The Ideal Rifle...

[M4A3]

THE IDEAL RIFLE... (http://www.ar15.com/content/articles/idealRifle/)

Real good reading. It supports what I believe is the ideal rifle.

Enjoy.

[WillBrayjr]

There are different firearms for different jobs. Credit a certain rifle chambered for a certain round can cover alot of territory. For me, there really isn't an ideal rifle.

[Dave R]

I agree with everything the article says.

Except I want a larger caliber (personal preference, granted.)

[seeker_two]

I agree with everything the article says.

Except I want a larger caliber (personal preference, granted.)

What else did you expect from AR15.com?.... ;)

Good article, though... :cool:

[Wraith]

I agree with everything the article says.

Except I want a larger caliber (personal preference, granted.)

Get the 6.5 grendel upper. MMmmm *drool* :D

[The Body Bagger]

I prefer the one on the bottom
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/InFALaBill/100-0002_IMG.jpg

[Wraith]

What make is that FAL? She is a beaut.

[FirstFreedom]

It's a good read. Yeah, I'd want a FAL in .308 Win, or for a little lighter, an FN SCAR (small version) in 6mmBR or possibly 6.5 Grendel.

[Lawyer Daggit]

I have no experience with the AR15 but had a client who was ex army who spent some time in Rhodesia. He much preferred the FN- FAL purely on the basis of hitting power in timber.

[The Body Bagger]

Its a DSA STG58 carbine. My favorite rifle that I own and have shot. Its an older picture, now I have a Tapco Gen4 scope mount plate and a cheapie Leapers T168 6x on top. Its not the lightest to lug around but its not that bad either. I figured if our guys could carry a Garand in WW2 we should be able to carry something like this as well. It of course doesn't handle nearly as nice my Armalite m15A2, but its not as cumbersome as some would think.

[Para Bellum]

I prefer the one on the bottom

It's an STG58 (.308). Used to be my service weapon in the (Austrian) army. I hit a target the size of a credit card with it 5 out of 6 times at 300m without scopes. What I aimed at was much bigger of course but the group of 5 was the size of a credit card. Nice gun.

HOWEVER: These days I'd prefer the follow-up to the ST58 (at least in the Austrian Army): the STG77 or better known as Steyr Aug. It has all advantages of the AR-15 and more.

[BusGunner007]

Well, since I like AR's AND Remingtons AND the .308, THIS would be IDEAL: :D

http://www.hunt101.com/img/266783.jpg

[varoadking]

Written by someone with waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time on their hands.

I like my AR's, but I'd take a Garand, or M1A, or FAL any day of the week...

30 caliber rules...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/WTOSAGarand.jpg

[impact]

I'm thinking scout type gun. Something from 243 to 308. I have some barrels that I could cut down to 18 inches and a stock to work with. I just need a donor 700 action and mount a long eye relief scope. I think that would be the near perfect gun.

[Mike F.]

BusGunner07, that is one SWEEEET looking weapon. Er, what exactly is it? :)

Semper Fi,
Mike F.

[BusGunner007]

That AR from Remington's Military Products Division was shown at the SHOT Show.
I found the pic on AR15.com... :)

[Rooftop voter]

I'd take HK-91 with a collapsable stock. The .223 is just not ideal for every situation as the writer would have us think. Since we are only allowed one rifle, chambered in whatever, I'd have to say the .308 would be the most versitile, at least in my mind, and the Hk-91 with a collapsable stock would be the rifle I'd want it in. Since I'd be doing everything with this one rifle I'd want range,accuracy,power, and availability. I believe the hk91 has all of the features I'd need for, MOUT, CQB (stock collapsed), sniping, and hunting. You can't even hunt with a .223 in some states. The only downfall I see is 20rd magazines (which isn't all that bad, carry more mags) and the wieght of the ammo (get stronger). Every rifle has it's purpose. That's why I have a variety. If I was going to do only urban fighting, I'd take my AR, jungle/dessert fighting/surving, My Ak, Long range shots I'd take my cetme. These are just my 2 pennys.

[M4A3]

I'd think you would be beter off 5.56. Out military didnt change from M14 (7.62) to 5.56 for no reason.

You can cary far more ammo, and with in fragmintation range. 5.56 does more damage to tissue...

[LuckyInKentucky]

No offense, but this is only my personal opinion.

After carrying a CAR-16 clone in the Corps. Then graduating to the M249 (SAW), I wouldn't want to carry the AR-15 family again. No offense, but it felt too "Mickey Mouse" to me. The AR-15 feels like a souped up BB gun in my opinion.

That's not to say that the AR-15 isn't reliable, versatile, or light because it is. But when in a hostile engagement, I always found the "Spray and Pray" method to work the best.

That was up until I woke up one morning and had moved on to my next phase and found myself in Camp Pendleton using the M40A1. Now that's a rifle.

[M4A3]

That was up until I woke up one morning and had moved on to my next phase and found myself in Camp Pendleton using the M40A1. Now that's a rifle.

Yeah, the M40A1 is a sweet rifle, but imagine trying to assault somthing with one...

[grey_pilgrim]

I have only slightly greater than zilch real life centerfire rifle experience.


But:

I would say that the ideal rifle would depend on what you want to do with it. If we are going to assume "everything", then I would say it would have

simplicity, weight, and accuracy of an m4
Reliability of an ak
Stopping power of a FAL.

This would give you a rifle you could use for long range hunting (up to 300 yards or more), you could carry it anywhere, it would be reilable, and simple to maintain.

Sadly, we must compromise.

For a hunter, i would argue that something like a savage f11 in 308 or a kimber 84m in 308/7mm-08 would be a good choice. Light, accurate, simple, reliable, and has good stopping power.

For home defense, i think a saiga 308 would be just the ticket, if it came with a pistol grip, and abundant hi cap mags. (I realize that you can convert, and that hi caps are coming, but i just have a "thing" about not doing major stuff to a gun) Could be a bit more accurate and lightweight, though. And i wish it had a slightly longer barrel.

[CarlosDJackal]

METT-TSW No such things as a one size fits all. JM2CW.

[Mike F.]

Well, technically any assualt rifle is meant to be used for...well, assaulting an objective. Which means you need some type of squad or fire team (at minimum) to lay down covering fire and to allow for assault and maneuver. This could have changed since I got out, but while I was in the Marines each fire team had an M249 SAW as well as the M203 grenade launcher to augment the fire team's firepower.

So if we take into account the fact that we'll probably never be organized into such squads (really dependent upon your SHTF scenario I guess) and also the fact that we (more than likely) wouldn't have the larger support weapons I'd almost have to say that something like 7.62 or .308 in a semi-automatic platform would be the ideal compromise.

Semper Fi,
Mike F.

[The Body Bagger]

and with in fragmintation range. 5.56 does more damage to tissue...


Are we talking about the current 62gr M855's? Or the M193 55's? And what barrel length are we talking about. You are of course well aware of the somewhat unreliable fragmentations resulting from the m855's and less than 20" length barrels as in the M4's right? Something that is dependent solely on necessary velocity out of the right barrel length and twist not to mention uniform conformity of jacket thickness is asking a lot for your basic SHTF one and only rifle. Myself I went the 16" mid length and will only use 55gr. M193's. While I appreciate the AR/M16 family of rifles I'd rather have carried a 7.62nato for its more effective lethality range and especially if there was any chance of having to shooting through cover. For instance the M249SAWS (5.56) are all well and good for covering fire but no one in their right minds would take it over an M240 (7.62).

[JohnKSa]

After carrying a CAR-16 clone in the CorpsWhich "CAR-16 clone" is the Corps issuing these days?

[buzz_knox]

I was wondering about that CAR-16 myself. Never head of a Force Recon member who got the nomenclature that wrong. ;)

[natedog]

Perhaps he got it at the same place he got his 1/4MOA at 800m Draganov.

[Marko Kloos]

That would be the pre-mission armament screen in Rainbow Six.

[The Body Bagger]

Originally Posted by LuckyKentucky
After carrying a CAR-16 clone in the Corps

and the thing is, at home behind the computer screen its being pronounced Cor Pse.

[Lawyer Daggit]

I agree with Mike F- an Assault rifle is meant to be augmented by other assault rifles and equipment. Faced with this situation one is probably better off choosing a full size battle rifle round and a firearm that has the capacity to deliver the round with some accuracy. This was Geoff Cooper's idea with the Scout Rifle, although I think the Bolt Action platform is a bit slow in this day and age- although the Germans were not too incapacitated by it when fighting semi auto armed Americans during WW2.

[artsmom]

/*I'd think you would be beter off 5.56. Out military didnt change from M14 (7.62) to 5.56 for no reason. */

Don't take this personally, but:

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Someone somewhere is probably saying the same thing about that abomination of a canteen inflicted on Americans until the advent of hydration packs.

I am absolutely sure the military didn't do it for "no reason", just as I am absolutely sure that they didn't do it for a "good, well thought out reason". I believe the most common reason given was that studies showed that most draftees never hit what they were aiming at, or never aimed at all, so give them lighter ammunition so they can carry more chances while trying to overcome Powerball like odds of ever wounding an enemy combatant.

[Mike F.]

Artsmom, the draftee theory would have (possibly) been valid 30 years ago. However, since we've had an all volunteer force for about that long now, I can't see it as being a valid reason. The canteen works perfectly well for what it's designed to do. I could be wrong, but I don't think the CamelBak hydration systems have any type of NBC cap to keep contaminates out of the drinking tube or for allowing use of it while in a gas mask.

Semper Fi,
Mike F.

[artsmom]

/*Artsmom, the draftee theory would have (possibly) been valid 30 years ago. However, since we've had an all volunteer force for about that long now, I can't see it as being a valid reason.*/

Well, the decision WAS made 30 years ago, and that long ago decision was not made in light of what type of force we would have one generation later.

You are very correct that today's average Marine or soldier is much more likely to aim his weapon and hit his target. I just finished reading a book titled "Generation Kill" that chronicles a Marine Recon unit in the Iraq Invasion, and one combat officer with long experience was astonished that every Marine he saw actively engaged every time he had a chance. I also have seen a video where a SAW gunner was so confident of his marksmanship, that he squeezed off single rounds to knock off an RPG armed insurgent.

So, given that the dramatically increased abilities of today's troops, I guess we need to ask whether they should still be using a cartridge designed for missing, or get one designed for hitting, or if it really doesn't matter.

[gak]

Sleeker, better built, lighter (maybe with different, lighter gas system like M-1 Carbine, if that's possible) AK/Mini 30 7.62x39 type. Want a little more range? --add some barrel length and a scope for those conditions. If one were to create a weapon from scratch..., while I agree with comments that the 308 is somewhat the holy grail of a round, maybe a little heavy format for the all-rounder...so maybe a rimless 7mm-08 (necked down 308), still doesn't get rid of much rifle weight though..so maybe a "rimless 30-30" (ok, so that's essentially an AK x39) or 7-30 waters, the latter basically a necked down 30-30 with 7mm/.284 bullet = more range/accuracy/sizzle with only slightly decreased energy. All this in an 18" "carbine" type format with 25-30 rd detachable mag.

[esldude]

Sure looks to me like the answer was decided, and then the article to justify that choice.

No one size fits all I don't think.

If you had a shotgun, you could make it work for most things. Same with a .22 or a bolt action. Even a single shot.

I don't think a survival choice would necessarily be made mostly on the usefulness in CQB. If you survive long in most such situations, you will be avoiding such combat more than anything.

In short a ridiculous article actually.

Didn't the settlers of the old West use mostly shotguns? The real gun that won the west. Not sure you can overall do better now.

[progunner1957]

"The Ideal Rifle"

.50BMG caliber
1.5-50X day/night vision range finding scope
Weighs 5 lbs.
Recoil & muzzle blast comparable to a Ruger 10/22
Costs $99.95 -and-
No 4473 required! :D :D