Request for comment about gun shop attitudes

[mrstang01]

Took the S.O. shooting at a local indoor range which shall remain nameless for obvious reasons later. She did great with the new Taurus, but even better with my Ruger 22/45. She's a fairly new shooter, but coming along fast.

A mid-30's couple showed up in the lane next to us. He had her shooting a Beretta, I think it was the .40 cal 96, but can't swear to that. He apparently thought he was an expert, but my new shooter was doing a lot better. Comes the wife's turn, she's shaking, using both forefingers to pull trigger, and using the old thumb over the top of the thumb revolver grip.

I winced, expecting her to get bit any second. During a lull, I asked if they'd like to try my .22. "Nah, she's doing fine with the Beretta!", rather huffy. At this point, I hesitated to butt in further and suggest a different grip.

I mentioned what was going on to one of the employees, and asked them how they would handle this situation, to avoid scaring off a potential new shooter. The response was, "We just let them get bit, and then suggest professional instruction".

Is it me, or is this just wrongheaded?

[Justin]

There are probably very few men who would actually listen to any of your suggestions.
Why?
Because most guys seem to think that just because they've seen T2 or Diehard that they can handle a gun when they are really quite inept.

Butting in, no matter how well intentioned, is not going to win you any popularity points.
The gun shop employee probably knew this, that's why he would wait until the guy screwed up before suggesting anything.

Sometimes people just have to make a mistake for themselves before realizing that they don't know it all.

[FPrice]

I am afraid that you have explained the situation perfectfully. Afraid because it is true. Someone who is so convinced that they know what they are doing even though they demonstrate an almost total lack of ability will simply not listen to someone else, especially a stranger. About the only way such a person will listen to advice is from someone they either look up to OR someone they are afraid of.

I think that mrstang01 did about the best that could be done under the circumstances, casually and politely offer some advice, and back off quickly when it is rejected.

I am slightly more concerned about the employee's attitude. I am sure that it is based in experience, but what happens if a serious accident occurs? The employee and the shop could be in for some serious legal problems.

I am concerned about this sort of situation because in about 2 1/2 years I may be in that employee's shoes IF my retirement plans work out. I would like to begin learning now how to handle problem range customers.

[DonP]

I agree with the point of view that most folks don't take well to advice, no matter how well intentioned or or how well presewnted.

BTW, congratulations on a very smart way to try and help them out by offering one of your own guns as a low stress "point of entry" into their situation.

The only exception is when someone is doing something downright dangerous. Then I think it is your responsibility to alert the range master or comment directly.

The sad part is, once she slices her hand on a slide, she won't ever want to shoot again because it's "dangerous".

Don P.

[mrstang01]

Frosty,

That was the thing I was most concerned about, the employee's attitude.

Michael

[Lavan]

"Hey, buddy, let ME show your little lady how to do it."

Make sure he AND she are empty at the time.

;) :D

[Betty]

A lady getting another lady inspired can get the trick done, and the bullheaded man is less likely to feel like his "manhood" is being trampled.

Maybe your S.O. can talk to the other lady directly. "Hey, I'm a new shooter, too. This Ruger here is so easy to shoot - want to try it, too?" If she says yes, than it's easier to wiggle your way in. Your S.O. can also say, "Well, he (pointing to you) teaches me to (helpful tip here)", etc... And now you can jump in.


As for the employee's attitude, that was just plain wrongheaded. If the teacher isn't instructing his student properly, it can be downright dangerous, and that means it's everyone's safety problem. "Getting bit" can also mean pointing the muzzle in an unsafe direction, or shooting herself in the foot.

[ojibweindian]

What else could the employees do? They've probably have attempted something like what you tried, only to be rudely rebuffed for their efforts.

Besides, have you ever argued with a macho know-it-all? A serious pain in the ass. I've done it enough to know that it is not worth the aggravation. Some people just have to learn the hard way, and of course, some seem to really be trying to win a coveted Darwin Award:D

[freeride21a]

i worked at an indoor range for 3 years(would still be but ownership changed and none of us were asked back..stupid family run buisnesses :P), i made it my job to help people enjoy the sport.

i would go out on the range and coach if i saw someone doing something wrong, i would also give a mini lesson to new shooters after i checked them in...gun safety, stance, grip, sights, loading unloading, and what all the buttons knobs and switches on the gun did.

since we had to check all personal firearms and ammo you could see if a bf was gonna let gf shoot his .44mag their first date...and i would usually put a stop to it! .22 is a cheap date! start on .22 then if she felt good enough i would suggest she try it in the end.

lol sometimes you do want someone to get bit..but its usually not a female.

and about know-it-alls...i found the best way to approach them was to make a nice single raged hole in the middle of your target...and he will usually give in when his target looks like a 9mm shotgun went off.

[Ron L]

"We just let them get bit, and then suggest professional instruction".

Bulldicky and horsepucky. Does the "Once bitten twice shy" phrase sound appropriate? She won't be back and then there's another sheeple either afraid of guns or harboring a dislike for them.

[40ozflatfoot]

The store employee did the only thing he could do. He likely saw the husband's attitude, and knew that, if he interfered, he could have invited a lawsuit against the store. I've encountered such people before, and the only way to deal with them is to watch them to see that they don't do anything to make them a hazard to themselves or others, or the property. As long as there is no hazard, the rangemaster is wise to leave them alone. In this case, a mashed thumb or finger is not considered a hazard.

If they do become a hazard to themselves or others, or to the property, then the rangemaster can ask them to leave, and take steps to insure that happens, whatever it takes. Including a 911 call.

I recall two new gunowners (no, I will not mention their gender) that got the attention of the rangemaster when, after putting the first shot through the end of the bench they were using, rudely and loudly rebuffed offers of help from other shooters. They did the same to the rangemaster, who returned to the rangehouse, and called the sheriff's office. Before the deputies arrived, another round was put through the end of the bench, and four more impact points were seen in the ground in progression towards the target. No hits in the paper, or the frame.

Oh yes, I almost forgot. The target was set at 10 feet.

[freeride21a]

at my range we had a waiver(not like they are any good these days) that said no matter what happens it isnt our fault, even if it is our fault it isnt.

we also had the right to kick people out...and we did...there were even a few kicked out before they even got into the range. there is a saying somethign like this "dont open your mouth and remove all doubt(that you are an idiot)" that is not true..some people dont even have to open their mouth...actions can tell a lot about a person. and we were very critical when it came to safety at the range.

[JohnKSa]

Somewhat related.

I watched a couple of geeks get into a heated verbal battle in the software store over which operating system was best.

These guys were perfect strangers and two sentences into the exchange, the big guy was already hostile and condescending. The old guy was just too stupid to know when to quit.

It ended when the big guy called the old guy an idiot and walked off.

This started when one of them overheard a conversation and broke in to offer some unsolicited advice.

People have no concept of courtesy or being polite. I would probably intervene to prevent injury (depending on the situation), but absolutely not for any other reason unless asked.

That's just in general... I would NEVER offer an accompanied woman advice at a gun range. Not unless someone's life were in danger. Certainly not to prevent a minor injury.

I might ask what kind of gun they were shooting (even if I knew) and then judge from the response whether or not to proceed or leave off. You can tell pretty quickly if it's time to get back to shooting or if they will accept help.

I would say that the response you got was a clear clue to back off and leave them alone.

Bottom line?

Experience is a hard teacher, but some will accept no other.

[Hkmp5sd]

A lady getting another lady inspired can get the trick done, and the bullheaded man is less likely to feel like his "manhood" is being trampled.


Luckily, I'm not afflicted with this illness. Growing up and to this day, my mom can still shoot better than me!:D

I have seen this happen at the range, though. Not a whole lot you can do without getting into a fight.

[GhostShooter]

his target looks like a 9mm shotgun went off.

Freeride21a, have you been watching me shoot:D :eek:

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/2M16.gif

[Ed Dixon]

JohnKSa makes a lot of good sense. Till I read that I figured maybe a kicking frenzy or "May I cut in?" was the way to go.