pump gun illegal, how about .410 lever action shotgun for defense?

[Para Bellum]

due to nonsense-laws in my country (Austria) pumpguns are illegal. So I am thinking of a .410 lever-action shotgun such as the Winchester 9410 ranger (below) to support my Glock 19s for home-defense.

1. is the .410 caliber appropriate for self-defense (I own a double-barrel 12/70 shotgun with 28" barrels and 45" overall-length which seems a bit long and limited - 2 shots only - for home-defense...)

2. any information on .410 stopping-power out there?

3. any experience with the Winchester 9410 ranger?

4. any (other) recommendations?

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/images/514007m.jpg

Caliber / Gauge .410
Magazine Capacity 6
Barrel Length 20"
Nominal Overall Length 38 1/8"
Nominal Length of Pull 13 1/2"
Nominal Drop at Comb 1 1/8"
Nominal Drop at Heel 1 7/8"
Nominal Weight 6 lbs. 8 oz.
Chokes Included (3) - Standard Invector™ Choke System with three choke tubes supplied: Full, Modified & Imp Cylinder.
Chamber Size 2 1/2"
U.S. Suggested Retail $647

Thanks a lot and stay safe!

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Can you own a lever rifle???

Might want to look into a .44 mag or .357 mag---lever action rifle----more shots----lower cost-----and a bit more powerfull than a .410.

[12-34hom]

410 guage with deer slugs approaches @ 41 mag level FPE. - I used to have an older 870 wingmaster i stoked with 8 of those loads - 1/5 once slug - @ 1800fps - good to @ 100 yards.

Recoil is negligible - fast follow up shots possible if necessary.

12-34hom.

[FirstFreedom]

I thought we decided that pump guns were illegal, but semi-autos were not there?

[Para Bellum]

Hi FirstFreedom,

yes, you are right, not we but our lawmakers decided that pump was illegal, semi-auto was legal and lever-action is legal, too. My "problem" is though, that as far as I know (and I don't know much about shotguns) semi-auto 12ga shotguns are quite long. Too long for home-defence I assume.

That's why I think of a shorter lever-action.

+ My favourite would be a lever-action in 12ga. Does that exist?

+ does a short semi-auto 12ga shotgun exist (shorter than 35,5"/90cm is also illegal in my peaceful country :( ?

Thanks for your advice and stay safe.

[Johnny Guest]

12-34hom I think you may have miscalculated those figures.

A .410 Remington slug load shows up as 1/5 ounce at 1380 fps, which they calculate at 654 foot pounds energy. 1/5 ounce is some 87.4 gr., which, multiplied by the 1380 fps, indicates a 159210 momentum figure. (IPSC power factor of 159.)

The .41 Remington mag 210 gr JSP load shows a velocity of 1300 fps, with 788 FPE. These two figures, multiplied, indicate 273000 momentum.

Back down to .357 mag - 158 at 1235 fps = 195131 momentum

Heck, check out some of the kinder, gentler auto pistol rounds;

.45 ACP 230 at 835 = 192,050 momentum

.40 S&W 180 at 1015 = 182,700

Para Bellum, I believe I read that you can pretty well own whatever rifles you want in Austria. How about a lever action carbine? I think Winchester, Marlin, and at least one Italian maker all offer a 16-inch barrelled carbine in .357 magnum. These ought to fire a 158 gr. holllow point around 1400 or greater. This is a lot handier than the longer barrel .410 shotgun, and is extremely versatile- - Everything from 130 gr .38 special loads to 180 gr hunting loads. Not to mention, the range is a lot greater and accuracy is better than with the lightweight .410 slugs.

Same companies offer a similar carbine in .44 magnum.

Best wishes--
Johnny

[Para Bellum]

Thanks everybody. I think I'll go for a Winchester Trapper 94 in .44 Magnum then (16" barrel):
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/images/534094m.jpg

stay safe!

[thelast2]

Hey read this thread and while it has to be the craziest thing I have ever heard making a pump gun illegal and not the semi-auto. But in answer to your question they make a shorter version of the semi-autos just as they do the pump gun most semi autos are 21" barrel in the shortest configuration from the factory which is only 3" longer than the comparable pump guns which are 18". Hell I would rather have the semi auto anyway little more money but definitly no worries on the follow up shots and no chance you will forget to pump the gun in CQB (Close Qaurters Battle).

[seb5]

I wonder how long a benelli M-1 S-90 is with a 14 inch tube? If not then an 18 or 20.

[gordo b.]

well those wicked pump guns are associated with the wicked america! :barf:
Listen if you can own a 14" barreled shot gun just get a Benelli semi auto! I'd stay away from leveraction and american calibers if I was a citizen over there. It might upset the socialist commies who would be judgeing your defensive actions! Besides unless you live in a remote area a .44mag has quite a bit of penetration in a house. ;)