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View Full Version : Hunting Etiquette Question - Should I hunt with this guy again? (long)


Fuzzy
September 23, 2002, 12:05 AM
I posted earlier that I was going on my first elk hunt. The trip had great potential but in the end, was a total waste of time, money, and effort.

A friend and I put in for an elk hunt together. We went quail and dove hunting several time last year and talk regularly in the gym. I thought he was a pretty good buddy but I'm thinking I was wrong.

Our tags were good from sunrise Friday through sunset on Monday and our agreement was that whoever got an elk first would 'bird-dog' it for the other guy until he got his. These were 'any elk' tags so we could take cows or bulls.

I wanted to camp but, since he was bringing his son who for some reason is afraid of such things I agreed to split a motel room with them.

We headed up there Thursday morning, taking 2 trucks since neither of ours could hold 2 elk. We get in right after lunch, put our stuff away and then head out to the hunting area, about a 30 minute drive away. We scout around a bit, trying to figure out which part of the area the elk are in now. We find a few promising areas and head back at sundown.

We get up on Friday but his son is pretty sluggish in getting going and we don't get out there until after 7 am. We park and head out to the canyon that looked promising. We glass the canyon for several hours, moving a few times to try to different vantage points. We stay about 1/2 a mile apart and keep in contact via our 2 way radios. At about 10:30 we hadn't seen anything and decide to head back to the trucks for a quick snack and then head to another area. The area is fairly heavily wooded with lots of short fat trees which limit visibility fro a maximum of 80 yards or so. We follow a game trail back and as we head around a corner we see a small heard of elk with two huge bulls in it. They see us at the same time and bolt so we split of to try to stalk them down. We ran into them one more time, my buddy getting a desperation shot off which missed.

We decided to stay in the area and try to hook up with that heard again, keeping near the one water source that we had found. As dark approaches, we are waiting in the field next to the tank, about 150 yards apart. We hear some cows calling off in the field and moved in to investigate. Two cows were calling from my buddy's side of the field. He had a nice 200 yard shot at one but they were both too far for me. He takes a shot and sees it trip, just as the sun is setting. I move in to try to get a shot at the other cow, but she spooks and moves further back. By now the sun is down and hunting ends for the day. We looked for his cow but couldn't find it in the dark. We though that he killed it, but he could have missed and it just tripped while running away.

We came back the next day (Saturday) and found he cow, shot through the heart, and by now very bloated. After taking a few pictures we start to gut her. After he starts I point out to him that he had forgotten to cut around the anus but he just says something and keeps doing what he is doing. When he pulls the guts out, the colon tears apart spilling a lot of feces inside his kill. He does nothing and goes to get his game slide. We are on a private ranch next to the national forest. The rancher allows hunting but doesn't allow vehicles so we get the elk on the slide and start pulling her the 1/4 mile to the boundary. The ground is pretty rough, she's pretty heavy, he not in great cardio-vascular shape, and he didn't bring a deer drag so this whole ordeal takes the better part of the morning. Finally we get her to the trucks and he ask if he can use my pickup to take her to the processor so he won't mess up the inside of his SUV. I agree and he heads off to the processor. By now it's getting pretty hot so I head off to try to figure out where the elk are sleeping. I have no luck and he gets back just as I'm finishing lunch, at about 1:30 pm. By now it's getting close to 80 degrees outside so we decide to wait out the heat and to try to catch that other cow that we had seen the night before near the water tank. We wait for her, but she doesn't show up. Oh well, I still have two more days - or so I thought.

After we get back, he announces to me that he needs to get his son back to Tucson and that he would be leaving first thing in the morning. I try to contain my anger since he's basically ruining my hunt. I keep my cool and don't say anything since I don't want to embarrass him in front of his son. With the temperatures as high as the were, I severely doubted that I could get an elk to the processor before it spoiled by myself. I figure the only way I could salvage my hunt is to get out there in the morning and try to get a kill before he leaves. Then I could get him on the phone and get him to come help.

The next morning (sunday) I get out to the field at sunrise and start checking the places the we'd seen elk. Everything is coming up dry but, at about 7:15, I hear a cow, then I hear a bull bugle in return. This goes back and fourth a few times and I'm able to get a real good idea where that bull is. I move in quietly, not being able to see him through the trees but figuring that I'm about 200 - 300 yards away. Then, I hear a rifle shot and a few seconds later, I hear another. I figure that either the bull or the cow is dead but I keep moving, hoping that I can catch the other. Two minutes later, another rifle shot. I figure that both are either dead or too far away for me to get to in time. I check out a few other areas and for some reason, head back to the hotel to see if he's had a change of heart. I catch him as he's leaving and he invites me to go to the processor with him. I agree to go, mainly to ask the processor if it's worth trying to finish the hunt alone.

We get there and find out due to the heat and the smearing of feces inside his kill, that a portion of the back end of the animal was infected with e-coli and had to be cut out and thrown away. He warns that it might have spread to other areas and that if it's in the bones, the whole animal might be lost. My partner asks for a few steaks to be cut off for him to take home and I ask the processor how quickly a kill must get to him in the heat. He tells me that in the current conditions a kill should sit no more than 2 - 3 hours in the day time before it get to his cooler. He says that he's had guys bring in kills older than that and he's had to send them away because the meat was already rotten.

So my hopes of a good hunt were killed. Dejected, I got back in my truck and headed home.

So, my question is, am I being too harsh by deciding to never hunt with this guy again? I don't think so, I thought that I worked with him on every aspect of this hunt and then he just abandoned me, ruining my hunt. I'm supposed to go on a deer hunt with him in November, but I'm thinking that I'm going to do that one alone and put in with some other hunters next year.

BobR
September 23, 2002, 01:40 AM
I think you already know the answer.

Several things this "gentleman" did made you stop and go hmmmmmmm.

I hope you find another partner for next year, and make sure you cover all aspects of the hunt prior.

bob

dakotasin
September 23, 2002, 06:12 AM
finding a good partner is tough, and once you find a good partner, you'll find you rarely, if ever, big game hunt seperately. i don't think this guy is a good partner.

find somebody else, establish the ground rules, and if you both stick to them, it is much more enjoyable.

1goodshot
September 23, 2002, 07:58 AM
I would have stayed till the end of the hunt, even if I already filled my tag.Being out in the field is whats its all about.

H&H,hunter
September 23, 2002, 08:13 AM
Godd hunting partners are a rare commodity. I refuse to waste time hunting with a moron. You'd be better off by yourself. Next time your hunting in the heat remember these little tips.

Quater your elk right on the carcass don't even gut it. then skin the quarters and prop them up so they have airflow around them. They'll keep for hours maybe even days in 80 degree heat in that configuration. The biggest mistake people make in game processing in warm weather is leaving the hide on. That's what causes the heat to remain in the meat starting the decomp process. Also by quartering the animal due to mass reduction it cools much faster.

Good luck and don't hunt with mister city yuppie anymore. There are alot of good hunters out there. If anyone would have ever told me that there son was affraid of camping it would set off major alarms in my mind. AS in see ya later.

ojibweindian
September 23, 2002, 08:14 AM
The guy is a schmoe. Find someone else to hunt with.

Art Eatman
September 23, 2002, 08:42 AM
There's a last time for everything, and hunting with this guy is one of'em.

Art

Fuzzy
September 23, 2002, 11:23 AM
Glad to hear that you all don't think that I'm overreacting. It's a real shame how things worked out since it was potentially a very good hunt. Thanks on the tips on handeling a kill. Like I've said before, I've mainly been a small game hunter who just last year started getting into larger game. It looks like I need to start looking for other poeple to hunt with.

Betty
September 23, 2002, 12:05 PM
Find someone else to hunt with (like you haven't made your decision already! :D). The son really bogged down the trip and the father was rude in wanting to leave before you had your chance to bag an elk, not to mention he didn't know how to gut one.

I've been bogged down by a person who brought alot of extra gear "just to see if he trek with it". I had to pause every ten minutes so he could readjust his gear and complain. :rolleyes:

HSMITH
September 23, 2002, 12:29 PM
H&H has a great tip for warm weather hunting. The only meat you are losing is the inner tenderloins, all of 2 pounds of meat on a large elk.

I get irritated every time I hear of a game animal wasted, and really pi$$ed when it was from stupidity. That guy is a LOSER!

H&H,hunter
September 23, 2002, 05:59 PM
HS,
And actually, After the animal is quatered and the back straps have been removed it's fairly simple to get to the tenderloins from the top of the gut sack. I do it all the time.

Frohickey
September 23, 2002, 06:18 PM
If I were you, I would never hunt with this guy again.

First, you had to go and get a motel room, which is added expense, because of his son. Did he pay for the motel room?
Second, you told him about the potential of spoiling meat, and he proceeded to do it. I will not hunt with someone that intentionally wastes things.
Third, he abandons you when your hunt is not yet complete, ruining your hunt.

Go and find another partner to go hunting with. Friendship is a two way street, in this trip, it was all one way. That was evident in him using your truck to haul his kill. What was the purpose of bringing his SUV then?

This guy deserves someone else for a hunting partner, hopefully, someone more inconsiderate than he is.

C.R.Sam
September 23, 2002, 08:24 PM
NO

Sam

Fred Hansen
September 23, 2002, 08:31 PM
Ditto.

Fuzzy
September 23, 2002, 09:21 PM
Well, I got some good news. I found a few different guys to put in with for Javelina season. They're real good guys, I've hunted dove with them several times and have always had a great time.

Thanks for letting me know that I'm not over-reacting with this guy. There were a lot of elk in the area and it's a real shame that it didn't turn out well.

yorec
September 23, 2002, 11:22 PM
Good for you Fuzzy - maybe one of them would be interested in undertaking an elk hunt with ya in the future. You've got an area to show them - at least it sounded like agood one.

Good luck.

Westicle
September 23, 2002, 11:50 PM
good going fuzzy, someone who will not stand up to his obligations is no one to have in the field to hunt with.

being a fat lazy bastrad I sympasize with you over having to wait, but he should have been easily able to gut that animal and skid it himself allowing you to continue hunting. sure it would have taken longer but with a 4 day hunt you don't screw around..... sure help him if you got the time, but after the gutting is done he should be able to handle the rest.

labgrade
September 24, 2002, 02:02 AM
Segue off of Fuuzy's thread ....

Got a CO guide-guy who says he can strip the tenderloins out of an elk without ever getting into the gut-sack. I say, BS.

He replies with a "well, not really, but you just stuff yer arm up there & strip 'em out ... ". :rolleyes: Sounds worse than mentioned.

You stated in another thread that, through the top of "the sack," you can strip 'em out.

I'd appreciate some extra info ....

I can think of a way, but haven't tried it yet. No sense wasting time, no?

Art Eatman
September 24, 2002, 08:41 AM
Dunno 'bout elk, but on a whitetail or muley you can separate that muscle with your fingers. Then, just "rip carefully". :) You can separate the backstrap from the ribs in the same manner, with just your fingers. Cut each end; it could be then pulled off the spine, although I prefer to cut it.

Art

TERRY8mm
September 27, 2002, 09:02 PM
LOSE THE LOSER!!

I agree, you can quater, even debone in the field. The meat will cool quickly. Another trick is to carry a very large box of black pepper, and coat the meat with the pepper to keep away insects.

Chuck Dye
September 27, 2002, 09:57 PM
Fuzzy,

All behavior is the result of a cost, risks, benefits analysis. Your initial post suggests the guy cost too much, maybe risked too much (desparation shot? sheesh! Rule 4? Fair chase? I may have to start a seperate thread) and clearly benefited too little. Your subsequent post indicates that you have reached the same conclusion I have. Hunt well.

Runt of the Litter,

I have sacrificed several hunts for partners' kids. In four of five cases the rewards have been hugely greater than filling the tags. I must admit, too, that I spoiled more than my share of hunts as a kid and cannot claim to have rewarded my benefactors nearly as much as I have benefited. I will risk hunting with kids again, partly because of the rewards, partly because I owe and now can only pay forward.


edit: Ouch! How did that button get pushed? Sorry, Runt, what I wrote is true but badly misapplied, not at all responsive to your post.

Rich Lucibella
September 28, 2002, 01:19 PM
LG-
H&H last reported in from the Texas hog fields yesterday. He, Ashley and another hunter had 13 down at last count!!!

Expect him back tomorrow or Monday.


Fuzzy-
Familiarity breeds contempt. I don't care whether your hobby is Skeet, Trap, Fishing, hunting, biking or chasing skirts. My experience indicates that I don't want 90% of the people I run into even breathing my air!

Glad you found more suitable companions.
Rich

BenW
September 28, 2002, 09:12 PM
Familiarity breeds contempt.
I've always found the best way to separate my friends from my aquaintances (or people I never want to go anywhere near again) is to go camping, hunting, or fishing with them for a few days. The whiners and losers make themselves known pretty quickly.

H&H,hunter
October 2, 2002, 04:27 PM
Rich,
Final count 15 all with shot guns.

labgrade,
After quartering your elk and stripping the back straps off simply make a cut next to the spine about where the tenderloins are push the gut material away and extract your loins. Just as in gutting an elk the traditional way be carefull not to cut into any gut. And if you do you've already removed the majority of meat so you won't be loosing much.

Cee-Zed
October 2, 2002, 04:54 PM
I'm not much of a hunter myself (Indiana doesn't allow centerfire rifles). From what I now from my little experience, others' experience, and common sense, this guy didn't do ANYTHING right (and/or according to proper etiquette).

I agree that the "son is afraid to camp" thing was a bad sign. Of course, it was already too late by then...

labgrade
October 4, 2002, 03:43 AM
Thanks, H&H. Kinda makes sense now & wish I'd tried that with our last 'lopes - missed an easier opprtunity rather than trying on elk next .....