What's so great about Sig's and HK's??

[NewDad24]

Could it be possible that people like them so much because they are foreign???The same way we love Mercedes and BMW,is it possible they are so valued because they are made across the world?Who says they are so much better?Are Mercedes and Bmw always a better car than an american made high dollar Lincoln?Not trying to cause an argument,just very curious about how others view this :confused:

[Handy]

Sigs: A fairly conventional auto that have a deserved reputation for working REALLY well. Accurate and reliable, they've passed many a service pistol trial, including the US ones. Decent ergonomics like balance, trigger and grip make them easy to use, as well.

HK: A world innovation leader that built its reputation by doing everything different. Lately they've become much more conventional, but still offer innovation in a package that rivals Sig for really working well. Ergonomics are a plus as well.


There are many fine guns, but these two companies have 40 year reputations for GREAT guns, and have avoided the QC pitfalls that companies like Colt and (sometimes) S&W seem to periodically fall into. They also offer a much fuller line than most companies, offering more choice in caliber, etc.

The fact that they are the defacto first choice of many military and police units world wide helps, too.


PS - Most of the above applies to Beretta, as well. FN just hasn't been competing as closely.

[zulustyle]

Howdy,
IMO I think it's a great many things, certainly more than I'll even attempt to list. People will probally buy according to quality both real and percieved. A lot of people are sold on hype or the fact that that it may be the perfered weapon of elite police units and special forces units in the military. I'm sure that a lot of people go for style over substance as well the whole status symbol thing. I'm sure a lot of people purchase because of feedback from friends or the feedback from a message board such as this.
I would like to hope that there are a lot of people that actual take the time to research and actually test a weapon out and see which style,manufacturer, caliber,etc... works best for them.
Ultimately it's a matter of personal preference. I own a USP 45 tactical. I tested out the USP's before purchasing one, it felt right, I could shoot fairly decent with it,and I got a really good deal on a used one. I also make it point to research and test other weapons before I make a purchase, its worked very well for me so far.

[Stiletto]

Are Mercedes and Bmw always a better car than an american made high dollar Lincoln?Well, yes. They are.

Anyway, I haven't tried any Sigs, but I think I like the way Kim Du Toit puts it: HKs are like forks. You pick one up, and it just works.

[AZta2guy]

speaking from an audi owner... I would have to say that I just happen to like the way both companies make wepons. I own both brands as well as others. Though I have not had the oppertunity to shoot a sig sauer rifle... but my 91 is just dandy... adn I will not get into the joy of the mp5.

Aim straight and have fun
Jon

[FallenPhoenix]

I think part of it is whether you're the kind of person that would drive a Civic/Accord or a BMW 3 series or Mercedes sedan. The Sigs and HKs really are better guns than say a glock (Civic/Accord) but all of them work great. The Sigs and HKs just work greater :p

[w4klr]

Notice, the H&K is engineered for a service life of more than 20k rounds (as stated by them)... but the Glock just seems to be made to be frozen then shot. :p They are all excellent pistols, I fancy HK, as I'm a beleiver of fine German engineering (much like the C230 I'd like to have). So while I am stuck with a Honda Accord that I love, I drive my 2nd ammendment with Cadillacs from Germany.

[Pilot]

I have the older designs from both companies. A few HK P7's and Sig P series. They are among my favorites. Well made, accurate and very durable. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a USP or Sig Pro either. You get what you pay for.

[OBIWAN]

Well....let's see

Their mags are darn expensive...as are all their parts and accessories

And Chicks dig them!

:confused:



That's all that comes to mind ;)

[FALshootist]

Personally I've found SIGs to be very accurate and reliable right out of the box with factory mags (The same with Beretta and Glock).

The department I work for has approved SIG, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, and HK semi autos, all are personal purchase. The SIGs, Berettas and Hk make up the largest numbers.

Our amorer has found that over the years the Berettas followed by the SIGs break the least and of all the approved guns the HKs break the most.

I've always found the HK to be way over priced and provides nothing that a SIG can't provide in a better package. If I want a polymer gun I'd get a Glock, unfortunately they are not approved for carry by my department.

[Rick 1966]

I am not big on the HK USPs, although the P7s are awesome guns.
But as for SIGs...it's really simply. They're reliable, they point well in my hand, they have an awesome trigger pull for a DA auto and I can shoot them very accurately. Can't ask for much more than that. Matter of fact, they are almost the only DA auto I can shoot as accurately as I want.

[FallenPhoenix]

Their mags are darn expensive...as are all their parts and accessories

I've noticed this, they are over twice the price of the Mec-Gar mags, which I believe are what come stock in the US P226. :confused:

[Rick 1966]

SIG mags are not that expensive if you buy them from the right supplier.

[629 shooter]

The Sigs and HKs really are better guns than say a glock (Civic/Accord)

Damn! If my Honda was the equivalent of a Glock I would trade it off today! Seriously , the Sig has it all for me , excellent fit and finish (build quality) , great accuracy , superb trigger pull in both the double and single action mode and completely reliable. Shot these 10 shot groups at an indoor range with a P220 45 auto Sig from a standing position. The 2nd target also has 22 bullet holes. Great for me with an out of the box service pistol.

[IanS]

The BMW 3 series is the best small sized sedan I've ever driven. Wonderful handling, phenomenal brakes, and what seems like endless midrange torgue. The car literally gave me even more confidence to take the little car to it limits even when loaded with 4 and luggage in the trunk. And I always felt it could take even more than I had the talent to manage. With most avg. cars you can sense there's a certain limit that the car can handle but with a BMW I always sensed it could always give "just a little more". Yes, there is a difference. That's why Lincoln took cues from BMW engineers to produce its LS line of midsize sedans.

As for whether a SIG auto is better than a S&W auto well, most importantly I prefer SIGs because its decocker only. The fact that the P226 is the most accurate and reliable DA/SA 9mm and the P220ST is the most accurate and reliable DA/SA .45 for me is reason enough as well. SIG's and S&W's cost pretty much the same so might as well go with what performs better for me and has the features I prefer. SIG's are starting to make more and more guns in the U.S. Will I go searching for a new "Foreign" gun because of that? I don't think so.


Lots of people may buy a BMW or a SIG because its a status symbol or it has a certain kind of appeal. But there are plenty of us who appreciate them for what they are and not what they represent.

They'll all take you to or do what you need it to do. Its all in the way each particular brand does it for you.

[astra9m]

If you question how good sigs and HK are. Do reaserch and you will see that Navy seals, seceret service and most state police carry them and they are definatly not the cheapest. But they protect our prisident so that says something.

[USP45usp]

The reason that I like the HK is due to for a double stack mag (thicker grip) it fits my hands better then any other double stacked pistol out there.

That is the reason that I gave up my Ruger P-series. I loved the guns but couldn't stand the grips. HK solved that problem for me :).

Never tried a sig, heard nothing but good about them though.

Wayne

[9mmsnoopy]

i have an hk and a sig, love them both. i also have a glock and a springfield, i love them just as much. are hk and sig better guns than the other 2? i cant say that, im just as accurate(maybe more accurate to say inaccurate lol) with one as i am the other, and as far as reliability, ive yet to have any malfunctions with any of them. im not loyal to any one brand, im a gun enthusiast, i like them all! :p

[Bullrock]

I am not big on the HK USPs, although the P7s are awesome guns.

Rick, I was just curious if you own a USP? I think the first reply answered NewDad's question about as well as it can be answered. Recently I owned a Sig. 232 sl. Beautiful and well made. I didn't like the action, so I don't have it anymore. Both gun makers being equal it's again a matter of personal choice. Or, you can like them both.

USP C 9mm
Browning Pro-9
CZ 75 B
PT-92 SS
BDM .380
Bersa Thunder
Millenium Pro 9mm
SW66 .357
Browning Citori XT Trap
Winchester 1300 Pump
Winchester SX2

[Majic]

Many makers have and still do make great models. Accuracy and reliability usually isn't a problem with any major manufactor (or they wouldn't be in business very long). Are Sigs and H&Ks that much better than the other makers? NO, they are all just service pistols that do an excellent job. Do they have their followers and admirers? YES, but so do the other makers.

There are many fine guns, but these two companies have 40 year reputations for GREAT guns
There are several makers who have been building great guns since the early part of the 20th century and a far greater number who have been at it since the 1950's. Sig and H&K only falls in the pack along with them.

[Rick 1966]

"Rick, I was just curious if you own a USP?"

Not at the moment.
However I HAVE owned USP full size 9mm, 40 and 45 models and a compact 40 as well. I liked them all except for the 45, which was too big and awkward and the magazine welds split on both the mags that came with it.
The USP Compact 40 is a great gun, but in general I find the USPs obscenely overpriced.

[Gonzo_308]

Well....let's see

Their mags are darn expensive...as are all their parts and accessories

And Chicks dig them!





That's all that comes to mind


I'm beginning to notice a pattern here. Is it jealousy? you harp and whine about SIG and HK like they've done something personally to you.

Other than the fact that they appear to be out of your budget is there a problem you can document that might shed some light on your grudge?


SIG and HK both have a reputation for doing things better than the next guy. There are some guns out there that might approach them in one way or another but very few can compete with their respective packages on every level.

yes, they're expensive. some might say too expensive for what it likely takes to manufacture them. I can't argue about that. I can only say that I'm willing to pay the going rate to get what I want.

None of my products from those companies have ever failed and I use my guns alot.

[w4klr]

yes, they're expensive. some might say too expensive for what it likely takes to manufacture them. I can't argue about that. I can only say that I'm willing to pay the going rate to get what I want.

None of my products from those companies have ever failed and I use my guns alot.

Same reason I shelled the money for a PPK/S when I could have bought 2 Bersas for that money.

Come on, besides that... do you see colt with a Green Beret 1911? Or Smith with a Delta Force Combat Magnum.

HK does have a SOCOM for Seals... I think that says something, a pistol designed solely for SF reasons.

H & K, no other way OORAH

[Rick 1966]

"Come on, besides that... do you see colt with a Green Beret 1911? Or Smith with a Delta Force Combat Magnum.

HK does have a SOCOM for Seals... I think that says something, a pistol designed solely for SF reasons."

Well, no. Delta Force carries privately-purchased 1911s from what I understand. The Marine MEU-SOC carries Springfield Armory 1911s now, IIRC, and the Marine DET-1 Special Forces unit they were testing for admission to the Special Operations Command carried Kimbers. (The Marines decided against joining SOCOM, preferring to stay with their own "in-house" special operations units, the MEU-SOCs.) And the SEALs mostly carry SIG 226s---the HK MK23s are for specialized tasks and not carried on a regular basis.

[Gonzo_308]

Come on, besides that... do you see colt with a Green Beret 1911? Or Smith with a Delta Force Combat Magnum.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=30258613

there have also been a skillion or so commemorative k frame revolvers from S&W. and they recently also had the Thunder Ranch bastardization of an N frame.

Everybody does the special edition things.

some of them you don't know about that's all.

[SNoB]

The mark 23 isnt really a "special edition", its not pretty, it dosent have a woden box that it comes in, its black, its huge, it looks mean and its 100% bussines.

And unlike some other gun makers I dont think HK is famous for pistols(even though thier pistols are some of the best in the world). The mp5 is probably the most popular sub machine gun for CCQ and entry teams throughout the world and the g3 I belive is the main battle rifle for more countires than any other rifle in the world(or was at one time?). Lets face it when it comes to combat guns, HK makes a top design in every catagory.

So I drive a BMW and carry a USP compact, is my nickname fitting or what?

[litework]

I don't think it's where they are manufactured. My father loved and had Mercedes, BMW and Sigs. I've been around them and have decided that I don't care for any of them, but I do like HK.

I'm not sure that HK and Sig are better than Ruger, just as I'm not sure that BMW or Mercedes is better than Buick...in terms of reliability. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the opposite was true. They do offer a nice combination of style, performance and reliability.

I like HK because it is a hammer fired handgun that can be carried cocked and locked. It is a lightweight, high capacity firearm with a solid reputation for reliability. It fits my hands well even with gloves. I've not found another weapon that can do all this.

[Erik F]

For me, it's the trigger. Sigs have the best out-of-the box triggers of any DA auto I've ever fired, and the SA pull is like butter. If you're used to a good 1911, there's a bit of take-up, but reset is less than 1/8".

It's like the difference between a Volkswagen and an Audi. Either will get you there, but the Audi just FEELS better, and in a way it's hard to understand without driving one.

[arp415]

Ok, I drive a WRX, where do I fit in here?

[FallenPhoenix]

Ok, I drive a WRX, where do I fit in here?

the sig is an STi while the rest are just the base WRX ;)

[Stiletto]

Well, the Mk23 was designed so it could be used as a primary weapon and not so much as a sidearm. Naturally, it's XOBX HUEG!!! and looks mean as hell.

I want one, but they're freaking expensive. Supposed to be super-accurate, though.

[OBIWAN]

Since most everyone except Gonzo308 saw my original post for the humor (with a dose of truth) that it was meant to be.

They (Sig and HK) are (arguably) the best of the DA/SA weapons

I have owned both, and only sold them because I found DA/SA to be...as Pat Rogers puts it " the perfect solution to a non-existant problem"

But hey...that is a personal issue :D

My ONLY problem with the Sig was the operating system..other than that it(P239) was a joy

My HK could have been turned into a SA for 75.00 but I thought it was too big for a compact...had a lousy SA trigger and too high a bore axis.

Other than that...pure uncompromising perfection :D

I have lots of handguns that cost more....some that cost less (nothing that costs more than the Mark23) and they all function 100%

I have 1911's that cost more than most of the USP line, but I can still buy top of the line 1911 mags for less than $30...rather than $50+

And I can replace my whole fire control group on a 1911 by myself, and cheaper then doing the same with an HK..so yeah...I think their parts and accessories are overpriced. HK has historically tried to keep most things proprietary...and expensive

But lest anyone think I am biased against either company

I am very interested in trying a Sig DAK

I simply love my PSP and fight a daily battle to not purchase a second one

[SIGLOCKAUR]

Don't own any HK's so can't vouch for them. Own several Sigs. All but one made here. Every single one has fired every single time I have pulled the trigger. And they are extremely accurate, great triggers, and feel good in most peoples hands. Also the Ohio State Patrol, U.S. Military(even though they gave the contract to Beretta because of cheaper costs), and the Homeland security people after exresive testing found the Sigs to outperform the competition. Enough said.

[payne]

I know everyone has just about said all the good stuff there is to say about HK and Sig. I can't really add anything other than I am saving up to buy a new USP now. I can't wait till I can go get one! At first I thought I would get a Sig P226 because their a bit cheaper then a USP, but I decided to go ahead and get the one I wanted most first. Either way I will eventually own both a Sig and a HK. I just hear so many good things about the guns it's hard to believe all the people are wrong about them.

[OBIWAN]

Everyone is different...that is why there are different guns..go figure.

There are zealots in every camp...which is why you have to be careful about listing any bad points..makes them NUTZ :eek:

Other than the ergonomics, the only real complaints I hear about USP's is broken firing pins.

The only complaints I ever heard about Sigs was rust..less so any more.

I have heard of both HK's and Sigs that were destroyed by bad ammo

I did hear a HK armorer curse the person that developed all the small pieces in the USP fire control group. :D

But Larry Vickers did a marginally scientific test using sand and the HK Tactical did the best...with a custom 1911 coming in second.

Glock 21 did not function