Walter PPK or Bersa Thunder .380

[tom650604]

The wife is kinda interested in shooting with me at the range sometime in the future. I'm thinking a .380 will do. I like the silver stainless color looks of the PPk, however bersa also have one in nickel. They both look very similar, however the price is way different.

She's not looking to ccw. I will keep it either way when I buy it. I hate reloading so I hope these guns will hold around 10 rounds.

Help?

[dasmi]

I've not shot either, but from what I've read, the Bersa is cheaper, more reliable, and shoot as well as the PPK.

[rellascout]

The Bersa is a very nice gun. It can be had for $200. It is very reliable and easy to shoot. The Bersa hold 7 rounds unless you get the deluxe mag which holds 9.

I don't have a PPk but a lot of people conplain about reliablity and about the fact its hammer bites a lot of shooters.

If she is not looking to CCW why not by a 9mm. It is cheaper to shoot. 9mm cost about $110 per 1000 rounds while 380 auto runs about $145 per 1000 rounds. Plus a good 9mm will have less recoil then the blow back design of the two 380 autos you are considering.

Rellascout

[allen268]

If you put Bersa 380 into a search engine youd be hard pressed to find anything negative said about it (regardless of price), Ive read so many great reviews on it that I ended up buying one for myself, I have several more expensive guns and the Bersa is still one of my favorites.

[johndavid400]

Get her the Bersa, my girlfriend stole mine and won't let me have it back :mad: , it is the only gun that I own that she will shoot.... she hates my 9mm's for some reason but just absolutely loves that Bersa. 4500 rounds through it and has functioned 100% and accuracy is still superb. You can't really go wrong if you buy a Bersa 380, and you will wonder why you ever even considered a PPK. In addition, you can also get 10 round range mags from www.fourfourmag.com for about $15 each, but like they said, it comes with one 7 round factory mag with a nice grip extension/finger rest. Easily the best (new) gun for $200 out there.

[9mmsnoopy]

never owned/fired a bersa, i did own 2 ppk's, i cant say enough BAD things about them. i say get the bersa.

[InToItTRX]

Unless your going to fork $1,000 or more for a German PPK go with the Bersa. These new S&W PPK's with the Walther name are terrible.

[Geoff Timm]

For less money than the PPK, go with a Bersa in .22 LR and one in .380..

Best of all three worlds.

Geoff
Who is squandering his money on Kahr this year. Maybe next year Bersa. :cool:

[Nortonics]

Get that Bersa, you won't regret it. For $200 you will not put your hands on a finer gun, and your wife will love it - so easy to shoot and accurate. Maintenance and take-down is a snap. It is the .380 to beat.

Good web site & forum representing it here:

Chapterhouse - The Bersa Thunder 380 (http://www.geocities.com/bersa_thunder/)

http://home.comcast.net/~tonorton/shooting/Bersaflyer2of6.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~tonorton/shooting/Bersaflyer3of6.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~tonorton/shooting/Bersaflyer5of6.jpg

[andymiesha]

I own a Bersa Thunder .380 Duotone. I love it. Iv'e never shot a PPk. I wouldn't pay that kinda of money for a .380 anyway.

AB

[Ala Dan]

I have owned or shot both, the Walther PPK and the Bersa Thunder DT
.380. Both have their good points, Walther the bad point as it bites!
The stainless American made Walthers had many problems very
early, under the InterArms franchise; some were excellent and did
function flawlessly, other's simply wouldn't run under any conditions.
Since the merger with S&W, IMHO the Walthers QC has risen to new
heights. But still, at only $199 OTD the Bersa is the best value on
the USA firearms market these days. And its a darn fine little pistol
in its own right! :cool: :D

Best Wishes,

[SouthpawShootr]

From the two choices you list, I'd go with the Bersa. Walthers are famous for taking extensive breakin before running smoothly (my own stainless PPK/s didn't start running right until right around 500 rounds - up to that point, it jammed nearly every magazine with factory mags and factory ammo). Unreliable guns make for no fun at the range. Bersas have developed a good reputation for reliability. I've been bitten by my PPK/s a number of times. If you have meaty hands, you could be in for a rough ride (I remedied the problem by using a lower grip).

Now, my absolute first choice for a .380 would be a Beretta 84F, second choice would be 85F. The 84 has a 13 round capacity, if I'm not mistaken. They cost just a little more that a new Walther. Since CCW is not an issue, this sort of gun is perfect for people with small hands. My 85 (7 or 8 round capacity, I forget which) was the most accurate .380 I've ever shot and never once jammed. I'm still kicking myself for getting rid of it.

[seb5]

19 years ago I bought my wife a Browning .380 made by Beretta because of the light recoil, high capacity, and ergonomics. She liked it and still has it.

[tom650604]

Thank to all. Looks like we have a winner and it goes to BERSA. :)
Heck, I can get two bersa for the price of the ppk.

[CHARLIEWALLERFAN]

... and was just wondering why the ultra-negative opinons of them.

So, could someone please tell me exactly why the new S&W PPK's are so bad? Do they jam? Do they fall apart after 100 rounds? Please tell me what to expect.

Or is what I'm reading just mis-information by people who don't actually own a PPK/S?

Not criticizing anyone on this thread, it just seems that I always read about people "hearing bad things" about the new ones.


Here is my experience so far after only about 200 rounds, an admittedly small amount of shooting:

1. This is not your 20-year-old POS Interarms PPK/S. It has been re-desighed and updated by S&W.
2. Utterly reliable with Win. White Box FP's (I can't afford HP's yet for practice)
2. No bite, they put a tang on it
3. extremely accurate, thogh POI is a little high
4. Sights still suck. Actually the rear sight is a nice, wide notch - it's just thet the front sight is so miniscule that you can't pick it up easily.
5. Single action trigger is crisp, excellent for bullseye shooting fun.
6. I actually like the double action. I guess they must have changed it, it's heavy but when it goes it does NOT throw me off target like my SW99 does.
7. It does NOT have sharp edges anywhere. The tang needs more rounding however. Being lazy, I use a piece of inner tube under the tang while shooting.
8. Recoil is LIGHT, the lightest I've ever experienced in a semi-auto. It's changed my opinions on the .380 for self-defense it's so manageable.
9. I prefer the all-steel of it to any Bersa. Aluminum cracks eventually.

Hope this helps.

[rellascout]

I think that there are a lot of good PPKs out there. I do not own one. Everything I read when I was looking for a 380 autos was that the PPK is hit or miss. Some people love them others have nothing but trouble.

I think people lash out at them because they are expensive. They are 2x the price of a Bersa. When you pay more and get less reliablity it is very disappointing. The Bersa is alumimum but unless you plan to give it to your kids as a family airloom its not going to matter.

The Bersa is just such a great value that when compared to the PPk it always wins. IMHO

Rellascout

[michael t]

Well I own and shoot both I really like my PPK/S but for the money the Bersa wins hands down My Bersa has less felt recoil than my PPK , has never had a malfunction of any type(I only use factory ammo) Its just a great pistol all around.
Buy a PPK even today is a coin toss I have a old interarms PPK/s Mine has always worked perfect just like the Bersa .I already read of people having problems with the S&W
Take the money you would spend on a PPK/S buy the Bersa couple extra factory mags some ammo, and with whats left go have a nice dinner after shooting. Then you can tell everybody how great your Bersa is. :) :)

join us at bersatalk.com

[InToItTRX]

I went through 2 S&W PPK's, one came damaged, the second worked fine for about 300 rounds then the trigger would not fire in double action, it would kind of slip, its hard to explain. After three trips to S&W they decided they could not fix it and gave me my money back. Now I just bought a German one, it has never been fired someone bought it and put it away for 30 years, we will see how it goes. I will post a report when I fire it.

[sthsquid]

I don't understand all the PPK bad-mouthing. I have owned 2 PPK/S's, I sold the first not because I didn't like it but because I needed $$. I have recently purchased a second (this one is used) and like that as well. My friend has a PPK and loves it.

These are all the "pre S&W" Interarms ones, I can't speak for the newer ones. I am sure for the money the Bersa is a great gun, but the PPK is getting a bad rap, I think. I don't find the recoil and issue, either.

Everybody puts out a lemon now and again - I know a couple members here had real bad luck with their PPK's....guess what, it can happen with any make of gun.


Good luck whatever you decide.

[InToItTRX]

The PPK would not be getting a bad "rap" if the americans kept their hands off making them.

[michael t]

I would like a German made but way to much money. So I keep my POS Interarms that has never let me down. :)

[9mmsnoopy]

"
Everybody puts out a lemon now and again - I know a couple members here had real bad luck with their PPK's....guess what, it can happen with any make of gun."


thats very true, but if you buy 2 and they are both lemons then somethings wrong. the 2 that i had were of the interarms variety, not the new s&w, so i cant speak for them. its very dissapointing to shell out that kinda scratch and have the guns malfunction. its a shame because i think the ppk/s is one of the sharpest looking guns on the market.

[InToItTRX]

I dont mean to sound down on the PPK either, I love the gun, it is by far one of the best guns I have shot, even my broken S&W ones. But a gun that size I use every now and then when its to hard to conceal my Beretta, and I need to be able to trust it.

Like you said I can also understand a lemon, however not two in a row, and not with all of the other problems I have herd with the S&W PPK's. Interarms I am sure is better, but IMO nothing beats the good old made in germany from Walther themselves.

[Combat Kenny]

Hello everybody

I own a Interarms PPK/S, S&W PPK/S and a Bersa 380. I like all of them. The Bersa is inexpensive and pretty good shooting. When I think of PPK, I had some problems with the Interarms with jamming. It came out to be the magazine. But that was after I picked up the S&W. I have no problems with the S&W. The extra beaver tail was a plus though. Yet, when many people think of PPK, they also think of Colt 1911, Colt single action, and Luger P 08. It is a gun that changed history. It is the first double action automatic to be put into service. James Bond (007) helped alot too. And there are so many copies of it, FEG, Makarov, Mauser and of course the Bersa. Now, like all things, sometimes there are several bad apples out there. But I believe that you can pick it up because of price or you can pick it up for a piece of history too.

Good Shooting

[Hal]

Hands down a used PPK is the way to go.

If after you (she) shoot(s) it, you find the .380 still to your liking, then sell it and get the Bersa.

Straight blowbacks in .380 like the Bersa and the PPK can have a very uncomfortable level of recoil, all out of proportion to the size and power of the round.

A PPK (used) will usually retain 100% of what you paid for it,,,the Bersa won't.

[CHARLIEWALLERFAN]

Boy, if I had 3 bad PPK's, I would be down on them too.

So what do you think S&W is doing to screw them all up? Is mine going to fall apart or something?


Sounds like people who get a good PPK like them very much.

Not knocking the Bersa, because I had an older one that was okay, but ...

try to sell one used, you'll get a real education in firearms de-valuation. Just my opinion, but to me a "good gun" is not only just a good shooter, it retains its value based on classic appeal. The Bersa is a fine gun that is good for maybe 3,000 to 5,000 rds, which is acceptable to most shooters but not to me.

As for the out-of-proportion kick of the .380, as a person extremely sensitive to recoil due to arthritis, I find my S&W PPK/s to be not much more than a .22 in recoil.

[rellascout]

The Bersa will last longer than 5,000 rounds. Do the research and you will see people reporting 10,000 + with no issues and still firing.

Why would you expect a $200 gun to holds its value? Also why would you sell it? It has a lifetime warranty so if you did have a failure you send it back and they fix it or they replace it.

You stated "Just my opinion, but to me a "good gun" is not only just a good shooter, it retains its value based on classic appeal."

I am not knocking the PPK but what good is the classic appeal of a gun that jams? If something jams it goes on to the shelf in the safe until I need the money for a new toy. Which leads me to my next point which is a used PPK is more likely to have problems because if it was reliable the orginal owner would have kept thier little piece of history. It sounds like a lot of people are buying PPKs with their hearts not their heads.


Rellascout

[InToItTRX]

If you bought a German PPK, and probably some american made ones, they will only go up in value if you take care of them.

[sthsquid]

"thats very true, but if you buy 2 and they are both lemons then somethings wrong."

Ok fair enough. Not trying to start an argument here, but I am simply curious......if the first PPK you bought had problems, why did you get a second one?

Hal also makes a good point - resale will definitely be better on the Walther (so if you get a "lemon", you can recoup more of your cash :D )

I have nothing against Bersa either, in fact I am seriously looking at the Thunder .45 for my next purchase - I just happen to like my Walther too.

[springfieldmaniac]

I prefer the Sig 230 over the PPK.The Sig is awsome.Sure the Bersa is more economical,but sell the Sig or Bersa on the used gun market see which holds the value more.The Sig also has SS frame as opposed to alloy.At the very least,look at them all,hold,them,and compare quality,features,function,warranty.Take care

[InToItTRX]

The first PPK I bought did not even fire, so the gun store/S&W gave me another one.

[CHARLIEWALLERFAN]

Rellascout,

I am just not following your logic, which seems circular to me. And maybe it’s just me, but your post seemed to contain some sarcasm. Maybe I just took it wrong. Here’s what I think of your response to my post.

The 5,000 rounds guestimate is not mine but is based on internet research on this and many, many other forums. Is there somewhere better that you’d like to suggest we all go to get this kind of information? Additionally, it’s rude to suggest to someone to “go do some research” when you really have no way of knowing whether they have or not.

I don’t believe there are throngs of people with 10,000 rds through their Bersa who haven’t replaced a few parts. I've seen exactly ONE person make this claim, so for you to say this is somehow typical for all the Bersas seems like a stretch. Even if it were true, are you really going to say that a $200 aluminum pistol is going to have a service life as long as a steel-framed American equivelent? I mean, is that where you’re going with this?


YOU STATED:
“Why would you expect a $200 gun to holds its value? Also why would you sell it? It has a lifetime warranty so if you did have a failure you send it back and they fix it or they replace it. “

Well where I come from, $200 is not disposable income, it’s an investment. Times being uncertain as they are, there may come a day when I have to decide between keeping the pistol and feeding my family. Obviously, no matter how much I like a gun, my family is going to come first. Are you saying that there some positive aspect of losing money on a gun that I am not aware of? And BTW, in 5, 10 or 15 years, will you still be able to get service for your Bersa? I’m pretty sure S&W will still be around to take advantage of any warranty repairs I may need.

I’ve been collecting/shooting handguns for almost 20 years, and I’ve seen importers come and go. This is why I personally advise going with popular models marketed by mainstream gun manufacturers. Maybe I’m just hard on my equipment. Maybe I just like plentiful parts and accessories on down the road. It’s just my opinion.


YOU STATED:
“... what good is the classic appeal of a gun that jams .... a used PPK is more likely to have problems because if it was reliable the orginal owner would have kept thier little piece of history. It sounds like a lot of people are buying PPKs with their hearts not their heads.”

Um, I was meaning “classic appeal” as in “if it ain't broke, don’t fix it”, not “James Bond used it so it’s the best". Do you really mean to imply that the PPK/S is an incompetent design that only star-struck wannabe’s utilize? Is that really why it has survived for over SEVENTY YEARS in commercial production? Is that why Bersa copied it?

Did you read my earlier posts above? If so you’d know my PPK has not been a “jammer”, so I’m not sure why you seem to say they all jam. As for used PPK’s all being lemons, remember there are lots of reasons someone might sell a gun. At least most of the used guns I’ve bought have worked fine. You aren’t one of those guys who only sells something after you’ve broken it, are you?

[ratherbfishin60]

I bought a Bersa .380 last June. The first time I pulled the trigger on it, it didn't fire. After putting a little oil on it, it worked fine; but after about 70 rounds, the firing pin was no longer hitting the primers hard enough. I took it back to the gun shop - apparently, the firing pin spring was messed up - he replaced the spring with one laying around in the back of the shop, and it has worked fine ever since. The problem may have been that the pistol had been left on safety too long while in the shop (not being a gun expert, I couldn't say for sure). On the up side, the Bersa's recoil shouldn't be too much for anyone, it's plenty accurate for the distances at which one shoots a gun with a 3-inch barrel, and the only person I know who's had a problem with their Bersa is me.

[Logs]

I think the bersa is a great buy for the money. I am sure the ppk is a good gun, but you will pay twice as much.

[9mmsnoopy]

"Ok fair enough. Not trying to start an argument here, but I am simply curious......if the first PPK you bought had problems, why did you get a second one?"




dont mind explaining that at all.... the first one i bought was a used one, after i had problems with it i thought it must have been because it was used, so i bought a brand new one, it made no difference at all, more of the same.

[glock19er]

when you are buying a walther you are just buying the name i have both of them and the bersa is more reliable than the walther.even if the walther is a better fit and finish than the bersa.the bersa shoots everything i put thru it at a fraction of the price and thats a shame coming from a 200 dollar handgun compared to a 550 dollar handgun that i paid for both of them.my walther will retire back to the gunshop for a sig 380 very soon :D

[InToItTRX]

With all my troubles I would not say that when you buy Walther your only buying the name. Unless it is an American made PPK your talking about. Walther makes other fine firearms.

[slick slidestop]

Well, I have an Interarms PPK that I bought after I shot my buddies.
He had his for several years with NO problems and I really liked it, so I got one also.

I must be lucky like my friend, because mine has been flawless like his. I can shoot D cell batteries at 15 yards, and have never had any FTF's etc in more than 5 or 6 years(or longer I can't remember when i bought it.. lol).

I have heard all the horror stories about PPK's, and I can hardly believe it because I have had such good luck with mine. Just goes to show you, sometimes it is hit and miss.

The Bersa is also a great gun. I have never heard anything but good things about them.

[sthsquid]

Hooray....another happy PPK Interarms owner :p

[missourigunner]

FWIW: Much of the popularity of the Walther PPK, comes to us from James Bond Movies. I own one ND IN MY OPINION IT IS TOO EXPENSIVE, NOT THAT GREAT A SHOOTER AND WATCH THAT HAMMER. :) :) :)

[w4klr]

I shelled out the $433 from budsgunshop online... I love the Walther name, and I feel my noisy cricket was worth the money. Brand new out of box, little kick (come on guys... kick is a .44, not a .380), superb accuracy, good looks and comfortable carry sends my vote to the PPK.

[Spitfire]

Well i hate to burst the PPK guys claim to a higher resale value, but the claim is not true. I researched prices on several gun sites on new and used prices of both manufacturers. Taking an average from both the new and used prices on each gun the Bersa retains 84% of its value the PPK retains 78%.

[SouthpawShootr]

WATCH THAT HAMMER

Never been bitten by that hammer, but the rear lower corners of the slide have drawn blood on more than one occasion. Looks like a snake bite.

A simple shift to a lower grip took care of the problem.

[ppks/1]

I just purchased a walther ppks/1 and shot 50 rounds and it worked perfectly. So far I am very satisfied with the gun. I carry it as a ccw and find its size to be perfect.
I never got a bite of any kind. Great little point with jhp for carry.

[Dog Confetti]

Look into a PA-63. Identical to a PPK on the outside (don't know about the guts), but chambered in 9x18 (hotter than .380) and a whole lot cheaper...I paid $175 and I got burned. Very reliable but not real accurate.