inside of a towel which seems to keep moisture from humidity from affecting it.
In regards to people's anti-gun opinions, I have noticed over the past few years a phenomenon that appears to have started in the PC world and has carried over everywhere else.
Basically, in the day and age we live in the PC types and media elites have convinced people that just becuase they have an opinion (no matter how loopy)its as valid as the facts or truth.
Unfortunately, this is hogwash.
Intelligent people have opinions that are BASED on facts. However, most peoples opinions are not based on anything other than what they WANT to beleive irregardless of the truth.
You started seeing this crap a lot first by the lefties. They would go on and on and on about what a great president CLinton was, but they could never tell you why. When you pinned em down on it, all they could say was stuff based on soundbites, which were usually baloney. No, the economy was NOT better than ever under him. He STARTED the outsourcing of jobs with NAFTA, and the Enron theives were ripping people off right and left under his watch by claiming profits they never made, ditto with other wall street hustlers. He made Haliburton and Blackwater skads of money by downsourcing the US MIlitary which meant that we had to hire private contractors to do things like basic security and transport as we just didn't have the manpower we used to and so forth....
But these people get irate when you point those facts out, because the REALITY does not jibe with their OPINION. They have been brainwashed and inculcated into thinking that their opinions are as valid as the truth or facts.
Yes, there are people who keep a gun at home for defense and get askanse at people who carry. Because they don't want to admit the truth to themselves, which is that you have just as much of a chance of being attacked at work or on the street as you do at home. They have an OPINION that you only need to worry about defense at home, because a part of their personality is too lazy or overly optimistic or whatever to go through the process of obtaining a CCW permit.
Just as their are people who have an opinion that the only arms needed are those for deer hunting. They think that because they have never rolled around in a dark alley with a mugger who is knifing them that it won't ever happen. So those who have had that unpleasant experience and who do pack are viewed askance by them.
I once dated a leftie who refused to do any routine maintenance on her automobile which became a rattling hunk of junk. Her opinion was that you should just wait till it broke down before doing anything to it. Meanwhile, last month somebody saw my 1984 Oldsmobile tootling around town. It probably has 300 thousand or more miles on it now. It had close to that when I sold it to my cousin who was a janitor for $100 bucks.

Personally, in my OPINION, the primary purpose of a gun is self defense. Im not half the man I used to be and I might not be able to fight off five guys bare handed anymore, or one guy with a shiv. I've never been attacked by skeet, and I don't view deer or wild turkey as a threat to my existance. But I can understand and respect the other shooting sports as well as the facts of modern conservation (which is that we need hunting to cull herds now that we don't have predators who do it).

>>>Many people do this. There are hunters who judge gun owners who keep guns for defensive purposes. I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who own guns for defensive purposes who are totally against hunting. There are those who own handguns but don't see the purpose for "assault rifles"or "sniper rifles". There are those who own "sniper rifles", but can see no sporting purpose in a handgun.There are those who keep a handgun in their nightstands to kill an intruder, but are shocked to find there are people who carry them outside the home.

Meanwhile, there are people who own no guns who vilify all gun owners. Is there a difference? Not much.

<<<<

Night Watch

October 24, 2005, 06:57 AM

:) Jack, That was sooo .... cool! You should win, 'Post of the Month' for that one! :p

FP2000H

October 24, 2005, 01:34 PM

Everytime I shower or am in the bathroom alone in the house, my Glock 37 accompanies me. I wrap it in my bath towel and lay it on the floor next to the shower. A curtain is the only thing between me and it. I live next to a questionable part of town and although I don't expect anything to happen, I would hate for my last thought to be, as the life is seeping out of me, "You mutha****er, if I'd had my G37 you'd have been dead as ****." And I always turn the bathroom lights out before I exit the door gun in hand so I can see my Meprolights clearly. Call me paranoid.

johnnymenudo

October 26, 2005, 10:18 AM

Yes, it is paranoid. I suppose if someone attacks you in the shower then the paranoia served you well - but if you don't feel comfortable enough to shower without a gun in the shower with you - you either need to move, get a more secure home, or stop showering. Sorry guys but I just don't think it is possible to be 100% tactical at all times without quality of life suffering. Lets take it to another level. When I watch a movie in my home theater the volume is up enough that I can't hear little noises upstairs. Should I stop watching movies? When I play music it masks noises - should I stop listening to music? When I have sex with my girlfriend, I am both undressed (not tactical), and preoccupied - and truth be told it can get a bit loud so I might not hear little noises in the rest of the house. Should I stop having relations with my girlfriend?

You have to live life - don't let your fears or precautions make you a prisoner.

JM

NB4ZOT

October 26, 2005, 10:25 AM

Jericho9mm

October 26, 2005, 10:30 AM

You folks need to get a dog

Domesticated dogs are God's home security gift to man. :cool:

tuckerdog1

October 27, 2005, 03:57 PM

May seem that way until the day comes your firearm is right where you need it to be. Brings to mind an old Gahan Wilson cartoon, man & wife on a street corner downtown, man holding rifle, dead elephant in front of them, and wife saying "I'll never make fun of you for carrying that elephant gun everywhere again."

I have a coworker, also a "gun person", who for a long time had tried to get me to come by his house. He lives alone in a typical 3 bedroom 2 bath place. When I finally dropped over, he started showing me around the house. As we went from room to room, he'd also show me a 1911 he'd have stashed in that particular room. After several rooms, I commented he had a lot of 45s out & about. He told me he had one in every room, because you never know which room you might be in when you suddenly need one. Might seem a little overboard to some, but the bad guys don't always creep in slowly. If they come in fast, that 45 in the spoon drawer, in the kitchen, might be just the ticket.

Tuckerdog1

sgtdemeo

October 27, 2005, 05:20 PM

look, I am a new poster, to this site, but I have been reading it for about 3 years now... and i have come up with some interesting deductions about some of the clientele of this site.
1) where the heck do some of you people live, that you feel that unsafe???
2) I am currently in the army in Iraq, and have been for the last 11 months... NEVER have I been so paranoid as some of you are in your own houses.... and don't think that i am in a remf job... i am an MP stationed about 20 miles outside Baghdad, and we are on the road almost every day.... yes, i am careful, and yes, i keep my eyes open, but then again, this is a war zone, not my living room! and please do not get the impression that i am saying i am not extremely cautious about what i do, or my surroundings, but never, ever in the usa have i seen anything remotely resembling what i have seen here, so i just don't see how you all could be so worried all the time!
3) i have been here for, like i said, 11 months, and i know that the level of threat here has made me extra vigilant... but the price for being so alert, beyon my usual day-to -day alertness at home is that it is VERY stressfull, and drains you of a lot of your energy! I just don't see how anyone would want to live with that level of paranoia everyday... it just seems to me it must be an aweful way to spend every day.... do you give a background check to all visitors to your house? do you screen your girlfrend/boyfriend? where do you draw the line?
so in the end, do i think it is paranoid to carry a gun to the shower.... yes. paranoid to the point of not being free. congratulations, you are a victim of yor own fears. they now control your every move and thought. and thats just sad.

Wildalaska

October 27, 2005, 05:23 PM

bRAVO!

WildexcellentfirstpostAlaska

JohnKSa

October 27, 2005, 09:20 PM

He told me he had one in every room, because you never know which room you might be in when you suddenly need one.The only person I know who does this is a retired State Trooper. I don't follow his example, but it's certainly hard to argue that he doesn't have the experience to back up his decision...where the heck do some of you people live, that you feel that unsafeI don't feel unsafe. But I do like to be prepared.

As I pointed out earlier, I don't carry a gun in the shower, I started this thread after reading about a serial killer who specifically targeted people in the shower because of their vulnerability.

I think it's important to realize that people are vulnerable to criminal attack, even in the safety of their shower or bathroom. Not to live in fear as a result of that knowledge, but to make rational decisions based on reality, not on wishful thinking.NEVER have I been so paranoid as some of you are in your own housesThat doesn't surprise me a bit! It's not very likely that a serial killer is likely to attack you in the shower in the middle of a military installation, is it? :D

Ok, seriously, there's a huge gap between being paranoid versus pretending that a house offers invulnerability against criminal attack. In the same way that you wear your body armor and carry spare ammo in combat, it's important for people to realize their vulnerabilities and rationally assess what action they want to take to mitigate those vulnerabilities. Carrying in the shower is extreme--that's why I don't do it. But people have been killed/attacked in the shower and we know that criminals realize that people are more vulnerable in the shower. Therefore it's worth thinking about, at the least.it just seems to me it must be an aweful way to spend every dayWell, I can't speak for others, but I don't spend the entire day on alert. I have made what I consider reasonable provision for the defense of myself and my family. That means I DON'T have to be on constant alert. I can relax knowing that if things get crazy, I have provided a means to let me know of potential danger and have at hand the means to deal with threats.you are a victim of yor own fears. they now control your every move and thought. and thats just sad.It would be if it were true. And I suppose it is for some. But I don't live in fear. I don't let threats control my every move. I have thought through things that might happen and have taken some precautions that I consider to be common sense. Now I don't have to worry--I can relax.

I understand your comments and you have good points. But remember, just because a person has fire extinguishers handy doesn't mean they live in constant fear of fire. In fact, just the reverse is often true. ;)

sgtdemeo

October 27, 2005, 11:38 PM

John. you have brought up some valid rationales for supporting your opinions! i especially like the quote about the fire extinguishers! :D i guess i just maybe got the impression that statistically speaking, most of the people who take so many precautions with their firearms, as well as most of the people in america, (including myself!) will be at a much higher risk of having a heart attack. Do the people who are so concerned about thier safety to carry in the shower take the same safety precautions against heart attack, or cancer, I.E> No smoking, plenty of excersise? (please do not confuse this with preaching, for i am a 1/2 apack a day smoker) I just am interested in the responses! I guess what i am asking is, does the "totally prepared and planned out for everything attitude" extend beyond firearms? again, thanks for the good and insightful debate!

pax

October 28, 2005, 12:00 AM

sgtdemeo ~

Here's a post I made a couple years ago, on another board. I'm posting it here in hopes that you will understand that carrying a gun all the time doesn't necessarily mean someone is the prisoner of their own fears. On the contrary, carrying a gun keeps my mind free to worry about other stuff.

Here's the post.

The fact is, carrying a gun can be uncomfortable. The gun gets in the way of some activities, both literal and figurative. There is a constant and slightly uncomfortable awareness that the folks around me would frown upon me if they knew I had a gun under my outer clothing. Nevertheless, I continue to carry almost all day, almost every day -- and here's why.

Last week, I went to pick up two of my children from summer camp, and drop another two off at the same camp for the next session. The camp is about 3 hours from my house, in a rural area. The road we travel to get there is a two-lane highway, scenic and beautiful. And we were traveling in broad daylight.

Before I left the house, I put my gun on.

Did I expect any trouble? Nope. I just wear it as a matter of course. It's what I ordinarily do and that's what I did on this ordinary day.

After dropping one set of kids off and picking up the next set, the kids (ages 11 and 9) and I wandered down to the beach. We walked along a nearly empty boardwalk and enjoyed the sun and the crisp breeze. Yes, I still had my gun on. I didn't leave it in the car because I expected no trouble. I carried it, because that's what I always do.

Because we were enjoying ourselves, we stayed at the beach a bit longer than I had originally intended, and so it was nearly sunset before we got back in the car for the ride home. We got back in the car and I noticed the car needed fuel, so we stopped at the gas station. There were other people fueling up, and I did my standard observant glance around the station before I stepped out of the car. I did that, because that's what I always do. Filled the tank. Got back in the car ... and the car spluttered spluttered didn't want to start.

Hmph.

My sons and I push-started the cruddy little car and I mumbled a few choice comments under my breath. The car was going, sounded all right, and I was wondering ... "Now what??" The ride home was going to take about 3 hours. We'd piddled around at the beach so that it would be full dark before we got home. For various reasons, I do not own a cell phone* -- not that it would have mattered since this particular stretch of road is notorious for its lack of cell service. Was the car reliable enough to drive down the deserted stretch of road? Should I risk it? If I didn't risk it, what would I do instead? There were no service shops open in this almost nonexistent town on a Saturday night, nor were there likely to be the next day.

I know nothing about engines (hey, that's what God made mechanics for!) and had no idea what was wrong. Maybe I'd left the headlights on while we were walking the boardwalk? If so, driving awhile would take care of the problem -- and I couldn't think of any really great alternative plans.

So we started back on that empty deserted stretch of road. And of course the car died (fiddlesticks and other comments). So there I was, a woman alone with two young boys, with no cell phone, on a deserted stretch of two lane highway just as it was about to turn dark.

Was I worried? About the car, yes. But I wasn't worried about our physical safety -- I had my gun and I knew I could protect myself and my children if a predator came along.

Shortly after the car died, another car pulled over and the man driving it asked if we needed help. Was I worried? Nope, I was relieved. I didn't have to worry about him, because I knew I could protect myself if he turned out not to be the good Samaritan he appeared to be. Having the means to defend myself allowed me to be friendly and confident in talking to a stranger in what could have been dangerous circumstances. So I gave him the phone number for AAA and asked him to call them for me. He said, "All right, I'll do that -- and I'll come back and let you know what they said so you'll know if I got ahold of them okay." Nice guy.

Fifteen minutes later, the man returned, handed us three cold Cokes, and told me AAA was on the way. I thanked him profusely and the kids gave him their best grins.

An hour after that, I was still sitting on the side of the road, waiting for my tow truck. The boys and I had run out of things to talk about. I was bored, a little worried that AAA had forgotten us, and getting hungry and sleepy. Finally, the tow truck showed up -- a greasy driver who talked a mile a minute. Of course he was greasy, that's his job. But a woman alone on a deserted country road knows in her bones that the tow truck guy could be a rapist. Did I worry about that? Nope, not really. I had the means to take care of myself and my kids if I needed to. Because I was confident, I was able to be friendly and forthright.

Eventually, the whole situation worked itself out, as these things do. Nobody offered me the slightest violence and because I was confident in my ability to take care of it if they did, I was able to be outgoing and friendly rather than frightened or churlishly suspicious in dealing with other people in what I considered to be a risky situation.

And that is why I carry a gun all the time.
I keep my gun on my hip or within reach at home for all the same reasons I carry my gun in public.

pax

*I do now.

Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be. -- Clementine Paddelford

blackmind

October 28, 2005, 12:17 AM

Yes, it is paranoid. I suppose if someone attacks you in the shower then the paranoia served you well - but if you don't feel comfortable enough to shower without a gun in the shower with you - you either need to move, get a more secure home, or stop showering.

Um, home invasions occur even in very exclusive neighborhoods, so your claim that anyone who feels the need to have a gun in the bathroom should move to where it's "safe" falls very flat. There is no place in the world where a criminal can't bring his attack. Every place is safe until a criminal attacks someone there.

Sorry guys but I just don't think it is possible to be 100% tactical at all times without quality of life suffering.

Well, here are numerous people telling you that they feel the need to do this and they do it. Ask them if they feel that doing it has diminished their quality of life. If they say, honestly, that no it has not, then again, your assertion falls flat in the face of reality.

I carry around town and around my house, too. My quality of life is just as it would be, but better, because I also know that I have the means to protect myself better than if I didn't have the gun with me.

-blackmind

blackmind

October 28, 2005, 12:25 AM

You folks need to get a dog. I got two wieners and they will alert me in 2 secs to any intruder. Already happened once. I was asleep with the sliding door open (nice spring day). My dogs went ballistic. I didn't pay much attention. They do this at folks walking by. Got up and my screen door was wide open.

Dogs will save your ass more times than a gun will.

Okay, so, you're in the shower, NO GUN there with you, and your ... ahem ... "wieners" start going ballistic...

What if they're doing it because someone has already busted down a door or knocked out a window, and they're on their way up through your bedroom and possibly to hear you in the shower?

Wouldn't it be a little late, then, to start scrambling for your hideout gun? :(

And you describe dogs that seem to cry wolf all the time. Now that they react that way even just for "folks walking by," how will you ever know if it's a genuine threat to which they are reacting?

-blackmind

springmom

October 28, 2005, 12:32 AM

We live in a nice, middle-class, new neighborhood in Harris County. Some of our church friends live in VERY VERY nice, way-upper-middle-class areas in Sugarland, in Ft. Bend County. Others live in Katy and other points west. Home invasions and terrorizing of families on their driveways, people hiding around the corner of houses until somebody drives up then pistolwhipping and carjacking them IN THEIR OWN DRIVEWAYS happens out there with alarming regularity. I went out recently to the Bass Pro Shop out on I-10 west of town and was very thankful that I had my permit and therefore my gun... people get robbed and carjacked and assaulted in broad daylight.

Sadly, blackmind is right. No place is without crime. No home cannot be the target of a home invasion. Even if your life is squeaky clean and no drug lord has any reason to target you, maybe he gets your house instead of the one with the same address and appearance one block over. Or you live in Ft. Bend county, in some of the nicest and most expensive real estate outside River Oaks (the area of Houston where #41 lives), but you're not safe on your driveway.

I carry in the house, and I don't take my gun out of my skirt or pants unless I am getting in the bath or going to bed, and then it is available within reach. As a stay at home mom, I feel much safer with that on my person, alone during the day, even though we do live in a nice, neighbors-watch-out-for-one-another type neighborhood. My overinflated $.02.

Springmom

Wildalaska

October 28, 2005, 12:43 AM

Sorry guys but I just don't think it is possible to be 100% tactical at all times without quality of life suffering.

And that is one of the most succint way of putting it I have ever seen.

I've had a CCW since I think 1981 (?) in such varied and sundry places as NY, NYC, Pennsylvania, Florida and Alaska. When i think of all the times I spent putting on a gun, spare mag, taking it off, locking it in trunk making sure it didjnt print, thinking about it on my hip, worrying about this, worry about that...instead of just....LIVING....

I wonder...

You can arm yourslef to the teeth, spend your whole life looking over your shoulder, carry nine guns and wear body armor, alarm your house, spend thousands of dollars on tactical schools...

And when the big guy calls your number...

Your going.....nothing is gonna stop it.

And think of all you missed.

I think that its typical of humans though....we tend to think that we, either individually or as a species, mean something...that we can somehow make a difference...that by our actions we can stop the march of time and nature and fate,,,,guess its our way of trying to conquer the fear of inevitable death,

Aint gonna happen. And when we are gone, the world will spin very nicely without us until the sun goes out

Now me, Im gonna take a shower, soap up, and not worry about the boogey man. if he doenst get me, something someday will

WildguessitsphilosophytimeAlaska

NB4ZOT

October 28, 2005, 07:35 AM

OK then get a Rotty or Doberman. Problem solved.

Most (if not all) would be intruders want nothing to do with a barking dog. I feel fine with my wieners to hold down the fort while I take my 4min shower.

Jack Malloy

October 28, 2005, 08:23 AM

I don't usually wear a gun when sitting around the house, but by Crom, I keep one handy, usually close to where I am at.
You never know when trouble might come a callin'.
My next door neighbor got robbed in broad daylight not long ago and we live 60 feet from the front door of a police station. His wife is now terrified that somebody might break in again, this time, when she is at home.

I would say that many people who keep a small arsenal of guns handy across a house do so, simply because they have several guns and don't keep them all in storage.
Up till the robbery, I kept half my stash of arms at home, figuring that way if the place where I stored the rest got burned down, I would still have half of them safe. After the robbery, I just put most of them into storage....

>>>he'd also show me a 1911 he'd have stashed in that particular room. After several rooms, I commented he had a lot of 45s out & about. He told me he had one in every room, because you never know which room you might be in when you suddenly need one. Might seem a little overboard to some, but the bad guys don't always creep in slowly. If they come in fast, that 45 in the spoon drawer, in the kitchen, might be just the ticket.
<<<<

LOL...That reminds me of the movie "The Punisher" where Thomas Jane had a .357 set up to pop out of a drawer in his kitchen. Of course, Kevin Nash mangled it with a big dumbell......

Russ538

October 28, 2005, 12:10 PM

There are some who only look one way before crossing a one-way street. Sure, the odds of someone driving the wrong way on the street at that same time you are crossing are unlikely, but there's nothing wrong with being prepared and checking both directions.

It's all a matter of how one looks at the odds. The odds of some events may be very, very small, but some people say to themselves that they refuse to be a part of that unlikely but possible statistic.

WildAlaska,

Interesting point, but I personally don't believe in fate. I don't believe that my time is up when my time is up. I want to die of old age. Either that, or doing something I love. Not by the hands of some scumbag.

I will do everything I can to keep myself alive for as long as I can. It obviously works differently if you believe in fate, or believe that your time of death is pre-determined.

Wildalaska

October 28, 2005, 12:38 PM

I don't believe that my time is up when my time is up.

Then you dont beleive in the immutable laws of the universe :)

WildhubrisAlaska

pax

October 28, 2005, 01:37 PM

WildAlaska ~

My sig.

pax

What people commonly call fate is mostly their own stupidity. -- Arthur Schopenhauer

Wildalaska

October 28, 2005, 02:15 PM

What people commonly call fate is mostly their own stupidity. -- Arthur Schopenhauer

Trite quotes from a two bit philosopher dont change the laws of nature or physics.

WildchaosAlaska

stratus

October 28, 2005, 02:29 PM

I've had a CCW since I think 1981 (?) in such varied and sundry places as NY, NYC, Pennsylvania, Florida and Alaska. When i think of all the times I spent putting on a gun, spare mag, taking it off, locking it in trunk making sure it didjnt print, thinking about it on my hip, worrying about this, worry about that...instead of just....LIVING....

I wonder...

You can arm yourslef to the teeth, spend your whole life looking over your shoulder, carry nine guns and wear body armor, alarm your house, spend thousands of dollars on tactical schools...

And when the big guy calls your number...

Your going.....nothing is gonna stop it.

Some people enjoy spending all their time doing that, though, which is cool in my book. Being tactical can be an excellent source of entertainment for oneself. I mean, if people hated doing it, they wouldn't... would they? There has to be some appeal in it.

I think it's possible to live, have other hobbies, train to draw and shoot well, and carry without having to worry about it. For me, being tactical does not necessitate walking around in stage 3 body armor, it's more of a daily process of making judgment calls that are safe and smart, and this is reinforced until it becomes second nature. The quality of my life has not suffered from this. There's no questioning that we're all gonna go someday, and that we only have a certain measure of control over our own fate, which diminishes continually with the passage of time. That said, I think that if people want to indulge themselves in the most tactical behavior possible, then go for it. It has the bonus of being much more than a mere indulgence in terms of practicality, which is more than can be said for many popular past-times. :)

tuckerdog1

October 28, 2005, 04:36 PM

Sgtdemeo, I think JohnKSa summed it up pretty well. Being prepared is not necessarily the same as being paranoid. Life's little experiences help one set their own limits about how being prepared is defined. I've always lived in what I'd call middle to maybe slightly upper middle class neighborhoods. My parents have had their home broken into 4 times. When my brother was younger, he worked at an 24 hr gas station. He was paraded around the place with a gun to his head, continually threatened with murder, while the place & he were robbed. I worked at another store, and was robbed at gunpoint. Was forced to lie face down behind the counter after the $$ was turned over. I just knew it was execution time. You can't imagine the relief when I heard the door open & the POS depart. At 0300 in the AM, I once had a pounding at my front door. I was angry that it might be a friend of mine, who is an alcoholic. It turned out to be a rape victim. She had been going door to door trying to get help. Nobody would answer their door to a stranger at that hour. I was willing because I had a gun in my pocket. A friend that lived 2 blocks away couldn't back her car out of the driveway to go to work one morning, because there was a murder victim in her driveway. Now these kind of things don't happen all the time. This was over a 30 year period. But crime does reach out & touch. And after getting a 2nd chance, after not being headshot during the store robbery, I promised myself I wouldn't be so easily put in that situation again.
I don't keep a gun in every room, like my co-worker. But I have 4 around the house, and one of those 4 is in the bathroom.
I also keep a fire extinguisher in each car, two in the kitchen, one in the garage & two in my shop.

I sleep like a baby.

Tuckerdog1

John28226

October 28, 2005, 05:12 PM

Tucker, I applaud your logic and your ability to put into words thoughts that make sense. I think the original question had something to do with taking a gun with you into the shower. Seems the answer is some do and some don't. After that I got a little confused. What difference does it make to anyone else when and where I or anyone else choose to have a gun? As long as we are not breaking a law, why should anyone else make remarks about our mental health? In short, who cares?

Anyone who thinks that "when you go you go" and lets that concept rule their lives should take a job painting the line down the middle of the Interstate - during rush hour!

History tells us that you can indeed delay your meeting of our Creator.

When Richard Speck was asked about his murder of eight nurses in their apartment his answer was, "It just was not their day". (and yes, that is a quote - read the case if you doubt it).

When I carry and where I carry is a calculated decision to attempt to extend my life. I may go, but I don't plan to go easily.

John
Charlotte, NC

zzirg

October 28, 2005, 05:46 PM

I personally think a gun in the shower is a bit on the carried away side,making sure your doors are locked,windows are locked are normal security measures unless you actually are expecting an intruder like an angry neighbor or something.The next thing you know people will be saying thats not my ^&*# THATS MY GUN BARREL, while in bed making whoopie. My thoughts are that many imaginations are hyped by the gun stories they hear ,thats not to say that there all fake.I have had 2 gun incidance's myself....just my thoughts on the subject. That doesn't mean to say that i think your all paranoid.You have to put things in there right perspective however ,someone in a small town setting has a smaller percentage of an attack by someone then somebody who lives in a larger city.Now if i lived in downtown L.A ,DETROIT,CHICAGO,BOSTON or somewhere like that i might be joining you with the idea of a gun in the shower.

Eightball

October 28, 2005, 06:03 PM

Gun in the shower? Paranoid
Gun on the bathroom counter, next to the shower? Not paranoid.

My question isn't "am I paranoid to take it in the shower", my question is---where would you put it in the shower?

Wildalaska

October 28, 2005, 06:08 PM

When Richard Speck was asked about his murder of eight nurses in their apartment his answer was, "It just was not their day". (and yes, that is a quote - read the case if you doubt it).

From Schopenauer to Richard Speck:eek: :D

WildthegreatphilosophersAlaska

Dead-Nuts-Zero

October 28, 2005, 06:21 PM

I looked in on this post when it was just getting started and I often drop back to see what others are saying. However, I have not read every post, but as I read a few today, I started thinking back to the days when I first started out with a hand gun. I was brought up on guns and hunting and the country life was so much different than the big city. When I was starting to CCW, I had to strap that 6 gun on everytime I went to the city (or to the gas station just down the road) to have dinner or do some mall shopping with the girlfriend etc. I was new at CCW and it was new to me and maybe a little overwhelming. I remember it was kinda kool because I had a gun and nobody but me knew about it. I felt almost invincible when I was packin thoes first few years.

Now that I have several years of CCW and many trips going into the big city, I seldom think of packin my gun these days. I guess the point I am trying to make is that I think we all go through a period where we are over confident (not sure that's the right word for my thoughts but lets go with it for now) and we think it's really kool to pack and believe we are invincible. It does wear off after awhile with many of us. Then there are plenty of us who just never get over it. I can't really say one way is any better than the other. Everyone has to do whatever they are comfortable with.
I find the many post interesting. If your a city guy you may have better reason to CCW than us country bumpkins. And if yr from the woods, you feel better with CCW when you go to the city. If yr in the shower, you do what ever you think you need to do. We all decide for ourselves. No one is really right or wrong IMO, it whatever blows yr skirt up that counts. I got over it and most of us will too in time.

tuckerdog1

October 28, 2005, 06:22 PM

Zzirg, your correct, everybody's situation varies, and as long as they're comfortable with that situation, okay. Hope it works out for them.
I have some very good friends down the street. They've lived in this neighborhood 24 years. They don't, like or own guns. Their choice, and I don't push my pro gun views on them. They have never, and still don't, lock their doors. Even when they leave on a vacation, doors unlocked. And this is one of the nicer homes in the neighborhood. 4000+ sq ft, 1.5 acre lot, pool. Screams " NICE STUFF IN HERE!" I usually take care of their pets & plants when they take trips. It creeps me out everytime, when I 1st go down there to feed & water and the door just opens. I alway lock the place up when I'm caring for it. Their comfort level is a LOT more lax than mine.

Tuckerdog1

blackmind

October 28, 2005, 06:29 PM

I wonder...

You can arm yourslef to the teeth, spend your whole life looking over your shoulder, carry nine guns and wear body armor, alarm your house, spend thousands of dollars on tactical schools...

And when the big guy calls your number...

Your going.....nothing is gonna stop it.

And think of all you missed.

I think there is a lot of fallacy to this "your number is up when your number is up" philosophy.

For one thing, if you are saying that nothing we do to protect ourselves from harm can do anything to save us if "our number is up" on a given day at a given activity, then is the converse true, that we can cross streets without looking, pack our parachutes carelessly, eat food past its expiration date, all because "fate" plans that we will die in a boating accident on some specific day?

If someone is too busy dialing his cellular phone as he crosses the street, and he gets hit by a bus, are you saying that he was fated to get hit by that bus, or maybe even fated to dial the cellular phone at that moment so that he would get hit by that bus?... I just don't get it.

But mainly I think that if you believe that every death is predestined, that should mean that everything else can't kill you. Of course, if you don't have some way of knowing what exactly will be the thing that will kill you, you might just try to be careful and safe at everything. Then, when you finally lapse in your cautiousness, at some given activity, and you die, you kind of "fated" yourself to die at that.

The whole notion of fate is hogwash to me, though.

Here's another quote about it, Pax. It's by the rock group Rush:

"Fate is just the weight of circumstances."

Meaning, fate is nothing more than the sum accumulation of actual working factors. If a pulley on a crane is worn, and some guy who was supposed to inspect it was working off a hangover and missed the damage, and then I happen to have to drive by the spot where the crane is because a car accident on my normal route blocks off the road, and the pulley breaks and the crane's load falls from the cable and smooshes me, you could say that was "fate," but it really comes down to the fact that the surrounding factors led to me being in the so-called "wrong place at the wrong time."

If a person dies in a house fire because he never got himself a smoke detector, does it mean that he was "fated" to die that way?

Was he not supposed to even bother to attempt to interfere in "fate" by getting one?

What about the same guy, in an alternate reality, who did install a smoke detector, and the same fire doesn't kill him? Was he meddling? Does the fact that he staved off death by fire mean that he overrode fate, or just that there is no fate but what we make (to coin a phrase)?

-blackmind

blackmind

October 28, 2005, 06:43 PM

Now that I have several years of CCW and many trips going into the big city, I seldom think of packin my gun these days. I guess the point I am trying to make is that I think we all go through a period where we are over confident (not sure that's the right word for my thoughts but lets go with it for now) and we think it's really kool to pack and believe we are invincible. It does wear off after awhile with many of us. Then there are plenty of us who just never get over it. I can't really say one way is any better than the other. Everyone has to do whatever they are comfortable with.

I don't carry a gun because I am over-confident, or think I am invincible. The exact opposite of the latter part: I know I am not invincible. The gun is a tool to help me be the equal (or better) than someone who may confront me with criminal harm in mind. Like many people, I keep my humility about me; I don't go into "trouble spots" and I avoid them deliberately, because I know my gun does not make me bullet-proof, and it is not an excuse to force myself into a situation where I have to use it.

Contrary to what you say, it hasn't "worn off" me after 12 years of carrying. Now, carrying is a matter of course, and I would be likely to feel "naked" without a gun (like I do when on vacation where I can't bring the gun). It's an uncomfortable feeling of exposure, to realize that the gun you carry daily because it may come into play to save your life is not available to you. You suddenly have to think about what else you would have to do if a criminal attacked. Suddenly you are not quite the guy who could stand and fight; now you have to think about escape, appeasement of the aggressor, etc., and you are very much at a disadvantage because one of your major means of making things come out your way is gone.

You simply have fewer options to pick from to get out of a bad situation if you have disavailed yourself of a gun.

-blackmind

Wildalaska

October 28, 2005, 06:53 PM

The whole notion of fate is hogwash to me, though.

What a bummer.... you were actually thinking before you made that statement. On the other hand, your comment ;

"Meaning, fate is nothing more than the sum accumulation of actual working factors" is almost correct, add the word "random" where it belongs. Your own example of the drive by crane crash demonstrates this

If you are more interested in the bases of my post, study up on Chaos theory and The Theory of Randomness. a little exploration about Evolutionary Biology and paleantology together with a good dose of Hawking and Aleatory Theory will liven it up.

WilditsallplayAlaska

spacemanspiff

October 28, 2005, 07:16 PM

whatever you had for lunch today, were NOT having it tomorrow!!!

i'll bring you a nice crispy creamy arteryclogging donut to set your day off right tomorrow. enough of this vegan diet you've been on!

fate - we will all die deaths more horrible than we wished for.

BigFunWMU

October 28, 2005, 07:17 PM

A friend of the family was in the shower and thought he heard a noise in the house. He had his (brought home from Korea) 1911 on the counter by the sink, so he put on a towel picked it up and went to go see who was out there.

He found a guy in his late 20's poking around his bedroom.

In that condo community in Florida, the exterminators come around once every 3 months or so, just to keep the buggies out. They are supposed to knock and make sure anyone in the condo knows they are there, and if anyone is home, they must get permission to enter. He had his front door locked, and never heard a knock, announcement or anything. He did hear someone open his bedroom door and start walking around.

Yes the guy used to have a key (he had it taken away at gunpoint shortly after he was discovered in there), and the talk with his supervisor went something like: "That punk kid you got workin for you just about got his dumb a$$ shot. I took my key back, and if you have any other copies, give them back now. I can kill ants just fine on my own"

Paranoid? no
Prudent? perhaps

Whats the point of having a gun for defence if its not with you?

Ben

JohnKSa

October 28, 2005, 07:19 PM

when the big guy calls your number...

Your going.....nothing is gonna stop it.There's no arguing this, but it is worth qualifying.

Some take this to the extreme--they don't lock their doors at night nor look both ways when crossing the street because: "When it's your time you'll go."

Others go to the other extreme and think that they can "stay up past their bedtime" if they take all the right precautions.

Both are wrong.

Look both ways when crossing the street. Take reasonable precautions against crime, against fire, against injury in auto accidents. Because while you may not be able to extend your life, you can surely shorten it!

Don't let fear keep you from crossing the street. Don't let reasonable precautions turn into obsessions. Because not everything is under your control, and trying to make it so will make you crazy.

But most of all (and this is what this thread was supposed to be about) be aware of what goes on in the world and of its possible impact on your life. Because until you realize the possibilities, it's impossible to determine what a "reasonable precaution" really is.

johnnymenudo

November 2, 2005, 01:35 PM

Um, home invasions occur even in very exclusive neighborhoods, so your claim that anyone who feels the need to have a gun in the bathroom should move to where it's "safe" falls very flat. There is no place in the world where a criminal can't bring his attack. Every place is safe until a criminal attacks someone there.

I never said anything about exclusive neighborhoods, so don't put words in my mouth. Anyone can be a victim of crime, but if your house is insecure or if you live in a high crime area, you are more likely to be a victim than someone who has good locks, solid doors, and a secure home design. Sure you can get robbed anywhere but statistically speaking some places are safer than others. If you want to spend every minute of your life clutching your firearm and looking over your shoulder, have at it. I would prefer to be live my life with a healthy sense of caution and preparedness, but not be a slave to fear.

JM

blackmind

November 2, 2005, 07:02 PM

pax

November 2, 2005, 07:52 PM

Six pages -- and most posters' argument boils down to, "If you don't do it MY way, you're a fool."

Sad.

pax

Most people can't understand how others can blow their noses differently than they do. -- Ivan Turgenev

blackmind

November 2, 2005, 08:23 PM

It's called "the Human Condition," Pax. Ain't never gonna change.

People are built this way. They are not the same, so they are bound to think differently about various subjects. Difference easily spawn misunderstanding, distrust, disagreement, dislike...

How long can you stay sad about it? You have to observe that it's been this way for umpteen thousands of years! WE'RE supposed to be the generation that will put it to rest? I'll bet every generation since the world began felt that way. It's utterly unrealistic.

What many of us DO hope to do, though, is change those minds that we feel are looking at a subject with a faulty filter; those minds that are not being logical or rational about subjects that call for those traits.

If I have a vaccine for diptheria, and I bring it to some backward African nation, and the "leaders" of the tribe I bring it to tell their followers that I am a demon and the vaccine will hurt them, we have a disagreement. Based on fact or opinion, who can say? But ONLY ONE OF US IS RIGHT and telling the objective truth. As the one who really can claim the truth is on his side, I would feel justified if I really hammered on about my views on the subject -- even to the point of possibly ridiculing the notion that I'm a demon.

-blackmind

johnnymenudo

November 3, 2005, 01:28 AM

If it's so easy to just yank yourself and/or your family right out of the low-income, high-crime areas right into the bucolic suburbs where crime is near zero, I guess I just can't figure out why everyone living in the inner cities hasn't done it already!

Maybe it's not as simple as "moving to a better area." Maybe that takes more money and resources than some people have. So IF they are "stuck" there -- even if just for a time -- they should not keep a gun near them in the home because it's "paranoid"?

I am not sure if you are referring to my post but never once did I say anything about suburbs vs inner city vs. X. If so, your reply is trying to minimize the validity of my points by fabricating scenarios that I have not even inferred. It never once said that inner city dwellers should move to bucolic suburbs. Again I will say this. If you feel that where you live is so dangerous that you have to have a gun in the shower, then you have to ask yourself why am I staying here? I am referring to TFL members since that is who is involved in this discussion. If someone can spend money on guns and internet access and computers, then they should have the resources to get out of the weekly rate motel and into an apartment with a solid core door and some bars on the windows at the very least. Let's say that they have no choice and crime is all around them - then feel free to carry a gun everywhere. I highly doubt however that many of us if any live in that kind of an environment. I think the average person has a better chance of slipping in the shower and getting fatally injured in the fall then they do of having a home invader attack them while showering. Maybe the best choice is just not to shower.

JM

stratus

November 3, 2005, 02:54 AM

First off, +1 for what blackmind said.

Now for the other thing....

I think the average person has a better chance of slipping in the shower and getting fatally injured in the fall then they do of having a home invader attack them while showering. Maybe the best choice is just not to shower.

No way would I give up washing. Do I look like an Frenchman to you?

Jack Malloy

November 3, 2005, 08:56 AM

No place is any safer than any other.
There is no such thing as a safe place, only safe PEOPLE.
There is no such thing as a dangerous place, only dangerous PEOPLE.
People get around.

My next door neighbor is a vietnam vet and an ex police officer. He got robbed this past summer despite the fact that we live SIXTY FEET away from the FRONT DOOR of the police station, in a peaceful little town.
Last winter US Marshalls arrested a seriel killer from Chicago who was living in the next lane.
We have lived there for years with no problems and no crimes. Then BAM!
Crap can happen anywhere, at any time to anybody.
If you are not properly prepared IT CAN happen to you.
Telling yourself that you live in a safe area and you dont have to prepare and you dont have to worry about it is nothing but LYING to YOURSELF and heaven help you when fate steps in and proves you wrong.

I heard a wonderful example of this Bullcrap Thinking this morning on the local radio station. They were talking about some moronic report about workplace safety and noted that many employers prohibit any weapons on the premisis.
Boy, thats smart. If somebody is going to go ahead and KILL a coworker and commit Murder (homicide, which is against the law) does anybody HONESTLY think that such an individual is going to obey a no weapons in the workplace rule?
All that does is ensures to the whackos out there that they will have some defenseless victims to prey upon.

clt46910

November 3, 2005, 11:07 AM

If you think about it, if you wanted to kill someone and didn't care about yourself(think extremely angry or deranged), the best place would be at their work. Very few people will carry at work for fear of lossing their jobs because of such rules. Always in the car or left at home.

PythonGuy

November 3, 2005, 11:23 AM

My thought is I wouldn't do it, but if someone else wants to go right ahead. Its their house and their property, if they feel safer, great. Like Pax was saying, I can't put my ways on anyone , nor do I want to. We all need to get through our lives the best way we can, if this works for some, so be it.

seth

November 7, 2005, 05:50 AM

for those of you who leave the pistol in arms reach while showering:

If its a single action weapon like a 1911, are you telling me you have a round chambered and the safety OFF? Or are you giving enough time to grab the gun, rack the slide, then take aim if surprised by a bathroom invader?

blackmind

November 7, 2005, 02:28 PM

Seth, you left out the possibility of cocked-and-locked if the gun is a 1911. That means loaded chamber, hammer cocked, safety on. All you need to do is drop the safety, aim and fire. No racking the slide necessary. And, who says that the invader is already in the bathroom? That's one possibility. Others include hearing breaking glass in another room, hearing a door being pounded on, hearing a dog responding to a stranger...

Having the gun there in the bathroom with you is simply prudent, much wiser than leaving it out in the bedroom or wherever it would be "stored" normally when not being used for personal defense. Why force yourself to have to go get it when a threat is already in the process of presenting itself? Because you're embarrassed that a bunch of guys and women on TFL might call you paranoid? For me, so be it. I keep my gun as close when at home as when I go out. No reason not to.

-blackmind

blackmind

November 7, 2005, 02:33 PM

If your a city guy you may have better reason to CCW than us country bumpkins.

I always thought that it was at least equally important, since it is well-known that police response in sparsely populated areas can be up to like 1/2 hour away! Who's gonna take care of you for that period of time, if on the crazy-odd chance someone and his buddies take a dislike to you?

What if some meth-lab-running psycho gets some bum information that your house belongs to the dudes who tried to rip him off? And one night he comes calling with a few other guys. You don't have to have done anything wrong for someone to mistakenly start coming after you! So IF they do some day, what can you do if you've left your guard down? I'm not saying to roam your house with your AR-15 slung over your shoulder, a tac-vest on, sidearm in your Fobus holster and an attack German Shepherd on a leash, for cryin' out loud. But if you HAVE a handgun that could save your life from an attack, why not have it NEAR you??

-blackmind

k9lwt

November 11, 2005, 02:19 PM

I think it's a little paranoid. If you are washing soap off your face, your eyes will be closed for a few seconds and you won't even see the threat.

stevensc

November 11, 2005, 10:32 PM

If you were robbed, or worse, wouldn't it be awfull to think:
"Damn! I went to all the trouble of getting a CCW permit and keeping it up to date, practiced at the range, had a safe full of guns, and when I really needed one it wasn't there!"
Having said that I very seldom carry but have been trying to get used to it and into the habit of having one on me or near by whenever possible. I always have one in the console of my vehicle and in the nightstand.
Steve

JohnKSa

November 12, 2005, 01:59 AM

stevensc,

I have long found it ironic that people go to great lengths and expense to carry in public where it's difficult, fraught with legal complications and practical considerations and yet often don't even think about (or are even against) carrying where they can almost always legally carry and do it for free--on their own property and in their own homes.

stratus

November 12, 2005, 02:51 AM

And, who says that the invader is already in the bathroom? That's one possibility. Others include hearing breaking glass in another room, hearing a door being pounded on, hearing a dog responding to a stranger...

I agree. I don't have a decent place IN the actual shower to reach for my weapon, but I do have one of those towel racks in the shower, so it's feasible to be able to hang a holster from it. (I could drape a towel over the holster, even though my bathroom gun is a USP and relatively insensitive to excess moisture in the air).

Meanwhile, I still keep the gun NEXT to the shower. I have a relatively small apartment, and there are only three ways that an intruder could readily gain access. The front door (a metal door which is double-bolted when I am home and would require multiple kicks), the sliding glass door on the patio (tempered glass, would raise a racket) and the bedroom window (probably still loud enough to hear over the shower if broken). So, I guess I'd have time to react. I wouldn't want to put myself in a situation where the intruder had the opportunity to get into the bathroom without my knowing it, cause there's a gun right there for the taking.

Actually... I'm gonna go mess with a way to keep the gun hanging from the towel rack. A fanny pack fastened around the towel rack should do nicely... I dunno why I didn't think of that before, though.

So what are you waiting for, call me paranoid! :D

model 25

November 12, 2005, 03:22 AM

In the camps of Iraq all the troops carry a weapon with them at all times. I was driving on the east side of the camp when the mortars came in. The first round hit behind my truck dead center in the road.

Second round hit 50 meters further into the camp and the third hit about 100 meters into the camp. All three were 80 mm in size. The last round that hit was a 120 mm. It came down through the male showers roof and out a wall and never exploded, they forgot to arm the fuze.

The guys inside the shower were real happy:D Not their time to go.:) Sorry, just had to tell my shower exspearience

25

Russ538

November 13, 2005, 01:04 AM

I can certainly see having a gun in the bathroom. If someone were to break in to your house, the bathroom is probably the worst place to be unarmed. No exits, not even a place to hide.

If you had a gun available to you in the bathroom and heard someone break into your house, or possibly attempting to break the bathroom door down, wouldn't take long to chamber a round and prepare to fire.

I wouldn't exactly have the thing hanging around my neck while in the shower, but I wouldn't call it paranoid to have a gun somewhere in the bathroom while showering, especially if no one else was home.

John 242

November 13, 2005, 03:35 AM

......Don't let reasonable precautions turn into obsessions. Because not everything is under your control, and trying to make it so will make you crazy.
But most of all (and this is what this thread was supposed to be about) be aware of what goes on in the world and of its possible impact on your life. Because until you realize the possibilities, it's impossible to determine what a "reasonable precaution" really is.

+1
I could rant for an hour, but I think you nailed it.

stratus

November 13, 2005, 03:49 AM

......Don't let reasonable precautions turn into obsessions. Because not everything is under your control, and trying to make it so will make you crazy.
John, I think you have a good point, but I would stipulate that if you can reasonably devise a system of getting your gun into the shower with you while keeping it dry, then it would qualify as a reasonable precaution. Keeping a gun in or near the shower is no more or less paranoid than keeping a gun by your bedside. The only reason that you're more likely to have a home invasion when you sleep as opposed to shower, is due to the disparity of the amount of time typically spent during each activity. You probably spend much more of your time sleeping than you do showering. But this certainly doesn't preclude the possibility of someone gaining entry to your home while you are showering, and so I don't see the rationale for considering it unreasonable to have a gun within reach while practicing hygiene. Would you elect not to wear your seat belt just because it was 3 AM, few (if any) cars on the road, and you were not traveling on a major highway?

It boils down to this: One should either be in the practice of keeping a gun handy, or not. Be consistent, one way or the other. Anything else is liable to confuse you when you encounter a BG in your home. One does not need to obsess over something in order to practice it and allow it to become second nature.

John 242

November 13, 2005, 09:39 PM

Startus;
I agree with what you are saying.
I don't carry into the shower, but I do carry 99% of the time around the home.
I live in a fairly peaceful community, but as JohnKSa alluded to, I have come to realize that I may need my firearm without warning. This is a personal decision on my part. I choose to remain armed as often as possible.
I want my pistol to be on my person, rather than on a shelf or hidden in a drawer. Thats how I choose to live my life, and I feel my quality of life is neither degraded nor inconvenienced. I choose to have a pistol on my person, despite the fact that I realize that the possibilities of using that weapon are statistically slim. If I need it, it's on me. If not, then so be it.
I am giving up nothing, and I do not live in a paronoia clouded fear.
I acknowledge the odds, plan for the worst, and hope for the best.
Take care,
John

JohnKSa

November 13, 2005, 11:04 PM

stratus,

I wasn't really advocating carrying a gun in the shower--and I agree with you that keeping a firearm handy all the time is a lot more reasonable than trying to decide when the situation warrants one.

springmom

November 13, 2005, 11:23 PM

...Wouldn't having your gun in the shower be bad for the gun? Hot water, soap, steam, getting on/in the gun?

Mine is on the counter when I'm in the bath or shower, but IN THE SHOWER? Seems to me you're taking a risk damaging the gun, but maybe I'm missing something.

Springmom who would like her gun to stay dry and functional :)

stratus

November 14, 2005, 01:46 AM

Springmom:

Very valid concern. I was working on a method of devising a system to keep the gun dry. I have a detachable towel rack in my shower. I keep two plastic grocery bags (double-bagged) hanging from this rack, with a towel in the bag to support the gun and absorb excess particles of moisture in the air (which, I've observed, doesn't get in there anyway, the water from the shower head entirely misses it.) It doesn't get much steamier in that part of the shower than it does in the rest of the bathroom. FWIW, my bathroom gun is the USP (and suited for harsh conditions), not the 1911. Also, I remove the gun as soon as I am done showering, and the showers I take are neither hot enough nor long enough to really cause an abundance of steam. Some steam, yes. But I definitely keep it away from soap, water, and do my best to protect it against concentrated amounts of water in the air, etc.

John and John: In actuality, my name is also John, and the three of us are in total agreement. :D

RochPersDef

November 27, 2005, 06:17 PM

That's why I own a Glock and have a Fobus holster mounted to the shower door.
Actually, just kidding. Do whatever you feel you need to do, just try to look at it from another person's point of view. Could you articulate what you are doing and have it make sense? Remember, there is a fine line between cautious and paranoid.

Jack Malloy

November 28, 2005, 10:19 AM

Boys, its like the old timers used to say.
"It's better to HAVE IT and not need it than to need it and not HAVE it."

I keep a peice on a shelf next to the shower between some towels. The towels keep the moisture from getting to the gun. Becuase i am a worrier, I usually keep my Glock there, but have been known to leave a revolver there. the revolver has a carbon steel hammer and trigger and so far they have not rusted.
Glocks are fairly impervious to rust.
In the past, I have seen more corrossion problems in other parts of the house due to cold weather in the winter.
If you use a blue gun, just do what I do, then wait for the steam and such to evaporate and move your gun to a drier area.....

<<<<""Wouldn't having your gun in the shower be bad for the gun? Hot water, soap, steam, getting on/in the gun?

Mine is on the counter when I'm in the bath or shower, but IN THE SHOWER? Seems to me you're taking a risk damaging the gun, but maybe I'm missing something.

?"""<<<<

gddyup

November 28, 2005, 03:39 PM

I have it with me in the bathroom regardless of what I'm doing. I have it in a position where I can get at it within 2 seconds if needed. I don't have it inside the shower with me, but close enough to get at if needed in under those 2 seconds. Hopefully, my German Shephard will give me enough time to get at it and be ready if the SEHTF...

ozzy1038

November 30, 2005, 12:08 AM

To each their own. Paranoia keeps you safe.

progunner1957

November 30, 2005, 12:24 AM

I don't think that is paranoid. When I take a shower, I do not have a gun actually in the shower, byt it is on the bathroom sink counter, which is 37" from the shower stall door.:D

Who says "your turn" won't come when you are in the shower? It is better to be prepared than sorry you weren't - and possibly dead as a result.

ozzy1038

November 30, 2005, 01:20 AM

LOL. I meant for anyone calling it paranoid or accusing people of paranoia, that paranoia keeps you on your toes thereby keeping you safe. Although I guess it can make some people do some crazy things. A few dictators come to mind.

Are you sure 37" is close enough?;) Maybe you should put it in a ziploc and hang it from the shower head.:D NOW THATS PARANOID!! LOL

czc3513

December 7, 2005, 04:47 AM

I can hardly believe that this thread is still going.
Its even worded funny.
In the shower or in the bathroom?

Russ538

December 7, 2005, 12:38 PM

Well, it was technically dead for a week, before you brought it back again. :D

springmom

December 7, 2005, 01:57 PM

This whole thread was very much on my mind the other day when I got "surprised" in the shower (stall, not part of the bathtub). Thankfully it was the hubster home before I expected. The doors were locked, and while the alarm was not armed, it chimes whenever a window opens or a door opens, and that usually is enough to tell me someone has entered. Dogs were inside and on duty.

And I knew he was there when he walked into the bathroom. Not before. The noise of water running drowns out everything short of an alarm system, apparently. I don't know if the dogs barked, never heard the chime, and apparently didn't even here his usual call of "hello". Had he been a bad guy, I'd have been sunk.:eek:

So the moral of the story is: take a bath instead. :D

Springmom

PythonGuy

December 7, 2005, 02:07 PM

In the interest of good taste the following should NOT be asked of springmom:

1) In the shower, where do you holster your gun?:rolleyes:

2) Was your husband armed, or was he just happy to see you?:D

3) Did he join you?:p

Serious question, how come your bathroom door wasn't locked?????

PS: I have some relatives in Spring, we visited them a couple of years ago, nice place, although we went in June and it was HOT.

PythonGuy

December 7, 2005, 02:13 PM

While I think everyone should do what they need to to feel safe, I honestly thought stratus was kidding with his "hidden gun" trick. To each their own but it begs the question, where do you keep your gun when you are making love? You are even more vulnerable at that moment then when taking a shower, so where does the line get drawn for those that carry at all times? Or when you get to the "being armed all the time" stage, is it not even an issue?

IZinterrogator

December 7, 2005, 04:02 PM

where do you keep your gun when you are making love?Same place I keep it when I sleep. I have a headboard with bookshelves built into it and I keep it there. It has caused some suprise when the headboard was shaking so badly that the gun and spare magazines came flying off the shelf onto the bed during the act (well, it didn't suprise me, at least :D ).

USP45usp

December 7, 2005, 04:24 PM

where do you keep your gun when you are making love?

:eek: it looks like we're getting into the TMI arena here :eek:

Wayne

*as in, I don't think I really need to know that much information :p

PythonGuy

December 7, 2005, 06:34 PM

Just being a little lighthearted in making a point USP45usp, as in when is enough too much?:cool:

springmom

December 7, 2005, 06:42 PM

....Just when I think it can't get any worse!!!! :eek: :D You guys are hilarious.

Springmom

spacemanspiff

December 7, 2005, 07:07 PM

It has caused some suprise when the headboard was shaking so badly that the gun and spare magazines came flying off the shelf onto the bed during the act
i'm stripping away 5 points of ninjatude from you for being so untactical in that you have a headboard. i bet you dont give the springs a weekly drop of breakfree either, do ya, ya untactical nuuby nuub!

real ninjas risk neither life nor limb by engaging in such activities only on concrete flooring with thick carpet padding to mask any possible noises. they also keep one eye focused on the cc video feeds from the various cameras around the home. i bet you dont even have the audio piped in to your wireless headset!

you're so untactical it hurts.

:eek: :D

RevolverLover

December 7, 2005, 07:10 PM

i'm stripping away 5 points of ninjatude from you for being so untactical in that you have a headboard. i bet you dont give the springs a weekly drop of breakfree either, do ya, ya untactical nuuby nuub!

real ninjas risk neither life nor limb by engaging in such activities only on concrete flooring with thick carpet padding to mask any possible noises. they also keep one eye focused on the cc video feeds from the various cameras around the home. i bet you dont even have the audio piped in to your wireless headset!

you're so untactical it hurts.

Thats the funniest thing I heard all day. :D

IZinterrogator

December 8, 2005, 12:23 AM

real ninjas risk neither life nor limb by engaging in such activities only on concrete flooring with thick carpet padding to mask any possible noises.I tried that one time with a woman that I was at the bar with. Unfortunately, we took her vehicle back to her place, so I was without my tactical knee pads at the time (lesson learned, never leave your mobile ninja command post more than 200 yards away). Oh, the rug burn. :p
they also keep one eye focused on the cc video feeds from the various cameras around the home. i bet you dont even have the audio piped in to your wireless headset!Don't need it with the IR laser grid security system that alerts me to anyone within 7 yards of my property line. I can relax while being fully alerted to any threats which can then be dealt with accordingly. Makes you wish you had spent your money on one of those instead of a can, doesn't it? :D
....Just when I think it can't get any worse!!!! You guys are hilarious.What, you think I'm making up the headboard story?

spacemanspiff

December 8, 2005, 12:58 PM

Don't need it with the IR laser grid security system that alerts me to anyone within 7 yards of my property line. I can relax while being fully alerted to any threats which can then be dealt with accordingly. Makes you wish you had spent your money on one of those instead of a can, doesn't it?
yeah but my system doesnt have me going on all-out alert because the neighbors cat or kid trips the alarms. and 7 yards??? you want me to believe you can slip back into your gear and armor up and deploy weapons in time enough to deal with the supposed threat that is within 21 feet? surely you jest!

my system gives me all the time in the world to prepare. i can even customize my loadout based on the intel my cc video and audio gives me. wheres the 'neener' similie?

IZinterrogator

December 8, 2005, 06:20 PM

i can even customize my loadout based on the intel my cc video and audio gives me.You just keep your eyes and ears on that audio/video feed, Spiff. I'll be paying attention to the audio and video feedback coming from the woman with me, instead. ;)

spacemanspiff

December 8, 2005, 06:25 PM

whoa, hold the ketchup! you're doing all this with a woman present? i knew i forgot something!
:D

Weeg

December 8, 2005, 06:39 PM

Gun in the shower paranoid? I don't think it would be to this guy...

http://www.phrank.com/images/sh/season1/utg-03-40-29.jpg
http://www.phrank.com/images/sh/season1/utg-04-11-22.jpg

IZinterrogator

December 8, 2005, 06:40 PM

The low female to male ratio of Alaska strikes again. Does someone want to teach Spiff how this sort of thing is supposed to work?

106RR

December 9, 2005, 04:04 AM

There has been a lot of humor on this thread and I like that. In a more serious vein there was a case in San Jose, Ca where the woman was taking a shower in her apartment when an intruder came in with a key. He worked for a plumbing maintenance company (the one with a skunk on the truck) and had been given a master key by the apartment manager. He said his intent was only to burglarize but he found a naked woman in the shower. He went into the bathroom with a kitchen knife in an apparent attempt to rape. She was stabbed repeatedly and ran from the apaprtment naked and bleeding. She bled to death very quickly on the front lawn in front of her neighbors. He was on parole.
I have forgotten her name but she was a nice lady who worked at a local hospital.
The statement that his intent was only to burglarize was made after he got a lawyer. Perhaps you might want to give some serious thought to your security arrangements.

Jericho9mm

April 26, 2006, 10:06 AM

i kinda wanted to revive this thread due to a comment in another thread. but i have thought about it and decided that a small stainless revolver in one of the drawers in the vanity would be a good thing. from our bathroom you can hear our front door open and for security (as well as a decoration my wife thinks) we have bells on the inside handle of our door. so if someone comes in we know it. anyway this is a plan that is not full proof but it gives us a lot more protection than doing nothing. especially at one of the most vulnerable places in our home.

are there any other measures that would work beside locking the door or turning off the bathroom fan so you can hear better? i am just looking for ideas short of holding a gun above my head as i shower.

PythonGuy

April 28, 2006, 07:54 AM

Sigh, not that I'm paranoid or anything......:barf:

Can this be locked for ALL of our sakes?

erh

April 28, 2006, 08:30 AM

us.armysniper -
Decaying Foliage & Rotten/ Fallen 3 Canopy muck "Sticks Like Band-Aids" too..!

"El Mazote, Aramabala, & other Dryer places; '80's..."
"Around other "Blue water realms"; '90's.."
Still don't know to prefer "Sand in every crack & orifice, or decaying jungle & feet...?!"

Glad alot of us are still here... (SEMPER PRIMA TERTIA; SEMPER PARATUS - Yes; a 2 Timin' Bastid'!)

(erh)

SpookBoy

April 28, 2006, 08:38 AM

I'm not THAT paranoid ;) ,but duct-taping a hi-point under the back of the sink might be a trick!

invention_45

April 28, 2006, 08:44 AM

Does anyone make a good towel rack holster?

Charmin does. Just sit a full roll on the back of the toilet and lay the gun on that.:D

I do have a specific problem, and it would be a big mistake for that individual to see me thru the window showering and assume I'm far from my gun.

Skyguy

April 28, 2006, 09:34 AM

Can this be locked for ALL of our sakes?

Why do that? The public relations damage is already done. So hey, let er rip!

At least the Brady Campaign, et al can mine a ton of gunowners' tactical mindset from this thread....and it ain't lookin good.

.

springmom

April 29, 2006, 09:57 AM

...you're in your house, and therefore you want to have your self-defense ducks in a row. Whether you're in the shower or the kitchen or in your office concentrating on what you're reading on TFL, you want the same thing: easily-accessible self defense.

So have your alarm on when you are inside your house (I love that new Brinks commercial about alarm systems, guy goes off to work, wife goes in, shuts door and turns ON the alarm, and the BG who was watching the guy leave kicks in the front door only to hear the whoop, whoop, whoop of the alarm...). Get a dog if you don't have one. Even a chihuahua can be loud enough, although I'd suggest something a little larger :p. Don't leave your windows unlocked. And leave your gun within reasonable reach.

Pretty much the same self defense strategy as any time you're in your house.

Springmom

Beckerich

May 4, 2006, 08:23 AM

LOL thats really cute, only in America, people over here in Ireland or in europe would be classed as borderline schizophrenics when they take a gun to have a wash... better not slip...

Try not thinking about it? If you want to worry about something, go worry about the mad man in control of the US

PythonGuy

May 4, 2006, 01:08 PM

Sounds more like you are in a prison then a home, but whatever floats your boat I guess. I wonder if they have roll call at night too??:p

Dwight55

May 4, 2006, 07:31 PM

Aye, . . . but ye know there, Beckerich, a mad man he may be, . . . but 'tis not like being stuck with a doughty ol' woman, . . . her adulterous son, . . . her drug dealing grandson, . . . for all time an' forever because of something as ignorant as tradition. Good, bad, or indifferent, . . . Bush is history at the beginning of 2009.

Jolly ol' England, stuffy ol' Scotland, the Emerald Isle: gotta put up with a bunch of ----------- in the name of [I]ROYALTY[I].

Glad my Webb, Salyer, Ash, Corbin, etc. families from England, Ireland, Germany, and others saw the light. It really is a whole lot better here. Think not??? Check the immigration stats, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

Beckerich

May 5, 2006, 08:23 PM

well how do they say its better?

Bill DeShivs

May 6, 2006, 06:49 PM

You know, I have a lot of guns. Big ones, little ones. I have carried a gun daily for over 30 years. I've carried everything from .45 cal down to .22 short, including a 30 shot M1 carbine pistol. As I have gotten older and, I hope, wiser. I don't carry a real gun anymore. I just drop my Keltec P32 in my pocket and go about my business. There is a 9mm within reach in the cars, and at home there are guns quite easily accessible.
I long ago quit being a slave to my carry gun.
I do know that most of the people who routinely carry a huge gun on their person have little need to do so. They carry it because it's cool, or macho. Maybe it's all they have to carry, or maybe they read all the goblin stories about how little guns just piss people off when you shoot them-and actually believe those stories. If I knew that I was going to have to use a gun, you damned betcha I would have a couple of huge ones-but I'll take my risks with the teeny gun and refuse to be a slave to carrying.
But now that it's been mentioned, it wouldn't hurt to stash one in the crapper. My wife or I might need it.
Bill