Capabilities of the .303

[HM3]

What can I reasonably expect the .303 cartridge to do? I am thinking of turning the SMLE #1Mk4 that I recently bought into a "pseudo-Scout." Is the rifle capable of hitting man-sized targets out to 500 yds, using the stock peep sights, given the appropriate ability of the person behind the trigger? Additionally, is the .303 capable of taking game up to hogs and black bear at ranges not exceeding 250 yards?

Thanks for your answers!

[Long Path]

As far as your questions go: Yes. Stick with the 180 grain loadings.

I think that you'll find, though, this is going to be quite a little project. I suppose you'll be sticking it in a RamLine or the like stock. ($100) Then there's the B-Square scope mount ($75?), and the intermediate eye-relief scope ($150). Then the cut-down and crowning of the barrel ($30). Just realize that your $120 rifle will be a $600 rifle when you're through, that no one will give you more than $250 for. Still and all, if it fills the need you seek, why not?

It will be very useful to hunt with, but these setups are often difficult to get to shoot better than 1.75 MOA. That, of course, is more than acceptable accuracy for anything you've detailed: 5" at 250 or 10" at 500 is typically better than most riflemen can shoot. It's also such a handy action. As far as hitting man-sized targets at 500 goes, a bandolier of .303 loaded in stripper clips and a SMLE with a full magazine is a setup that puts you far better armed for battle than most would believe; it's one of the purer battle rifles out there.

Be advised that the points blank change when you cut the barrel down and change the sight radius.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited July 23, 1999).]

[Destructo6]

Yeah, I wouldn't sporterize mine much either. Finding and installing a scope mount that wouldn't get in the way of using stripper clips would be one of the few mods I'd like to do to my own. Maybe doing a better job of free-floating the barrel, too.

[HM3]

Hi Long Path and Destructo66!

Thanks for reassuring me on the capabilities of the .303 cartridge. As far as modifications go, I don't need to have the muzzle re-crowned as it has no detectable surface imperfections and the bore is in an excellent, shiny condition. I've got a Simmons ATV 4.5-14X50 scope that I would like to mount on the receiver, without driling and tapping, if possible; can it be done?

The stock has already been sporterized and looks to be in good condition, though I'm not sure if the forearm has been properly inletted, and I'm pretty sure that the action has not been bedded. I was thinking of removing the stock and installing a synthetic one that retails for apporximately $69.95. Not to enhance accuracy, but for the purpose of durability. 2 to 3 MOA is acceptable for me.

What I'm really shooting for here is a general, inexpensive, and durable all purpose survival weapon. Have any suggestions as to how this can be accomplished?

[bushmaster]

You've already got one in your hands now. Why change anything on it at all? The scope will be more fragile than iron sights would be, the #4mk2 had one of the best iron sight setups(IMO) ever, clip fed, from strippers, great cartridge, What else could you ask for?

I have one of the Gibbs tanker versions(#4 cut to 20 inches) and it fit the bill perfectly once I adjusted the sights to meet the new trajectory(less velocity). I can hit anything I can see, and I wouldn't change a thing.

[Robert Foote]

I have put a #4 Mk. 1 into an Advanced Techologies 'zytel' synthetic stock, cut and crowned the barrel back to the front sight myself, and have less than $150 in it. Most of my difficulties came from learning how to reload .303 and Lee collet dies took care of that. I picked up some very good 1970s Greek boxer primed, n/c ammo in stripper clips and bandoleers, and all in all I have a pretty good utility rifle--probably more useful and practical than a lot of others. The issue sights are excellent, and I would have no hesitation in hunting with it or defending myself with it. (It seems to have done well for 100 years in Afghanistan...)

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[HM3]

Well, got the SMLE out of layaway and, on closer inspection, I've decided to pretty much leave well enough alone! About the only thing that I MIGHT consider is putting on a synthetic stock. To be honest though, the person who sporterized the rifle did a pretty good job, and therefore I'm not in a hurry.

Thanks for the info and advice, guys! BTW, where do you get the Greek surplus .303 ammo that is supposed to be so good?

[Long Path]

Ah! You're not "pseudo-Scout"-ing it, you're just further sporterizing it.

(Scouts are short, light and handy, short action, and with intermediate-mounted [forward of the action] scopes. Weight is under 7 lbs, with good sling [pref. Ching Sling]. A SMLE is really a pretty good platform for a scout, but the weight is an issue.)

I wouldn't put a standard scope on it, either. One of the beauties of the SMLE is its ability to rapidly reload with strippers. [I never have had a stripper offer to reload my Enfield, but you never can tell when these things might happen! :) ]

Contact B-Square about a mount that will sit an intermediate eye-relief scope forward of the action. If there's a no-gunsmith mount that will put your scope out of the way without setting it up high and to the side, I don't know of one.


I've gotta go with Bushmaster on this one-- what are you REALLY going to improve with the 'scope? You make it MUCH more fragile, almost insignificantly more accurate, much more expensive, and it's already one of the great battle-rifles of all time. I have also, as a matter of course, taken mine hunting many times, without feeling like I was poorly outfitted.

As to the durability factor goes, you might want to shoot it some, to see how it does, before you go changing stocks. That old wood was pretty durable. You may find the Zytel is lighter, though. And for one that's been sporterized anyway, I have to admit that the black Zytel usually looks better than the carved-on former military stocks. Most people find the 24" barrel a bit ungainly-looking on the rifle without the full-length foreend on it, but it shoots great with the full barrel, and you won't have to worry so much about recalibrating your sights. (BTW, when you see a sight-adjustment tool for this, BUY IT! They're relatively cheap, and cheaply made, too, but when you need one, nothing else seems to do the job.) Many people cut and recrown just to get the package a bit more handy. But I didn't with my old sporter Smelly, nor with my sporter Springfield-- I like the lessened muzzle blast.

Good luck.

[HM3]

Long Path, I will heed the words of wisdom from both you and Bushmaster. More than likely, any attempt by me to "improve" on things is going to be disasterous!

I really need to take the rifle to the range and see how well I can shoot with it before anything wlse is done. I just need to be patient, and objective, about what is really needed, and what is mere window dressing.

[Long Path]

Good idea, because a penny saved is a penny put toward your next rifle!

[bushmaster]

Or more ammo! Century Arms has good prices on surplus .303. 1-800-999-4899, or their site at www.centuryarms.com, (http://www.centuryarms.com,) hope this helps.

[Jaeger]

Well, I have a #4Mk1 and a Jungle Carbine in stock form and I love them. I have had some experience with BSquare's receiver mount for these rifles and I didn't like it. Too loose. The cheap scope mount (usually advertised with the zytel stock) actually works quite well. (with a little lock tite!) The mount from S&K also looks good but is much more expensive. I have hunted with the Jungle Carbine set up with a zytel stock, the cheap, no gunsmithing scope mount, and a 2.5X Redfield scope and it works very well. It is an excellant brush gun. I have also hunted with it in stock form and it works great that way too.

I am in the process of building a scout rifle off of a previously sporterized (not by me!) Jungle Carbine. I am using a Ram Line stock (came with the gun) and an Ashley scout scope mount. The smith is replacing the barrel (original shot out by corrosive ammo) with a surplus 2 groove from Springfield Sporters ($20 and in excellant condition) and will try to clean up the trigger a little bit. The action cover loop just forward of the magazine is being replaced with a sling swivel. The Leupold Scout Scope will be mounted with Warne Maxima Steel QD rings. After it's all said and done the package will probably cost me about $650. I would never be able to recover this in a resale, but I have no intention of selling it!! When it's done I'll post the results. (hopefully next month!) To me, this will be the ideal rifle. A true rifleman's rifle.

There is a new website dedicated to the 303 and contains tons of good info including reloading data. I don't have the address right now but if you email me I will get it to you ASAP. Most of the big manufacturers are introducing match loadings for the 303 this year. You can purchase a 174 gr. Sierra HPBT match bullet now.

The 303 is a great cartridge and the Enfield is a superior action for the true rifleman.

[Long Path]

Not only that, Jaeger, but Sierra makes their excellent Pro Hunter spitzer bullet in .303, now!

I hunted some with Dad's sporterized (but not by him!) #5, and it's a dream. Only problem is that the barrel's been badly shot-out. When clean, it will, however, print about 4 MOA, which is good enough that I actually carried it around for a day on my last elk hunt in the black timber. Yeah, I know: .303 is getting on the thin side for elk, but at <100 yards, what's that bull really going to care that it's only a .303? He just got punched in the shoulder with 180g bullet at about 2350 fps. Plenty.

Gimme more info on the 2-groove for $20. Where?

And what, Jaeger, are you doing about the scope blocking the feeding of stripper clips? Does it? If so, I must concede that if you can't do it with ten round of .303, it probably is time to change tactics... :)

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited July 25, 1999).]

[Jaeger]

The barrels are from Springfield Sporters. (Penn Run, PA) They don't have a web site. They usually run ads in Shotgun News. They are a great source for old rifles and parts.

The Ashley scout scope mount is a steel ring that fits over the barrel, around the chamber area. It is held in place with set screws and accraglass bedding compound. It has a standard weaver type rail that then extends over a portion of the barrel. You must use a low power, long eye relief scope with this type of mount. It does not impede the action in any way. Stripper clips can be used. Same type of setup as the Styer Scout rifle. I just got to play with the Styer a few days ago and it is incredible. Target aquisition with this type of scope set up is lightning fast!! Combine this scope setup (which is a quick detatch system when using the Warne rings) with all of the attributes that make the Enfield such a superior battle rifle and you can understand why I am so excited!! I've had this rifle idea rattling around in my head for the past 9 years (?). I hope it meets my expectations. I don't expect the Styer's level of accuracy but 1 1/2 to 2 moa will be fine with me. I expect extreme range to be 500 yds.

[EMDII]

Reliable reports indicate the .303 easily takes bull moose in Canada. I have two Canadian friends who swear the .303 is the soul-father of the 30-06!

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[Long Path]

EDMII: I have an aquaintence with a story about killing power in Canada: He was hunting moose up in Sasquatchawan, and looked at his Native American guide's rifle. "Will that .30-30 Marlin kill a big moose?" he inquired.

"I dunno," came the answer. "It's killed 54 of them, but it might not kill any more..."

Good lesson on making do with what you've got...!

Jaeger: Your pseudo-scout sounds exactly like what I'm interested in! I've got some loads at home that work very well in shorter barrels, if you'd like... My friend Steve Camp (sometimes on this site) developed them for his .303 Scout. They work well in the #5.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited July 26, 1999).]

[Jaeger]

I'd like to see them Longhunter.

[Gino]

Hey HM3,

You've got to start looking for the Greek surplus 303 right away. It really is the best stuff out there. I got some about two months ago from Burns Bros (check shotgun news). FYI, this stuff has HXP on the headstamp. It comes in 48 round boxes with HXP marked on it somewhere on the box. It also has HXP on the headstamp. Some of this has greek writing on the box, and some has english writing. Look for the HXP, that's the key! Boy, does this stuff shoot well. Save your money and only get the good stuff... :)

[Ivan8883]

A elephant hunter in Africa in the old days named Bell used to kill elephants with a 303 rifle. He would, however, get preety close to them. It was a shame that these noble beast were ever hunted ,but Kilomanjero Bell was very successful at it.

[Jaeger]

Are you sure about that? I thought he used a 7mm Mauser.

[Ivan8883]

The 303 caliber sticks in my mind as the caliber K. Bell used on the poor elephants. I cant remember the book where i read it though.

[Prichard]

n

[This message has been edited by Prichard (edited February 07, 2000).]