Changing the 'fingerprint'

[priv8ter]

One of the news stations out here in Seattle went out and about asking what people thought about maintaining records of the ballistic fingerprints for a firearm.

One of their stops was at one of the local gunranges, where the shop owner gave the standard speach about how maintaining records will never PREVENT a crime from happening, and the only people it would effect are law abiding citizens.

Then, in 20 seconds, he demonstrated how changing the upper on an AR-15 would totally change the ballistic fingerprint, which left the reporter kind of speachless.

A picture is worth a thousand words, I guess.

[DMK]

the only people it would effect are criminals

I believe you meant "the only people it would affect would be honest citizens".

I wish the big media panderers could see the foolishness of this stuff. But since they only associate themselves with "yes men", it will never happen.

[Art Eatman]

Long before they put computers in cars, most folks hadn't a clue about what went on under the hood. Why do we ever expect a city-person office-worker--which is what most newsies are--to understand how any firearm works, or how it's made, or how to modify it to suit a particular need? After all, these folks aren't interested in knowing anything about something as important as their daily transportation, much less something as foreign to them as a firearm...

Art

[priv8ter]

Thank you, DMK. My original post has been modified to say what I meant.

[DMK]

Why do we ever expect a city-person office-worker... Hey, I resemble that remark! Well, maybe city-person office-worker gearhead, now country-person office-worker gearhead.

[Southern Raider]

A few swipes of a file or the swapping of a few key parts with replacements will change the "fingerprint" of any firearm. Furthermore, so will normal wear from use.

[Tropical Z]

Changing the fingerprint should be every Americans first patriotic duty if it ever comes to that! For those liberals and ATF:barf: spies who may be reading this thread,it can be done in about 10 SECONDS!!!!!!!:p The ATF knows this,but Gore lovers may not.

[boing]

The fingerprint law would have to include provisions requiring firing pins, extractors, barrels, etc. to be serialized, with a background check and FFL required for transfer, just like frames and receivers.

Then of course there's Flitz, sand paper, etc...

[ReadyOnTheRight]

We all better buy our "Assault Dremel Tools" now...before the ban goes into effect.

[krept]

Whoa. I'm shocked. I've been amused with the fingerprint argument with the understanding that it would be easy to replace some small parts to change the it until I realized what boing said... The fingerprint law would have to include provisions requiring firing pins, extractors, barrels, etc. to be serialized, with a background check and FFL required for transfer, just like frames and receivers.

They could look at the original print of the serialized piece verus that of it in its present condition and if it looks like you buffed it too much with Flitz or rouge and a dremel, you could be popped for defacing. Hey who knows, if we let too many laws pass, where would it end?

[JohnKSa]

What really bites is that for the system to work, your name as a gun owner has to be on some government list matched to the firearm fingerprints that belong to the guns you own.

[Southern Raider]

What really bites is that for the system to work, your name as a gun owner has to be on some government list matched to the firearm fingerprints that belong to the guns you own.
Alas, I fear that this is really what they want: A national firearms registration database, which is currently disallowed by Federal law (at least a computerized version is). They have that in a manner of speaking already. If they can match the crime to a firearm serial number, they can back track it through the 4473 forms starting at the manufacturer. States where private party sales are allowed break the chain, so look for pressure to close those "loopholes".

[sleeping dog]

Hey Art, I read your statement "Long before they put computers in cars, most folks hadn't a clue about what went on under the hood. "

That is 180 degrees bass-ackwards.

I understood what went on under the hood UNTIL they put computers in there. :)

Now, wait'll they put safety computers in the pistol grips. I'll be even dumber.

Regards.

[Tamara]

Long before they put computers in cars, most folks hadn't a clue about what went on under the hood.

Suck, squeeze, bang, puff. What's so complicated about that? :confused: ;)

[Art Eatman]

From what I've seen, most folks just stick the key in the ignition, twist it, and hope something good happens. I've tried to talk about cams and balancing and porting and carb jets with "just folks" and gave up. Blank Look City. Don't ever say "Desmodromic valves"...

Same with a lot of folks and guns. Many think the bullet travels absolutely straight from muzzle to a mile out. Hey, remember the Congressional blather about the .50BMG as a sniper rifle? Use words like "trajectory" and "windage" and "mil-dot" to a newsie, and once again it's Blank Look City.

What's elementary school to us is post-doctoral research in astro-physics to way too many folks.

:), Art

[priv8ter]

Southern Raider, I agree.

My biggest problem with the 'fingerprint record bank' is it is really gun registration under a different name.

Not only will they want to register the gun to the owner, but like Boing said, it would grow to include firing pins, extractors, barrels, etc. Plus, I live in Washington, and what would that do to the ease of private gun sales?

Bad, very bad.

[ballistic gelatin]

I know a young hunter who had the misconception that a hollow point bullet began expanding as soon as it left the barrel. This was two weeks ago...October 2002.

[uglygun]

Don't forget "spinning buzzsaws of death", even gunfolk want to believe that blatherscat the media pushed on us back during the BlackTalon hayday.

[quantico]

Those extractors and firing pins can be changed in minutes... the finger print of my gun would soon be an extinct history of a gun no longer throwing brass.

[dZ]

IMHO,
once they "discover" that the "normal" wear and tear of using firearms
"alters" the "fingerprint"
they will require a technological fix for the "problem"

an inscribed barcode in the bore & chamber seems like something Chuck Schumer would approve.

[dfaugh]

In the case of a handgun for example, just "mangle" the bullet a bit with some visegrips...lousy accuracy, but at 10 ft. so what? Just goes to show these laws are useless, as they can be circumvented any number of ways, by someone that's determined to "beat the system" (i.e. criminals)

[Nukem]

Hmmm, methinks my reply vanished ;)

[Mannlicher]

change out the bolt, extractor, firing pin, and springs, and you have a totally different 'fingerprint'.

God, I hope those morons up in Washington don't figure that one out. Some one like Rangle would put up a bill that would ban any gun that could be changed. wowee

[TallPine]

Ultimate sniper weapon: 50 caliber Hawken

Patched round ball -----> no barrel marks

Muzzleloader -----> no "shell casing" marks


:p

[Frohickey]

You could even use the discarding sabot.

Those are made for the 50cal (shoots 30 caliber) and 30 caliber (shoots 224 caliber).

The best we can do is educate the non-shooting public about the fallacies of the various measures these anti-gun politicians want to impose. These are all feel-good measures, but a demonstration of how easy it is to circumvent speaks volumes.

That, and take more first time shooters out to the range, and bring them over to the good side. :D :D

[bruels]

You could even use the discarding sabot.

For that to work you would need a sabot that is consumed completely after leaving the barrel. A sabot that is flammable and saturated with an oxidyzer that does the job after it leaves the barrel.

Bruce

[rcbs]

I think some of the anti-gunners really think the ballistic finger print will work and the ones that have some experience with firearms know very well that it will not work but want it anyway. Why??????

Because it will add to the cost of the average firearm and the whole idea of restrictions is to eventually make it so expensive and complicated the average person will neither be able to afford a firearm or want to go through the hassle of jumping through 3 or 4 years of paperwork to get one.

This is nothing new its been very successful in many other countries. Basically the criminal element is armed to the teeth and preys on people both at night and in broad daylight and the other group that preys on people is their government.

The government does not fear criminals. Bureaucrats have armed body guards and work in armed fortresses. Governments in the past have reduced crime to extremely low levels. How did they do it? By convincing the people to give up all of there freedoms and rights. Temporary security is offered to them for complete lack of all personl freedom. It is nothing new. It is old history and current history.

The one thing the government wants is complete control of you that way they have absolute power over you and they can keep their jobs for life.

Most people in the affected area that the sniper is operating in especially non- gun owners are at this moment ready to give up all personal freedom and rights to the government if it will make them feel safe once again.

Only a generation ago the people would not have waited for the bureaucrats to save them. They would have organized themselves. You would have seen armed people on every street corner and the sight of armed men would have been a welcome one. Sooner or later the crazy man would be compelled to strike again only this time the odds would not be so heavily in his favor. His luck would run out and the citizens would get rid of him instantly.

Today this is not possible. Everyone is taught to hate guns and fear them. Everyone is taught to let the government protect them and do their thinking for them. No one wants to get involved and many probably who saw the sniper probably never even got on their cell phones to give any info to the the authorities. None of them tried to chase down the sniper or even follow him.

The mess we are in today lies more within ourselves for it is we who do not care what happens as long as it happens to the other guy.

Shotgunners say let them take the pistols I do not own one. Muzzle loaders say, let them take the shotguns I do not own one. Hunters say let them take the semi-automatic rifles I do not hunt with one. And so it goes. Divide and conquer until there is nothing left to take. Play one group off against another. Looking out for number one is the way of today.

Todays news media frenzy is an anti-gunners nirvana. The future of gun ownership is looking very bleak at the moment.

Remember if they really do succeed in abolishing rifle ownership do you think your pistol is going to last one second longer?


What can you do about all this. Get out and vote this fall because right now the ant-gunners are unashameably dancing in the blood of the snipers victims. If you want to turn the tide against the news media and the anti-gun politicians I say again you better get out and vote and if you do not know who to vote for call your local pro-gun organization or the NRA immediately.

[ThePatriot29]

I understand that changing bolt, extractor, and firing pin will completely change fingerprint. But where do springs come into it?

[P. Mall]

"Ballistic fingerprinting" is just a techno name for gun registration. Just what the prohibition lobbies want.