carbines in california...

[Mr.V.]

Hi,

I'd like to apologize in advance for all the questions.
I'm new to firearms and don't really own one yet, but I was thinking about buying a carbine. I fired a Ruger 9mm carbine today and it was fun. I was really accurate with it just like my crosman pellet gun I shot a lot as a kid. I'm pitiful with a handgun though =)

Anyway, I searched through the forums and found a few topics related to this, but nothing definitive. Anyways, I'd like to learn more about the semi-automatic carbines in pistol ammo (I don't think I need a "high power" round like the .223 or 7.62mm x 51mm rounds). However, internet searches always lead me to the .30cal M1 carbine, or the colt m4 or something.

Anyways, I was wondering if a 9mm Ruger carbine is a good gun to buy. Reading the forums, a 9mm bullet seems to be defined as a bullet for "ladies and pansies". I try not to be either =)

However, the only .45 caliber carbine I can find is a beretta, the Cx4 Storm. Unfortunately, it has a pistol grip, which I think means it's illegal in california. Unless, since it fires a .45 ACP round, it's okay? (I don't really know all the details in the assault weapon ban in california).
The beretta site is here:
http://www.berettausa.com/product/rifles/series_page.cfm?currentseries=18
does anyone know if this gun is okay in california?

Also I was wondering if the .40 S&W caliber Ruger carbine would be better? It doesn't seem to have a pistol grip.
Here's the site...
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=20

And finally, are there other semi-automatic pistol-ammo style carbines that you guys know of? Manufacturers etc. The only other carbine I've heard of in my searches is this Marlin camp .45 but I cannot seem to find it.

Thanks for your help!

[utaherrn]

First, pistol caliber carbines are great fun, relatively cheap to shoot, and have low recoil. Fun toys. I have a few myself.

Second, everything Ruger makes seems to be built like a tank, so long term durability is a plus. You'll wear out long before it does.

The advantage of the Ruger carbine is that it takes the same magazine as their pistols of the same caliber, so if later on you want to get a 9mm or .40 cal. Ruger pistol, the carbine and pistol will both use the same magazine.

The Ruger carbine with the peep sight on the reciever (model PC9GR 9mm; PC4GR .40S&W) would be preferable to the one with the rear sight on the barrel (PC9 9mm; PC4 .40S&W) as the peep sight makes for faster target aquisition.

Not sure about those convoluted laws in Kalifornia. The reasoning of most of them bewilders many of us. :rolleyes:

Fired from a carbine, pistol ammo is more powerful than the same fired from a handgun, so no worries about being a pansy, or whatever. Hitting the target is the name of the game, the rest is just posturing and hot air.

The Marlin Camp Carbine has been discontuinued for some years, and so they are only available on the used market. Opinion of their reliability and durability is mixed. Given the two, I'd say go with the Ruger.

The Beretta Cx4 Storm is a newer design, made largely of plastic, looks futuristic (some like it, some don't) and is relatively new on the market, so long term durability has not been established. I'm thinking about getting one myself.

The M1 carbine is a fun gun too, historic WWII design, etc. It is not a pistol caliber carbine although there have been a couple of handguns chambered for it.

As for 9mm vs. .40S&W, it just depends on you. The 9mm is a lighter, faster bullet than the .40, and which is better is a topic of heated debate and dubious physics on both sides of the issue.

As for cost, the 9mm is cheaper, at least around here. Either caliber will serve you well for plinking and home defense given proper ammunition selection.

Let us know what you choose and HAVE FUN.

Legal Disclaimer:
all of the above is only my opinion based on personal experience, your mileage may vary, do not operate heavy equipment while taking certain medications.....

[WillBrayjr]

Welcome to TFL!!! :)

The Ruger PC9 is an excellent little gun and I believe that it is Commiefornia ok. Given the 16in barrel length you'll probably get around 1,500fps with the 9mm so the 40S&W model isn't needed if you're looking for stopping power.

[Tom2]

I recall seeing some of the specs for carbines shooting the 45 ACP and did not see much gain in velocity over a standard handgun. I suppose that you would gain some velocity from the higher pressure cartridges like the 9 and 40. Probably get a bigger gain in 9 useing the +P or +P+ loads in it if it does not beat up the gun-the Marlin and Ruger are blowback actions as far as I can tell. Then there are the M1 carbs that fire a hotter round with a locked breach. For even hotter pistol type shooting from a carbine, there are the lever guns in pistol cartridges. Even the .357 can be loaded to the lower end of 30-30 performance in the lever guns, and can be throttled back with mild .38 loads for plinking. Or even a 44 mag lever gun would outperform them all. Plus no nasty pistol grip or detachable mags, that the hippies don't like. I suppose you have a mag capacity limit in Cal, and I would like 9 .357 rounds in a tubular mag over 10 9MM rounds myself.

[utaherrn]

are a lot of fun, lots more power and less politically liable.

[Person of Interest]

Bear in mind that CA law prohibits magazines over 10 rounds so if the gun is sold in CA it can only come with 10 round mags.

[Mr.V.]

Thanks for all the tips!

It sounds like the ruger 9mm carbine is the one for me. Is it easy to clean and maintain? Also, any pointers on the best way to secure a firearm such as a carbine in an apartment with little extra space and a kid running around?
If I can't store it really safely then I suppose I'm going to have to live without one.

[utaherrn]

place the cable through the open action and magwell and lock it, then keep it out of reach.
Then get the Eddie Eagle program that the NRA has to offer and teach your children about gun safety. It's not enough to just hide it out of sight, because they WILL eventually find it.

[cheygriz]

Whoever told you that the 9MM is for ladies and pansies is a "macho arse-whole" who is displaying his ignorance.

9MM is used by most of the major military units of the world, including the U.S. and all NATO countries. Are the U. S. Marines "pansies?" 9MM is much flatter shooting, ammo is very economical and available world wide.

The Ruger is a fine little carbine. I personally lkike the Beretta CX4 better, but that's personal choice more than difference in quality. Check out both, and buy and enjoy the one you like.

[Gung-Ho]

What about a nice M1 Carbine? I just got one from Fulton Armory and LOVE it.

[Tom2]

(See above) because the M-1 is priced out of sight, if it is G.I. Everyone that loves theirs, usually got it years ago when they were reasonable. Most sellers at shows walking around with one are looking to make a huge profit. ANd the commercial versions vary from wretched, to problematic. I suppose you could do OK with the RUGER, and being marketed to police, perhaps it will hold up to shooting the +P+ ammo that will really make it shoot with some authority. I would be suprised if they had a warning against the high powered or even the "carbine" rated hot ammo, if they wanted to get the police sales. But that would be too much and too expensive for practice or plinking. For serious business I would try to obtain some of the hot ammo.

[FirstFreedom]

Just my 2 cents, but although a 9mm carbine would be a hoot, and useful to some extent, if I'm going to get a pistol caliber carbine, it's going to be one that uses a cartridge with enough powder capacity to take advantage of the extra barrel length, something like .357 mag, .44 mag, or possibly 10mm auto or .30 carbine. Still, I'm sure I'd have a ball with a 9mm, .40, or .45 carbine as well.

[jonathon]

30 carbine out of a pistol is fun, lots of flames from the unburnt powder :cool:

[WillBrayjr]

Thats the nice thing about Rugers, they are Cummiefornia legal :D Don't worry about taking the PC9 down for cleaning, Rugers are built to be maintained easily so just follow what the manual says ;)

[2002gti]

if i were looking to pick up a carbine(im in california too) i would be taking a hard look at the mini-14. i would then get some hicaps from friends or family from out of state, i know its still illegal to do this but they are forcing me to do it. luckily ive been collecting for a few years and already have 2 ar15's, an ak, a .44 mag lever as my carbine battery. get the mini w/10 rounders if you dont want to break any laws but the law is if you had the mags before the ban then your good to go. whos to say whether you had them before or after the ban. ive had hi caps sent right to my house from dealers that didnt know any better. like i said they are forcing me to be a criminal, im not the type to sit back and let them run me.

[WillBrayjr]

Good show 2002gti :cool:

Considering where you live I wouldn't announce what you have in the way of firearms. As long as you keep your nose clean you shouldn't have any problems. ;)

[utaherrn]

Advising others to break the law is irresponsible, and places both you and this forum in a bad light.
Comply with the local laws or move out of the state and save yourself real potential problems down the years. The Gun Police are an unforgiving sort. You may well spend time in the klink for your "crime" while others who have done worse will go free after a slap on the wrist because the jails are "full". And knowing that you have done nothing morally wrong is poor consolation when you're rotting in a cell for who knows how many years.


Not trying to lecture, just friendly advice, and it is worth exactly what you paid for it ;)

[2002gti]

"Not trying to lecture, just friendly advice, and it is worth exactly what you paid for it "

thanks for the friendly worthless advise but untill you know what its like living in a state like california i think its really hard for you to comment.

let me retract my advice given in the above post but instead just make clear the actions that i have taken. if anyone wants to follow my lead go right ahead, im now not advising you to do so. it is in my opinion that its a consiracy for all states to follow california's gun laws. i think i just read a thread about them trying to pass the assault weapon ban for pensylvania for the second time or something so everyone will have to be breaking laws eventually just to be a hobbiest. i hate it when they infringe on my rights but then again you really dont know about that YET.

[utaherrn]

lived in Canada for 20 years, is that enough to comment?

I left partially to be able to enjoy my chosen hobbies without fear of incarceration.

I have 2 friends who made the choice to break the law as a protest against unconstitutional laws and lost. Several years doing time and a loss of gun rights thereafter, along with destroyed families and careers.

is that enough to comment?

[natedog]

9mm and .45ACP make fine handgun rounds. However, if I'm going to have the weight and bulk of a rifle, I want rifle penetration, power, and range.