SIG 220 .45 ACP -What do you think?

[skipper~ray]

Noticed several .45 ACP SIG 220's at a gun show last weekend- all under $400.00. I was looking for something else at the time and gave them only a quick look. Now I've kind of got SIG 220 on my mind for the next show. I like the .45 ACP, but have never fired anything but 1911's. Any thoughts?

[xXStarScreamXx]

Sexy guns that always work.


I've experience nothing but good.

[U.F.O.]

Were they used? That sounds WAY too cheap.

U.F.O.

[Slateman]

That was the first/last/only .45 I've ever shot :D :D

Was the instructors personal weapon. Good stuff

[impact]

I really like the 220s! but I like the 220 ST much better. I don't know why but I can shoot a ST much better. You really can't go wrong with a Sig! CDNN has some good used Sigs for around the $400 price range. A new Sig will go for around $750 to $800.

[Steve in PA]

I've been carrying a two-tone P-220 as my duty gun for about two years now, having switched from a 92FS. The P-220 is one sweet, accurate gun.

[SIGLOCKAUR]

Simply the finest DA/SA .45 made.

[juliet charley]

The price you are quoting sound pretty good (assuming they are not beat to death LE trade-ins). The P220 does tend to have durability problems. Frankly, the Ruger P90 is just as good (or maybe even better--it'll last longer with fewer problems). Rather than buying a used P220 of questionable origin, you might want to look at NIB P90--more gun for the same (or less) money.

[D.S. Brown]

+1 SIGLOCKAUR!

Best,
Dave

[WESHOOT2]

But I've touched two alloy frames that were cracked.

I will probably someday buy a 220 ST.

[liliysdad]

The price you are quoting sound pretty good (assuming they are not beat to death LE trade-ins). The P220 does tend to have durability problems. Frankly, the Ruger P90 is just as good (or maybe even better--it'll last longer with fewer problems). Rather than buying a used P220 of questionable origin, you might want to look at NIB P90--more gun for the same (or less) money.

The price you quote sounds decent. I paid 379.00 for my CPO 220 with night sights.

I will argue, however, that the Ruger is as good a gun. The EARLY P220s did have sme durability issues. You can identify these gus as the ones with the pointed hammer. The Guns with the rounded spur are somewhat newer, and the frame issues were resolved.

The Ruger is a DECENT handgun. It pales in comparison to the Sig in basically every way. The gun is bulky, and crude when compared to a 220. The trigger sucks, and safety/decocker is in the wrong place.

I find it humorous that the Ruger is even placed in the same league as the P220. The P220 is one of the best combat .45s ever designed, as evidenced by its long life and immense sales numbers. Along with the 1911 and the Smith 4506, there are no better full caliber guns made.

[hknut]

I have been carrying a 220 for 12 years and it has NEVER fail to go bang! I had my doughts about the .45, but it turned out i had just shot crappy US Army issue 1911's. So I took the plunge and have not looked back since. When I go in the woods for hunting, hiking (bear country), or snowshoeing my 220 with 8 rd pro-mags (3) are with me. :)

[WESHOOT2]

Sales don't make a gun good; they mean it sells.

The Ruger is comparable to the SIG, snobbery aside (and originally designed to control the 10mm cartridge).

[liliysdad]

The Ruger is comparable in respect that it is a double action .45 that feeds from a magazine. Other than that, no comparison exists.

[mathman]

Well, I think that the P220 is a fine 45, but the Ruger is probably just as good from a functional perspective...it is ugly as sin IMHO and not as accurate, on average, as the P220...but it is definitely more durable than the P220...anyone who doesn't at least admit the durability superiority of the Ruger is falling victim to snobbery :) .

[WESHOOT2]

Didn't you read where I wrote "snobbery aside"?

[mathman]

I did...that is where I got the word ;) .

[WESHOOT2]

we posted on top of each other :cool:

[liliysdad]

I believe the Ruger is durable, as durable as a completely cast gun can be. However, I believe the gross overbuiltedness :D is what gives the Ruger its bad qualities. Questionable accuracy, horrendous ergonomics, and huge size.

[WESHOOT2]

The Ruger is overbuilt, but that doesn't make it unrefined.

Isn't this more fun than bustin' smokers? ;)

[liliysdad]

I give Ruger kdos for the strength of their handguns. I will not deny that. However, my theory on the strength differs from the norm.

In my opinion, Rugers are strong for the same reason Com Block guns are strong. I do not feel that the strength of the gun was a prerequisite in its design, merely a by product of the engineering. Using cast processes, it is much easier and cost effective to make a larger, more robust piece with less refinement than it is to make a more detailed, slimmer piece. When you do so, you have a huge piece, that is by way of necessity, strong.

The Russian built tanks of a gun because crude, bulky pieces are easier to manufacture. Crude, bulky pieces are also stronger by nature. The polymer guns Ruger makes are proff of this. The only way they could truly slim the grip and make them ergonomic is to bypass the casting processes and go with molded polymer.

Ruger is strong, but they are crude.

[WESHOOT2]

The P90 was designed to accept the 10mm, and is certainly correctly built for THAT cartridge.

Rugers are designed to be stronger than 'norm'. Except, of course, the 'new' Vaqueero. It's been refined.

Accuracy of Ruger semis has exceeded 'norm' for years, as they seem to be better than most other service guns.

I would also be interested in grip girth measurements between the 220 and P90 :eek: , except that would continue to add fact to this.


Hell, man, next you're gonna tell me S&W makes the best revolvers.

[liliysdad]

Yeah, I will say Smith made the best revolvers. The new ones Im not sure about yet. I only own one lock model, and so far it seems OK. The new Model 21 is definitely close to old standards, the new barrel shroud models Im still undecided on.

Ruger USED to build a very fine revolver, the Security/ Speed Six guns. Retiring that gun for the unwieldy, bulky GP/SP seires was most definitely a mistake.

[cje1980]

I don't buy Rugers just because they are plain ugly and have way too much junk printed on them. Rugers from my experience are hit and miss. Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes not so good. They are always dependable and never break but I have ran into some bad examples that shot poorly and sometimes terribly. I would also second that Ruger used to make a good revolver but the newer models are bad and just plain ugly. I own a Speed Six in .357Mag that I bring to the mountains on hikes. It is one fine revolver on par with S&W the new GP models, although stronger are not as nice. Just because a gun is stronger does not make it better. S&W revolvers are not known to break or wear out very soon.

[juliet charley]

Using cast processes, it is much easier and cost effective to make a larger, more robust piece with less refinement than it is to make a more detailed, slimmer piece.
So, a cast frame, a two piece slide (the larger piece being little more than sheet metal) held together by a couple of roll pins is refined? :D

Frankly, for me, I haven't seen too much difference ergonomics between the two. Neither one are what I would ergonomic or svelte--both are kind of chunky, blocky pistols (a bad side effect of modified Browning lock-up). Everybody says the P220 is more accurate, but I haven't seen it (but then I don't normally shoot at little round circles either where the difference might be noticable.
The only way they could truly slim the grip and make them ergonomic is to bypass the casting processes and go with molded polymer.
Sure. Uh huh. Right. Snobbery triumphs over fact, maybe? ;) Ruger cast the frames for the SIG GSR, and they are as slim (or slimmer) than the P220's. :rolleyes:

[Geoff Timm]

I like Rugers, I have a .44 Magnum, a .357 Magnum, .22 Mk II, and of course, a 10/22 carbine. I have not liked the Ruger Semi auto pistols. I like the 220 much better.

Geoff
Who wouldn't feel disarmed with a 220. :cool:

[juliet charley]

Naw, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't feel disarmed with a P220, but I know I would be as well or better armed with a P90 (and have enough left over to buy two cases of ammunition--initials are expensive)! ;)

[Ala Dan]

No Questions

and IMHO without a doubt, one of the finest firearms ever made! :D

My West German SIG P220A in .45 ACP has NEVER even burped;
muchless had a catastropic failure of any kind. I trust my life
too it daily~ :D

Best Wishes,

[skipper~ray]

I know you can't go wrong with a Ruger, but I've kind of got that SIG stuck in my mind right now. I've got time to think about it before I go for my next purchase. Any suggestions on spare mags for the SIG?

[xXStarScreamXx]

stock mags are best.


dont ever get a pro mag piece of **** for any gun

[briang2ad]

It seems that when SIG enthusiasts argue against the Ruger it is ALWAYS the P90, and the jist is that it is too big, bulky, and ugly. Lets get some comparison against the P345. The grip and size are better for carry than the SIG. So, handle then both, then shoot them both. If the SIG is FAR more accurate, and you shoot it way better, then you may have to shell out the $300 more...

[WESHOOT2]

I was just funnin' some; S&W revolvers are fine.
For my wife :D (M38)

But MY manly guns? Five Redhawks (yes, one in each hole size, but two 357's), two KGP-141's, and I went through three Security Sixes way back (man, I loved them guns. But I hadda M67 with the best trigger ever, and accuracy I'm still wishing any other gun could exhibit).

But no SIGs........ :confused:

[625]

The 220 is a great gun. I shot it better than the Glock and HK I shot the same day, FWIW.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Gotta join the Ruger crowd here---had a SIG---what an overpriced worthless piece of crap---the only good thing is I got most of my money back.

Had one of the original P90's that I foolishly let go for something I thought I wanted more---and currently have one of the 2-tone P90's---both were/are ungodly accurate that few pistols can even dream to come close to----oh ya and they go bang everytime.

Now the P89 9mm is a different story---mine at best gives patterns---doesn't shoot to POA----got a new rear sight from Ruger and installed it---just haven't shot it yet---but hopefully I can get my patterns to POA now----The only reasons I haven't got rid of this one is because I have a PC carbine---and that the pistol is utterly reliable even when filthy.

[1991gulfwarvet]

I carried nothing but 1911's for 15 years and have traded up to a P-220.
It is the most accurate and reliable out-of-the-box gun you will find.
If you saw them for that low a price, GET ONE :D

[Greg Bell]

The SIG 220, IMHO, is the best out-of-the-box .45 availible (with the possible exception of the HK USP compact). Great gun.

[progunner1957]

Under $400 sounds like either the deal of the century or they are beat to crap LE trade-ins. If you can find a good one at that price, get it!

I have the two-tone stainless slide/alloy receiver P220 and have found it to be very accurate, easy to carry & shoot and to-hell-and-back reliable. I can't see how anyone could ever regret buying a P220.

The only drawback to the P220 is that magazines are a bit steep - but not as steep as H&K mags!! :D

[StrikeEagle]

and I went through three Security Sixes way back (man, I loved them guns.

Just out of curiosity... what happened to them? The didn't wear out or break down in some way, did they?

StrikeEagle

[juliet charley]

I can't see how anyone could ever regret buying a P220.
There's a few LEAs that would disagree with you. The current production P220R seems to be developing quite a reputation as a problem child.

[MK11]

I've got an old West German P220 that I'm lukewarm about.

But I've got a new P220ST that's exiled my 1911s to the back of the safe. Yummy.

[ATW525]

I can't see how anyone could ever regret buying a P220.

Mine was a jamamatic and the only Sig I ever truly hated. It's also sorefully lacking ammo capacity, with the P226 being very close in size and packing twice as many rounds.

[AmericanSamurai]

I got the new Sig P245, based on the 220, its more compact but packs the same punch. Great for concealed carry.

[KurtC]

Every couple of years I try to find a reason to like the 220, but haven't been able to come up with much.

I never liked the pot metal/breech block slide on the blued models. The stainless model seems well made, but the DAO conversion has too long of a trigger pull and leaves an ugly hole in the left side.

If they ever make a 220ST DAK with a dedicated grip, I'll be first in line. For now I'll stick with my 4586TSW and 4553TSW. They are top quality and perform flawlessly.

[WESHOOT2]

Sold, divorce, etc.; you know, all the wrong reasons......

But no, I never hurt one.

Nowadays my old wrists-n-elbows-n-wornoutstuff appreciate the recoil-soaking weight of my KGP's and Redhawks.
Especially IPSC...... :D

A33102
C Class using Redhawks

[RugerOldArmy]

.... Ruger cast the frames for the SIG GSR, and they are as slim (or slimmer) than the P220's.

I don't know how this thread got stuck on Rugers, but the statement (above) is incorrect. Those are Caspian parts. I'd take Caspian parts anyday.

With respect to Ruger vs. Sig, you've gotta be kidding for semi-autos. Sig for sure.

Ruger makes a nice revolver though.

[juliet charley]

Who do you think made the cast frames for Caspian? RUGER!!! ;)

You might want to rethink several of your positions. ;)

I'd still pick a P90 and a couple of case of ammo over a SIG (and have a better, more durable weapon)! :)

[Gixerman1000]

They are great pistols, I own a standard in two tone and an all steel ST model, the standard is much lighter and would be better for carry but the extra weight of the ST makes it one of the softest shooting 45's out there and great for range or HD.

[czf]

The older SIG P220s were fine. I'm still suspect of the newer ones.
I caught some heat on SIGFORUM for mentioning recent threads about SIG
problems.

I'd say the same thing if people were posting Officer Safety Alerts and
other stuff about CZs or Ruger revolvers.

No firearm or tool is perfect. CZs and SIGs (w.german) are close in my book.
Nary a problem with the SIGs in .45.

[MTS840]

If Sig P220s are LE trade ins, you might ask them if they are 'Certified Pre-Owned' guns and if they have a one-year warranty. These guns are supposed to come with a certification and warranty statement. They should also have a blue band around the grip. That's the only way I'd buy a used one. I've never heard anything bad about a new P-220.

[CougarRed]

The Sig P220 has a greater reputation among civillian internet prowlers than it does the law enforcement community.

The gun is not built to last a lifetime. See the Tactical Forums for more.

[sigman69]

one of the most accurate and one of the best DA 45Acp's out there...next to the H&K USP's

[wa_RANGER]

I have owned my twotone West German Sig P220 for a long time and have put more than 3000 rounds through it, I have never even had so much as a failure to feed the gun shoot extremely accurately and in my opinion is the best 45 acp second only to the HK USP for the money. I have owned many Rugers and while there revolvers are incredibly accurate and well made, in my opinoin the semi auto's both the p90 and the p89 are absolute piles of horse dung, my p89 jams constantly, the guide rod slips off of the groove in the locking peice rendering it useless. My p90 jams as well no problem with the guide rod yet though, Ruger semi autos are crudely made, bulky, the blueing seems to be prone to fadeing much more so than the sig's, and man I am new here but I have been a gun enthusiast for a long time and my final word, if I need to depend on a firearm to protect life limb or personal property, SigSauer gets my vote over Ruger evey time. poor accuracy is usualy acclaimed to poor shooting habits, and or low quality ammunition, ie- trigger sqeeze, point of aim, breathing, and posture. I have plenty of 25 yard targets with the 10 ring blown out of them to show any of you who doubt the leathal accuracy potential of the P220. As the old saying goes "the prrof is in the pudding" if the sig's are so crappy, then why does the US NAVY SEALS use them as their primary sidearm? RANGERS LEAD THE WAY! Class of 1166 HOOAH!