Rust pitting in rifle bore

[S.F.S]

I just purchased a used Ruger varmint rifle .223 with a SS heavy barrel and was cleaning it up and after I was done I noticed two very minute small pitts of what looks to be rust the only way its noticed is with a bore light otherwise you cant notice it.
Other than that the rifle is in excellent condition the rifleing is still sharp and all, not worn.
I cleaned the barrel up with Hoppe's #9 and a brass brush and left a light film of G96 gun oil in the bore.
I will be shooting it tomorrow for the first time to see how she does. (But I'm new to rifles so it will probably do better then I can right now.) :D
What do you all recommend I do or should I just leave it alone and always keep a film of oil in the barrel when not in use, to prevent it from getting worse?

Thanks..
Scott

[S.F.S]

There is no rust just 2 very small pitts near the muzzle.
What should I do?

[goosegunner]

My mauser have 2 or 3 marks similar to those you tell about, and I just leave them alone. They have no noticeable effect on my guns performance. (But I don't shoot that good, anyway the rifle shoots better than me). When I first spotted it I consulted a gunsmith, and he told me not to bother.

If the pittings are close to the mussle you could ask a gunsmith to cut off a few inches of your barrel.

[Art Eatman]

At this stage of your learning curve, I wouldn't give it another moment's thought. Just do a bit of normal cleaning after you're done shooting. The proverbial thin film of oil will be adequate against rust...

Is your rifle based on the 77 Mk II action? Is the trigger adjustable, or fixed? The fixed trigger is too stiff "as is"; mine was also sorta draggy. I replaced it with a Timney.

If you don't get groups inside an inch--and it oughta shoot inside 1/2" at 100 yards--you might do some "Search" here about bedding the forearm.

Go shoot. Report back. :)

Art

[S.F.S]

Thanks Guys,
Its shooting 5 shot groups a hair bigger than the size of a quarter (part of the bullet hole was seen from the side of the quarter) at a 100 yds with cheap Winchester ammo and a cheap 6 power scope that a friend had laying around.

Art,
Its the KM77VT-MKII Its their Varmint Model. It has the original two stage pull Target trigger and it breaks just under 3lbs its a sweet crisp and light trigger. Also the barrel is completly free floated as their Varmint Model is out of the factory.

I dont think it did to bad considering Im fairly new to rifles and all.

[Art Eatman]

6X will let you get good, tight groups, but ya gotta work at uniformity in keeping the crosshairs on the "just so" spot on the target. I have an old Leupold Vari-X II 3X9 on mine. 9X is about minimum for precision paper, but more than adequate for varmints within the common .223 ranges.

:), Art

[S.F.S]

Art,
I finished cleaning her up a little while ago and made sure I kept a thin film of G96 Gun Treatment in the bore.
After looking at those pitts more closely they dont seem to have any rust around or under them. (I believe I caught it in time). I did notice after I fired a few rounds at the range you don't even see them until the barrels cleaned again, Its only about the size of the head of a toothpick (one pitt right next to the other) thats probably why I didn't notice it when I bought it since the barrel was a little dirty.
I can definatly see another Ruger rifle in my future. I also like the controlled feed over push feed, I had the push feed style action misfeed on occasion, especially a Savage that I owned which I only had about 2 weeks before selling it, never even shot it.

Im thinking of putting a 4X12X40 Swift with an adjustable objective on it or do you think Im better off staying with a 3X9X40?
Im mainly just gonna be paper punching right now for accuracy and fun then possibly do some varmint hunting next year. My friends gonna need this scope for his new gun, so I will probably get something within a month

I was always under the impression that any rust, pitts or anything of that nature inside the bore would have a serious effect on the accuracy of the rifle, isn't that true, or not always?

Scott

[Art Eatman]

The Swift isn't a bad scope. I traded into a rifle with one; not quite as bright as a Leupold, but no problem for shooting other than at dawn or dusk. I find the AO to be a Good Thing.

As far as protecting against rust, I've never had a problem with sewing-machine oil, motor oil, 3-In-1, whatever. And itty-bitty pits like you describe just aren't worth bothering with. Forget 'em.

A real pitting problem is when they are both deep and numerous.

Unless I shoot more than "testing", which typically is no more than three or four three-shot groups, I just wipe the rifle with a patch sprayed with WD-40. I'll run a WD-40 patch through the barrel, and follow with a patch lightly sprayed with some sort of gun oil.

Haven't lost a barrel in 52 years, now. :)

A lengthy session of several boxes or a hundred or more rounds: That's a whole 'nother deal, as far as cleaning.

Art

[S.F.S]

Art,
So if I understand you correctly a few minor pitts or scratches inside a barrel is not a problem unless its deep with heavy amounts of rust visable, am I correct?

If thats the case I need to keep that in mind cause I put alot of rifles back on the rack that were priced nicely cause they had some sought of imperfection in the bore like a few scratches or something of that nature, but then again I have been told Im a nit-pickin perfectionist when its comes to guns :p

Scott

P.S. WD-40 on guns I thought that was a no-no :eek:

[Tom A]

There's an interesting article in a recent edition of Precision Shooting discussing the metallurgy of stainless barrels in great detail. Of interest to you is the conclusion that near-muzzle pitting is just something that can happen to stainless steel barrels.


"Thus as a very hot bullet jacket passes over a sulfide grain it heats a very thin
layer of that grain above its decomposition temperature (metal sulfides as a class show poor
thermal stability) and those atoms are swept off, causing a pit to grow. Furthermore, bullets
having long bore-diameter shanks, like the 140-142-grain ones used in these 6.5mm bores, will
have their jackets in contact with any point in the bore longer than a short-shank bullet. So
this jacket-heating and pit-growth effect will be at a maximum with the long bullets and
barrels used by long-range shooters. Short-range bench rest shooters using 21"-22" barrels
and short bullets should see much less (or no) near-muzzle pitting in a #416 barrel containing
such overly large MnS grains. Also, transfer of heat from the bullet jacket to MnS inclusions will
only occur in a clean bore; a layer of fouling will inhibit or prevent sulfide-grain
decomposition. Lastly, there may be many barrels of such poor steel in use by unsuspecting
shooters."


Here's a link to the article:

http://www.precisionshooting.com/dec01.html

See the section entitled "NEAR-MUZZLE PITTING OF #416 STEEL.".

[Art Eatman]

Thanx, Tom A; that's a new one on me.

S.F.S., there are a lot of rifles out there with near-perfect bores. Here again, "purpose" controls. If you really need no more than two MOA accuracy, I doubt that a light scratch or very slight pitting will hurt, and the rifle might actually shoot better than this worst-case. For instance, if you're gonna sit in a deer blind and the probable shot is 50 to 100 yards, why worry? I'm assuming the price reflects the condition.

All in all, though, stay picky. The barrel is the heart of quality, in any rifle.

Art

[S.F.S]

Tom,
But being this rifle is a .223 wouldn't that be considered a short bullet and as the article says have no pitting or nearly none? Also what does MnS stand for in the article? Its strange though, as the aricle states as soon as the bore is fouled you dont even notice it. Thats the case with this one also.

So if you do encounter pitting what is one to do? Just forget about it? Or at least in this case since the rifle shoots well.
Is this something thats gonna get progressivly worse over time and need to be rebarreled?

Thanks,
Scott

[Art Eatman]

MnS = Manganese Sulfide.

IMO, the .223 is a medium-capacity varmint cartridge. The 50- or 52-grain bullets are about optimum for coyote-sized critters and smaller, out to around 300 yards maximum. Of course, I'm first and foremost a hunter.

These bullets are in the category of "short". From your description of your barrel's pits, you're in the realm of "nearly none". They are so small that any residue fills them and covers them. I imagine the problem accentuates with the longer 69-grain bullets and such which are used in long-range target-shooting.

All rifle barrels eventually burn out. It may be only just above 1,000 rounds for a very-hot magnum to 4,000 or even more for low capacity cartridges. First comes erosion of the throat just in front of the chamber; it lengthens as more rounds are fired. At some point the accuracy degrades enough that either the barrel is set back and rechambered, or it is replaced. Sorta like rings and bearings in a car's engine; how hard you drive it determines how soon you need a rebuild.

Art

[ankara36]

I had a strange rust problem this weekend with my Yugo SKS. I had cleaned and stored the rifle in my safe about 3 weeks ago. I make it a habit to run an oily patch down the barrel of any rifle that I store, and give it a quick dry patch before taking it to the range. However, the Yugo has a grenade launcher on the end that is larger than the bore. I had done such a good job cleaning the carbon out of the launcher part, that it left metal exposed that started to develop surface rust. The rust moved along the surface of the metal and left small rust flecks on the first few inches of the bore. They were actually sticking to the bore surface like dust particles rather than embedded in the metal.

I cursed myself for not oiling the inside of the launcher. I opened the gas tube and looked in there - no rust. Nor was there any rust down towards the breech end of the rifle. My guess is that one oily patch through the barrel does not deposit sufficient oil when it gets to the muzzle.

After cleaning the rifle and launcher again I took a shotgun patch, saturated it with oil, and stuffed it into the muzzle end. We'll see if the spots come back.

[BigG]

I wouldn't think it would be a rust pit in a stainless steel bbl. Sounds more like stress that popped out the metal.

If you are shooting a rifle (like an old army surplus rifle) with surplus ammo you need to wash it out with water after shooting. Water is the only thing that will neutralize salts from corrosive ammunition primers.

Per Hatcher, the metal will corrode and pit right under a film of oil unless first washed with water - or a bore cleaner that contains a high % of H2O. I use water as it's free. Hot is best because it dries itself.

That's why so many army surplus rifles have pitted bores, they didn't wash them out with water. Regular bore cleaner will not cut corrosive primer residue.

On a commercial rifle it's very rare to have marks or pits in the bbl. Unless you are talking about microscopic tool marks in the grooves where they were cut. The lands ought to look like a mirror and usually do. There should certainly be no scratches, which indicate abuse! :eek:

I would steer clear of a commercial rifle with any marks in the bore, all things being equal.

[ankara36]

From everything I've read on cleaning after using Milsurp ammo, water alone will not neutralize the salts, though it may dilute them. Most recommend hot, soapy water. The other thing that works well is a bore cleaner that has ammonia, such as some copper fouling solvents. Or use window cleaner that has ammonia. That is what I have used in the past. Preferably as soon as you are done firing the gun, but it can be done later if time doesn't permit. Any rusted bore stories I have heard were the result of minimal to no cleaning, or the use of a bore cleaner that only handles carbon fouling. In the case of the Yugo SKS rifles, some may have nice bores but the gas tube is rusted solid because nobody ever bothered to open that up and clean it when they cleaned the rest of the rifle.

[S.F.S]

You quoted,
"From your description of your barrel's pits, you're in the realm of "nearly none".

What do you mean by nearly none?

I will admit they are small cause you cant really see them after you have a film of oil or any fouling in the barrel.
But I don't want it to get worse so how do I prevent from doing so?
Do you think I should try a steel
brush or some JB bore compound or some other abrasive cleaner to try and clean it up?
Scott

[C.R.Sam]

NO steel brush.
No abrasive bore cleaner.

To get the little pits out, you would have to remove barrel metal from around them till the amount removed would equal the depth of the pits. That would likely destroy the accuracy you have.

Don't do that. Just live with them.....probably zero effect on accuracy.

Sam

[Dave R]

I you are getting 5-shot, quarter-sized groups at 100 yds., those pits are not affecting your accuracy.

[hps1]

SFS, as many others have stated, don't sweat the small pits. Your rifle's accuracy is obviously not affected w/quarter sized groups @ 100 yds.

A pitted barrel requires a little more care in cleaning than a mirror smooth bore to prevent further damage. I purchased a lend- leased British Garand rifle by mail order in 1960. It had very light pitting in the grooves full length of the barrel. The lands were perfect for whatever reason?? The rifle shot (and still shoots) moa groups after accurizing BUT, when I shoot it, I clean it thoroughly, and two or three days later I CHECK IT AGAIN to be sure all fouling was removed from the pits. Once in a while the second cleaning will turn up some crud I missed the first time.

Hey, Art, you could run vinegar thru your barrels out there in the desert and they wouldn't rust, couldn't you? ;) :D

Regards,
hps

[Art Eatman]

Dunno as I'd wanna use vinegar, but at least I don't have the hoomadiddy problem like down here at my wife's place in Jawgia. I walked out of the house this morning and nearly drowned. Some ducks were swimming by, five feet off the ground! Now, that's humid!

:), Art

[C.R.Sam]

Gawgia quackers ?

Sam

[hps1]

Art/C R Sam:

First joker doesn't have a chance around here, does he? LOL

Regards,
hps

[S.F.S]

Thanks Guys for all the input..
Im just not gonna let it bother me, the rifle is shooting to good for it to be affected by the pits especially with me still new to rifle shooting and it shooting this well...

Thanks Again.

Scott

[Art Eatman]

hps1, Sam does pretty good. 'Course, he's one state too far north; "Crackers" live down in Florida. But, when it gets a bit dewy in Aridzony, folks tend to go a little crackers.

Art

[C.R.Sam]

Seems to me that when I was swimmin in Florida, twas the Georgians that were referred to as "crackers".

Cept for the engineers with hairy ears. :D

Sam..........darn, that was half a century ago.

[hps1]

C R Sam:
Don't time fly when you're havin fun, tho?!!!;)

Regards,
hps