Need Advice! Just convince wife to get a gun and permit

[Scotty45]

Hi all.

Here is my story. I am an avid shooter with experience and preference to the likes of 1911s, Glocks, Sigs, HKs, Berettas, and Rugers. I have this thing about quality, and, to the degree that I can afford it, I want it. My wife is experienced somewhat with rifles(her dad is a big-time hunter) but has always been biased against handguns due to the unfortunate stories you hear about what happens when you don't treat them with the respect they demand. She is stubborn gal and has always chosen to not educate herself on her biases here.

Anyway, she has recently become disabled due to several back and hip problems, severe asthma, fibromyalgia, and some other issues. All together, they make her life hell. She has decided that she is unable to protect or defend herself and is up for the idea of arming herself and obtaining a concealed permit (we live in Utah).

Here is my concern: She will only spend "up to $250 or $300" for a handgun, and I do not believe I have seen any pistols that I believe to be worthwhile(based on my opinions and experience). Plus, this would need to be a very small pistol, 9mm or less, and many of those are "Saturday Night Specials" . I want to direct her to something that is reliable and safe. Are Kahrs, Kel-Tecs, etc. going to be reliable or in that price range? I know that a used Glock around here is around $400, and for $300 or less, we can kiss off the likes of Sig and HK.

What advice might any of be able to offer? I appreciate any input I can get.

Thanks,

Scott

:D

[Hemicuda]

$300.00 will getcha a sweet used Smith revolver... concealable, accurate, and if you look, even in .357 Mag...

[eagles1181]

In a very similar situation with my Mom (deciding factor was a break in at work, not disability but still). I have done a lot of research on Kel-tec and have seen very little bad on them. Only complaint I have seen is that they have a long trigger pull (probably not a problem in a life or death situation). The P11 (9mm) is very light (14 oz unloaded) and smaller then anything else I have found that will hold a full 10 rounds. On top of that around here (Houston, TX) they go for $250 new, (very hard to find used) so they are well within your price range. Don't have any personal experience, I am just building off what the masses of owners have said. Hope this helps.

Eagle

[Shake]

Scotty45 ,

Welcome to TFL.com. Good to see other Utahns on the board.

I would recommend a Kahr K9. You may have to look for a used one or convince your wife to let you spend another $100 for on. I would feel pretty comfortable knowing my wife was armed with a Kahr.

Good luck. . .

Shake

[70-101]

Get Her A Bursa Thunder in .380 http://www.bersa-llama.com

[Dave Mo]

How 'bout a Beretta Tomcat? That would be in that range. Small, easy to CCW.

Otherwise, a revolver. If she has no/limited experience with a handgun, it would take less time and easier for her to learn with a revolver.

[yzguy]

you must also consider 2 more things in your criteria for picking a gun. First is will she practice with it? I own a P-11 and P-32. The P-11 has quite a bit of kick for a 9. My girl does not like to shoot it (only shot it when I made her), but she likes shooting the P-32. Second, will she carry it (preferably not in a purse)? if it is too heavy/big/inconvenient, she probably will not. No matter what you get, make sure you have her put a couple hundred rounds through it without failure before she carries it...

and here is some more info on KT's:
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/newownerinfo.htm

[SoDFW Jason]

I have heard only good things about the Bersa Thunder .380 and the Kel Tec 9mm. On the other hand, I have heard lots of negative feedback on the Kahrs(not saying it's a bad gun, just using it for a comparison). I got my wife "hooked" with a cheapie Llama .45 and now we both sport Glocks. I never would have convinced her to let me buy Glocks if she hadn't been involved in shooting.

[pogo2]

How about a small S&W J frame used revolver. Here's one on auction arms available for $299:
S&W .38 stainless snubby (http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=3268551)
http://www.retting.com/aa/sw602u020.jpg

[archer215]

maybe you could go to a gun show and find something ive come into alot of good deals there theres one this weekend in knoxville ill be going too:D

[Scotty45]

Great input so far. I appreciate the advice. I am not a revolver fan, and am hesitant to put her in that direction. She is likely going to be the most comfortable carrying a semi with a loaded mag, but not a chambered round. I understand this is a tradeoff for speed in an incident, but with practice, this is the most appealing idea to her right now. Now that I think about this, I don't think I would let her get a semi that has a manual safety lever. Carrying condition one(I believe that is "one") is extremely safe, and her having to only worry about racking the slide is best. A manual safety and this form of carry is probably not the best idea for beginners.

A Glock or DAO will be simple enough for her. Although a DA pistol will go into SA mode by cocking the hammer if you are racking it right then. Too bad Sigs are too expensive! :(

[Rickmeister]

Scotty45:

Kahrs are arguably the best concealeable guns on the market today. But they're also a tad expensive.

If money is an object, consider the Bersa Thunder 380. This little gun offers decent quality at an affordable price. Besides, your wife can carry it with a round in the pipe and the safety on (I for myself would advise against carrying it with an empty chamber, as you can't risk having an FTF in a time of crisis. With one in the chamber, you know that you're going to get at least one round off, which could ultimately spell the difference between life-and-death.).

If, on the other hand, she feels comfortable with DAO and one in the pipe, and you don't mind paying a few extra hundered dollars, then get her the Kahr---and a good DeSantis or Alessi holster to go along with it. She'll never regret your choice.

My two cents.

[Brian Williams]

I would recommend that you seriously take another look at a revolver if she does not want to carry one in the pipe. I just got a S&W 13 for $300 and I think it is the best thing to carry.

[Zundfolge]

She is likely going to be the most comfortable carrying a semi with a loaded mag, but not a chambered round.

Biggest problems my wife has with handguns is racking the slide ... this problem tends to be worse with smaller autos like my MK-40 ... and she can't rack the slide of my Makarov at all (however it has a 21# recoil spring in it ... I have trouble racking it :p ).

Convince her to carry with one in the pipe ... its perfectly safe ... that way if necessary you can load up her piece for her (at least until she gets used to doing it herself. She should learn in case she has to clear a jam).


I'd second the Kahr (just inspect it carefuly before leaving the gun shop or seller's house).

Or you might look at the Baby Eagle ...they are inexpensive (the are a bunch of polymer ones on gunbroker for $329 here's one http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=5487494 ), well made and have a decocker so she might not have a problem with +1 carry.

[dairycreek]

to the price limit with a CZ83. That's a .380 and the ones I have used have been solid, reliable, and surprisingly accurate. CZ's are made of steel and tend to be somewhat heavy. Don't know how the weight of the pistol would work with her medical condition. On the other hand the weight makes them a really sweet shooter. FWIW! http://cz-usa.com/ Good shooting:)

[WYO]

You can't make somebody do something they aren't inclined to do, whether it's spouse, child, parent or self. Sometimes they (or self) have to learn it for themselves. Let her make her own choice, then let her shoot it. If it doesn't work, she'll come to her own conclusion.

[KSFreeman]

Why not a used revolver. Hand strength (used in racking slides if you carry C3) is a big issue for females.

A couple of years ago I bought a Ruger Service Six for $200.00 at a gun show in Indy. I gave it to my father who gave it to my mother.

[Nanaimo Barr]

FEG SMC-380. with speer gold dots. a quasi PPK/s clone for less than $200 NIB,
just have a smith "clean it" up first, it does need to have the action smoothed out, otherwise relable and accurate. 6+1 is how I carry mine. (and being PPK looking, the "James Bond" (tm) angle might just help)

[Lennyjoe]

Another vote here for the Bersa Thunder .380. Nice little gun, lightweight, easy to conceal, autoloader, can be carried with one in the pipe and not a bad little defense round with the proper ammo.

[Philtex]

My wife has two Glocks, 19 & 26, plus a Taurus 85. She carries one of my Bersa Thunder 380s.

[Dave AA]

Revolver. Point and squeeze. Best tool for the situation.

[monkeywithfire]

I can't believe you want her to have an auto at all. Get her a revolver. She can easly load and unload it with virtually no training. She can fire it with almost no training. She can maintain it with almost no training. There is just alot more to learn and remember when dealing with autos compared to revolvers. Basically you can load a revlover hand it to her and say " ONLY Point the barrel toward ENEMY and squeeze trigger repeatedly".

I have been shooting for some time and have yet to JAM a revolver.

If she is nervous about carrying one in the pipe what is she gonna do when she when she has a FTE or FTF or a hard primer(glocks and Kahrs require a slide cycle to reset trigger). These things are much less of an issue in a revlover. Lots of people don't rack slides properly and I imagine it gets worse under stress. It sounds to me Like you want her to have X because that is what you like. What about what is best for her?

Good Luck! -monkey

[Neal in GA]

Another vote for the simplicity, reliability, and good value of a used revolver, especially with someone who doesn't want to practice and is on a tight budget.

[Scotty45]

I am not a revolver fan, but I always felt they were the best choice for non-buffs. Maybe my bias is that they are TOO easy. Nuff said there, because that is what I want for my wife. Not for me, but definitely for her.

Okay, I have never liked many revolvers personally, except for a .45 Long Colt Ruger Vaquero that I put a few boxes through one day (LOVED IT!). I am of the opinion that the Rugers are best, although a SA Vaquero would not be an appropriate choice for my wife, and I love the feel and quality of Rugers, not to mention the prices. I guess I am asking for any further recommenations for revolvers now, from those who know best. I guess I should take a trip over to the revolver forums here, too.

One thing-- I have never liked the feel of any Smith I have ever picked up. I have only fired one Smith revolver (little snub .38) and didn't care much for the trigger action. Are they worth a look, or I am good to stay with Rugers?



P.S. By the way, I am grateful for the ideas of the semiautos already recommended here(didn't know there was a baby-Baby Eagle--I want one for myself!) and appreciate what I have learned. Thanks!

[Nanaimo Barr]

I'm a ruger fan (most of mine are rugers) but there does seem to have been some slippage in there QC of late based on a numer of reports, however, they are a good choice, solid, relable, dependable, take her with you and let her handle them, if it doesn't feel good in her hand she's not going to want to practice with it. my wife is looking for a CCW revolver and has found a number of them that feel too small in her hand.

Tarus are also a option for the budget minded.

if she has strenth issues, have the trigger lightened up by a competant smith.

(anyone know a smith who has experience in modifications for physical disabilities?)

[Onslaught]

I am very sorry to hear that your wife is having so many health problems.

I can't imagine her being consistently able to chamber a round in a semi-auto... so I (gasp) also recommend a revolver.

Brand new Taurus revolvers are available in your price range. .38+p's are a tad better than .380, and if she can do a full .357magnum, well there ya go!

My mother is very stricken with arthritis, not like those people on the commercials who rub their hands and grimace because they can't finish their gardening, I mean crooked and deformed hands, wrists, can't walk without a walker, one arm's in a sling right now so she can't even do that, BAD :(

I chose a .38 revolver for her a few years ago, when her arthritis problems were just starting to require a cane to walk. Unfortunately, she can't pull the trigger DA anymore, and I'm not even sure that she could point the pistol at all. But my father never leaves her alone anymore, and he's got the "Home Defense" thing covered. Where do you think I got the bug from in the first place :D

[Shake]

monkeywithfire
I have been shooting for some time and have yet to JAM a revolver.

Keep shooting. . . it will happen. . .

:p

Shake

[JMax]

Kel-Tec P11

JMax

[monkeywithfire]

I was attracted to some of the really lightweight titanium .38 snubbies by S&W and Taurus.

Some kids were picking them up and pulling the triggers like they were cap guns. I freaked out that they were let loose and had obviously no firearms training. Afterwards... when I picked up the guns they FELT like cap guns. I mean totally sweet cap guns with remarkably smooth double action trigger pulls. I'm not sure about your price range but if you can't get/don't want one of the above try a ruger sp101 with .38's.

I personally love S&W's and these little "cap gun's" made me reconsider snubbies altogether. SWEEEET little carry guns!


Shake... I know it could happen but I'm gonna keep shooting and hope it doesn't. If I always shoot good ammo in quality guns that are well maintained I would be willing to bet the chances of it happening are slim to none. Far slimmer chances than with the best autos and I have stone cold realiable auto's.

-monkey

[TyBryner]

For the money it's hard to beat a P-11.. $225 at a gun show in SLC, and zero problems with it so far... (3 or 4 hundred rounds)

Also after you get used to the long trigger pull, it's actually kinda nice, since I don't worry about having one in the pipe, and is safe even without an external safety. It would be incredibly difficult if not impossible to have this thing go bang without intentionally aiming and pulling the trigger. (try shooting one if you know someone who owns one... You'll see what I'm talking about.)

[Capital Punishment]

I hope your wife gets better. Sirry to hear.:(

I also say go with the revolver. a double action taurus would be excellent, and in your price range too. :cool:

[Scotty45]

...and my wife immediately disliked the revolvers. So I pointed her toward the 32s and 380s and she liked a tiny NAA Guardian, but never picked it up because she liked a couple of the smaller Berettas. I was glad to see that she liked those at least, but I asked her to pull the slide back to see if she could. She could not.

So, since she said that the grip felt small, I pointed to the Bersa and the PPK in there, and she liked the PPK quite a bit. She could not cycle the slide on that either. I was a little dismayed by this and told her she may be stuck with a revolver. Then, the salesperson, mentioned that if she were interested in the PPK at its price, then she should take a glance at this one over here. This happed to be a Glock 26. Now we are talking. He showed the PPK next to the G26, and then pulled out a G19 for comparison also. My wife liked the 19 fairly well, plus, she could pull the slide back. I was liking the trip at this point. I always wanted her to be in a Glock, ideally a 36, but that was too lofty of a goal. She still felt a little weird on the Glocks and wanted to look at the stainless Beretta 92FS in the cabinet. She loved the feel of this also, AND could even pull this slide back as well. The storekeeper recemmended against carrying Condition One and went over all of the safeties on these guns.

Now, I figured I had to do it, since she did favor the larger grips: I said, can we show her a 1911 down there? So, the guy gets us a medium length and gripped Kimber, and my wife liked that instantly. He goes over the safeties with her and has her dryfire it. Then, he shows her how to grip it and tells her to hold it firmly so he can pull the slide back and give her a small taste of what the recoil wil be like. No problems, except, this grip is a little short for her. So, he grabs a Kimber Pro Carry(I believe) with a full sized grip and a Hogue rubbery wraparound grip, and a slightly shorter, Commander-length) barrel. THIS WAS IT. She loved it, and was most interested. Of course, it was nearly $700, and that was not cool with her, but she started thinking about it. I asked her to hold a full sized 5" model, but that was too heavy. Hey, no problems here.

I was pretty excited. We are going to have to go back and rent a 1911 and Glock and maybe one or two others for her to shoot so she can see what they feel like. Her dad tells her she cannot handle a 45, but in my experience, it is slightly easier to handle than a 9mm, which "pops" when you fire it. The "pop" bounces more than a more controlled "boom" of a 45.

Wow, what a day. I will post here again and advise of our shooting experience. I only hope it doesn't turn her off, because an indoor range is very distracting and noisy. It may be a bad experience for her. There is an outdoor range in the Salt Lake area, but I don't think they have rentals. :(

Scott

[monkeywithfire]

If she likes auto's you should have her try a CZ "anything"(except cz52).

They have a fairly tame recoil in all calibers and models. They are in your price range too. Have her try a 75b or 85 combat or a P01 or a 75 compact. All sweet cheap guns that are ultra reliable and mega accurate. $300 to $600. don't over look the 83 either.

You are doing the right thing. Let her hold em them let her shoot em.

Also, lots and lots of people swear by Makarovs but I have yet to own one. $200 dollars or less(prob less).

Good Luck!

-monkey