Building 2 AR's

[drivenrhythm]

Here's one:

Let's suppose for a moment that you had an unlimited budget :) and two post-ban A2 AR's to build in any way you like:

#1 a Colt small pin 6601 with a 20" 1:7 HBAR
#2 a Bushmaster XM15 shorty 16" 1:9 HBAR

What would you do to optimize both weapons?

Pat

[ATTICUS]

Not much. Trijicon ACOG for the shorty, and a boatload of mags and ammo for both.

[yorec]

The bushy - leave alone, but add: ACOG sight, Giles Wilderness sling, and a Streamlight tac light.

The Colt - First off I'd change out all the Colt parts for Standard Bushmaster ones. What can I say - I ain't a Colt fan. (Nothing wrong with 'em, I just don't like paying extra from a name and since the pricetag is unlimited I'd prefer to swap out all that small pin related stuff...) Then I'd get an extra flat top upper in 458 SOCOM from Tromix and top it with another ACOG. The first upper I would top that with a 2-7 Leopold Vari-X II. Get a Vers Bi-pod or a Harris, I like 'em both equally... Maybe one for each upper?

Oh and the boatload of ammo and mags that Atticus mentioned. You did say money was no object? Make that a 120 foot barg full to the sinking point...

And as long as money is no object, can you also say supressed .300 Whisper?

Dang addicting habbit, ARs...

[MessedUpMike]

A Trijicon Reflex 2 sight w/ triangle appeture, Houge pistol grip, and Skeleton stock just for fun.
On the Bushy.


Mike

[drivenrhythm]

The Trijicon ACOG or the EOTech holosight...
I'm familiar with the EOTech, but not the Trijicon ACOG. Does the Trijicon work without batteries? I like the EOTech with AA batteries for the convenience, but I'd prefer not to have to rely on batteries at all.

Trading out Colt parts with Bushy? Is there a reliability issue, or is that personal preference? I do have Bushmaster spare springs, pins etc. I put a JP tensioning pin on the Colt, but used an accuwedge on the Bushmaster and I honestly can't see much advantage to the tensioning pin. Another negative for the pin: it's a pain to work with. I am using the Hogue grip on both, and I like the feel.

Boatload of ammo...I have a half dozen battle packs of the South African surplus 55gr (for plinking, not storage), a few hundred rounds of Olympic SS109 (which isn't consistant and thank God for headspace guages) plus a couple of hundred rounds of Winchester Q3131A Israeli stuff. Picked up some Sierra match 77grain Black Hills to test on the 1:7 Colt, and V-max 60 gr Black Hills to work with the Bushy. I'll be at the range throughout the month of January fine turning my ammo choices.

So far...I'm tempted to stay with the 1:7 HBAR and optimize the Colt for longer range and heavier bullets, but I like the feel of the Bushmaster carbine for quick response and close quarters, and I believe this will become my primary. I may put a ton of rounds downrange with the 16" HBAR during practice, but I really believe I'll be changing the upper on the Bushy for use as my SHTF TEOTWAWKI thunder stick. Is there any advantage to the M4 configuration over the A2 carbine as it exists now? I prefer a leaner and quicker (more reliable) weapon to a high tech rifle with all the gadgets.

Thanks for the responses.

Pat

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Is there any advantage to the M4 configuration over the A2 carbine as it exists now? I prefer a leaner and quicker (more reliable) weapon to a high tech rifle with all the gadgets.

All other things being equal, a carbine/shorty will be less reliable than a 20". This is primarily due to the AR15 gas system which was designed around a 20" barrel. In the shorter barrels you are still using parts designed for a 20" gas system but the gas has less distance to travel and the gun cycles both harder and faster. This can show itself as extraction problems, brass shaving and a hundred other different things. Having said that you are talking a pretty small margin still - the carbines are plenty reliable and can run for thousands of rounds with no failures.

The 20" 1/7 twist will let you get good terminal performance out to 225 yds with the right ammo. The 16" 1/9 may not stabilize the heavier bullets (and these continue to have good terminal performance even at low velocities) and the 16" will bleed off velocity in any case so that the range before your wound profile drops to that of a really fast .22 is between 125-185 (depending on whether you can use the heavier rounds)

Still, I like the 16" barrel. They are light, handy and fast. It is what I use most of the time myself.

[drivenrhythm]

All other things being equal, a carbine/shorty will be less reliable than a 20". This is primarily due to the AR15 gas system which was designed around a 20" barrel. In the shorter barrels you are still using parts designed for a 20" gas system but the gas has less distance to travel and the gun cycles both harder and faster.

I have seen pigtail shaped tubes that were purported to be a solution to the hard cycling action of the carbine. Do these actually work, and would they require fitting underneath the handguard?

My concern with the M4 is as you mentioned, with the shorter barrel I would think the M4 would lose velocity even further. I know...the comp makes it the legal length, but the added 1.5" of the compensator does nothing to extend the rifling. I have a Smith comp (allen screwed) on the end of my 16" Bushmaster, but I notice very little improvement in handling or recoil (which wasn't a problem to begin with). If it weren't for the fact that the blasted screws marred the end of my barrel, I'd take the thing off and leave it off.

Still, I like the 16" barrel. They are light, handy and fast. It is what I use most of the time myself.

That's what I'm searching for with respect to the carbine...light weight and quick handling. As it stands now, my ammo of choice for the shorter Bushy will be the Q3131A and the 60 grain V-max Black Hills...and I'll be using the South African 55 grain for blasting practice.

For the 20" Colt, I had thought the SS109 and the Sierra Match 77 grain Black Hills would be the ticket, but the Olympic SS109 is proving to be inconsistant, and, while the Black Hills stuff is great, I'd really like to find something a little more readily available in larger quantities.

I reload all my .45 ACP...perhaps it's time to start working on some .223 of my own. I'm not really sure it's all that practical when it comes to storage or crunch time.

Thanks for the reply,

Pat

[yorec]

Trading out Colt parts with Bushy? Is there a reliability issue, or is that personal preference?

Naw - personal preference only! I have both Colt and Bushmaster guns. They are both top o' the line stuff. Use 'em and love 'em.

The only reason I'd trade out the parts is if money truely was no object. It undoubtably is that at least enought o make that sort of swap not owrth it. Now where's that dang barge of ammo and mags?!

[ATTICUS]

Trijicon A.C.O.G. - From their web page

Features and Benefits:

Models with cross-hair reticles are luminous in the dark, but show black in daylight, for ideal aiming in any light.
BAC models feature reticles illuminated both day and night. A fiber optic collects ambient light during the day, and a tritium lamp lights the pattern at night. The Tritium lamp lasts 20 years. Amber color is used in compact ACOG models because its brighter.
Forged 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy housing, precision machined to exacting tolerances, and hard-anodized to match the upper and lower receiver of the M16 rifle.
Internally adjustable. Because only the prism housing moves, the ACOG is much more rugged than conventional designs.
Aerospace seals make the ACOG waterproof to Navy Seal depths.
The finest optical design, 100% U.S. made, ACOG. . . the ultimate telescopic sight.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I have seen pigtail shaped tubes that were purported to be a solution to the hard cycling action of the carbine. Do these actually work, and would they require fitting underneath the handguard?

I don't have any experience with those, so I can't say. My own carbines have been perfectly reliable so far so I figure there is no point in messing with something that is working fine.

As it stands now, my ammo of choice for the shorter Bushy will be the Q3131A and the 60 grain V-max Black Hills...and I'll be using the South African 55 grain for blasting practice.

If you aren't already aware of it, the link below is a good resource.

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/

As for ACOGs, I've been using one off and on for almost a year now and finally got my own ACOG (TA11). The models with BAC are very slick. It has a different niche than the EOTech although there is some overlap. The EOtech is probably faster close in and more forgiving of sloppy form or odd cheek-weld/eye placement. The ACOG is a kind of red dot/scope hybrid that functions well close in but still offers the advantages of a scope at a distance.

I'm not a big fan of amber reticles in general; but the compacts and the TA31/TA11 series in the full size are great sights (so is the EOtech for that matter).

[drivenrhythm]

Now where's that dang barge of ammo and mags?!
20 round milsurp mags primarily (10) and added green followers (don't try this at home)....tho I did pick up some 30 rnd Orlites and a couple of John Masens 5/10 rounders. Got the Colt and Bushy post ban factory mags too, but I think I'll use them for receiver blocks.

Still in negotiations for the barge, sarge.

Now...about that .300 whisper.....???!!!!

(I LIKE the danged AR habit!):D

Thanks for the input guys!

Pat