Beretta is missing the boat big time!!!

[1991gulfwarvet]

I can't understand why Beretta doesent make a mod 92 version in .45acp.
It would sell like hotcakes :D

[BerettaCougar]

Sounds like a good idea, thats why I hopped on the Cougar really quick
You ever handle a Cougar? Model number 8045, comes in FS and Mini flavors and it feeds anything I put through it, from wolf to S&B.

The cougar comes in.
9x19
40sw
357 sig
and 45 ACP.

Recoil to me using 230gr ball is about the same as a glock 9mm 115gr WWB (17 and 19)...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/jessejesse123/cougar_001.jpg

Here's a pic of my cougar with hogue slip ons, next to my p990.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/jessejesse123/S3010387.jpg

[shield20]

Unfortunatley they discontinued the Cougar. I had a 8040, but traded it away. My Pop and I found a few at a Beretta dealer in FLA, but he wanted/got the 9mm(mini). I would love to try one in .45, but would probably get another .40 if was going to buy one.

I think Beretta is putting everything into the new PX4 - looks interesting and similiar to the Cougar but with polymer frame.

[BerettaCougar]

Yeah the Cougar is no longer being made, but one can be bought fairly easy, and usually around the 600 dollar price range.

Although I saw a few 357sig Cougars for 500 at the gunshow.

[theberettaman]

Sadly the 92 and open slide design doesn't lend it's self to the 45acp.Many have inquired.Beretta would have jumped all over it,from a sales stand point,if it were possible. :)

[IM_Lugger]

What exactly that makes impossible to make the 92 is .45acp? what about .45GAP? :confused:

[Whitefalls]

There have been questions about its ability to shoot .40. I don't know of any instances where a Beretta .40 fell apart, but oh well...

The problem is it was designed for 9mm. Some people say it wasn't reinforced enough for the .40, much less a .45, so its open slide may not be strong enough to handle a .45 round. It would be fun to shoot though, if it was possible.

[IM_Lugger]

I don't know; is .45 really has harder recoil than .40? .45 is way smother...plus most .40 factory loads pack more punch than .45's...

[Handy]

Beretta can't put a .357 Sig barrel in a 96 without concerns about the gun falling apart. If they aren't willing to put higher recoil cartridges in this gun when only requiring a rechambering, you can bet redesigning it for .45 is going to be a non-starter.

[Larry C.]

Howdy,

I understand that Beretta's new Px4 Storm will eventually be chambered for .45 ACP in a year or so.

Larry C.

[srfl]

I have a Beretta 8045D MiniCougar.....take the full-size 8045 Cougar, lop off about an inch from the slide and grip, make it DAO and remove the decocker/safety....and Voila!

Despite the short grip (even short for my small hands), it's a great shooter and very controllable even with +P loads.....I've fired Corbon 165 grain JHP +P loads out of my Star PD once which was a very painful experience......and actually enjoyable from the MiniCougar. Yes, the gun bucked more with that round than standard pressure 230 or 185 grain loads, but it was no problem to control the gun.

Yes, it's sad there was never a .45-caliber (whether ACP or GAP) 9X Beretta....but the Cougar (which is, unfortunately, discontinued :mad: ) is a good choice in a .45 ACP.

I have high hopes for the PX4.

[CarbineCaleb]

I am not sure what the issue is with the 92/96 being offered in a .45, but I agree that they lost a lot of American sales that way - it is extremely popular here. Judging by a poll I did on TFL anyway, it would seem to account for about 40% of semiauto sales as a caliber.

If you can be a little patient, the new PX4 Storm will be offered in .45ACP, but if that intro process is like the CX4 Storm carbine, will take almost a year. I also like the Beretta forum site, and include a member review here as a quote - the member seems to indicate the PX4 will be a very sweet shooter! :cool:

PX4 Review by a FFL from berettaforum.net:
First I was not too impressed , until I fired it.
Actually the regular 92 feels better in my hand.

I was shooting on a steel target on 75 yards and right the first shoot hit it.
About 3/4 of the following shoots hit as well even when I increased the speed on follow up shoot.
The recoil was different then any other .40 I ever shoot. The flip up is really miner and easy to handle; actually less them a 92FS!

Also interesting is the news that there will be a compact version (in a far far time from now).
I have no doubt, Beretta will catch up on the market what ever the lost.
The Army must be outright stupid if the don't go for the .45 version when it will come in 3-4 month!

Now how in the world will I be able to sleep until I get my PX4!!

The 92FS has the lowest muzzle flip of any 9mm... so Beretta must have been thinking along those lines as part of the design of the PX4 - as a person who hates muzzle flip, I say - al-riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :D

[Handy]

The 92FS has the lowest muzzle flip of any 9mm... You might think that was true, if you've never fired a P7, P9S, Steyr M9, Baby Eagle or Pardini PC9.

[CarbineCaleb]

Handy: You may be right - I have not fired any of those guns, and so I can't comment either way. I have fired about 8 service size 9mms in comparative testing though, and the Beretta was clearly the best of those, and I have read that the Berettas is indeed the lowest in existance. It does have the combination of heft and low bore axis to do excellent on this. Maybe those guys are even better in this regard?

Although this is a critical parameter in a defense situation, it doesn't seem to be appreciated by too many shooters (I seem to be one of few who mentions it on TFL). It can be measured using specialized equipment, but people aren't clamoring for measurement/disclosure of this by manufacturers.

[srfl]

What a coincidence.......I fired both my Steyr M40 and M9 yesterday and a Beretta 92FS.....I perceived the muzzle flip on the M9 to be a bit less than the Beretta but felt recoil seemed a bit less on the Beretta than the M9.

I own several Beretta 92's, short of pulling out a caliper, I think the Steyr's bore axis is slightly lower than the Beretta's.

Both are great guns though.....it's a shame that Beretta got rid of the fantastic 92FC Type M.

[fastbolt]

Folks have been asking this question for years ...

I remember when I was attending a firearms instructor class in '90 (I think), and the Beretta rep who stopped by absolutely promised we'd see a stainless .45 ACP 92-type Beretta released within the next few months. It was 'almost' ready, or some such sales pitch ...

Naturally, nothing materialzied, although the Cougar was released in later years ...

Considering the renewed interest in the US for the .45 ACP, I wouldn't be surprised if Beretta didn't chamber their newest platform in .45 ACP at some point ... but then neither would I be surprised if they promised to do so, and then failed to do so ...

Time will tell ...

In the meantime, there are many excellent .45 ACP pistols from which to choose. ;)

[ktd]

I have been told that the primary reason the 92 is not made in .45 ACP is that the extra width of the round would make the slide too wide. If you look at the 92, the slide is pretty wide for a 9mm because of the lateral locking lugs and their corresponding cutouts. That is why other tilt block guns are not made in .45 (P38, P5). I doubt the .45 round itself is too powerful for the system, though 1911's often crack at the ejection port much like the M9 will (made worse by the lug cutouts). When a design is optimized for one thing, trying to engineer it to another will often produce unsatisfactory results, a 92 in .45 would probably end up like the HK P7M10, which we call the whale.

On the other hand, Taurus made a prototype PT92 in .357 magnum, now that would be coolorama!
k

[Handy]

CC, SLFR,

Muzzle flip is determined by a number of factors, and (all else being equal) is actually the opposite of felt recoil. The more a gun flips, the less it kicks.


While low muzzle rise is nice, I don't see it as "critical". People shoot Sigs quickly and cleanly.


There's nothing wrong with the rotating barreled Berettas, like the Cougar and Storm. They are more compact, but have all the nice feeding properties of the locking block guns.

If you ever want to be truly impressed with the size, accuracy, low muzzle rise and low recoil of a .45, shoot a .45 HK P9S. It will leave you wondering why all guns aren't that good.

[CarbineCaleb]

People shoot Sigs quickly and cleanly.


Yep, you named it - that was the biggest thing I didn't like about the Sig, was it's flip... of course, there wasn't anything else that made up for it in my mind either.

I can't see flip as good - even if you like that sensation, the very act is to take your sights off target, and the bigger the flip, the further away they go, the longer it will take to settle, and the bigger the adjustment is to align them again.

I honestly don't see why all gunmakers don't do their best to design it out. Some guns clearly do - just looking at virtually all modern (designed in last 30 years) American and European military rifles, you can see that they work to minimize flip with the top of the stock edge inline with the muzzle - to improve practical accuracy of followup shots. It's not like the concept is new, or what to do about it is a great mystery.

[cheygriz]

Why would they want to chamber a modern pistol in an obsolete caliber? Leave the obsolete calibers for the obsolete guns. :D

[IM_Lugger]

Beretta can't put a .357 Sig barrel in a 96 without concerns about the gun falling apart.
I have been told that the primary reason the 92 is not made in .45 ACP is that the extra width of the round would make the slide too wide. Than what about the Cougar model? It's available in both .357sig and .45acp and it very similar in design to the 92 model.

[juliet charley]

Than what about the Cougar model? It's available in both .357sig and .45acp and it very similar in design to the 92 model.
You just revealed how very, very little you know about handguns.

The Cougar and the 92fs use a totally different locking system. The 92fs is an open slide design, and the Cougar is a closed slide. About all they really have in common is that they're both made by Beretta.

[IM_Lugger]

Crap :o ... fine I'll admit I don’t have a lot of experience with the Cougar model... I just never liked it, I guess Beretta feels the same since the model is being discontinued… :rolleyes:

[juliet charley]

The Cougar was a good design--any many ways better than the 92fs--but it was different (not a whole of autoloaders with a rotating barrel) which not necessarily good from a marketing standpoint. It's probably one of those designs the standard capacity magazine ban hurt too. I think a couple of state police agencies actually had adopted it in .45 ACP and 357 SIG.

[Handy]

Beretta may have discontinued the Cougar, but they kept the basic rotating engineering as the basis for the PX4. I think they're pleased with it.