Kel-Tec P32 & P3AT -- Have the problems been worked out?

[RFC]

The Kel-Tec's look like one of the best options for pocket carry. Whenever I do a search, it get a mix of comments going back to 2001. The real question for me is, in 2005, have the problems been solved and can one expect reliability out-of-the-box?

Thanks

RFC

[jehu]

I think a Kel-tec can be made to be reliable with enough fluff & buff but if you want real power,9mm, in a pocket gun you need to look at the Rohrbaugh R9. Expensive but second to none in quality and workmanship.

[jvlip3]

Hi! I have the P-32 for 3 years now but only 300 rounds through it. The only problem I have with it was with an after market mag. The factory mags work fine with everything- HP and FMJ. However the mag from Cheaper than dirt I get a least one jam and and it only holds 6 rounds instead of the seven it's supposed to. The only other complaint about the gun itself is no restrike capability and only one mag. Check out the others in this nich.

[Majic]

Several pistols have problems with after market magazines. Cheaper Than Dirt sometimes means that is exactly what you get. Stay with factory or equivalent mags in most pistols and you will save yourself some headaches.

[Marinecorpsmike]

Most of the early problems have been worked out. I've owned and carried a P3AT for several months now and can report that 400 plus rounds have been put through it without a failure. Very easy to conceal in almost every kind of holster. My personal favorite is the Pager Pal, comfortable and accessable. Easy to shoot in spite of its small size and very light weight. It's a gun you'll carry when others would be left at home.

[Double Naught Spy]

Given the continued reports of the outstanding service provided by Kel-Tec, especially on the P32, I would have to say that the problems are NOT worked out. It is good when a company stands behind its product. It is bad when a lot of the customers have to find out if the company will. It is worse when it must be tested multiple times by the same customer.

I don't understand it. Kel-Tec seems awfully concerned with providing excellent service to their customers with problems AFTER they buy one of their guns. It is too bad that Kel-Tec does not put that effort of making things right into the production end of their operation.

The Rohrbaughs are expensive and nice little guns. However reviews in American Handgunner and Gun Tests revealed that the little gun does not work with properly with various types of ammo in that there is tumbling in flight that results in keyholing at the target. That will affect accuracy and velocity. I was surprised to see such comments made in American Handgunner. Since their reviews are almost always glowing (and correspond with ad space purchased by the company whose gun is being reviewed), to see them mention such as problem as keyholing is interesting. I am inclined to believe that problem is fairly significant if they are going to mention it in an article.

With that said, it seems more likely that short barreled little guns are more prone to keyholing than similar guns with longer barrels, although I have not seen that in the little Kel-Tecs very often. While I have seen this with others, I have experienced it with a 1911. I had a Kimber Ultra Elite that would keyhole if limpwristed on an inconsistent basis. If shot with locked wrists, in other words, a firm platform of support, no keyholing occurred and accuracy was great. Maybe the Rohrbaugh just needs a more solid shooting platform and it will be great?

[alamo]

I have 4 KTs and all work just fine. A fair number of those who comment negatively on them have never owned one. KT makes close to 1,000 P-3ATs per week. You would see considerably more postings of problem pistols if there were major problems. By way of comparison, NAA makes a few thousand .380s per year, tops.

[kymasabe]

I've shot both..rented a Kel-Tec .32 for an hour and a hundred rounds...hated it. No matter what I did, I couldn't keep it from jamming. However, my friends Kel-Tec.380 that we had at the range today was flawless with over a 100 rounds today and he has one of the earlier versions of the gun. My understanding is that the latest generation has worked out the problems they were having with the last version. The gunsmith we were talking to today said he's had great luck with polishing the barrel, and ramp on older versions.

[Air,Land&Sea]

I worked my problems out this weekend with a Seecamp .32.

[Kevin Quinlan]

I am with you. The Kel Tec's look good on paper. The people who have them love them. However it seems like they all need work.F&B is a common practice with them. The bugs should be worked out before it leaves the plant.


Kevin

[Javelin Man]

I have a P11 and a P32. Minor jam problems at first until they were broken in and after about 50 rounds, everything's working great. A big problem with any small gun is cleanliness; this isn't a 1911 or an AK or SKS that can get filthy and still fire. When you are making something this small, you are challenging the edge of design capabilities and physics. Another problem is the grip. Many people don't hold the gun tight enough, and it can be hard with such a small grip on the .32 and .380, and this will allow jams that are incorrectly blamed on the gun. Finger rests and magazine extensions really help beginners on this grip. Don't be offended by being called a newbie when firing a small gun like this, just realize what it takes to be reliable. As you notice, Kahr's PM9 is also getting mixed reviews because people can't handle the recoil with just a small gun.

[Springer45]

I was about to buy a P11 that I was handling at Gander Mountain over the weekend, but decided to carefully read some of the Kel-Tec posts here and at THR before deciding.

It helped me a lot when one poster summed it up by saying something like this: "1/3 of the owners LOVE them, 1/3 HATE them, and 1/3 think they have great customer service. That means 2/3 are having problems." Simple math, simple logic, but that settled it for me.

SO today I went out and bought a very gently used Kahr PM9 for $460. Yes, there were conflicting reports from Kahr owners, but most related to PM40s.

I just got back from the range and I couldn't be happier. I shot 50 rounds of PMC 115gr FMJ and 20 rounds of Winchester JHP with no problems of any kind. Recoil was a non-factor. Accuracy was stellar. Certainly not a torture test, but a very, very encouraging debut from this little package.

[Hello123]

For a dealer cost of $200, the kel tec is a good gun. For that price I don't expect it to be perfect right out of the box, although many to most are. If it is not , kel tec will fix it. This is a gun you will carry, with the belt clip, when you would leave your Rohrbaugh on top of the frig.

[Old Shooter]

I had an original .380 and hated it. The new generation 2 guns are light years better. I bought one about 3 months ago and carry it everywhere. When I first got it I buffed the feed ramp (I do that on EVERY new gun) and after about 500 rounds I can say that it has never failed to feed or fire. I've used ball ammo and hydra-shocks.

I just finished shooting 10 rounds of reloaded lead round nose and 6 hydras - worked perfectly. I do that every once in a while to to keep in practice - afterall, my life may depend on it.

[BobK]

I've had my P32 for about 3 years. Guess I'm lucky cause mine has never had a problem. Use 3 factory7 round mags and a 10 round and shoot only Silver Tips. About 400 rounds throught it. I just got a Kahr P9 a month ago. So far I love it. Put 500 rounds through it. Got Corbon DPX in it now.

[pocketgun]

Javelin Man's comments are right on the money. It is pretty irresponsible (of the range) to rent any pocket pistol as a range gun and expect it to work reliably with hundreds or rounds going through it with a decent cleaning or lube.

Another thing to keep in mind is that these guns cost approx $225-$250. Consider that the types of people who buy inexpensive guns are not always the most skilled or experienced shooters. Ideas like cleaning and lubrication are often discovered after problems have began. The types of shooters who are willing to wait months for a Seecamp, or plop down a grand for a Rohrbaugh probably won't be buying their first gun.

As alamo pointed out, KT likely sells more pistols than Seecamp, NAA, and Rohrbaugh combined. With that many guns there are going to be more folks who have problems.

My advice is to buy a new P3AT, read up on it, and see how it works. Even if you hate it, you will be able to trade it on something else and not lose that much money on the deal. If it works well for you like it does for most buyers then you are set.

[106RR]

I would say that the problems are minor considering the package. If you demand a rapid fire weapon in a package less than 3/4" thick and weighing less than 7 oz. KelTec is the gun. There is no other pistol with this size/weight/firepower ratio. When the Glock 19 was introduced it had a S/W/F ratio that was unbelievable for it's time in history. Now there are many wonder nines from which to choose. KelTec P32/380 has a similar place. Soon other manufacturers will have a similar weapon to offer. Until then it's KelTec warts and all. You have to give KelTec credit for pushing the design envelope so far into the future.
My P32 #28xxx had some problems initially. It works fine now and I got it before the deadline for purchase in California. They are not selling Kel Tec P32s in this state anymore.

[CajunBass]

It seems to me that when most people want to compare the Kel-Tec's to anything else, they always seem to compare them to guns that cost a hundred or more dollars than the particular Kel-Tec they're talking about. Frankly if I paid more for something I'd expect to get something better.

I've got a P-11, 9mm. In about 500 rounds, I've had one failure to eject about round 20. Since then no problems. How much more would I have to spend to get something more reliable or "better"? I know it's not a target pistol, but I didn't expect it to be. I know mine is more accurate than I can shoot it though. By the way. I have never done any of the "fluff and buff" stuff with mine. Except for a trigger shoe, a pencil eraser trigger stop, and a magazine extension, I haven't done anything to mine except shoot it, clean it, and lube it.

I just went to an online gun store. The Rohrbaugh 9mm listed for $989.00, the least expensive Kahr I saw was $376.00. The Kel-Tec P-11 listed for $238.00. I paid a little more for mine at a local dealer. ($265.00) That's a pretty big price difference I think.

I think the Kel-Tec is a an outstanding value. I know some people say you can't put a price on your safety, or your life. That's true. However some people, myself included have to make a choice between a gun we can afford, and no gun at all.

I can't comment on the 32's or the 380's, but based on my experience with the P-11, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

[wyrdone]

I am with you all on the cost of the Rohrbaugh 9mm. It looks like a really good CCW gun. However the $989 price tag is a bit much to stomach.

If the Rohrbaugh 9mm's come down in price to the 400-500 range I could see getting one. Expecially with the all metal construction, yet still light wieght.

[Dave R]

Kel-Tec P32 & P3AT -- Have the problems been worked out?

They were on mine. Its been perfect through about 700 rounds. Statistical sample of one...

[Gazpacho]

I own three.

If you buy one, and it functions fine through the first 200 rounds, you probably have a keeper. I have one that has functioned fine through 3000+ rounds, all original parts.

Both the P-32 and P-3AT are sensitive to limp-wristing. The +1 magazine extension will help this A LOT. Also the weapon WILL have FTE and FTF problems after it has accumulated 50-100 rounds of shooting filth.

You can probably skip the fluff and buff if you put the weapon through a vigorous break-in program. On my second and third guns, I shot them until they consistently FTE/FTF. Then stopped and cleaned the weapon. Repeat for about 300 rounds. No F&B was ever done, and these two now serve as CCW BUGs for me and my wife.

[JMag]

My P-32 works great! My first-gen P3AT was NOT a good piece; more smilies than a clown-filled circus tent. I traded it off for a S&W 642. All is well, with no regrets.

[mpi]

i own at least one of each pistol they produce [or did produce] and i love all of them. i carry a p3at every day, and have never had any reliability problems with it from day one.
harry

[mini14jac]

I don't consider myself a KT lover or hater.

Let me state up front, I've owned at least 5 KTs.
2 P11s, 2 P32s, and a P3AT, and I've recommended them to several others.
As long as they realize they may have to work on the gun to get it running smoothly.

Any gun that I own gets shot a lot, so my KelTecs get shot enough to know if they are reliable.
If you've only put 100-200 rounds through a gun, it's not ready to risk your life on it.

On the 9mms I had, I hated the trigger, they wouldn't feed Wolf ammo, and they had snappy recoil. All of the above made it hard for me to be accurate with the guns. But, I didn't have reliability problems as long I fed them brass ammo.

The .32s and .380 have all needed work.
New hammer spring, takedown pins, extractors, chamber and feed ramps polished, etc.

So to answer your question:
Have all the problems been worked out?
I'd have to say no, and the QC at KelTec will continue to keep the Service Dept. in work for the forseeable future.

My P3AT is in the shop now.
After having it hard chromed, it wouldn't feed Winchester or UMC ammo.
I could shoot 6 or 8 mags, then start getting FTF.
Or I could shoot 6 or 8 mags with no problem, then after cleaning, I couldn't get through 1 mag without a jam.
I'm hoping they will make it 100%, but I'm not sure I can trust it anymore now.

So, let the buyer beware.

[Lou22]

I bought a P3AT a couple months back. I had feeding problems with FMJ during the first 150 rounds (but not with Gold Dot HP's). I did a "Fluff and Buff" which took about a half hour of my time and some sandpaper from the local hardware store. I followed the directions found on MouseGuns under semis/380.

Took the gun back to the range and had not a single problem with any FMJ or Gold Dot or Golden Saber HP's. Or any since. The guns shoots as well as my Kahr PM9 costing more than twice as much.

I think the P3AT is a great little gun. I feel very confident with it. I love how it will slip into about any front pocket. For the cost and my half hour I got a really good value.

Lou