The Amazing .357 Sig

[ArmaLube]

As you know, two major schools of thought divide the campus of pistol cartridge performance analysis. Choose the one that makes you happy! My preference is the one characterized by smaller, lighter, high velocity projectiles.

Several outstanding pistol cartridges for defense applications are available within each of the schools. One worthy of close scrutiny is the .357 Sig.

It is easy to find pistols chambered for .357 Sig that are reasonably compact and eminently carryable. Featuring very respectable delivered energy, .357 Sig pistols fill the bill for a wide range of applications, including police duty, home defense, and personal protection.

http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/357/357SIG-advoc.htm
http://www.gunweek.com/2002/feature0210.html
http://www.glockmeister.com/357sig.shtml
http://www.real-guns.com/Commentary/comar66.htm
http://www.real-guns.com/Commentary/comar25.htm
http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_10_45/ai_55605825
http://handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/40.357.compare.htm

.40 S&W is Good: (So is 10mm, .45 ACP, 9mm, and a few others)

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/sept97s&w40.html

Stopping Power:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/beginners_stopping_power.htm
http://www.booktrail.com/Guns_Handguns/Handgun%20Stopping%20Power%20-%20The%20Definitive%20Study.asp
http://www.cpu.lu/handguns/database/reports/StoppingPower/Power.htm

For each person, the problem reduces to finding the proper balance of stopping power, ease of control, compactness and ease of handgun concealment, comfort of carry, and confidence in the weapon. To reach your individualized ideal solution, you must solve the equation yourself.

The .357 Sig exhibits relatively mild recoil and excellent accuracy and thus is a great choice for precise bullet placement. The need for proper bullet placement is a given.

[OBIWAN]

And the number one answer in our survey......

Being able to hit the target consistently..and repeatedly

[45 Fu]

Most goblins do not read the same things we do and do not know they are supposed to collapse into a steaming pile of refuse when hit. This is why the "one shot stop" and "light & fast vs. slow & heavy" arguments are OK in the academic arena, but 99% worthless in the real world.

Some people do not like the prospect of getting shot. They like the reality of it even less. Most people (good guys and bad guys) fit into this area. That is why you will have people who are shot with a .22 or .25 that stop fighting. The damage may not be that bad but they simply do not want to be shot again. Then there is the other group - those who either don't realize they have been shot or do not care. Again, both the good guys and bad guys fall into this group. A good guy may not realize he's been shot because his training and adrenaline have taken over and he's fighting to win. A bad guy is hopped up on angel dust and the loud noise you just made at him has made him want to kill you and nothing can stop him.

The only thing that counts is holes in the right place. The bigger the hole the better. Handguns used for self defense just do not crank out the energy and velocity to do the damage most people think they will. These things only really come into play when we are talking about rifles. If I want to better my chances of hydrostatic shock or CNS shutdown I will grab my rifle. Until then I will continue to carry my 1911 and thank God for J.M. Browning.

[camaroman]

"The only thing that counts is holes in the right place. "

An intricate part of this is the hole. If the round doesn't penetrate... enough said. I personaly prefer the 357Sig.

My .02$

[jem375]

well, don't think it is truly amazing.......it's been around for a long time in the 357 mag............can't even figure out why they call it a 357 Sig when the diameter is .355 anyway........oh, well.....

[45R]

I really like .357Sig. Its a hoot of a round too shoot. Unfortently its also very expensive to shoot on a regular basis.

[Texcowboy9]

A hit with a 38 Special is way better than a miss with a 50 Cal! Hit your target and keep shooting until the threat is stopped. In my younger days I thought there was only one caliber and that was 45ACP. Now I have most calibers that I carry as CCW. During the hot summer months my KelTex 32 and my S&W Model 37 are with me the most. During the winter, it is 45, 40,357,357SIG, and 9MM, just whatever the 'gun Dujour' is . :cool:

[juliet charley]

357 SIG = 9x19 performance (penetration and expansion) at the price of decreased capacity, increased cost, more wear and tear on the weapon and less controllability! Truly amazing (that people fall for it)! :D

[camaroman]

357Sig = 9mm???? :rolleyes: No intention to bend egos but....
I have done alot of trials with the 9mm, 357sig, and 45acp against clothed targets. The 357Sig penetrated better than the 9mm or the 45. The 357Sig also expanded better than the 9mm.

Truly amazing that people don't practice in the field. Just like with rifle ballistics, what it does in the field counts, ballistic data in a book will only get you so far.

Everyone is intitled to their own beleif. For everyone safety though, it might help to make sure you have the facts. Carry what works for you.

[Handy]

If .357 Sig is "amazing", what does that make .38 Super, 9x23 or any other round that easily duplicates it's ballistics? (Aside from more flexible and easier to reload? ;) )

[juliet charley]

That's funny, camaroman, every test I have seen have show the 9x19 and 357 SIG running neck in both penetration and expansion (and I've seen lots of different test results/sources by reputable labs). Frankly, I'll trust what I have seen and what has been published by reputable testers/labs over your "trials." The current generation 9x19 and 357 SIG deliver similar penetration and expansion (and in actual LE usage). The only differences are the 357 SIG looses capacity, reduces control, costs more and is harder on the weapon and the shooter compared to the 9x19.

[norielX]

My friend bought a Glock in .357 sig, against my advice that it was not a beginner round. He told me he wanted one anyway. After shooting shotgun sized groups at 10 yards, I tried out his gun (can't remember which model it is, but it's compact) and managed to have 2-3" groups with the gun. I'd been cloverleafing my G-20 and G-21 and had no problems with my S&W 629. The combination of the round and the size of the gun, along with unfamiliarity with the gun had me firing larger groups than usual.

It's great that we have so many choices in cartridges. I'd love to try the .357 in my G20 with a barrel swap, I'll probably have better groups that way. The thing is, since I have a 10mm, there's really no reason for me to want to convert to .357 sig.

The .357 sig shines in the fact that you can have it's power level in the same size gun as a 9mm or a .40 s&w. As for me, I've already got my calibers, 9mm, 10mm, and .45acp.

[camaroman]

Juliet, I gave my .02$ I may have come across wrong with out intending it. I never had understood why people get into heated arguememnts about calibers and dog ona caliber because they dont like it or use it. Oh well.

Lets all sing:
"all the calibers are cool, Kumbaya
we are all friends here, kumbaya
the best caliber is the one you carry, kumbaya"
Amen

Shoot what ya got!
Like Arma Lube said-
"Choose the one that makes you happy!"

[OBIWAN]

Please remember that I got rid of my .357Sigs

When I point out that....

.357 Sig is best compared to HOT 9mm...

Which beats up guns as well

Most people shoot fairly wimpy 9mm for practice....

And then shoot hot 9mm..when it counts.....

All the .357 ammo (that I have shot) is snappy

[blades67]

well, don't think it is truly amazing.......it's been around for a long time in the 357 mag............can't even figure out why they call it a 357 Sig when the diameter is .355 anyway........oh, well.....

Actually, the .357 SIG bullet diameter is .356 and the .357 Magnum bullet diameter is .357. The .38 Special bullet diameter is also .357, yet it is still known as a .38.(yawn)

It is a naming convention and sales tool.

[45 Fu]

OK...All this talk about penetration has got me to thinking (keep your minds out of the gutter). The 9x19 will penetrate so far, the .357 a little farther, the .40 somewhat close, the 10mm will go through...aww forget it.

Really, now. What does it really matter if any of the above will penetrate an inch or two less than the other. Usually the penetration argument is brought up by the light & fast crowd to compensate for their chosen round's lack of girth. IMHO in the end, whether it's a 9x17, 9x18, 9x19, 9x23, .357 Sig, .38 Super really doesn't matter - it's still a .30 (roughly) hole. If we were talking revolvers it wouldn't be a big deal. Maybe they'll expand, maybe they won't. If they do, fine. If not, then all that good velocity will keep that bullet running at a good clip.

Just something to think about.

[jem375]

every reloading book I own has the 357 Sig with a .355 diameter.....the only way it could be .356 is with lead bullets........

[Eric Larsen]

Given, each caliber has its followers........:D Pun intended! The best and hottest of each will do their job if WE DO OURS!

Doing a little recoil test of my own...........+P+ 127 rangers recoil more than the hottest 40 S&W rounds in similar guns.........even my wife thought so.

I like them all and switch once in a while .....just for the hell of it.

Shoot well.

[cratz2]

I think the 357 is as worthy of a choice as the 10mm is... That is to say, it will do it's job, but it borders on overkill for CCW use, in my opinion.

I'm a 45 guy at heart, but I have carried both 9mm and 40 caliber guns and have faith in them. I'd rather have a few more rounds of 9mm +P (por +P+) than a few less rounds of 357 SIG and the bottleneck case. And no one will ever convince me that the Ranger T 357 SIG load is even five percent more effective on soft tissue than the 127 Gr +P+ 9mm Ranger T load.

But that's just me. :D

[saspic]

If .357 Sig is better than 9x19mm,
then 9x25 Dillon kicks 9mm's butt!

It strikes me there are several ways to look at this. The most obvious is to compare .357 Sig to 9x19 because they shoot the same projectile.
But, you can also compare it to the .40S&W or even .45ACP. People love to debate whether a big slow round or small fast one is better. The .357 Sig makes the small fast argument even more compelling.

How about .357 Sig vs. the .357 Magnum? The Sig round was supposed to duplicate the ballistics of the time proven 125 grain .357 Magnum round in a high capacity semiauto. Obviously the Magnum does more overall, but the Sig does well at its intended purpose.

Finally, you have to look at the .357 Sig vs. the 9x25 Dillon. It mirrors the .40S&W vs. 10mm debate, and the 9mm vs. .357 Sig debate. I know you can't find any now, but DoubleTap ammo is going to introduce the first 9x25 Dillon factory ammo soon.
From a 6"bbl:
115gr. @ 1900fps
125gr @ 1775fps
147gr @ 1600fps
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243444&highlight=9x25

[VaughnT]

One of the things that I'm constantly preaching to my coworkers is to NOT fall in love with the newest and coolest. One reason I talk against going with the .357 Sig is simply because of cost and availability, nothing to do with the capabilities of the round.

After years of believing in the .45acp as the endall and beall, I guess I've matured. I now have a nice BHP in 9mm and am looking at getting something for the pocket in .380 or .38spl. The reason for this change of mindset?

I guess I just woke up and realized that it really isn't the weapon that you wear so much as it's the weapon that you are. To be blunt, the best defensive pistol round (pick what you like) isn't going to do you any good if you don't have the training to put holes in the target when you absolutely have to. Training is everything and you have to have a weapon chambered in something you can afford to shoot often.

With my 9mm, I can afford to shoot a lot. That means more training. More training means a better ability to defend myself and others when the bad things happen, god forbid.

[litework]

I think the 357 Sig is a viable caliber. It is one of the most exciting calibers I own. Its down range energy is something to behold. I’ve seen a few tests on the 9mm, as well. In the tests posted at ammo lab for instance, I don’t think the 9mm compared very favorable to the 357 Sig. I was appalled by the number of bullets that failed to expand. They didn’t even post the diameters of the retrieved bullets coming from the 9mm. Still, where are all the 147 grain 357 Sig bullets? No one can argue that the 9mm is one of the most widely accepted and used calibers for defense in the world.

I can compare the 9mm to the 357 Sig, because I have an XD9 and an XD357 Sig. Really cool because my XD357 mags hold 15 rounds of 9mm for the XD 9. The 357 Sig has a lot more snap the 9mm in the same platform. I’ve replaced the guide rod on my XD357 to accommodate a heavier spring which helps reduce wear on the pistol but the snap is still present. The 9mm is more pleasant to shoot, and those people citing controllability as the reason for selecting the 9mm over the 357 Sig have a very good point. I personally choose the XD 357 as my CCW during the summer, only because I haven’t found a good holster for my USP 45 yet. Any caliber that allows me to protect myself covertly is truly amazing.

[Ky Larry]

I CCW a Kimber Custom Defender II in .45 ACP. My neice CCW's a Glock 33 in .357 SIG. My wfe carries a Colt .38 Detective Special. My brother carries a CZ P-01 9mm. Why? Because we all carry what works for us. These "caliber wars" are pointless. Do your part and the gun/round will do it's part.

[juliet charley]

There's not enough difference between any of the service calibres (9x19, 357 SIG, .40 S&W, etc.) about which to get excited. It's really a matter of whatever floats your boat.

[Runner]

.357 Sig may be the next best thing to sliced bread, or maybe not, but the bottom line is that it has not really caught on. I suspect that its future will be in a smaller niche market similar to the 10mm, .41 Mag, etc. For an auto I'm happy to stick with the more common (readily available/cheaper) 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP.