Kel-tec .223

[tshadow6]

Anyone shooting the Kel-Tec SU 16c ? I am almost positive that will be my next gun.

[PaulBk]

Are you in California?

-PB

[Clayfish]

for the same money you could get an ar15 and have a much better gun.

[Onslaught]

for the same money you could get an ar15 and have a much better gun.
OK now, I LOVE the AR15, and own a couple, and I don't even WANT A Kel-Tec, BUT it is not true that you can get an AR15 for $500 and have a "better" rifle. A good AR would run nearly $300, or 60% more.

If you don't need the super-compact folding feature of the KT, then I'd look elsewhere, BUT if you NEED a rifle that short, that's one thing it can do that the AR can't...

[Clayfish]

OK now, I LOVE the AR15, and own a couple, and I don't even WANT A Kel-Tec, BUT it is not true that you can get an AR15 for $500 and have a "better" rifle. A good AR would run nearly $300, or 60% more.


WRONG! I paid $535.00 for my oly and that was factory assembled. You can build an ar on quality parts without tactical accesories or optics for less than 500.00. Let's do the math. Lower reciever $100.00, lower parts kit; $50.00, 4 pos car stock; $50.00, assembled 16'' a2 or a3 upper from midway as low as $300.00. Now I'll admit it takes some shopping but it can be done. Jsgun parts has complete kits with everything except the lower for the 4-500 range.

[IronBalls]

I had a bushie dissapator and had no regrets when i sold it...

i recently got a su16B (yes calli), but its an aswome performer. Super light, a natural pointer, amazeingly handy,... never had a jam from day one till now in some 800 rounds (using usgi 30rd mags). Mounted to an eotech i am amazed at the consistent 3 shot groups it pulls at 100 yards (remember, that is a fast, unmagnified red dot sight). I am sure the gun could group way better with a magnified scope, but i have no regrets whatsoever with this rifle. Reliable, accurate, handy, light,. easy to clean, and technically (because of the gas piston bolt) it is superior to an ar15, as is the AR180 for the same reason. I dislike that my bushmaster could not shoot more than 200 rounds without the fouling detrimentally effecting reliability,... big time. and what a pain to clean it was in compairison.

Sure the ar is milspec, and prolly much more abuse resistant to the keltec, but for my uses, this was never a concern, and pre abuse, i demand reliability =) (sacred cows be darned)

[joshua]

My intention is not to flame anyone and I'm just using facts and reasoning. :o $535? I dont mean to offend anyone but you forgot the price of a complete bolt/carrier group for another 90-110 bucks. If you are a dealer and can get the parts at wholesale fine, not everyone is a dealer. If it's not at wholesale and the price is still cheap most often you get what you paid for. There are cheap parts out there, but are you willing to start assembling your gun with parts that may not meet mil spec which I consider the minimum? Yeah you may feel great about a rifle you built for less than $600 from bargain basement parts. BUT when you see the guy at the range 2 benches down with a AR-15 that cost $200 bucks more than yours but doesn't rattle too much, shoots great, doesn't have FTF/FTE problems. You'll be better off with the extra money spent assuring of a quality AR-15, and if it turns out you got a boxed lemon - you can send the rifle back for warranty. Where do you send a $535 FrankensteinAR for warranty? Oh and we successfully hi-jacked another thread. Sorry couldn't help it. v/r josh

[AK103K]

I had one of the early SU16's. It was a decent shooter, and once you found or "adjusted" GI mags to work, they were fine. I wouldn't bet on one I hadn't used before though, but that was my rifle. If you look at it as a "every day" hard use gun, I dont think it will hold up to to much "normal" abuse. For something you keep in the truck or boat and use when you need it, it will work well. As for "cheap" AR 15's, you do get what you pay for. ;)

I had a bushie dissapator and had no regrets when i sold it...
I have one that my son has commandeered, otherwise I would have had no regrets either.

[Onslaught]

WRONG! I paid $535.00 for my oly and that was factory assembled. You can build an ar on quality parts without tactical accesories or optics for less than 500.00. Let's do the math. Lower reciever $100.00, lower parts kit; $50.00, 4 pos car stock; $50.00, assembled 16'' a2 or a3 upper from midway as low as $300.00. Now I'll admit it takes some shopping but it can be done. Jsgun parts has complete kits with everything except the lower for the 4-500 range.
I'm sorry, I don't consider the "Oly Plinker" to be a "quality" AR, nor do I consider "mystery uppers" when making an AR purchase either.

I have built 3 ARs so far (uppers and lowers), and I'm VERY familiar with how to do it, but a first time assembler can't be guaranteed a functioning rifle when they DIY, and you have NOBODY to turn to or send it back to for warranty work if it's not correct. When I purchase my parts, they come from an AR15 dealer who supplies quality parts, not just "cheap". You also need a little inclination, interest, and a few tools which, believe it or not, not EVERYONE owns (so that factors into cost as well).

[King_pin]

I currently own a Kal-Tec SU16 because i live in California, and I enjoy it very much. But I wouldn’t use the dirtier ammo's, like wolf for example, because it has a habit of jamming. But it is very easy to clean.

I currently put a leupold mark 4 CQ/T on it, just for fun, and I get a very tight grouping at 100 yards.

[tshadow6]

I live in FL. so gun laws are not a problem. I like the Kel-Tec for it's compactness. evacuation and looting is a real threat during hurricane season. I also like the surplus mags that are plentiful. I don't shoot rifles as often as I like so the weapon doesn't have to be mil spec. I just want something I can pack in my overnight bag for weekend trips. (Like I said, I live in FLorida)

[Drakejake]

On Gunbroker.com there has been an SU-16 (original or Alpha version) going begging for $350. I wonder if the 16B, C, and CA versions have lowered the value of the first edition, which has a longer barrel and plastic sights. If I bought one of these Kel Tecs, I think I would go for the SU-16CA because of the stock and barrel and sights. But there don't seem to be any of these for sale on the Net at good prices. I suppose the comrades of the west coast are bidding them up.

Drakejake

[Kaliburz]

I haven't shot a SU16 varient, but I've handled one at a dealer. It was the folding stock that allows it to be fired folded. If I recall, it is a 18" barrel for that version ( the C or D). Any how, if I recall, the price was over $500, but not over $600.00. I suppose it varries in area. I was surprised the dealer that that one.

I have one of the original Sub 40's (Glock mag)- made out of aluminum. I haven't shot much, but I am happy w/ it.

Part of me wants to get that version of the SU16. I have a bunch of "AR"'s.... most are Cavalry Arms CAV-15's (plastic lowered AR) & a few aluminum 'conventinals'. Most of my Cav-15 builds I bought used uppers and I didn't even know who made them! (One was side to be a Colt). The accuracy is good enough for me, though I don't use any optics- prefer the open sights. :eek: I've never taken the time to mount anything to see what one can do.

King pin,
Nice set up. If I get a SU16, I'd prob do something like that, but w/ a halo or Dr. Optic type sight....

[mylesd]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_151 Kel-tec's cheap. Mark

[Kaliburz]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...hp/cPath/36_151 Kel-tec's cheap. Mark


Man, now you did it....I ended up book marking that link! :eek:

[smince]

I'm not sure about the folding stock yet, but would get a newer model that uses the metal M16 sights. Much better than the older plastic. I'd probably put a tritium front on it instead of any optics.

Look for pics of the "D" model: 10" barrel select-fire, LE only. :eek:

[railroader]

I have the A model with the plastic sights. This one has the windage and elevation adjustment in the front sight. Mine needed the front sight moved over to the right to shoot to point of aim. I then ordered the metal windage adjustable rear sight from keltec so I could keep the front sight centered. The rear sight I think was $20 shipped. Mark

[Kaliburz]

I'm not sure about the folding stock yet, but would get a newer model that uses the metal M16 sights. Much better than the older plastic. I'd probably put a tritium front on it instead of any optics.

Look for pics of the "D" model: 10" barrel select-fire, LE only.

Here:
Right from the Keltec site....

Info on the site doesn't say anythig about select fire or being LE only. Says you just have to have the SBR approval to get....
http://www.kel-tec.com/images/su-16d9&d12.jpg

[Hamhawk96R]

the only problem with the kel-tec is the same problem you have with the mini-14. As soon as the barrel heats up (which happens quick) your shot group will start to spread out like butter. I like the concept, though. A good truck gun.

[Onslaught]

the only problem with the kel-tec is the same problem you have with the mini-14. As soon as the barrel heats up (which happens quick) your shot group will start to spread out like butter. I like the concept, though. A good truck gun.
The SU-16C is a medium weight barrel, not a skinny like the Mini.

I THINK (not sure though) that the "CA" version does NOT fold, but I could be wrong. I know the SU-16C version has the 16" threaded barrel, no mag storage in the "L" shaped stock, better irons on gas block, and can be fired with the stock folded.

I really considered getting one as my truck/bug-out rifle, but I ended up going with a Mini-14 that will have a shortened barrel and a Choate folder.

[Kaliburz]

IIRC, the one sold in "occupied" states :D only folds for storage. The "true" folding stock is for "free states" :eek:

I'm thinking of getting one...just for kicks.....


Too many projects, not enough $$$$ though...... :(

[Onslaught]

Too many projects, not enough $$$$ though...... :(
Ain't THAT the gospel truth! ;)

[smince]

Info on the site doesn't say anythig about select fire or being LE only. Says you just have to have the SBR approval to get....

I was going by what I read in SOF (March 2005) and on the KTOG web page. :confused:

It may have been changed. Probably wouldn't hold up to full-auto fire very long, anyway. :D