The most troublesome and trouble free glock

[meat]

In your experience, what is the most trouble free glock? For me it seems to be the model 17. It works every time. When I look at posts regarding problems other glocks have had (e.g. G19 Phase 3 malf., the .40 s&w models kaboom problems, the .45 acp models w/ cracked frames and firing out of battery problems, etc.), it seems that the original model 17 has the least amount of reported issues. I'm not out to start a flame war, I'm just curious to hear what has been good and bad about the glock models that you own. It's curios to me because the more I read about threads regarding glocks and 1911's, it appears that the ones that have more problems are the ones that are variations or compact models that alter the original design. This isn't saying that the originals never experience problems, it's just that they haven't been as common in posts.

[taco]

I have owned 3 G17 (1st, 2nd and 3rd generations) a G19 and G26 and all 3 G17 and G26 worked perfectly. The G19 did have few failure to eject problems (no other failures) but only 3 or 4 times out of thousands of rounds fired. It could have been just that particular pistol. Overall, Glocks are damn reliable pistols. Too bad I don't like them.

[Tecolote]

If you mean personal experience I've never had a problem with a Glock that wasn't ammo related. On about three occasions with a G19 and a G23 I had failures to eject and one failure to ignite a round. The failures to eject were due to underpowered Winchester 115 and the failure to ignite was with cheapie Blazer ammo. :p

[eap]

the problems you mention qualify for "unsolved mysteries", most likely urban myth.

the phase III ONLY happens to ny police, enough said.

the .40 kaboom, internet lore.

never heard of the .45 frame problem.

if something happens just send it to glock, but most can be fixed by yourself or an armorer at a gssf match. i've never seen any of these problems or known anybody who had them besides the bs you see on the net. all my glocks have functioned flawlessly for me and everybody else i know.

[meat]

Yes Tecolote , I would like to hear about personal experiences from owners or "events" that have been witnessed. thanks.

[juliet charley]

the phase III ONLY happens to ny police, enough said.
Actually, there have been Phase III type failures other than the NYPD. They are just more obvious there because of the large numbers of G19s in service and detailed tracking/documentation.
the .40 kaboom, internet lore.
Not really. Maybe not as common as one would believe based on the internet but definitely happens and has been documented.
never heard of the .45 frame problem.
This was pretty well hashed out over on Glock Talk (with no denials). Seems like it was a rather minor problem when Glock had a small run of bad frames that resulted in minor cracks around the serial number plate. It involved G29s as well (same frames) and did not cause any functioning problems.

The G19 has had some other fairly well documented problems early in its life including a tendency to slam fire (and even go full auto). It also "disintegrated during the DEA's "frisbee testing"--throwing/sliding it across a parking lot (not a totally unreasonable test for a proposed law enforcement weapon). These problems have been pretty well addressed by Glock's "voluntary upgrade," but there might still be a few "original issue" weapons out there.

If I had to pick a "must absolutely work every time" Glock, the G17 is a no-brainer.

FWIW, I have had two Glocks (out of several) that can only be described as lemons. One a G23 that was just plain inaccurate--nobody what ammunition, whether from a rest or not, it just plain would not shoot a group--it though bullets all over the place. The second was an early G31--it could not get through a magazine without numerous failures to eject--I tried four different mags and different ammo,and it just wouldn't work--my guess was it had the wrong extractor (a relatively easy fix, but it shouldn't have happened).

[www.glock19.com]

from selling appox 200 glocks a year for the past 5 years
and being a glock armorer
i would say the most reliable is the 17
The least the 20.
the 9mm/40/357sig seem to be more reliable than the 45/10mm
On the frame problem the only serious glock problem i have ever seen that i could not fix by changeing out parts was a g30 that the frame split down the dust cover by the serial number plate.glock replaced the whole pistol

[meat]

Thanks for the reply juliet charley and www.glock19.com. Your responses coincide w/ some of the research I have done at glocktalk. I'm just trying to see what's internet hype and what's not. I'm really wanting that G17 more and more now.

[Blue Duck357]

Love the 17 but would note the earlier models with the older extractors tend to have a bad habit of throwing brass where it does not need to go (i.e. shooters face).

Some will argue it's limpwristing or bad ammo and it may sometimes be but funny how wrist suddenly get stronger and ammo better with the upgraded extractor or a little filing on the ejector ;)

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

My personal experience is limited to a 27 and a 30.

The 27 has about 1k rounds through it. Seems to be fine - no probs.

The 30 is new. Many light primer strikes. Has some issues with some hollow points. Bottom line - I am not sold on the 30. May dump it soon.

[JohnKSa]

quote:
-------------------------------------
the .40 kaboom, internet lore.
-------------------------------------

Not really. Maybe not as common as one would believe based on the internet but definitely happens and has been documented.

Have to agree. I don't think the .40 kB! is a myth. It does happen--and not just to Glocks either!
If I had to pick a "must absolutely work every time" Glock, the G17 is a no-brainer.
Have to agree again--the first is still the best...
I would say the most reliable is the 17
The least the 20.
That statement in combination with the fact that the 20 is often praised as the most durable 10mm on the market gives one a good frame of reference for gauging the other Glock pistols.

Good shooting,

John

[beastman]

I just put another 250 rounds through my 17 tonight. The only issue that I have seen is if the shooter limp wrists. I haven't had it happen to me, but one of my wife's friends had it happen twice.

The best shooting Glock I have tried is the G35. What a sweet gun (put 250 rounds through it tonight and WOW does it shoot well!)



I don't know how many "torture tests" have been done to other Glocks, but from what I have heard, it is hard to break a G17

[Ala Dan]

Another vote for the early production, 1st series G-17!:D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[IanS]

Although I depend on a G23 (juliet charley's favorite ;)) for protection I recommend the G17 if it'll allay any concerns you may have. Its better to move on and concentrate on shooting instead of vacillating about something that may or may not happen to YOU. And save these kind of debates for fun and when you have time to kill.

The only times I've heard people express concern about Glock kB! or Glocks being more prone to failure HAS BEEN ON THE INTERNET. The past ten years of shooting I have never heard from anyone about any serious concerns surrounding Glocks and every time I bring the subject up at the range or elsewhere I just get blank looks. I am not refuting juliet charley or the documented cases surrounding Glocks. They probably did occur. Its a big world. And there has been lots of misleading, inaccurate, and colored remarks (good and bad) surrounding Glocks more than almost any other pistol IMO. With Glocks its always a passionate debate it seems. But in my personal experience (outside of the anonimity of cyberspace) the worst comments I've heard about Glocks were the fact they were plastic or that they simply didn't like them. I've been shooting Glocks of various calibers off and on for the past 10 years and I'm letting my own experiences be the guide.

So get that Glock 17 and happy shooting.

[JIH]

What is a Phase III? I've heard ths mentioned but never explained.

[denfoote]

The only problem I ever had with a Glock was with my G26: my wife snuffled it!! :D

[Jack19]

I've never had "trouble" with any Glock. For me, they've all been trouble free. Some haven't been my cup of tea (like the 40s) but they've all been reliable.

[meat]

go here for an explanation of he phase 3 malfunctions: http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/glock/gz-phase3.html

[JIH]

Thanks meat

[john kilgore]

The Glock .40 S&W Ka-Boom is not just internet lore.

One of our G-22's departed this world along with a piece of one of our officers thumbs in 1998. The ser.# was 02XX-DNR.
Several things happened to cause this kb.
1. Due to firearm design, the pistol fired out of battery
2. The unsupported case head allowed the catastrophic release of gasses that resulted in kb.
3. Hot loaded remanufactured with out of spec. case diminsions initiated chain of sequence resulting in kb.

Ammo was 180 fmj loaded by MasterCartridge of Villa Rica, Ga. The nominal spec on the ammo was 1050 fps, a bit hotter than normal spec, but the CEO of Master assured me that the pressures are within SAAMI pressure limits.

The Cartridge loader blamed the Glocks design, and construction; Glock blamed the Cartridge Co.
They were both Right !!!

The case head (Starline) was previously fired in a Glock and the casehead was weakened in the area of the feed ramp.
Since, we now only use new factory ammo for qualification as most agencies who shoot Glocks do.
That explains why you can't give away .40 S&W brass. Last time I checked, it was going for $20.00 a thousand which is about what it cost to ship.

[CZ_]

I've had the MOST problems with a Glock 17. I finally sold this pistol, as it was unreliable.

My Glock 21 has given me the least problems.

[Blue Duck357]

The case head (Starline) was previously fired in a Glock and the casehead was weakened in the area of the feed ramp. -john kilgore

Think thats a big point John, Glock keeps telling people (and Departments) DON"T USE RELOADS. People not only use them but as you mention "a bit hotter than normal spec" reloads and wonder why there is a problem :rolleyes:

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

A few points of clarifaction are in order regarding reloading in general:

A. Virtually all manufacturers (with the exception of some high end 1911 manufacturers) "advise" the purchaser to not shoot reloaded ammo through their product. This is done for both wannanty purposes and liability reasons.

B. Reloading componets (new) - particularly Starline brass - are of a higher quality than cheap factory ammo.

C. Most reloaders are extremely careful.

D. Most competitive shooters are loading to a minimal pressure - they are merely trying to clear the bar if you will for the power factor of their given class.


This whole argument about reloads cause KBs is for the most part a BS argument that is sympathetic toward the manufacturer.

[Blue Duck357]

I don't think I'm being sympathetic Mo_Zam_Beek and I am a reloader and not a Glock apologist. Just pointing out if a ladder manufacturer tells you "This ladder designed to hold no more than 250#" and cases started showing up about 450# people breaking those ladders, I don't think Dean Speir would start a "ladder conpiracy theory" web page ;)

I have no doubt there has been a KB'd Glock with factory ammo just like I'm sure there have been KB'd Colts and S/W's. Just that from what I'm reading like 98% of it is caused by that guy with the 450# fanny who can't read directions on his ladder.

Glock has less case support which helps it feed reliably. 40 Glocks have been tested by numerous large agencies, none of which I'm aware of have dropped the Glock for any case support safety reason. Maybe they should print a warning on the slide that says: "DO NOT USE RELOADED AMMO- REALLY WERE NOT KIDDING GUYS DON'T DO IT!!-SERIOUSLY!!! WE MEAN IT DON'T DO IT!!! LISTEN WE KNOW YOU GOT A WARNING WITH YOUR OTHER GUNS AND HAVEN'T BLOWN YOURSELF UP BUT REALLY TRULY DON'T DO IT!!!" Second thought maybe thats a bit much for a G-26 Slide ;)

PS, I'm sure "new" starline cases are fine for loading handloads for the .40. But those are "Handloads" not "Re-loads". Shoot them in a Glock once and that usupported area of that case is never going to as strong as it originally was. That area happens to line up with the unsupported area on it's next loading and maybe the moon is just right....Should have read the directions that came with the gun....

[beastman]

From what I have seen of .40 brass that has been fired through a Glock, I think that it is imperative to not use that brass again, even more so than brass that has been used in other firearms. Am I wrong?

[juliet charley]

The "Instructions for Use for Use" that come with each Glock handgun sold states, "Only use high quality commercially manufactured ammunition, in excellent condition and in the calibre of use pistol." While I am not familiar with the quality of MasterCartridge, I would suggest ammunition by commercial reloaders like Georgia Arms should by all rights qualify as "high quality commercially manufactured ammunition, in excellent condition."

When talking about reloaded ammunition in the "Instructions for Use for Use," they appear to be talking about some guy sitting at home with Dillon Square Deal B turning out reloads than a commerical manufacturer who uses once-fired brass. (They talk about the "upredictability of standards adhered to" and not meeting "SAAMI specifications" and "exceed safe limits.) There is not a single mention of any danger of brass failure, and Georgia Arms and others definitely meet the definition of "commercially manufacturerd," and they adhere to acceptable "standards." Somehow, I think Glock would have a hard time proving in any legal sense than commercially reloaded ammunition by any major manuracturer resulted in a kB!.

As an aside, Georgia Arms reloaded .40 S&W sells for $150 per thousand. Their new $270 per thousand. I would think just about any department could easily justify a switch to an equal or high quality weapon just on cost savings alone. Why would anybody (particularly a private individual) want to buy a weapon that costs roughly twice as much to shoot as a weapon of equal or greater quality?

[Blue Duck357]

JC, in terms of companies using once fired brass I'd personally consider it to be "Commercially Re-manufactured ammunition" not "Commercially manufactured" ammo. And I'd hardly consider using a "damaged" case that was fired in a gun with that much of an unsupported chamber to be less than "excellent quality".

Least thats the way I interputed the passage. Sounds like a guy with less thumbs than myself interputed it differently ;)

Never heard any LE agency really worry about the price of practice ammo that much. 1000 rounds will qualify and keep qualified 4 officers for 1-2 years in most departments. Everyone I've been around has a "You want more, you buy your it" rule. Course they get Talons cheaper than most people get blazer...

[JohnKSa]

jc,

"Only use high quality commercially manufactured ammunition, in excellent condition and in the calibre of use pistol."

That's correct, but you ended your quote too soon. The VERY NEXT sentence is: "The use of reloaded ammunition will void the warranty..."

Later in the manual you will also find the statement: "Glock will not honor claims involving this firearm which result from...the use of ammunition other than ORIGINAL high quality commercially manufactured ammuition..."

Your comment about the guy using the Square Deal B machine seems to be referring to the statement in the manual regarding "inexpertly manufactured or inexpertly filled ammunition."

It seems to me that they've covered all the bases and then some.

High Quality
Excellent Condition
Commercially Manufactured
Original
Not Inexpertly Manufactured
Not Inexpertly Filled
Not Reloaded
Proper Caliber

Where did you get the manual you're quoting from? I believe you've said that you don't own a Glock... Come to think of it, why would you even care about this thread since you've said on more than one occasion that you NEVER intend to own a Glock?

[juliet charley]

Somehow, I doubt Glock would really make a warranty or liability issue out of the use of high quality commercially manufactured using once-fired brass in the original calibre. I do think it is a topic that merits discussion. (If for nothing else beccause the potential cost savings--depending on calibre, a Glock can double your ammunition costs.)

I know many manufacturers other than Glock include a "generic" type warnings against the use of [home] reloaded ammunition, but it does not become the issue it becomes in Glocks. Why is that? I can run Georgia Arms ammunition through a Sig, Colt, S&W. etc., and it is not an issue. If I put the same high quality commercially manufactured using once-fired brass in the original calibre ammunition in a Glock, it becomes a safety issue. Why?

John, as I have explained to you before, I have had numerous Glock handguns in the past, and I shot them extensively. Due to changed circumstances, I have had to pare down the number of handguns I own extensively--it was an easy or fun decision. I did not keep any of my Glocks, but my G30 was one of the last handguns with which I parted. At this time, I do not intend to purchase a Glock (or any other handgun), but that does not mean I will never purchase another Glock--I tend to lack resolve when it comes to handguns.

First, the particular issue which we are discussing--the use of high-quality, commercially manufactured ammunition using quality once-fired brass--is one of the issues I will consider if I look at a Glock in the future. The fact my ammunition will [B]more than double the cost of my ammunition[/U] if I buy a Glock (depending on the calibre) is factor in my decision (and should be a factor in anybody's decision who plans to shoot very much).

Second, is it the policy of TFL, the administrator, or any moderator that if you do not own a particular at the present time you cannot post on thread concerning that weapon (and the current thread is not even about a particular weapon but a maker)? I don't think it is. I've seen nothing in forum policies addressing, and I know that both Tamara and Mal H (our moderators) have read and participated in many of the same threads in which you and I have, and they have never mentioned I should not post in Glock-related thread because I do not currently own a Glock. John, you may not agree with what I say, but that doesn't give you the right to censor me or otherwise try to silence me, does it? Has someone appointed you "Glock Gestapo" and sent out into cyberspace to squash think and free speech? Are you driven quell dissent? ;)

[Kentucky Rifle]

I've had a Glock 27 which I purchased NIB in 1998. In all this time, it hasn't had a single malfunction. I've tried a "few" different brands and weights of .40 cal, but I saw a Jefferson County LEO in a bank one day and noticed what he carried. It was a Glock 22. I struck up a conversation and, being the friendly sort, he told me that he had tried a lot of different types of ammo also. He had settled on the Federal, 135gr "PD" Hydra-Shok. His exact words were, "I can hit better with those". I purchased a case of 135gr, PD Hydra-Shoks and have never looked back. (I can "hit" better with them too.) Although I don't reload, I've picked up several empty cases and examined them carefully. Especially where the "web" is. I can't detect any bulging there or anywhere else. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm just saying I've never seen it on the Federal .40 PD's I shoot. On the other hand, I have picked up some empty .40 caliber *aluminum cases, and they had "the bulge". I also picked up some aluminum .357 Sig cases and they also had a bulge in them. I have no idea what these aluminum cases were fired from.
So, based on my own experience, I'd have to say the G27 is pretty much trouble free.

KR